Here Today... Gone To Hell!

i dont know everyone, the more i think of it im not sure how legitimate richard fortus is being in this band.

i know he was a session player for NSYNC, he had to pay the bills blah blah blah blah blah but i think people are forgetting what GNR use to be.

these 5 crazy,talented, insane individuals collectively changing the face of music.


i think the new band is cool for CD but playing that old material they had nothing to do with sometimes leaves a bad taste in my mouth still.

I wish axl wouldve stuck with Robin and Bucket or a replacement for bucket.

fortus is a great guitarist but what are people gonna think when GNR are listed as

W axl Rose
former replacement tommy stinson
former primus brain
former NIN robin finck
former NSYNC guitarist richard fortus

i dont know about that!

29th February 2005.  : ok:

december 2005 ?:peace: ?:rofl:

february is starting to look out of the loop.

wtf happened to this thread ???  ;D ;D ;D

sorry there is alread an odds of 2005 thread so i saved my thread being merged and changed it

if his contributions to CD are good, no1 will be saying naything

These guys havnt been in bigtime bands excpet Tommy. And Bucket has had a great solo career.

Iy you wanna make the argument in terms of them playing the old material and what the old guys were about...you have a case, but other than that it dont really matter...

plus he has a great stage presence

That's not nice.  >:(

As for Richard? OF COURSE HE FUCKING IS.

Slash played with that cunt Michael Jackson, doesn't make him any less rockin'.

There's no members in GN'R, only employees! When will you understand?

Merck and Axl dresses them all up so they'll look different. Just like a boy band!

 :hihi:



/jarmo

If you ask me richard fortus is the only 'real' musician.
Finck is too gothic and indus and i don't think this is the style of this band, guns n roses is rock and roll, not silly gothic marilyn manson style.

He is a legit member to me who cares if has recorded with NSYNC he reminds me of Izzy so much and I like his look its very cool Richard is becoming one of my new fav members of GN'R, he knows how to rock, Rock on Richard ?:beer:

nsync or not nsync I don't care. didn't Slash play for blackstreet another boys band of the mid 90's? who cares? As soon as you have talent I don't see where the problem is. Richard is by far my favourite "new" band member and the best new guitar player of GN'R. I won't repeat what I already said 10 times. That guy is a class guitar player. And If you want my opinion, I think I even prefer Nsync to NIN or any other gothic/indus stuff.

Yes, this reminds me of something...
So how the fuck do I dream at night?
With the memories of a borrowed death, the guilty tide
Filth pig, filth pig
He sleeps with both eyes open
Filth pig, filth pig
He sleeps all right because he?s a
Filth pig

He isn't any less legit than the other members. Personally, I like his style of playing more than Finck and Buckethead.

I guess whoever axl hires into the band is a "legit" member .. as long as they sign on the dotted line and collect a paycheck. It is afterall axl's band now.  :peace:

If you watch Fortus on stage with GNR, that is all the convincing I needed that he is a legit gunner.

No one is legit to me until the day they are presented as the band with an album.., The entire band is subject to change whenever axl wants..

Hes fine with me..

I love it how you're called Indus

 8)

That's exactly what turns me off about him, a third guitarist who doesn't have 1 memorable riff on his resume striking every pose known. ?Earn your stripes then go Angus Young on me, until then, calm the fuck down.

On topic, if he's on the payroll he's a legit member.

Fortus was also in Love Spit Love, Psychadelic Furs, Ben Folds Five, and? Gravity Kills? too, so enough with this n suck crap. He played on one of their albums big deal. Slash played with black street or do some of you forget that?

But slash is a proven , bonafide guitar god , he can play with whoever he pleases. Richard hasnt even come close to setting his status within the guitar world to that of Mr.Slash.  Personally , I dont see why this thread has diverted to talk of slash anyways but ....   ???

Yup. Slash is a living legend thats for sure. Mucho praise to the top hatted one because without him none of us would be at HTGTH.  :peace:

Slash also played with Jacko also. And the point is people are bashing Fortus for playing with N suck, where as slash has played with bands just as bad.  Fortus is a great guitar player and he even wrote for the new album. He added the ending solo to the blues which made the song even better.

yeah but isnt it sort of hypocritical for Axl to get so pissed at Slash for playing with micheal jackson and getting mad over the bands side projects when all the new band seems to do is constantly focus on their solo/sideprojects.

That is because Axl most likely told the new band members they can do what ever they want until the album drops and they tour.

YOUR SAYIN' THIS!!??

are you serious dude, arnt you a Robin fan!!!

I agree that from what I've seen of the guy playing live he seems like a fairly adept guitar player who can handle chords , lead and slide .. he also added that nice sustaining feedback to madagascar which I like. However my only point is that Fortus is certainly not the established LEGEND that Slash is. I'm sure nobody will argue that point and be serious about it.

maybe years down the road fortus will too icarve quite a name for himself with his guitar playing , but it'll be hard to catch slash in terms of MAJOR riffs and solos .. like top riffs and solos of all time that he'll get under his belt.

Slash has kinda afforded himself the luxury of taking on these silly side projects/sessions and walk away unscathed ... most werent really that bad. I mean jacko right now has himself in a pretty bad spot but that still doesnt take away from the fact that he was the king of pop at one time with some of the biggest selling albums of alltime.

Pretty much comparable to the guys in GNR now playing with axl rose , they all hated AFD and GNR in general , so why join the band? cause you cant deny that axl at one time was one of the biggest forces in rock music.

Personally I'm not dissing fortus for playing sessions on n sync albums , the guy probably just wanted to collect a check and/or royalites and feed/clothe himself ya know?

People need to get over the fact that this new band obviously arent the 5 street thugs from the gutter that raped and pillaged the sunset street on their way to recording the greatest rock album of all time , one AFD. Axl is a whole different guy then what he was back then , of course he's gunna surround himself with different types of players these days.

Fortus is cool .. I'm sure he'll contribute to the album in a nice way , I have more confidence in his guitar playing ability then I do of that of mr.finck.

again , thats just my opinion

I've read quotes from tommy where he says he hated it and thought it was a joke and him and axl had talked about that openly.



Hmmm , I see quite a few people who still compare the new band to the old band. I mean isnt this thread all ABOUT fortus not being a legit member cause he was a session player for nysnc and that wasnt something the old band would do? As for me telling anyone this more then once here .. I think you have me confused with someone else as I rarely post here and most certainly havent told anyone that they need to accept the new band for who they are , her at htgth before.  ::)

man fuck off with the nsync shit, how about you mention Love Split Love or Furs dude, why's it gotta be about nsync, find another way to pick on him mate!!!

yes they did, they got Matt, then Gilby, n' so fuckin' forth!!

we know you think its ok for Slash to jam with black street just 'cause he's the man, but Richard jammed with nsync n' he's not the man, so he's a pussy hey!! ::)

be fare dude, n' give it up, Richard is in Gunners now n' Slash isnt
.

Saul I am just curious, yes fortus is not an established Legend like slash but neither is buckthead, and we all know how much you love BH. ?BH was pretty much an unknown until he joined guns n roses and was basically underground but that doesn?t change the fact how amazing BH is at playing the guitar. ?You don?t have to be an established legend to be a great guitar player. There are tons of unknown guitar players that are better than slash but just because they are not know does not mean they are not a great guitar player. ?

As for Tommy and the new band hating gnr back in the day well guess what slash hated STP and Weiland back in the day and always bashed them calling them wannabes but now Scott is his lead singer. So what about that?

As for Robin Finck, you have never given him a fair shake, and Robin is a great guitar player, people love to bash his playing but his intro to SCOM which people say he butchers sounds just like slash. ?Robin just bends notes too far sometimes but that is his style. Like I tell people get the live NIN album and you will see how great robin is. ?If robin was such a crappy guitarist you really think two of the best rock stars in the world (Axl and Trent) would want him for their guitar player?

very nice!! :yes:

I wish everyone on all of these boards would take the time out and read that statement

Excellent point....

Until Cd gets released we will not know how good new gnr really are. We can speculate,praise and bash. Until we hear the first to last song on that album we wont fully know. It could be a coming out party for a lot of the members in the band and they can get some mainstream reconigntion for their work. Or they could be diregarded because it iwll suck...time will eventually tell on that....

No its not, and its a point that you yourself seemed to shoot down when you deemed Dave Kushner "nothing special."  Because if he was nothing special, do you think Slash (or Dave Navarro) would really want him as his guitar player?

Excellent point, right?  : ok:

What other major star wanted Kushner in their band the status of Axl or Trent or even slash?

The answer is NONE. Navarro is not on the same? level as trent or an Axl. You will never hear anyone way say Navarro is one of the best guitarist in the world or ever.

Also Robin played in the cirque du soliel, if he sucked, again would they have wanted him?
BTW Robin is BETTER than Kushner.

Slash and Dave Navvaro are "much easier to work with" than the likes of Axl and Trent. Lets not compare 2 guitar players, 1 great, 1 overated with two "ego maniacs"....

The members in Gnr have now been in the band for over 5 yrs. They are great guys who represent well. How iwll the music sound. Cant tell you. But what I can tell you is that if they were garbage they would have already been out the door..faster than that lead singer that Slash tried out for his band VR.

 :confused:

Oh, so there has to be two to prove your "point?" :confused: ?So somehow the principle (which would be Player X must be great if theyre playing with Singer Y) changes with the number of people involved? ?How typically irrational.


 ???

Kind of like how Ive never seen Trent Reznor called the best singer in the world?

And Navarro is recognized as a great guitarist...in fact, one singer in particular seems to really admire his work... : ok: ?


 :hihi:

A fitting conclusion to a post full of inane weaving and straw-grasping. ?Well done. ?:beer:

Booker its funny, I edited my post at 6:57 and you posted at 7:03 nice try there bud, but try again. I? am just curious how that can be so? Someone even posted after my edit.? It just goes to show you, you know you are losing this argument and have to do silly stuff like this.? ::)

And Trent is known as one of the best frontman in the world sorry to break it to? you Booker. You just need to broaden your horizons.?

As for Navarro playing with? Axl. All Navarro did on oh my god was the solo and that was pretty much it. You do know that right?

???

So first the point is about working with the "two best rock stars," now its the two most difficult-to-work-with rock stars? ?Hmmm...A "point" that changes this wantonly is certainly not an excellent one.

 
First, whats with all of the quotation marks? ?Are you facetiously referring to them as ego maniacs (consequetially squashing the point)? ?And if youre not, and you really think theyre ego maniacs, then why put it in quotation?

Second, Ive already addressed your seemingly ever-changing point in the beginning of this post. ?And the both of you are getting really subjective, calling Trent Reznor one of the two best rock stars in the world and Dave Navarro overrated. ?But its all a testament to how silly this "excellent" point is to begin with. ?

And Dave Navarro cant be overrated...Axl chose him to play with GNR, and Axl only chooses the best.

Axl also pushed for Paul Tobias, and we all know hes one of the greats.


 :hihi:

So childish...

Hey, hopefully one day youll actually have material to base that asssertion on.

Booker robin plays on the live nin album, i am basing it on that. OH what I cannot do that?
Its ok tho, because once the album comes out people like you won't have that little wise ass remarks about not having an album to base it on.  I know that once it does come out no matter how good it is, you will have an excuse, but its ok we all have come to expect that by now.

No, the point is that comparing guitar players and lead singers and who each allow into the band is not a good comparison.

What with all the faces ??? ::) :no: : ok: :beer:


Even Axl makes mistakes....
No he didnt....

Booker, do you even know your gnr history or facts? Paul was there to help Axl put back the pieces to guns n roses and be a fill in til they found a new guitiarist.  When they were recording SFTD they needed a player, slash and duff didnt try to bring anyone in so slash got Paul to help out, he was there until axl found a suitalbe replacement, he did with Fortus. What is so hard to understand about that. Read Axls interview when they first got Fortus. What did Axl say?

Again about Trent, i can tell you are very narrow minded when it comes to music, but Trent is a huge star, I guess you think Maynard of Tool is not one of the best either right?

Thanks Booker, now you have just invited the endless, "all of the new GNR songs blow away any contraband song, so Robin has to be a better player" arguments :nervous:


Same goes for you. You have spent 5 years or so now telling everyone how CD would be the best thing since sliced bread, and even if it isn't recieved that well by the general public you will have 10 jillion excuses about how its better than anything they've done and this that and the next thing. It's like the VMA thing, while an objective fan says Axl was pretty terrible that night, a rabid GNR fan will give you 10 excuses to justify it instead of just admitting he blew it.

When (if) CD comes out we will get lots of rationalizing if its not that great.....and in terms of timelessness I can already say it won't stack up to Appetite in terms of historical standing in Rock N' Roll given that its pushed 20 million copies, is generally considered in the top 5 rock albums of all time, and gave us Jungle (the most played song at every sporting event ever) and SCOM, generally considered ?to have one of the top 10 riffs of all time. So since it won't give us those types of things to objectively compare, we will get lots of "well its better because its better" types of arguments that are impossible to objectively compare.

while your at it can you tell me what numbers I should play for the lotto tomorrow?

YG-

We have had this similar conversation in other threads. Do you really believe that realistically CD will move 20 million copies and produce songs that are more popular and more timeless than Jungle, SCOM and PC? Almost 20 years later those are everyday staples on rock stations......you really think there will be 2 or 3 songs that will displace them in terms of being the songs GNR is remembered by when all is said and done? I just don't think to assume so is realistic, and if the album doesn't do that (serving as the benchmark) then it can't be considered the best GNR album ever released as it is kind of retarded to argue that an album that did not sell as many copies, produce the same amount of timeless songs, and isn't generally considered 1 of the top 5 if not greatest Rock N' Roll cd's ever is somehow better than Appetite.

Oh so album sales are going to be the gauge of what album is better? That is good to know. Also, it does not matter what the critcs say since they will mostly likely bash the album, just look at st anger it was trash and most metallica fans agree yet spin and rollingstone mag gave it 5 stars each or rated it very high. ?

Like Axl said, he knows he will lose some gnr fans with the release of this ?album but he knows he will get some new ones with the new direction. Its just funny tho, axl wanted to progess and he is, slash didnt want to and he wanted to make another AFD album and ends up regressing and making an STP album, go figure.

Anyways back to Fortus.  He is going to kick ass on CD. I really liked his live playing on the 2002 tour and what he added to the new songs since 2001. He makes the songs such much fuller.

That is why I chose not to comment on what you said ?: ok:

what you are saying has nothing to do with richard fortus and if hes cool enough or grimy enough to be in GNR

...

Okay? ?Im assuming theres some kind of logic behind this, but if its as nonsensical as your other "points," then Im really not even interested.

What with all the faces ??? ::) :no: : ok: :beer:
A cop-out around my actual point, but Ill answer: They are representive of the type of reaction certain ideas elicit, but you knew that. ?I still dont know what the purpose of your quotations was...


Well, youve just completely blown off your own "point," so my work here is done. ?:yes:



 ::)


Regardless, he recorded and played with GNR. ?That made him a guitar player in the band, and it wasnt Slash, Duff, or Matts doing. ?"And hes work solidly, basically every single day for the last seven years to try to help me have a Godamn band...the original guitar player that I worked with...Paul Huge." ?Thats the introduction Paul recieved at an actual GNR show, where he actually played guitar. ?Funny how different that sounds than, "Heres our temporary guitar player...Dont worry, hell be gone soon...Paul Huge."


How can you tell this?

By the way, wasnt it you who has said "Music is subjective, Booker, you dont seem to understand that" a million times?


Not sure what you mean by this, or how Navarro evades this stardom...feel free to elaborate.


Actually, no, I dont. ?

With all of this talk of progressing and regressing....can someone tell me what the advantages to doing all of this "progressing" is if it means you are no longer selling 15-20 million albums per release and selling out stadiums where ever you go for prolonged periods of time because I really don't see the advantages to it if it means going into hibernation for 10 years and not releasing an album of original material for 14....coupled with playing predominantly half-filled arenas on your lone tour. I am just not seeing the point to completely changing the formula when you had a clientel that was buying a product they loved and showed a want for, if it means getting into the situation like I described above?

Can one of these "have to progress" people please explain how it benefits both the band and fans because I am just not seeing it. (Axl always says he's not quite sure if it's been done like this before......I think we are all starting to see why.)

"How can you tell this?
By the way, wasnt it you who has said "Music is subjective, Booker, you dont seem to understand that" a million times?"

yeah i said that booker and you are still not doing it. A lot of people think Trent is one of the best but you dont, that does not mean he is not a huge star and one of the best frontmen. So you should listen to that advice, dont you think?

no

lol.....look whos calling the kettle black....every post I read of yours you always try to make fun of the poster and bring up stuff that has nothing to do with the actual post or topic. Yea you eventually give us your great analysis but before we get that we get the confusion expressions, quotes from what Dave said back in 1983, background checks on journalists, and all kinds of other wonderful stuff...but anyways as you were sayin...

Yes, good job soldier. Your paycheck is on the way

I knew you would come through....with the confusion
let me help

The original intentions between Paul and myself were that Paul was going to help me for as long as it took to get this thing together in whatever capacity that he could help me in. So when he first was brought into this, he was brought in as a writer to work with Slash.... Now whether or not Paul was going to be officially on the album or on the tour that really wasn?t an actual consideration at the time. It was in the air as a possibility but Paul was a friend trying to help us and he had a huge respect for Slash

Oh so you think a band should just keep doing the kind of music that made them popular instead of making the kind of music they want and growing as a band? That is how bands get old and stale. I love how people like you bring up the half filled arenas of the 2002 tour. ?Its really sad how people like you totally miss the point. But Ill say it again.
There was no promotion for that tour, there was no album in site and the city selection was stupid. Who the hell plays boise idaho? But again people like you forget they sold out major markets like Philly, boston and ny msg. ?Also you fail to mention they headlined RIR3 which was a huge event, they also sold out over seas. You also failed to mention that VR can just sell out crappy clubs and that is why they just play them. If they tried playing Areanas they would sell less tix than gnr did in 2002 and VR have an album, singles and vids out. ?So what does that tell you?

Once CD drops and they actually promote a tour, they will sell out and sell many more tix. they just cant be dumb and play in places like boise idaho. ?

I was at the fleet center in december of 2002 and it was sold out or pretty damn close and i was talking to people around me and a lot of them didnt even know about the tour until a few weeks before the show. ?

So tell me this. How is it that new gnr sold more tix on their so called failed usa 2002 aborted tour ?with no promotion than VR has on their club tour with an album?

If gnr did the club did like VR is, they would have sold out every show as well but Axl likes to think big.

Im not even sure what youre trying to convey...Im not sure you know either. ?And you still havent explained how you know Im so musically narrow-minded.

But I can just as easily say "A lot of people think Navarro is one of the best (including Axl)"...Then what? ?The "a lot of people..." argument is a rather easy one to make, and could easily be made for Navarro.  Hey, a lot of people think VR is one of the best bands out there (Grammy nods, top-selling rock album, critical praise, etc.)...You ready to take "that advice" and admit something Dave?  ;)

And its pretty hypocritical for an ardent champion of musical subjectivity to scoff at anothers opinion the way you do....but youre no stranger to hypocrisy, are you?

i must admit though booker...you do make me laugh
night ladies

Well.... for all of the complaining and moaning you do about other people ruining your threads with VR stuff....you are the one bringing it up. I didn't say one word about them in my post and I wasn't comparing the 2. I was comparing GNR to GNR....that is what's relevant...not what VR is doing.

As to the tour attendance.....CD or no CD, the novelty of seeing Axl using the GNR name back out on tour sold tickets. Most of the people who went to those shows probably didn't even realize they weren't going to see Slash there. Besides, it's a little easier to sell tickets touring under the name "GNR" which has been pretty substantial in the music industry the past 17 years, than it is under the name "Velvet Revolver" which is still in it's infant stage of life(regardless of how much they whore out there previous association with GNR).


You knew the answer to that question already, but it makes you feel good to hear people say anything positive about GNR because you personally have put your foot in your mouth so many times about CD and when we'll get it that your credibility around here is nil. So continue the VR vs. GNR pissing match if you want but it is retarded, as I will continue seeing VR live in person actually playing shows and listening to Contraband....and I will enjoy GNR if we ever get anything from them as well.

Irrelevent.? The bottom line is, Axls the one who pushed for Pauls presence within the band.? Nobody else in the band seemed to care for him, yet he was writing, recording, and eventually touring with GNR.? And it wasnt the doing of Slash, Duff, or Matt.? You cant look at Pauls writing credits, gigging, and overall history with GNR and honestly say "Axl didnt push for him."

Of course he's a legitimate member, as long as Axl keeps sending him his monthly paychecks.

By the way, to those who consider him not legit just because he happened to be a session musician for NSYNC.....how do you consider slash for playing with Marta Sanchez???. Yes, Slash colaborated with her (spanish singer) in a Marta Sanchez song for an album of hers like 6 or 7 years ago. To those who don't know her, it would be like Slash playing guitar for someone like Mariah Carey. (if slash got to bang M. Sanchez, lucky him!!!).

For those who haven't heard the song, it's A+.

BTW I think the fact that Fortus played as a session musician for N'Sync and Enrique Iglesias doesn't impact that he's a legitimate 'member' of GN'R. As long as Axl pays his bills, he's in GN'R.

But to thoseo who can't see the difference between INVITING A LEGEND TO HELP CREATING MUSIC and HIRING SOMEONE TO DO SOME GUITARS THE NOTE-TO-NOTE WAY AS THE PRODUCERS WANT, please use your head... would you recognize that it's Fortus playin' on a track? No. Or do you recognize if it's Slash? Yes, of course.

the only legit members are

Axl, Slash, Izzy, Steven, Duff...

The rest are all replacements, employees or what ever you want to call them...

The people complaining about Richard's N'sync connection are just as ridiculous as the ones complaining about Slash playing with Blackstreet, Jacko etc. I don't get why it's such a big deal, and by that I'm not saying I just disagree with the haters, I mean I really do not understand why this shit is so important to people.


But you don't know what their actual involvement has been like so far - I don't think you're able to state something like that at this point.

untill i see some kind of product from the new members that is equal to or better than AFD and adds a new chapter to GnR ... then the only legitimite members are the original 5....

2 years ago everyone would have said "buckethead is a legitimate member" but hes gone just like that...

Richard Fortus could leave today and nobody would really give a shit since its not like hes done alot for the GnR name anyways....

GnR will always be Axl,Izzy,Slash,Duff and Stevens band.....

If you don't understand why Richard played with NSYNC, I'll tell you. It was a job. He got paid so he didn't have to live on the streets. Even the "original GN'R drummer" Matt Sorum did session work before he got famous.

Do I have to tell you what Slash and Steven Adler did for money before GN'R?


Regarding Dave Kushner being a great guitar player because he plays with Slash. Yeah right. Izzy played with Slash too but you'll never see him listed as one of the greatest guitar players of all times. They both work well complimenting Slash. That's why they play(ed) with him.


On topic, Richard was brought into GN'R just like Slash was. He was recommended by a band member. As far as I remember, Slash and Steven joined because Duff had played with them before.



/jarmo

Unfortunately N'Sync was Richard's most famous work. And you maybe remember that when Slash and Steven joined GN'R, the band was nothing. After they joined, these five guys became one of the greatest band in history - Richard joined a world famous band, it's a difference, isn't it? He didn't make GN'R famous, he's just getting paid for being there. It's not against Richard: if CD comes out it can prove the value of his contribution to GN'R. BTW Matt played for Cult before he joined GN'R, he wasn't an unname studio musician, who plays a C, a D and then a G, and that's it, work done. But I don't know why you are frustrated because Richard didn't have a successful music career with his own bands - he did session works, because he didn't have a good band and yes, he had to live. But saying that Richard's playin' with N'Sync equals to Slash's work with weirdo Jacko... it's like saying that singing backup vocals for Village People equals singin' duet with Elton John.

On the other hand the 'Slash and Steven sucked for drugs' story is Steven's, Slash always denied this...

Frustrated?





I didn't compare them. I said many musicians have done session work before they got famous. Matt Sorum included (before The Cult).






I didn't mean that. Since as you pointed out, it was Steven who said it. I think they used to "entertain" old women who'd give them drugs and things like that.




/jarmo

is the vr section gettin boring? they're NOT gnr members for those who think so

i really like richard, but i will not say he is better than any members, they have different styles or disticntion and that equals the members, so some  of the a styles suits you and some don't

plain formally (like contracts) richard is a legit member- but unfortunatly not in yet in the gnr legacy t the big public crowd
- we'll see it ten years after release i guess :peace:

Like Jarmo, and some others have pointed out! You do what you have too to pay the bills. Besides when you play with top 40 acts it gets your name out there.

For you who don't think Richard is legit. For one have you heard any of his solo stuff. The guy is amazing. And second, Dizzy and Tommy talk very highly of him. That alone is enough for me.

As for Robin, he has a great style and great stage presence. I love watching both of these guys on stage!!!!!

have you heard any of his solo stuff??? does Richard Fortus have a solo album??  :confused:

he is a member of GNR. that's all.

How is that irrelevant? The reality is even though the other members didnt like him, they didnt suggest one name at the time. ?:no:




He played 3 shows with them. He might get a few writing credits on CD. But so did Wes Arkeen and others.


 ?
Did I not just give you a quote from Axl that said he brought him into the mix ???
He was just brought into the mix for the time being. Until they found anohter guitar player. They never were able to get past that and the direction of the band. As a result we have a new band today...and guess what....Tobias isnt in it....

I start to think that you are Axl Rose, cause you're repeating everything he said. To clear it: the band suggested names. Slash wanted Ryan Roxie to join, they tried out Zakk, Izzy was around and Matt suggested Robin Finck.

Because in order to support an argument you need quotes,facts ;)

What does that clear?
We know the situation and what happened...we are discussing the role of Tobias.

I hope your not playing the "overrated" card on Navarro.

Simply put, he's one of the most influential players of the modern rock era.  Highly skilled, with a unique style, tone and sound.

Unlike Fortus , Buckethead has a WEALTH of released solo albums and band albums including giant robot and praxis not to mention an enourmous amount of soundtrack work under his belt for which someone like me can make a very educated guess about his guitar playing ability. Moreover , Buckethead may have been unknown to the masses or internet GNR fans until he joined GNR but do a little research and you'll find that he was a regular couluminst in guitar player magazine for most part of 1996. He also regularly appeared in GW's year end polls every year .. so it wasnt like he was unknown , cause he was certainly pretty well known in the guitar community. He just isnt well known in the general community. Fortus is unknown in both areas , for now.


To be honest , I thought this thread was about GNR and their members not being legit and whatnot .. not a "one up each other" thread where gnr fans try and fight VR fans and that BS. I think slash hating STP has nopthing at all to do with this thread. Nothing.


Thats pretty damn ignorant.  >:(  I've never given Robin a fair shake?! Thanks for the info. I guess buiying the NIN dvd and watching ever video bootleg from the 2002 GNR tour just wasnt enough .... maybe you can point me to some other material where I can be better educated on his playing?  You say robin bends notes too far sometimes cause thats his style , I think when you're in a glorified cover band like robin and CO were in back on the 2002 tour , which it was at that time , a coverband .. when they play their own songs it will be a whole different story .. but when you are in a coverband you really need to make an effort to try and play the material close to the original. Even Bucket was guilty of of putting in too many notes sometimes EX: Night Train  ... but not out of tune bending , thats the worst thing ever.

And to be honest , I dont really enjoy watching robin onstage ... thats just me but whatever , I've tried and I cant , for now anyways , wrap myself around being a fan of his. I wish they woulda kept Bucket and Fortus and gave Finck the ax.

So were matt and Gilby members of guns n roses in the early 90s?

Saying Fortus(or Brain, Stinson, Finck, etc....) is a legit member is like saying Billy Preston is a legit member of the Beatles. Like Preston & the Beatles, they recorded ?with GnR(supposedly). Like Preston & the Beatles, they toured with GnR. However, since the Beatles, just like GnR, ?are no longer a current group, you have to say Fortus, like Preston, are NOT legit members since the bands don't currently exist, which is probably besides the point anyway.

Im not saying hes not good. Hes ok, imo. But for all that we hear of him hes nothing out of the ordinary. I havnt heard much outside of JA, and RHCP I will admit...but with JA his guitar work is good but nothing special. Slash blows him away in my mind.
Im not so sure he has a unique sound either. Slash has a unique sound..not sure Dave does...

Fortus, Brian, Tommy and Robin all have written songs for guns n roses, they have all helped write the new songs so yes they are legit members. They are not just touring with guns n roses they are now guns n roses. ?Just because they are not the original members does not mean they are not guns n roses, if you want to use that logic then slash, duff and steven are not guns n roses either because axl and izzy were in the band with tracii guns and others before they ever were in the picture.

Saul again no one except BH fans knew who he was before he joined guns n roses, even non gnr fans. ?You can ask random music people and im sure they still don?t know who BH is. ?So like I said just because you are not mainstream and well known does not mean ?you are not a great guitarists, so you are just missing my point.

As for one upping each other, I find it laughable people like you say tommy hated AFD but now he is in the band and bashing him for it is ok yet its not legit to bring up how slash hated STP and now has their lead singer. ?Why is that? Oh I know why. ?: ok:

And like I said you have never given robin a fair shake and everyone knows that. ?You have pointed out how bad he on songs when he plays it just like slash, that is all the proof we need.

Listen to his work in Love Spit Love or the Furs, hes really an awesome guitarist, and a very valueable member of gnr.  : ok:

I'd ask you to prove this, but we all know you can't, & just because some of them said so doesn't mean shit anymore, either. They have no credibility. They lost getting the benefit of the doubt years ago.

So I'm guessing the editors of guitar player magazine were like "who's that guy writing for our mag all these months?!" .. the people reading the mag , they didnt get to know him either right? What about all the people who bought monsters and robots before he joined GNR? What about all the praxis fans he had before he joined GNR? Do you know how big he is/was in japan before joining GNR? Please.


OK.  ::)


Again , thats ignorant. I've given robin more then a fair shake. After being VERY unimpressed with his attempt to cover GNR/Slash solo's live (no , he doesnt play them like slash) I went out and took everyone's advice and got my hands on the NIN dvd .. sorry , still not impressed. So I've given him a fair shake from what material I can gather on him and come to the conclusion that I dont think he's a good player. I figured everyone was entitled to their opinion.  ???

i mean slash and duff and etc is not members of gnr : ok:

the band members have said it so thats good enough for me

Youngunner, I edited my quote before you posted , it sort of answers your reply.

i gotta say that attempting to play the solo's like slash is like an atempt to copy bucketheads playin-
-can't be done

so i really like that you often hear their own input and their own version of the solo's
but intro to sweet child and stuff is a tuff one

To an extent you are correct but those are things they cant control. Release dates...What they do control and what they are a major part of is the actual writing and recording. You might not want to believe that but thats the truth.

The only legit members are Axl, Finck, Brain, Tommy, Richard, Dizzy and Pitman

Slash, Duff, Matt, Izzy,Steven and Gilby -  They dont belong to GNR anymore......

Quotes are not equal to facts. If Axl, Slash or Michael Jackson ?etc. said he created the world it wouldn't mean that he did. And it'd be easier for everybody if you emphasized what was a quote from Axl and what was a fact. You know, it's quite different.


same old trick again, YG... You cut off what you don't like and then try to act like I'd have been misplaced the argument. You said this:

and I reacted.

Slash and Dave come from 2 different sides of the spectrum, totally uncomparible.

Dave's was influenced by the mid eighties British goth scene along with forays into metal and LA punk.
Slash's influences are more of the blues based variety. ?Joe Perry, Eric Clapton and the like.

Both are highly respected, great players. ?Just different stylistically.

Tying this to topic, Fortus only has one thing in common with both. ?GNR. ?Slash played in it, Dave turned down the opportunity..

You crack me up. Lets see all the band members said they all contributed to the songs but that is not good enough? Why is that? so you think Axl pulled a Corgan or a Trent and wrote all the lyrics and all the music to all the new songs?

Again Saul you didnt know who BH was before he joined guns n roses just like 90% of other people in the world.
Like I said, unless you were a die hard you didnt know who he was.  Its a simple concept but you just dont understand it. And yeah he was in a few write up articles in some mags but he still was not a legend or widely known. 

Just to be clear, my point was that working with a huge rock star doesnt necessarily mean a guitarist is great or special, and I used some peoples dislike for Dave Kushner to illustrate that. ?Then they decided to change their original point mid-argument...but I never said Kushners great because he works with Slash; thats the logic I was arguing against.

Granted, Jarmo, you misunderstood my point, but its odd that you shot it down as it pertained to Kushner, and failed to address the original (and, unlike mine, straightfaced) claim that Robin is great because he plays with Axl. 

No, but you can download 2 mp3s of stuff he wrote for a video game soundtrack here :
http://www.jellifish.com/techniques/mp3artists/RichardFortus.html

Too bad it's a bit short.

never said they are. Quotes show 1 side of a story.

Um, me and Booker were discussing the role of Tobias, then out of nowhere you bring up Zak and Robin Finck. The argument was about how much of a role Tobias was actually going to play in GNR.

Tobias was by all accounts the first guy mentioned to Slash and the rest of the band. They all disagreed. so, AT THAT TIME, in the initial stages Axl was the only guy to bring in a new face.

robin is lead guitar while kushner and paul were rhythm there is a big difference.

buckethead is a well respected musician amongst other musicians,

but he was b4 gnr recognised more in the direction that marco beltramo is and similar than britney spears, slash and the mainstream

But not different enough for you to directly compare them anyway, right? 


I see you didnt even bother to address the last point I made to you (about taking "a lot of peoples" advive on VR)...Ive said it before, the blatant hypocrisy is stunning.

He replaced Slash. Do you think Axl would get a guy who can't play to replace Slash? Robin was good enough to play with a perfectionist like Trent Reznor. Maybe he doesn't suck as much as some people claim?

Kushner is great for what he's doing in VR. I don't think he's the greatest lead guitarist ever, but he does his thing well enough to be in VR.



/jarmo

I think the new band, axl included are bored with the old songs

notice how the old songs are ok but when they play something new, the energy,intensity etc etc are just turned way up.

I wanted to point out the NSYNC thing cause of the ever important street cred


thats a big reason Axl is the best frontman ever, he is respected by the rich,poor,black,white whatever race,color,class etc etc etc

a lot of people are already turned off cause there is a new GNR, u let it come out that a new member played with NSYNC and i think that will hurt GNR's street cred.

i understand he had to pay the bills etc but whatever happened to artistic integrity?

I lost some respect for SLash when he played with Jacko and those others but i agree with what someone previously stated

its different a legend being asked to collaborate with another legend than it is what Richard did.

I just dont like the old material that much as translated by the new band.

its hard for me to imagine richard or some of those guys dancin with mr brownstone or ridin the nightrain.

the old guys are older but still lived those songs which makes it authentic, the new guys didnt so it is in ways like watching an all star cover band.

So hopefully when CD is released axl will play the tracks off CD and maybe just the big GNR hits and that be it.

same people prolly thinks showering is gay

Exactally, Trent is a perfectionist just like Axl is, and both have/had robin at their lead gutiarist. ?That speaks volumes. ?If he was not a great guitar player neither would have had them playing in their bands.

And D you claim Fortus doing session work with N synch will hurt Gnrs street cred well did Josh Freeze doing studio work for Avil Levine hurt APCs street cred?

Or it could mean he is a pushover/yes man (that the only guys he plays for are totally in charge of the creative direction of their projects) who basically plays what he is told by those perfectionist control freak front men. It's all in how you want to manipulate it to best fit your argument. There is no set in stone answer that proves it one way or another.

Axl said at the vmas that the guys are intense about playing their own material....

lol street cred?. Gnr lost their street credibility a long time ago.
This is not a band coming from the streets. They have an established past and are not about keeping a certain image or pleasing people.
I think it would have come across fake if the new guys tried to act liek the old guys. Im happy they didnt. They did thier own interpretations of the osngs and just jammed and gelled as a band in a live setting. They werent trying to be like the old band. And thats a good thing.

Im pretty sure thats the plan
I can see them sprinckle in Jungle,PC,Scom here and there but thats about it.....

There is no way GNR will be playing old gnr sets when the album is out.

yes, thats it  : ok:

(leesixxrose) Check out Pandora's links!

Also Haven't heard it yet, but he did the sound track for Surf Movie. I have heard its really good. The links that Pandora gave are really good in my book!!

Slash is the one who wants yes men not axl. That is why slash got scott. Remember what Josh todd said about slash? Slash then didnt want to work with Josh Todd.  Also,  listen to what tommy has to say about Axl, he said Axl takes each members ideas and puts them into the new songs. So what do you have to say about that? Oh i know your answer, its typical, Tommy has to say that because he is being paid for Axl right?   ::)

 ???

What makes Scott a "yes man"?

u cant compare APC to GNR, APC isnt anywhere near the same level as GNR
i dont think APC have street cred

So ... have we decided if Richard is a "legit" member or not yet?  ???

Speaking of tommy and "yes men" .. my fav tommy quote goes something like this  "tattoos?! man I fucking hate tattoo's ... umm , I love the ones axl has though . they have meaning."

 :hihi:   :rofl:

Yeah, that was hilarious.

Of all tatoos (which he hates) and of all he has seen, he loves Axl's...
 :hihi:

he was producing that high pitched sustaining feedback that he created for the song. One of the best things he's done since joining the band.

I'll agree that he looked silly the way he was doing it during the VMA's though.  I think he usues a fernandes sustainer pickup in the neck position during madagascar to effortly produce that sustaining feedback.

street cred is poor black kids from the ghetto who listen to rap but know who axl rose is and think he is cool

Most of my black friends see Axl and think he is a cool motherfucker, seein the riots and his rants and just his vocal style, they dig him, after the VMA's he lost a lot of street cred

my same friends talked of how bad he sounded and the way he looked now.

point is axl with his street cred could walk into any neighborhood, any ghetto what have u and be cool and respected.

Guns N Roses as a band are cool and respected.? I think Axl, with his choice of members has destroyed a lot of that.? bucket with his crazy gimmick, and really richard isnt significant enough of a member to really make people care i dont guess.

like someone said earlier he could be fired tomorrow.

axl was right what he said to matt sorum, he really is Guns N Roses and i dont think anyone else is.

heres the test of how u can tell.

if every current member in GNR quit would axl seize calling it Guns N Roses?

i think not.

so in a way Axl IS the only legit member of GNR
I remember seeing Richard at the VMA's and he had his guitar between his legs and doin something and i was like "please stop, u look ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!" it kinda embarrassed me whatever the hell he was doin, it was durin madagascar.

Well Dave, let's say you had a real good paying job that required little time commitment and allowed you freedom to do whatever else you wanted and you were still going to collect a very nice check. And let's also say you were interviewed about your boss and they asked you what it was really like working for him, but keep in mind you loved this job because it pays real well and you do very little in return for your money, would you anything but nice things about the guy even if you actually thought otherwise? Would you really jeopardize that great paycheck and freedom to do your solo projects by saying you didn't like the situation even if you didn't?

Of course not, you would give us the same types of programed answers Tommy and the other employees give. If you really think Tommy is shooting straight in those interviews knowing there is a chance it would get back to Axl and he gets fired, then you are out of your mind. Maybe he really does like the band, who knows, but all we do know is that while Axl is signing his checks he will not say 1 cross word about him, and the same goes for any other band member on payroll.

Like I have told Younggunner in the past, we are on band member 13 now with Axl being the only constent. Regardless of how "easy" he is to work with, something must be up with the guy that turnover is the way it is, and when members leave they all seem to continue talking to eachother while making an enemy out of the guy. Once or twice is a coincidence, this seems to be a pattern in regards to actual band members who worked with the guy on a daily basis. None of them have given him a sparkling review once he's not signing their checks anymore, tell me if you think that's a coincidence?  ::)

Naupis i couldnt have said it better


plus look at the publicity and larger fan base  attracted to the new members solo projects that wouldnt have been otherwise

sometimes i think they use their GNR association to further their own agendas, buckethead was already proven to be doin so and i think the same goes for probably all the new members.

think about it, who would care or even know those guys if they hadnt joined GNR?

honestly?

So GNR's street cred is important so that you can impress your friends? Incredible, people usually think that way when they're around 13-16, but not much afterwards. I can say I'm happy I don't share this problem with you.


WTF are you on about?  :rofl:

You didn't get it, I think. Axl fired Gilby and then he took in Huge to play in Sympathy without the others knowing anything about it! So no, he didn't ask the others about Huge, he acted like he would have decided and the others have no words for this. You are right in some ways, that Paul was the first one who was 'recommended' to join the band, but since Slash & Co. didn't want him and mentioned other guitar players, your story is really far from what and how happened.

Josh Freese is no longer employed by Axl Rose and Josh always talks highly about Axl.  Brian May worked with axl and also talks very highly about his working with him, again May is not employed by Axl.

Don't forget that 'guitar hero' robin Finck wasn't ever involved in the creative part of NIN. He was a touring musician, not more, not less. And if you go to NIN forums, you'll find there people laughing on Axl Rose because he choose such a bad player like Finck. NIN fans are happy not to have him in the touring band anymore, and it tells everything. BTW NIN isn't a guitar-based music, and all the guitar are quite simple, mostly of the live performances. Anyone can play them. And it's a shame that a mediocre rhythm guitarist can play lead in GN'R.

street cred isnt about being a teenager, it isnt to impress my friends but basically its an attitude

its why axl can say the word "nigger" and get away with it
its why he can be rude and curse his audience and get huge applauses

not everyone can get away with that stuff but for whatever reasons axl has made a career on it.

if richard fortus was famous he wouldve made VH1's least metal moments

u cant be a bad ass rock guitar God when u started out playing on enrique iglesias and NSync records

im sorry u just cannot!

same argument as to why people dont want Nuno Bettencourt in GNR or countless others.

i love on the MSG2002 boot when Robin is playing the worst solo known to man before SCOM and the audience is yelling shit like "my little brother plays better than u" etc etc etc

only new member i was fond of was buckethead cause he was amazing and brought something just unreal to the table

Concerning Finck, I really think, he is a great guitar player, and the presence in stage is amazing...... I think many people will change opinion with the new material....

Ok, Slash playing SCOM sounds better and more natural.... but it's normal, he made that song.... it's his style..... try to imagine Slash playing NIN songs......

But now we have a new GNR with a different style, and Finck it's the new guitar player, and he have the ability to do a great job...... 

You peoploe all make trent reznor out to be some god ,he is way over rated.. ALot of people don't even know who trent reznor is... Just because guys like axl n trent like things done right doesn't make everyone that ever plays for their bands after the original lineup the most amazing players because they allowed them to grace the same piece of studio/stage with them..

You people throw the word great around like it's nothing, reading these kind of statements thrown around like a gambler at a casino really makes you wonder if people really know what great is..

I saw people knocked dave navaro before, yet wasn't he considered before gilby was taken?? I had read dave was in the running but was already with another band..
I love how finck is some great player but dave is some average player..

Either way I could give a fuck, but just don't act like because someone walked with trent reznor that they are automatically something more then they are simply because some reclusive frontman let them be apart of their band..

The only guitar player that new gnr has had that can be considered great is buckethead..

As for slash just listen to the gnr records, no one has played near the way he did or has anything near as memorable since.. That's 17 years ago...

What was the topic...is Richard Fortus legit member of GNR...
Well he's definitely a legit musician...and he's definitely got a contract with GNR
I think that's as close as you get to being a "member" of this new GNR so, yeah...he is...
I loved him with Tommy Stinson just because it was new material...and it wasn't like hearing someone replay Slash...which, is getting a little boring...just my two cents...
but yeah I think he's legit : ok: He's got great looking guitars too

A lot of people know who Jessica Simpson is, but that doesn't make her some God...



Yeah, and who do you think wanted him in the band?

Look at the list of guitar players Axl has worked with:
Robin Finck, Buckethead, Dave Navarro, Gary Sunshine, Richard Fortus, Zakk Wylde, Brian May, Paul Tobias

I guess Robin was picked because he has the right look.  :hihi:



/jarmo

Who is she????

I don't mind Fortus because he kind of reminds me of Izzy.  But like any new GNR member, they really have to release CD before I consider any of them legit members of GNR.  There have been so many people in and out of this band it is really hard to trust that someone will be there for the long haul. 

No, only the old members have had something bad to say about him.

And the band as it is today has been in the band for a long time now. SO its not the revolving door you make it out to be

ok, so, if Finck was in a band that he had no creative input, if you have not heard anything really original from the guy in a band setting, how can you say he sux?

I'm a NIN fan and I've heard him playing NIN songs for a couple of times and he was horrible. I always hated his playing, such a talentless guitarist in one of my favourite bands... When I heard he joined GN'R I almost died. This guy in GN'R? No way, Axl can't be deaf... I also have some bootlegs of the 2002 GN'R tour and he fucked up almost every note he played, even in the new songs. He can't play, has absolutely no talent. Ask anyone who can play guitar, he'll tell you he's one of the worst guitarists ever who played in a big rock band (1st is Paul Huge).

And as you tried to defend him, the fact that his over 30 and didn't make any music tells everything. I'll be happy if Axl fires him.

I can play guitar and i have been playing for about 11 years, and I think Robin is awesome. So that blows your whole theory out of the water. : ok:

Uh, then my theory was weak, as you pointed out. So let me correct it: ask anyone who can really play guitar and has some musical sense, he'll tell you he's one of the worst guitarists ever who played in a big rock band (1st is Paul Huge).  : ok:

BTW you are the first person on the world who claimed to me that you can play guitar and found Finck an 'awesome' player. None of my guitarist friends, none of the musicians I know found him even mediocre. They said the same as I - after 13 years of guitar playing - think about him: he's terrible.

Im more than grateful Robin and the other members did what they did on the last tour. They played songs they didnt even write and did it in a professional way. And IMO, they sounded great. Nothing is like the original, but given the circumstances of GNR they did an excellent job...

as for him fucking up the new songs...how the hell would you know?..Have you heard the studios and how they actually sound? Why cant he play the new songs differetnly everytime? They are his songs he can do whatever he wanst with them...
I dont know much about guitars and I know Finck isnt technical like Bucket but he has soul.

i judge finck on that horrible solo he played before SCOM

what the fuck was that?


i wouldnt want Dave Navarro anywhere near GNR

he played with christina aguilera and mariah carey on that horrible def leppard cover

Too late. He plays on one track already. :hihi:

Don't forget, he has his own reality show too!


Keep bashing Robin, it's so original. None of you have mentioned how he stepped up in front of 200000 people and sang in Portuguese yet. That requires some guts. Oh, and replacing Slash takes some guts too since you know you'll always hear "he sucks, he's no Slash" from certain people.
 


/jarmo

I never cared for Finck, but my opinion has softened on him a bit after seeing some DVD's. He is not as bad as I thought, but he still isn't anything special either. He is average a best, which isn't necessarily bad. He can never replace Slash (no one can in my mind), but he does a respectable job. Of course, they could do much better but  I have accepted him.

D, I'm not sure I follow your street cred argument. I think street cred has little to do with the band members. Richard Fortus may not have street cred, but does Robin Finck or Buckethead? No. I don't think too many people will be bothered with the fact that he played for N Sync. Yeah, you'll hear some jabs at him but for the most part the general public is more concerned with Axl's behavior and the way Buckethead and Finck looks than they are with Fortus.

I admit at first I thought it was lame of Axl to get a guy from N Sync, but then I realized it's no big deal. He was just a guy playing music for a living. It's much more respectable than holing yourself up in a studio for a decade, that's for sure.

yeah but we are hardcore fans so our opinions are a bit distorted from reality.

i mean to most of us, axl and GNR are the greatest most legendary amazing musical force ever and the world is just bursting with anticipation for Chinese Democracy when in reality it is quite possible that no one gives a shit.

we accept the new members cause we are axl worshippers and gnr is such a huge part of our lives we will accept anything to get what we need.

i need to hear chinese democracy, its like my life could never be complete till i hear it *which is insane and even though a lot what admit it, im sure there are people as psycho over it as me*

so in order to hear CD i will accept anyone in the band

but when i look at it objectively from my other uninsane unfanatical objective side i see things differently.

I hope and think thats the case. What better way for GNR to comeback then have the majority of th epeople not care.

I guess this is where I differ with a lot of fans. Although I have come to "love" Axl, that didnt come until later on as I learned more about the whole GNR situation. I began liking thi sband once I saw Rio. To me that was an awesome performance and got me hooked. From there the whole Axl thing came into play...but I love th eband as well...

Actually, I wouldn't consider myself a hardcore fan. At least, not in the same vain as most people on this site. I do not just accept anything Axl does and I don't just accept anyone he brings in the band. I don't even care if CD is ever released.

I'm someone who never cared for Buckethead and I didn't feel like he fit the band. I don't like Tommy Stinson because in my opinion he is in it more for the money. ?I am not much of a Finck fan either. ?Axl could do better, but at this point I don't care so I just accepted him.

The only new member I care for is Richard Fortus because I like his style, but I don't know much about him to be really invested in him. I am just not bothered with the N Sync thing because that doesn't make him a bad guitarist or uncool. Now, if he was singing and dancing with them then that would be another story. ?:hihi:

I feel indifferent to the rest of the band because I don't know much about them.

I don't think so. not Stinson, neither him nor Finck. They are here for so long that it can't be just for the money. However I have some doubts about Brain. Brain might be here only for the money but I think Tommy really invested himself.

Didn't Tommy go from telemarketing to being in GNR and having enough money and freedom to do a solo career? I think that could be enough to keep him with the band. He has it better with GNR than he has had in his entire life.

i have came to accept GNR because i love axl so much i will accept anything to see and hear him again

but when u really think about it, its pretty lame the new band performing the old songs

its lame comparing richard fortus to izzy stradlin

izzy stradlin was the creative genius in GNR, check the credits


just cause he looks like izzy he got the gig

i have a problem with that

I guess ive seen the way the old members (who really with 3 members have a more legit right of sayin they are guns n roses) did things, found a band, renamed it, workin their asses off and are successful, compared to axl, who is using the GNR name but that isnt GNR.

some days i understand and accept the fact Axl kept the name but thats my hardcore insanely axl rose worshipping fanatical side

when i step back and think objectively though, without the other members GNR wouldnt be what it is

and when i see people giving the new band props over the old band it starts to piss me off because until CD comes out they are cover musicians.

and until one of them writes a memorable riff i am not giving the band any sort of credit

buckethead impressed me with his amazing playing, his style and gimmick were retarded however

a gimmick is what u do when u dont have talent, bucket being great doesnt need all that.

If CD comes out and the songs are amazing i will give the new members credit

until then, they are hired employees.

whats up with none of the members not knowing whats goin on?

does that sound like a band to u?


i agree with Acquiesce as naupis stated earlier

why would u leave a cozy high payin job where u dont have to do shit while getting free publicity for your solo projects?

axl is basically financing the solo endeavors of all the new members.


GNR was a life, a soul a breathing machine
it isnt some corporate entity that u can change around and remain the same.

u cant manufacture what something once was.

its like dumping your best friends and tryin to mold complete strangers into what was already there.

maybe its never been done before for a reason?

you know axl has a past too, at the end of rio it seems they wen't through a lot to get there-
- and many would give axl most credit 4 gnr, so the main intrest lies there i think

and people seems to respect the new players, and gotten aware of their work, and taken a likin to it
also the live contribution to the band

my fav now is richard, when bucketheads gone, he plays good and seems like a cool fella,
chris is a fav too
i'm also intested in hearing more of his contribution than what already been heard

so far it worked great

ps\ go to www.gunsnroses.us enter site- propaganda- the blues and you'll hear chris high and clear in the mix : ok:

if they do it on future tours, then it would definately be lqame. But it was for only 1 tour. A tour in which the band just wanted to get out of the studio...

Where did you see that?

Axl and GNR have been doing the same exact thing VR have done and will be doing...the only difference is the whole name thing.

Your making it seem like the red carpet will be rolled out for GNr when they are ready and the world is ready to embrace them. You yourself have doubts about that. SO why is it different? They still have to have music that is as good if not better than the old lineup to be considered a long term success.
We have had the name debate for years now. We all know it will help, especially short term but in the long term it will be because of CD, and how the guys are accepted by the public.



If you dont like his style and appearance thats one thing, its your opinion...but to say its a gimmick is not being fair. Thats the guys personailty. Hes fukin weird and out there. DO you really think the whole bucket thing is to sell records? That would be a gimmick. The guy is a whack job but to say hes not tru to himself and his fans is not being fair...
It would be like me saying...o slash's cigarret smoking on stage is a gimmick

Your saying 2 different things...what you should say is that the new guys still have big shoes to fill and have to prove it before you crown them as good or better than the old band...that would be fair..

what does the whole hired gun thing have to do with that is beyond me

Maybe it has taken this long because Axl decided that it was best for things to fall into place rather than manufacture and just use the name. Instead of settling on whatever he has made sure that before anything, the band was right. I think that gets way overlooked by many here. If Axl was a real scumbag and dint care he could have released a shitload of albums by now, of all kinds of sounds or whatver, with a zillion players, instead he made sure that he could get a band that has chemistry with him and each other and made sure it was a band effort...

the vr and gnr battle reminds me of the relationship between alternatibe medisin and schoolmedisin :hihi:

and yeah, it was something about izzy when axl met richard and said it was the right guy...

think it's in the articles somewhere, dunno details, fill in someone :peace:

There all "hired guns" helping Axl on his solo project. This Nu-Gnr is not a band at all, there is no communication between them. They pop in every few weeks they say to see how things are going. It's all Axl masterminding the whole thing.

But hey i love what Stinson and Fortus are doing with the band no matter if they are real members or not.

no it isnt..

Tobias out... Fortus in...

Buckethead out... . ??? in


The ONLY news we ever hear is when a member quits or a show is cancelled...


now we dont even get that anymore

Its not the rosey picture you like to paint it as.... 

Its a revolving door of Musicians AND Producers......and its not Guns n Roses..

I have a problem with people who come up with reasons why certain band members are in the band.


We?re fortunate to have found Richard who has this vibe kind of like Izzy but with amazing feel. The first thing I heard Richard play was the beginning of "Stray Cat Blues" by the Stones and he did it with the right feel. Richard likes to play rhythm. He?s an amazing lead player and very technically skilled. He really likes the pocket that Brain sets and the two of them click with Tommy so we finally have the real deal rhythm section, as Richard is a proven professional. Basically, Richard?s the guy that we always were looking for. I think that we?ll go on to write some very interesting things with Richard and he?s already done some rhythm work and some leads on the album.?

GN'R press release
gnronline.com

I guess you decided to take that paragraph and shorten it to "Richard looks like Izzy".




/jarmo

When will you people begin to realize that Tobias was never in the band?

Bucket is the only member that has left.

Thats unfortunate, but its only been one member and that has nothing to do with this band being a revolving door.

Never said it was rosey. Its definhately not. The whole situation sux right now. But you are talking about the actual band situation, and regarding that, there really hasnt been a problem, except for Bucket....

As for the producers....
Stop and think for a second. Maybe, just maybe, there have been numerous producers becuase there are different kinds of material to be worked on. Maybe even another album...maybe godfor bid a third albu...

Instead of having 1 producer do CD, he dediced to have a producer produce certain songs. SO if its ballad stuff...he brings in x, rock he brings in y, industrial he brings in z...etc...

so if you want to consider that a revolving door go ahead...i see it as a descent way of executing your plan for each song....

hey, can you post or link the airport story too, i can't find it

i know i read that axl said "he looked just like izzy" however if he fits, thats great

I care about one person only, Axl.

Anybody who says they haven't heard Richard play guitar, might be interested in the following piece of info:


Richard Fortus: additional guitars, tracks 2, 8, 10; cello on tracks 7, 10


Guess what album!  ;D




/jarmo

Of course he's a legit member. It doesn't matter what you've done in your previous work, as long as you're truthful and loyal to the band, and want to take the band to the top of the world, and play your ass off, you're A ok...

i dunno can you\someone say?

tommys album?

probably NSYNC~~~~~~~~~~~

He plays what Jarmo posted in Tommy's new solo album. (Village Gorilla Head)

 :yes:

thanks, should have known ::)

i will admit, reading that article that Jarmo posted gets me excited

i guess it could be cool if he is as good as axl lets on

maybe he is the one people like the most cause he isnt trying to be gimmicky?

buckethead is a gimmick, i dont care what anyone says

it aint like he walks around his house like that

and i can almost guarantee he didnt talk to axl through the puppet

1) Yes he is as good as Axl lets on? : ok:
2) yes, but also because he is the best and because he has this "classic-rock" vibe. It's important. And Fortus is elegant to watch, I compare that to a football player, when you see Zidane, or Maradona, or George Weah or Pel? they have Class, they are elegant to watch, they are spectacular and esthetic. Do you see my point? to return to guitarists, it's like when you see Slash playing guitar, he plays with Class, can't explain that. He has "something". It's magic. For exemple Buckethead is not class.

No?  :hihi:  Dont fool yourself .. the guy spends alot of time in that mask and bucket. Or some misc mask. Of course he doesnt wear it all the time but I think you would be a tab surprised to know how much he does. I'm just going by written accounts from fans and friends mind you and tons of home video of bucket ... erm yeah.

Maybe , maybe not. But he made sure they built him a life sized chicken coop in the studio for him to record in didnt they?  :rofl:

Some people will never understand the Bucket

class and rock n roll...interesting