Here Today... Gone To Hell!

lots of people that worked or heard the album always said that they can?t say anything about it because of the "contract"... do you think after CD is released, this people could finally say what were in their minds that time?? and do ytou think the "ugly" side of this could work for a "good publicity" for the album sells ??

FRUSTRATION IS THE WORD!

Hmmmmm that is pretty true but this "contract" is it actually a real document or more so just a verbal/moral agreement. If its verbal they could talk now if they want , I've seen Zakk Wylde talking about "jamming" with Axl during a couple months of 95 and said some nasty stuff bout him. Never heard anyone else talk about it , also makes me wonder how long these songs have been around? Because I remember Slash and Duff saying that they were doing new songs with guns and they were just mind blowing really epic and past what UYI was wonder how long the ideas have been kicking. But I think that once it is released people who are not on it will generate a decent buzz for the album , talking about the goods , the bads and the ugly.

No way man. Those gag orders dont just stop when the CD is released....if they say something, Axl will jump down there throats.

They are called confidentiality agreements, and I am sure they are part of the overall contract that all the band members and collaborators sign before they begin work on the project.

Usually it?s not part of the job to talk about what you?re working on....

It goes in most jobs. It?s usually not appreciated if you talk about current projects with outsiders. You could be a doctor, a programmer, an engineer or a record producer...

If you?re a programmer and start telling everybody what you?re currenty working on, you?d be without a job pretty soon and would probably find it hard to get a new job once everybody knew you love to talk....

You don?t need contracts, it?s common sense.



/jarmo

Good point! But many of the ones we're talking about are people interviewed by pop-magazines (atleast) yearly, also considering the circumstances I would guess they have signed contracts..

But as usually, only Axl knows :]

But I think Axl takes it to a whole other level.  VR's making another record right now, and you can find video blogs and updates about it.  In interviews they talk about their producers, the record's style and what they hope to accomplish.  That kind of stuff means a lot to their fans.  I wish Axl could understand that better.

(I'm not really one of them, for the record.  I like those guys (except Scott), and I'll always follow their careers, but Contraband doesn't exactly fill me with hope for Libertad)

Exactly what I was getting at. On the latest one there is a video of them doin some rough mixing and jamming on a new song , you see scott's lyrics hand written , see slash doin some takes , and they have a nice little chemistry as a band. It means alot fans to do a a little bit of talking. Axl has kept this under lock for a long while....

you'd think that somthing would have leaked from them like they could have told some random person just to get word out or something like that. I dont know.........but thats what i'd do :yes:

CHINESE DEMOCRACY :headbanger:


 :peace:

What else do you expect from him?

This project isn?t your ordinary "let?s put a hit song on the album with a bunch of fillers to get the money from the fans" project....




Different band, different situation.




/jarmo

^ Ouch. Jarmo disses Velvet Revolver.

I wouldn't consider him saying different band , different stuation as him dissing the band. They ARE a different band in a much DIFFERENT situation.   ;)

I think it also serves as protection for the band members themselves. ?If they legally cannot talk about Axl (personally or professionally) the new CD, etc, it automatically stops a lot of the questions reporters and such would pressure them into answering. ?I think all of that can feed into resentment when you're part of a band and all a reporter wants to do is ask you about someone else. ?It seems like it would be more freeing to them. ?I doubt they want to answer questions about Axl even if they were allowed to do so. ? ?

this is music.
I dont remember programmers having fans, or being respected about their art.
and in the end, they still talk about their projects, share interesting facts, their discoveries, etc, etc.

Music is art, people are usually excited when talking about their projects. I personally cant wait to share the details,
and excitement when I'm drawing a new concept, or whatever.

Gagging orders for "delicate issues"... ok, I can live with that, I dont care about their dirty underwear. but I'd like to get opinions,
views, facts,etc etc, from all the artists involved. the little details, fun anecdotes, whatever brings "warmth" and a human face to the band,
and not some corporate product.


the whole "gag" thing in GNR camp might be just an urban myth in the end.

I wouldn't be so sure.  :hihi:

Now we know you are not to be trusted.

Very true. If i ran my mouth about things at my job to "outsiders", I'd be unemployed real quick.

Mr. Fortus told me the confidentiality agreement stuff is B/S in an email quite some time ago.

of course he did, he have signed it himself,






it was a joke man, a joke

naa i can be trusted but when its somthing as big as CHINESE DEMOCRACY i would blab till i died (or killed by Axl :-X) wouldn't you want to know? wouldn't you do the same? what would you do? its complicated i know but if that letter we got not to long ago is true about the track listings and about the songs then i think some one already blabbed 'cause he said he wouldn't say who he was untill after the release.

unless it is bull shit then i dont know.


 :smoking: :peace:

i dont think this was a verbal contract  :hihi:

What contract?

don?t tell me you didn?t read about this all this years ppbebe

I doubt the contract exists (at least not in the form we are speculating)
Just look at the "merck incident".
Merck spoke freely about the issues that involved him, but yet he chose not to reveal anything else.
I guess morals and ethics are what prevent people from talking.... nothing else.
After all, many people have spoken, beltrami, and other parties involved... but they didnt know much to begin with.

Finck, Fortus,... probably chose to keep quiet because they dont want to look like liers, by making statements that may not end up happening in the end.

Just take a look at Dizzy and Stinson. By the 2003-04 those guys were the only sources of informations... giving us info on the album state, and posible release months...
I guess they found out that they cant say anything for a fact so they keep quiet.

I remember reading in 2002 an article with stinson when he said that he's all done with recording, and so did brain.
People automatically assumed that the album is soon to be finished... 5 years later, look at us.


I wish we would get better info, on what songs they are working on, what details they are finishing... etc.etc.
that would make the wait much more easier, and much more interesting, than plainly speculating, bashing, and bitching.

I am a programmer, and I am respected for my art.  Although I am not programming when I make my art.   But theres also people who like my programming talents and contract me for that.

Axl has always liked to have that mystery about him.   Its no different really than before.    That letter he wrote the fans a couple months back was the most open thing he's ever written.

I think most contracts would have a legally binding period. For example, if you are working on an album that is expected to take two years to make, there is no point to stop people talking about it for longer than say, four years. After all, an employee should be able to give details of what they actually performed while working, and, there is little reason fror the artists/label to hide the details of the development and progress once the album is already out.

Think there's just some mutual agreement amongs the bandmembers not to discuss it yet. If everyone would be talking about the album already, all hopes would get to high and -as the past proved- nothing is certain. Guess there are lots of things surrounding the creative process that delaying the thing. They are also trying many things and nobody was sure what would end up being on the album. So lots of uncertainties keep them form talking about it instead of talking a lot and saying things that in the end turn out not to be true.
I really believe we will hear a great deal about the creative process once the album hits the shelves as being part of the promo. I'm sure the band wants to let us know certain things that they just cannot do yet.

I don't know, Dizzy told me in 2004 that all the vocals were done and so was the music.  I assume he wasn't under 'gag' orders.  Then again Axl probably has a tendency to re-record and perfect things.  Fortus told me that when Axl held up the phone to the practice on Trunks show in may, that it was him playing lead and not the new guy.

These guys aren't totally gagged.  I assume that they probably don't want to say much until its finished because things change often.

Considering the way things get distorted by media and fans and the fact that Axl preatty much like to keep is privite life, privite, (and some other members of the band too, Brain and Robin for instance) i wouldn't find surprising that a lot of the people working for the band have cofidential agreaments, why put that much pressure on their heads?

You are right, VR makes and releases new music. That is what bands do.

Why they can't tell any information? Axl neither

why has this subject popped up again?  This is extremely normal.

No one in Linkin Park is talking about their new album.

No one at Disney is talking about Pirates 3.

No one from Lost is allowed to talk about secrets of the Island.

No one in the Halo camp is talking about Halo 3.

No on who works for JK Rowling can talk about the next Harry Potter.

Get it?

13 years without saying anything? ::)

The time between Return of the Jedi and Phantom Menace was 16 years.  No one spoke during that time either.

It hasn't been 14 years of silence....We've heard 10 songs in that time.  official releases, leaks and boots.  Axl wrote a very detailed letter recently giving us more information than we deserved.  What more do you want?

First off, I have no problems with GnR keeping things so quiet. ?It's their perogative to do so, and all the "behind-the-scenes" stuff is ultimately none of my business, nor am I entitled to much more than enjoying their music, buying GnR products, and supporting them with my wallet if I choose to do so.

Furthermore, I agree with your comments about many jobs having an inherent, if not formal, confidentiality component that is an essentail requirement of the job. ?Doctors, teachers, etc., all can meet with severe legal reprecussions (and they should) for speaking "out of school" and violating various ethical and legal confidences.

That said, GnR are a band, and they are part of the entertainment / music industry. ?Gossip, behind the scenes information, etc. are all part of that world. ?It's not that the public has a right to know what goes on - they don't - but it is far more common and acceptable to both want to know details that shouldn't get out, and to become engrossed in them when those details do come out in the world of music, pop culture, and entertainment.

Even more, it's an industry that typically doesn't have anything more than an informal or unspoken vibe of "it's not cool to discuss band stuff outside of the band." ?Are there legal reprecussions for doing so in the music industry? ?When it comes to band members and their places in a band (not talking about mangers, lawyers, labels, etc.), there is virtually little or no precedent for band members having any type of "gag order," and even less in terms of accountability. ?And, as we all have seen in the past, "common sense" is often nowhere to be found when it comes to speaking out of turn in the press.

Which is why the secrecy and silence of GnR is a magnet for so many. ?Rumors are everywhere, and - true or not - the total silence only further fuels many of those rumors. ?Clearly, it would be asinine for the band to any way respond, or to feel any sort of obligation to address them. ?Assuming any of this "contract" stuff is true, I can't blame Axl one bit for wanting to ensure that private matters remain private, that the public judge the band by their music and performances rather than anything that has gone on in private over the years, and hold band members accountable if they cross any lines.  But that doesn't make it any less unusual to do so, as it appers far from common practice for most bands/musicians these days.

But to get back on point, I think there are significant differences between professions that have legally-required confidentiallity components (doctors, teachers, lawyers, etc.), and those of muscians playing in bands. ?Like I said, though, just because GnR may be in the vast minority for keeping things so quiet for so long, doesn't make then wrong for doing so. ?Just very, very different.

No, honestly.? I don't get it.? The things you mention - Pirates 3, Halo 3, Harry Potter, etc. - those are all continuing parts of an ongoing story with characters, plot points, and surprises that can all be ruined in advance.? Why would anyone involved with them want to discuss details?? It's idiotic to think that writers/developers would want the story ruined in advance, as they want people to buy tickets or watch their shows.? ?When it comes to stories and sequels, you're right - secrecy *is* normal.

When it comes to records and music, though?? I think such secrecy is far less common.? In fact, most bands go out of their way to talk about their in-progress album to generate buzz and get people talking.?

In that respect, I'm not sure your Linkin Park example holds up:
http://www.nme.com/news/linkin-park/26189

There was no information in that article.  Basically all they did was allude to a possible release date.  That's the exact same thing GNR has done.

Your sequel thing is correct.  And that's what GNR is.  GNR isn't a debut artist.  It's GNR.  Chinese Democracy is their 6th album.  We know the name of the album, names of songs, the names of the players on the record, the names of the producers.  We know that they are mixing.  That's a lot of information.  All we don't know is an official release date. 

But if that's all you want...then fine...here's a new release date:  Tuesday May 29th, 2007.  Happy now?

VR gave us some clips nothing spectacular, with 10second clips of the new songs, some tracks names painted in a wall, and a provisory website wich has nothing special.

GNR gave us  4 new song leaks, studio rough mixes, lots of track names (options in the setlists, posted at gunsnroses.com, and some official websites from related people [beltrami, brian may, etc] with more names...) and some website wich has nothing special.

I don't see extreme differences about chinese teasers and libertad teasers