Here Today... Gone To Hell!

falcon gave me negative karma for talking about my thoughts on libertad in the VR section.   

I've never argued getting negative karma before because I deserved it, but this I did not deserve.    :confused:   

In fact two of my negative karmas were given to me by this mod because he doesnt like what I ahve to say about his precious VR band.

is this not a GnR board?  Anyways,  He's abusing his power in that section with posters who don't like VR.

 :'( :'( :'(

Karma points are retarted...Who cares? Get on with your life.

i agree, i've never made an issue of getting them before but I think its wrong to be "punished" for not liking VR and voicing that opinion on a Guns N Roses site.

what is weird is that Jim Bob received a negative karma for talking about his thoughts, and the guy who said this, in the same thread...

And you can't expect everyone to love ''Axl and Co GNR Version  ( what is this now ) like 4.0''

...has not.

What the fuck is people like the one who wrote that doing in this forum? They cant even respect the GNR name!! THAT deserves karma, in my opinion, not a simple and inoffensive opinion...

Jim Bob should not be forced to worship VR... in fact, nobody should be forced to worship that mediocre band. if Im not wrong, this is a GNR forum for GNR fans, and Jim Bob is a GNR fan. Period.

Anyway, I dont think Falcon is the problem of that section... Inspector Gadget is, in my opinion, who's killing the VR subforum. The intolerance level in that section is growing day after day... and he's one of the main responsibles of that

^ Since the name GN'R has never been changed people come here to talk about GN'R, not "what GN'R currently is". If he had changed the name to Axl Rose Project, you could make an ARP forum and then your argument would be valid.

hey man i know it sucks but getting that but i don't like VR either so i stay out of the VR section unless the title of the thread is "bomb VR thread" i choose not to cause its to easy. I like a few of there songs but just really really REALLY not feeling the Scott Wieland (sp?) thing. Thats why i don't like VR and thats why i don't go in the VR section. I know karma points don't mean any thing to you, they don't to me either, but if you don't want any more just stay comfortable in the good ol' G'n'R section :beer:

its not really about the karma points.  i just thought this of all boards would be the last place you are penalized for not liking VR.  Fuck I dont even go to any other GnR boards anymore because of all the pro-VR/anti-Axl setiment thats taken over so many of them.

but GnR is currently what it is.   the argument is 100% valid and you know it.

No it's not valid. GN'R is Axl, Slash, Duff Izzy Steven. It's also Matt Dizzy Gilby Tobias Freese Brain Buckethead Finck Fortus Stinson Pitman Ron and Frank. You don't have to like each player. Since the name GN'R is on the album AFD and the name of this board, then people who like AFD will come HERE. And they don't have to like anything about CD, because of the aforementioned reason.

The only way you can ban people for loving AFD, UYI and all 'old' stuff but not new stuff is if the name of the band had changed.

Get the fuck over it.

You weren't given negative karma for not liking the band.

You don't like the band, fine.

You think their music is not to the levels of Axl's band, great.

You were lit up for stating the same bullshit over and over and over again. you made your point the first dozen fucking times.

it's real easy to stay out of that section if you don't like the band.. staying in the section and starting shit by saying what you feel about that band doesn't make the section go away.. or have any other point at all, really

Stay calm.

I got 2 negative karmas from AdZ for the same reasons.

First one cause I don't like MC Hammer and the second one cause I don't care about the Spice Girls reunion...

I don't care... I gave him 2 for his hair.

Or is it because you are banned from most of them? Now we know why.

just mygnr.

You gave me two because of jealousy for my hair and because I won't wear a hairband like yours.

I keep telling you just because it's made of metal doesn't mean it's like the music.

Your hair should be banned from everywhere. -2 is nothing compared to what's coming...  :hihi:

It's not metal, it's fuckin plastic, which according to the music you listen to, "it's fantastic"...

And I just got told by AdZ to be sensible!  ::)

If you are going to punish me for constantly saying i dont like VR, then punish those who constantly post taht they do like VR.   same fuckin thing. 

Jim Bob's making a stand!  : ok:

I think that anyone who doesn't understand why people come to the GN'R section just to bash the new band, yet linger around the VR section to consistently talk trash despite clearly not liking them should be lined up in the street and spanked.

I'm not directing this at anyone in particular.

Hey smart ass, this is a GN'R site for GN'R fans.

Not VR fans.

VR fans have their own sites to visit.






/jarmo

I meant it in the way that people say "How can you get any satisfaction from constantly trashing something?? Don't you have better things to do with your time?"

Edit - Maybe you need a day at a spa to relax?

Do you want to buy a clue?


Not everybody is getting some kind of satisfaction from posting what they think of that band. I find it way more fun to post about GN'R to be honest.


When I see Slash basically admitting that Duff went to rehab while the majority of you were defending him, I post it.

When I see Slash saying something that doesn't match the shit the band's management has said, I'll point it out.

None of you are interested in doing that so I do it for you.  : ok:



Don't you have anything better to do with your time than to come to a Guns N' Roses site when you're clearly not into the band at this point?



/jarmo

Yes, please!


Yet you DO get some satisfaction (regardless of whether or not it's as fun as posting about GN'R)...




Do you need me to post how much I don't care about the Australian tour (the 6th? leg of a tour for an album that isn't out yet), I figure it's better to steer clear of that section...  I'm taking a break until they do something I find interesting, like Axl suggested.  Lucky for me this site has a VR, Jungle, Bad Obsession and Sports section.... remove those and yeah, I won't be here until there's a point where I'm "into the band".

I'll say it again: relax a little! (I said this because you find it funny when people who don't know you post like they know you  ;) )

Jim Bob - it's only karma points, that's all it is. ?I think karma points are lame, anyway. ?Last I knew, karma can be given or taken away for whatever reason somebody wants. ?There doesn't have to be a valid reason for it. ? It's karma on a message board - that's all. ?So what? ?I think there's bigger things to whine about, in life. ?

I think Falcon is doing just fine.

And, here we go again....another topic that's been reduced to the same old arguments. ? ::)

You say so because you haven't seen me upset.....  :-*


/jarmo

As well, I assume it's possible to go to those VR sites and post on how they stink.

In quicksand.

It makes no sense for a GN'R fan to go to a VR site to post that VR sucks and GN'R doesn't.

 :confused:



/jarmo

Not really.

I know you're upset about him repeating himself, I can understand that.

But there's a lot of VR fans who make all kinds of GN'R references as soon as somebody dares to say something critical about their favorite band on a GN'R site.





/jarmo

And I know you got upset at me once for suggesting something along these lines, but anyhow, why not eliminate the VR section?

As I keep repeating because you refuse to read my posts on the matter, because some Guns N' Roses fans are curious about what the former members are dong these days.


That doesn't mean they are gonna buy the VR VIP packages or join the Scott Weiland Is The Greatest Singer Alive brigade...



/jarmo

And that's why he got neg karma.


Sure there is, we see it everyday. ?Emotions run high with allegiances and some just are no going to be fans of both bands.

There's also the those who come into the VR section of the board with the sole purpose of jacking a thread under the guise and rational that "it's A GNR site", thinking it gives them licence to act like a jackass

Courtesy and respect should be at the forefront of the entire forum, regardless of what sub forum
one posts in.

I've read your posts on the matter and I often read "this is a GNR site" over and over.




I'm surely not part of that brigade. But your point alone shows that you realize the potential for some sensitivity when it comes to this situation. It's the nature of the beast when it comes down to GNR and it's extended family, divorced or not.

How do you explain the fact that several of the VR fans posting in that section have little or no respect for the band this site is dedicated to?




The problem is that some of you expect us to treat VR the same way we treat GN'R.

But to me it's not fair to assume all GN'R fans love VR. It's simply not the case.

It's true that some like both bands, I got no problem with that.


But I do expect people who come here to actually like and support GN'R.






/jarmo

Haha :hihi:

I like this board since it's not sterile nor a trashcan, how you say something suck respectfully anyway :P

I don't, my statement was all encompassing.? With that in mind, if this site has forums for GNR's entire history there will always be those who draw battle lines.? If it's only for GNR in it's present state than the problem will work itself out via natural elimination.

My issue is below, instigators should be dealt with accordingly no matter for whom or why they're here for.

Well, did you deal with the VR fans who bring up GN'r in the VR discussion in order to bait GN'R fans?


I've been accused by some of these people for bringing up GN'R in the VR threads and others (VR fans) are doing the same while nobody says a word.





/jarmo

That's my question to you, do you want the forum moderated in this fashion (equal punishment on both sides) or do those who provoke under the cloak of "it being a gnr" forum getting free reign?

Right now it seems like the VR fans are given way too much freedom to put down GN'R in order to make VR look better.

How many "at least they're putting out albums" posts do you need to read?


Posts like that are only there to get a reaction from people like Jim Bob.



/jarmo

So if you're upset about Jim Bob repeating himself about how the vr album sucks etc., wouldn't it also naturally upset you when certain vr fans repeat themselves over and over about how vr's album is amazing etc. as well?

Would it upset you when some gnr fans keep on talking about how amazing gnr is?

No, and repetitive posts stating the opposite don't bother be anymore either. But apparently repetitive posts upset Falcon, so I had to ask him if the above situation upsets him too. It's a valid question...

On a GN'R board?

Really?



/jarmo

Fair enough...


Seriously Jarmo, do you think that everybody should just believe everything that their favourite band tells them? or do you think it's good that some fans atleast try to maintain a healty sense of skeptisicm towards their favourite band?

Explain your idea of skepticism.

For many it means "we'll believe everything except what the band is saying".


Why is it that the so called skepticism doesn't work on VR? I don't see you questioning them. Or are you?

We got examples of them lying to their fans but are you upset about it?





/jarmo

falcons doing his job, he moderates the VR section.

Its not his fault if the mods of the gnr section cant control the gnr hate.....

he punishes those accordingly.... im sure the other mods do  too, some go over the top though but still, its in your power...so i dont see why you question his position jarmo when it was you who assigned him to moderate that section.

maybe it's just me but it should ring a bell when a mod at a gnr forum refers to the band as "axl's band"...

well, a GNR message board is (or at least, should be) the perfect place to find people talking about how amazing GNR is...

If you are looking for a place where everybody keep on talking about how amazing is VR, a GNR message board is the wrong place.

There are LOTS of GNR fans (me included) which dont like VR's music at all, but we are still interested in Slash/Duff's artistic careers. We are filling the two obligatory requirements to be posting here: we are Guns N' Roses fans, and we try  not to break any board rule. Why should I (or Jim Bob) stop giving my opinion? Why I should not say ''Libertad has no killer guitar solos, I think it sucks'' if that's my opinion, I am not breaking any rule, and I am a GNR fan?

It seems like everyone is allowed to be repetitive as long as you're not criticizing VR...

I think everyone has the right to express his/her opinion about anything here (well, except the current GN'R when you can say only highly postive things  :P). But it's tiring to read the same crap over and over again about how much VR sucks without giving reasons why you think this. The same goes for the constant 'praise spamming' when people only post that 'great!' and 'wow, it's cool' etc. It's clear that some people come to the VR section only to hate and ease their frustration over something else.

sure expressing opinions is great, thats what a messageboard is all about.  but when certain posters do nothing but trash GnR (the band the board is dedicated to) just to "prove" how great VR is, I scratch my head as to why those people are on a GnR board and not a VR board where those opinions would be more common and accepted.   

Perfect example, this ZRO character.  Every post I've seen from him is either pumping up VR and/or bashing GnR, he does this in both the VR section and the GnR section, and has the nerve to be complaining about Guns N Roses fans saying bad things about VR.  I don't see why people like this don't just take their routine over to the velvetrevolverforum.com and where they'll find a lot more people that share their views

Particularly weird is that these guys start whining whenever someone says something negative about VR, but are constantly putting GnR down at the same time

Falcon's doing a great job in my eyes. The guy is actually rational.

You do realize that practice goes both ways, there's plently of posters that do the exact same thing in the opposite direction.? Tons of mindless bashing of VR to elevate perception of GNR as well, it's undeniable.

Yes, but you have to understand what the people who visit this site are here for.....

I can see that you might get tired of it, but this isn't the VR fan boy central that maybe some other places might be.


Personally I don't feel like having to explain to some VR fans why I think Scott Weiland is overrated among them. I'd definitely understand if I was questioned about that on a VR site..... But we're GN'R fans, we probably have different opinions on what makes a great front man than lets say people who grew up listening to STP.....



/jarmo

I get that line of thinking, no doubt about it.?

That said, an educated guess would say GNR (in all forms and eras) got people here on their initial visit with them eventually settling into the parts of the forum (GNR, Ex members, VR) that hold their main interest.?

Would you agree?

Yeah, but if you're implying that the people who settled for the VR section shouldn't be exposed to any negative comments about their favorite band, I wouldn't agree with that.



/jarmo

Not implying that whatsoever, just pointing out that there's plenty of people who aren't soley here for GNR in it's current form.

Well then I'd say they might be in the wrong place and that's why they got the wrong expectations.



/jarmo

I kind of disagree with that statement (if I could just interject for a minute between the two of you) - I'll say it again - this is the site I've liked the best because it's been about GnR, in all forms, and is inclusive of everyone who's ever been part of that band - it's not about "original" or "current".  This has always been a great site because of that.  So, yeah, there's going to be plenty of people here who aren't solely here for GnR in it's current form.  So, I don't think that puts them in the "wrong place".  I fully see where you are coming from, however, that this is a GnR site, and people who come here should be here, as fans, and not bash GnR or Axl in the VR section.  I go to the VR section, here, even though there are other VR sites out there (one which I'm at, everyday), because I like to see and read what people are talking about, here, as well.  It's just sad that everything is reduced to petty arguments.   

Then maybe you and other vr fans shouldn't be so sensitive when someone says they don't like the band.  : ok:

I couldn't care less about you and others not liking VR. But the constant hating and spamming is annoying. You don't like it, you post it, great. You don't like another thing, you post it, great. You don't like anything this band does, you post it, great, although I'm a bit jealous of the guys who have so many free time to psnd it on something they don't like. But repeating the same shit again and again and the neverending mindless bashing and saying how much better the current GN'R is should be banned. According to Jarmo, everyone is here for GN'R - so it's stupid to repeat again and again that it's better than everything else on the world. You don't go to the NIN topic to tell the people there all day long that GN'R is much better than NIN. You don't go to the Avenged Sevenfold topic to tell the people 5 times a day that their band sucks and GN'R is better. If you did that, you would have been banned a long time ago. I think the VR guys deserve the same respect from posters and mods that the Bad Obsession bands get.

and maybe gnr fans shouldnt be so sensitive when someone says slash is better in guns than robin.

if someone isn't a fan of GnR in its current form they are wasting their time on a GnR site.   pretty simple.

i like the new form of gnr.

but i cant see why fans of guns n roses music, which is what started it all, cant state they preffer slash playing what he created over finck

fuck slash, he left 11 years ago.  he's not coming back.  deal with it.  : ok:

that's not what it's about

pretty much thats exactly what its about.  people want to come to a gnr board 11 years later and whine about the fact that he's not in the band.   it gets really fucking old.    either accept the guys in the band now, or fuck off.   if someone misses slash that much and cant' get over it, thats what velvet revolver sites are for.    I'm sick of seeing the guys in the band being disrespected because of some bitter slash fans.

You're always the one JB, and you always do a damn good  job of stating the truth.

BTW, you goin' to be on the strip on the 4th of July?

lmao, i THINK this is a little different seeing as this is a GUNS N' ROSES board

Did you read my post?  This is a GnR site about the band in ALL it's forms...that's why it's a great site.  GnR has been around for more than 20 yrs, with many different people in it.  So it's not that simple, is it?  Some people like the original band.  Some people like the current line up.  And there are many other lineups, in between.  If I remember right, this site is inclusive of all.  I come here because of that.  It tends to have the most current news about what anyone, who has ever been in the band, is doing.  That includes Adler, Izzy, Stinson, Buckethead, etc.  To say anyone is wasting their time here just because someone isn't a fan of GnR in its current form is pretty narrow-minded, I think. 

ok.. why don't you ask Jarmo.

Ask Jarmo what?  What am I supposed to ask, here?    "Explain"!       

ask exactly what you said.   if someone isn't a fan of GnR (as in this is the year 2007) and comes to this site anyways are they wasting their time?

I have no idea what you are talking about.  My answer to your question is, no.   
 
 

I would agree with Jim Bob to the extent that while there are many out there who would welcome the return of the old line up, I can see that constantly complaining about it is upsetting to fans of the current line up and a bit rude.

However I disagree with the concept that if a person doesn't prefer the most recent line up then they have no business at all following GNR.

I think it depends why a person is a GNR fan.

If they are a fan because they follow the band loyally in the way people follow a football team then from that perspective it would seem odd for people to still support an old line up of the football team from 10 years ago when those players now play for other teams.

This seems to be the logic JB is using. That slash has been gone for 10 years so has no relevance.

But then there are those that are fans because of the music. If you like GNR because you like AFD, Lies, YUI, or TSI then it would make sense that you will like the musicians  that made that music.

Even if those musicians are no longer with the band, the fact that you still like the GNR records means that a GNR site will always have relevance to you, even if a different lineup now exists. Slash will always have some relevance in relation to GNR music because he recorded the albums with GNR. It could be 100 years since he left and he is still relevant in relation to the songs he peforms on etc. Time has no relevance in that matter. Is Bon Scott irrelevant to Ac/Dc?

Overall i think the follwing:

1. Those of us that like the old band  should be considerate of the fact that some people don't and like the new band more.

2. There is no logical reason why you can't be a fan of GNR music and yet be ambivalent yet polite  to the new band, especially given there are no commercial records yet of the new band, its logical that most people who are GNR fans are so because of the old music, so to say they can't discuss the old music or musicians is really silly.

So what i think we all need to do is live and let live a little. JB needs to accept that you can be a fan of GNR from the old days and not like the current form of it as much as the old. And others need to accept that people like JB love the new band and that at present theres not much chance of the old band getting back together.

Personally...I like a bit of both.

I'm a fan of the old band and all the GNR recordings we have. However I also respect the original music (leaks) we have heard from the current line up.

At the end of the day...some people like VR and some people don't. However, some of the people that don't like them seem to expend a lot of energy in disliking them. I mean if your not a fan of VR why even pay attention to the section. Its odd to me.

I just think that certain people on this board use the excuse of it being a GNR board to act like trolls. No one disputes that its a board for GNR fans. But i don't see why that justifies troll like posts. If you don't like baseball, don't post 100 times in the baseball thread saying it sucks....

I don't know why people are paranoid about Falcon being biased. I've seen him delete/edit posts that were anti-gnr in the past and he always tries to put an end to any gnr vs vr arguments. And give karma to VR fans as much as anyone else. I think JB is just assuming people are out ta get him or something.

Falcon does the best modding job on this forum IMO. but I better start up an account at a VR forum and leave this place since this board doesn't seem to welcome the type of fan I am. I actually like the music that was made in the past and the current music made by old and new members. this place doesn't seem to be the right place for someone who appreciate more than the current line-up of GNR and the few songs we have heard from them, all because the rules seem to differ from topic to topic and that it's impossible to show you're apprecciation of a band with ex-members without getting bugged by a hoard of strictly new GNR fans.

what's the best VR board?

Yeah, makes you remember this place before all these fake "New GNR fans"  were around.

what's a fake new gnr fan? :rofl:

Somebody who uses their supposed allegiance to the current lineup to troll in the VR section. Everybody knows it's just to cause trouble.

I think you're a little paranoid buddy. No one here, as far as I can see, is trolling the vr section for anything. If anything it's the vr fans who troll the GNR section and bitch and moan about the setlist etc. You guys really need to get a life...

Yeah right, none of the people who really like GN'R and VR actually even post in the main GN'R section, which is more than which can be said for you and a few other posters.

I guess you really must like GN'R because you don't post about them....  ::)

Or maybe you like something that hasn't existed in over ten years and since we have things going on with GN'R in 2007, you just don't feel like posting your "go Slash!" posts.



I post about VR because they say a lot of really stupid shit.

You ignore it because it seems like they do nothing wrong in your eyes. Even when they basically admit to things they've denied earlier.




/jarmo

Er, *cough* what is there to post about anyway? Tours I can't attend? I do read though. There's a difference. The main GN'R section is now a mirror of the GN'R On Tour section. When there is something interesting to talk about, I'll post.


"Go Slash!" posts? :hihi:
Why don't you find a post of mine that says that? This is your general argument whenever someone criticizes GN'R anyway. "Oh, they must be a Slash fan..."


Don't know why you even bother or care?


Read my posts then. I though Slash's work on Libertad was ordinary. However, the same can be said about you too about the current GN'R lineup and please don't give me the "You're on a GN'R board" line, it's old already.


Yeah, at least they try and do that, don't they?

Somebody has to point out that the stuff they say makes no sense since none of you VR fans do.






GN'R isn't the one lying about things.






/jarmo

you're really disgruntled and dissatisfied, aren't you?
if you don't like it here, leave
fuck outta here

Fair enough. Can't be applied to certain other posters, though.


Wow, you have me all figured out. That's exactly what it was. You're really good at this stuff aren't you? :yes:

Jarmo if you don't like VR that's fine....but really...you keep making these comments about them lying to fans...and frankly it seems your looking for someone to take the bait, i presume because you have some great vr-are-liars stories waiting in the wings...

You can find comments for most bands where what they have said at one stage is is inconsistent with something else they've said. I think its a function of bad memories, drugs, the passing of time, poor phrasing, avoiding personal questions, bad reporting and a host of other factors.

The irony is that GNR (whom you and I both like) is amongst the worst offenders in this regard, and so i can't understand why if VR have done a similar thing its suddenly of importance to inform everyone of their misdeeds.

For example in 2004 it was reported that Tommy had heard the final mixes on CD. Yet now 3 years latter the band informed us earlier in the year that mixing was underway....

Now i'm not going to use that as an excuse to bash tommy, but all slash has to do is move house and people here were finding ways to decide he is a liar from it.

I think this kind of thing is the problem, theres nothing wrong with people expressing both pro and anti VR opinions...but it seems some posters arn't so much interested in sharing their opinion as they are in using it as a platform to make remarks for the sole purpose of inciting the same old bullshit VR vs GNR arguments.

I hate to call out Jim Bob on this, but frankly thats how i see a lot of his posts. I get he likes the new band. And its fine if he doesnt like the old band or VR, but sometimes his posts are phrased in an objectionable and obtuse manner that looks to me like he is intentionally trying to stir a fight out of people who feel differently to him....they are said in a confrontational manner as if he is waiting for someone to argue the point...so he can then bring up the fact that its a GNR board etc etc....

And jarmo I feel your recent posts are somewhat similar...its like your daring people to ask you about why you think VR are liars or something. Its your site, and you don't have to like VR, but i don't get why we all can't just live in peace, not pick faults in each others heros.

Now jarmo and JB i don't know you personally so if i'm wrong I appoligise...and I don't profess to know your actual intentions...i'm simply stating how i think your posts might be being perceived to others on here....

Well i've said my bit, and if you all want me to leave because of it then I will, but I'd like to stay here...because at the end of the day i'm a fan of GNR (of old from the records), a fan of VR, and a fan of GNR (the new leaks of the new band)...i like all 3...and its sad that we have to get into these arguments.

The truth will win in the end.




Sure you can.

But when these lies cause shit among GN'R fans because some of you VR fans attack GN'R, it's just a bit too much.

So in order to avoid that, I post things you might not like.



Really? Did they say they had to cancel shows in Europe due to "scheduling conflicts" only to have the guitar player admit to a fan site that it was because they realized there was no money to be made?



You can't prove he didn't.




By the way, since it's ok to "punish" Jim Bob for trying to instigate something in the VR section, the same applies to Booker in the GN'R section.




/jarmo

Too much drama on the board...

The only thing I have against anyone here is that the thread about buttocks was locked, that was not cool.

I'm sure even a part of you realizes it was an assential action.

No, not at all. Buttocks of beautiful women good...karma point system gay.

He said ass action? *beavis and butt-head giggle*

VR have a section on this board and are doing quite well for themselves whether you like the music or not. DEAL WITH IT, and stop spammin the boards with things equally as annoying as what you complain about people saying in the gnr sections.

velvetrevolverforum.com

BTW, great post, monkeychow! 

You guys deserve your own sitcom  :rofl: When theres nothing of interest to read in the GNR/Ex Gunners section I always head straight for the Administration section to read about people bitching over Karma points (which obviously turns into a 5 page argument regarding GNR vs. VR)

I :love: HTGTH  ;D