Political troubles in Europe

[nesquick]

France said "No" to the European Constitution, Netherlands is likely to "say" No also tomorow. As a consequence, England will probably reject it also.
Today, Jacques Chirac decided to fire the prime minister and to change the governement. It's a pretty big "bordel" (= desorder) in France right now (I mean in a political way). What do you think? How does your country judge the French "No"? and more generally, do you think Europe is living a political crisis? How do you see the future in Europe?
I'd like to have Europeans point of vue and foreign (Americans for exemple)? point of vues. Where is Europe going?

[axl_rose_700]

The French no is great although I would like a chance to be able to say no aswell.

Although knowing the EU they will tinker with the wording and bring it back with more money behind it and eventually get it through. Ah the good old EU, so democratic and fair.

U know, The UK pays 2 n 1/2 times as much as France into the EU and it will soon be 17 times as much if the EU scraps the (cant remember what its fuckin called, o well)

[Axls Locomotive]

France said "No" to the European Constitution, Netherlands is likely to "say" No also tomorow. As a consequence, England will probably reject it also.
... Where is Europe going?

yet another person who cannot tell the difference between england and britain...your european history/geography lecturers dont teach very well do they...

Europe's politicians can stick their straight bananas up their arses...

as soon as the no vote occurred, then they elect a new prime minister...another person to try and convince voters that integration a good idea when it is clearly not going to work...politicians will try to get what they want and not what the voters want...a new prime minister will do little to convince the public to vote otherwise...

[nesquick]

yet another person who cannot tell the difference between england and britain...your european history/geography lecturers dont teach very well do they...

ahhh come on England or Britain is barely the same for me. I think people understood. I spoke about the country of Tony Blair.

[conny]

In Germany, the majority of the people are against the EU constitution too, but they are not allowed to vote for or against it like the french. The german people were not asked, not even informed.

A lot of germans support the french in voting against the EU constitution, but they can't do much cause their own politics are fucked up. In October, Germany will have early elections. Cancellor Schroeder won't resign, but since his party lost all power in the country, he had to call for early elections.

But it will not change much. The new cancellor will be Angela Merkel who unlike Schroeder is not best friends with russian and chinese commies. Her party is also against Turkey in the EU and leans more towards good relationships with the USA and Israel. So expect Germany to convince France to support the next war - on Iran.

That's where Europe goes - wherever the "politicians" want it to go. Votes are shows held in our so called democracy so people think they are in charge and shut up. But it's the banks (Rothchild etc.) that are in charge of politics. Business as usual...

[nesquick]

In my opinion, Europe should reconciliate with America and things will be better. Europe and America will be stronger. It's a bad sign when Europe and USA are divided. Europe is way to weak for the moment to exist "alone". It's an illusion. It's too soon. Europe needs good relashionship with America, and vice versa, because Europeans will never agree all together (25 or 27 countries? WTF? how could so much countries agree on everything? It's impossible!) and America needs its European aliee.
The only obsession for Mr Chirac was to "fight" against USA...but he forgot? his own citizens. He should have used his energy to resolve intern French problems instead of using his energy to "fight" against America over these last years, wich was an useless thing. More generally, Europe should stop thinking of "fighting" the USA and had better make effort for its own European citizens. Go back to the citizens. That's the message of the last week-end in France.

[N.I.B]

Personally, I think that the Europeans should just keep to their own busininess and the hell with the americans. Reason bieng, simplt put, It's mostly America's fault that the world is screwed up. With a country bombing innocent countries, potentailly approving gay marrige, abortion, and stem cell research, its best to avoid them. Not to mention the racial tension around them and all the corruption. Europe should stay clear of America because of the fact it is in termoil. In a country where the white rich men live in paradice and the poor black man live the the ghettos, its best to avoid the spreading of its propaganda and corruption.

[GnRNightrain]

Reason bieng, simplt put, It's mostly America's fault that the world is screwed up.

Simply put, you are an idiot if you believe that.? Now that is a scary if you actually believe that.? It is also sad that your mind could be so warped.? You really think that America is the cause for the parts of the world that are screwed up?? That is such an ignorant statement.? The sad thing is you arent the only person that feels this way in Europe and around the world.? That is specifically why we are distancing ourselves from the UN and other world bodies.? Many ask why we dont sign on to the criminal court?? Well, because there are many people like this guy that believe we are the evil of the world.?

We either do too much, or we dont do enough.? We cant win.? Basically most countries just want to utilize our resources how they see fit.?

[SLCPUNK]

Reason bieng, simplt put, It's mostly America's fault that the world is screwed up.

Simply put, you are an idiot if you believe that.?

Look at nightrain, throwin' out the insults early.

You sure don't like opinions different than yours do you?

Your answer to everything is that everybody hates America for no reason, and that is why we have to not abide by the world court, and commit war crimes around the world.

America is the ONLY COUNTRY in the world found guilty of terrorism in world court. We ignored that. Just like you ignore all the other shit we have done over the years.

[journey]

Reason bieng, simplt put, It's mostly America's fault that the world is screwed up.

Simply put, you are an idiot if you believe that.? Now that is a scary if you actually believe that.? It is also sad that your mind could be so warped.? You really think that America is the cause for the parts of the world that are screwed up?? That is such an ignorant statement.? The sad thing is you arent the only person that feels this way in Europe and around the world.? That is specifically why we are distancing ourselves from the UN and other world bodies.? Many ask why we dont sign on to the criminal court?? Well, because there are many people like this guy that believe we are the evil of the world.?

We either do too much, or we dont do enough.? We cant win.? Basically most countries just want to utilize our resources how they see fit.?

Although I don't agree with N.I.B., I don't think it's fair to call him an idiot. He's only 14 years old. However, his sentiment isn't uncommon. It's safe to say that America is pretty much hated by most countries. But this topic isn't about America. Let's leave the big A out for once.

[SLCPUNK]

Nightrain told a 14 yr old off? 

Good one! 

******

Guess you'd say this story is just because Europe blindly hates America.


France's top anti-terrorism judge, Jean-Louis Bruguiere, has warned that al-Qaeda is now more fragmented and a bigger threat than before.

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that al-Qaeda had attracted younger recruits radicalised by the Iraq war.

"We have a multiplication of all the cells, groups and connections," he said, warning that "unknown elements" were being recruited very quickly.

Judge Bruguiere stressed the importance of identity cards to prevent terrorism.

He also said the courts should be allowed to consider evidence gathered by wire-tapping - as in France, but unlike the UK, where it is inadmissible.

On the al-Qaeda threat, he said "the difficulty that we have is especially with the problem of Iraq... the situation is more confused, more complicated than before".

He said compulsory ID cards had proved "very important" in his country's effort to thwart attacks.

"We have a lot of legal means you (the UK) don't have and these legal means allow us to control and possibly prevent terrorist activities.

"You have the capacity right now, despite the fact there are tough immigration controls, to go from France or continental Europe to the UK with false papers.

"And if you don't have this possibility, to have a database, to know exactly and to control individuals which would be suspected to use false papers in terrorist activities, you miss things."

In the 1990s, Mr Bruguiere focused on the activities of Arab veterans of the 1980s war against Soviet troops in Afghanistan, especially Algerian militants who carried out several attacks in France.

He became an expert on the various cells of Islamist militants operating around the world, many of them loosely linked to Osama Bin Laden's al-Qaeda organisation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4595313.stm

[GnRNightrain]

Reason bieng, simplt put, It's mostly America's fault that the world is screwed up.

Simply put, you are an idiot if you believe that.? Now that is a scary if you actually believe that.? It is also sad that your mind could be so warped.? You really think that America is the cause for the parts of the world that are screwed up?? That is such an ignorant statement.? The sad thing is you arent the only person that feels this way in Europe and around the world.? That is specifically why we are distancing ourselves from the UN and other world bodies.? Many ask why we dont sign on to the criminal court?? Well, because there are many people like this guy that believe we are the evil of the world.?

We either do too much, or we dont do enough.? We cant win.? Basically most countries just want to utilize our resources how they see fit.?

Although I don't agree with N.I.B., I don't think it's fair to call him an idiot. He's only 14 years old. However, his sentiment isn't uncommon. It's safe to say that America is pretty much hated by most countries. But this topic isn't about America. Let's leave the big A out for once.

So you are saying that what he said is not an idiotic statement? ?There are certain things that are just opinions and there are certain things that have no ground in the facts and are based on hatred and bias. ?His statement was one of them. ?I consider it no different than making a racist statement that blacks are the reason for poverty in America. ?It would be an idiotic statement. ?I dont care if he is 14. ?If he wants to discuss on this board and throw his opinion out there, then he should be willing to accept criticisms.

And dont worry, I acknowledged that his criticism is not uncommon. ?That is the sad thing. ?Again I emphasize, this is the reason that the US is distancing itself from world organizations and Europe. ?If people truly believe this over there, then we have a complete different view of history and a completely different view of morality and what is right. ?If that is the case, then we shouldnt devote our resources to an organization that doesnt share our views on morality and what is right.

[GnRNightrain]

Nightrain told a 14 yr old off??

Good one!?

Sorry, I didnt know he was 14.  Jarmo doesnt exactly put our ages under our names.  I would think if you are willing to put your opinion out there then you could take the heat.  Anyway, glad to see that you would try to persuade him that he is wrong.  Of course, something tells me that you concur in his view.

Guess you'd say this story is just because Europe blindly hates America.

Certainly, this was a possiblity of the war, and a troubling thing if it is true.  Certainly stories such as Isikoff and the many SLC Punks in the US that claim that the war was for oil and revenge dont help the view of America overseas.  As long as they believe that our motives are as you say, recruitment will skyrocket.  That is why it is essential that the press has actual scredible ources for their stories.

[SLCPUNK]

SLC Punks in the US that claim that the war was for oil and revenge dont help the view of America overseas.

I never said revenge.

 Gee wonder why they didn't invade any dictators in Africa? Maybe because they weren't sitting on a fuckin' ton of oil?!?

That is why it is essential that the press has actual scredible ources for their stories.

Like Fox and the intelligence that Bush used to go to war.

Oh....wait a minute......

[SLCPUNK]

So you are saying that what he said is not an idiotic statement?  There are certain things that are just opinions and there are certain things that have no ground in the facts and are based on hatred and bias.

Countered ONLY by your bias.

If people truly believe this over there, then we have a complete different view of history....

Yea people actually believe that we were founded on Christianity now.


and a completely different view of morality and what is right.

Yea abortion is bad, but blowing up kids (especially brown ones) is ok.

  If that is the case, then we shouldnt devote our resources to an organization that doesnt share our views on morality and what is right.

And distance ourselves from people who call us on our bullshit.

[journey]

Reason bieng, simplt put, It's mostly America's fault that the world is screwed up.

Simply put, you are an idiot if you believe that.? Now that is a scary if you actually believe that.? It is also sad that your mind could be so warped.? You really think that America is the cause for the parts of the world that are screwed up?? That is such an ignorant statement.? The sad thing is you arent the only person that feels this way in Europe and around the world.? That is specifically why we are distancing ourselves from the UN and other world bodies.? Many ask why we dont sign on to the criminal court?? Well, because there are many people like this guy that believe we are the evil of the world.?

We either do too much, or we dont do enough.? We cant win.? Basically most countries just want to utilize our resources how they see fit.?

Although I don't agree with N.I.B., I don't think it's fair to call him an idiot. He's only 14 years old. However, his sentiment isn't uncommon. It's safe to say that America is pretty much hated by most countries. But this topic isn't about America. Let's leave the big A out for once.

So you are saying that what he said is not an idiotic statement? ?There are certain things that are just opinions and there are certain things that have no ground in the facts and are based on hatred and bias. ?His statement was one of them. ?I consider it no different than making a racist statement that blacks are the reason for poverty in America. ?

I think it was a misinformed statement/opinion.

It's great that you're passionate about your country, but a line has to be drawn between pride and self-righteousness. ?I love my country too, but I know that other people don't. And that's probably, because they've never lived in it. So, negative comments should be taken with a grain of salt.

[GnRNightrain]

SLC Punks in the US that claim that the war was for oil and revenge dont help the view of America overseas.

I never said revenge.

 Gee wonder why they didn't invade any dictators in Africa? Maybe because they weren't sitting on a fuckin' ton of oil?!?

That is why it is essential that the press has actual scredible ources for their stories.

Like Fox and the intelligence that Bush used to go to war.

Oh....wait a minute......

Ill let this post stand on its own.  Ill let people figure out the flaws in the substance of your post.  Ive pointed them out so many times I think people on the board are beginning to see them for themselves.

Ill just ask one thing, you do realize that you we have used more oil in the war in Iraq than Iraq has pumped out of its wells since the war began?

[GnRNightrain]

Reason bieng, simplt put, It's mostly America's fault that the world is screwed up.

Simply put, you are an idiot if you believe that.? Now that is a scary if you actually believe that.? It is also sad that your mind could be so warped.? You really think that America is the cause for the parts of the world that are screwed up?? That is such an ignorant statement.? The sad thing is you arent the only person that feels this way in Europe and around the world.? That is specifically why we are distancing ourselves from the UN and other world bodies.? Many ask why we dont sign on to the criminal court?? Well, because there are many people like this guy that believe we are the evil of the world.?

We either do too much, or we dont do enough.? We cant win.? Basically most countries just want to utilize our resources how they see fit.?

Although I don't agree with N.I.B., I don't think it's fair to call him an idiot. He's only 14 years old. However, his sentiment isn't uncommon. It's safe to say that America is pretty much hated by most countries. But this topic isn't about America. Let's leave the big A out for once.

So you are saying that what he said is not an idiotic statement? ?There are certain things that are just opinions and there are certain things that have no ground in the facts and are based on hatred and bias. ?His statement was one of them. ?I consider it no different than making a racist statement that blacks are the reason for poverty in America. ?

I think it was a misinformed statement/opinion.

It's great that you're passionate about your country, but a line has to be drawn between pride and self-righteousness. ?I love my country too, but I know that other people don't. And that's probably, because they've never lived in it. So, negative comments should be taken with a grain of salt.

fair enough.  While I have pride, this isnt just based on pride.  Making the statement that he made about any country is misinformed.

[Doc Emmett Brown]

Europe is way to weak for the moment to exist "alone".

but doesnt that mean Europe needs an organization like the EU to become stronger?  Why did the French people vote against it?  Is it more economical reasons or that you dont like the political leaders of the EU? 

My other question is what does good relationships with the US have to do with the existence of an EU?  Cant you have both? 

Europeans will never agree all together (25 or 27 countries? WTF? how could so much countries agree on everything? It's impossible!)

well, 50 states dont always agree on everything either!

[Nightfall]

U know, The UK pays 2 n 1/2 times as much as France into the EU and it will soon be 17 times as much if the EU scraps the (cant remember what its fuckin called, o well)

You know, Holland pays the most of the entire EU per head of it's population....and it will only become more...
Did you also know that the english receive the most compared to what they pay/burden they carry...i mean they still don't have the Euro as their currency, so they don't carry the burden of all the other EU countries yet they intend to cry the hardest about this EU.

But it will not change much. The new cancellor will be Angela Merkel who unlike Schroeder is not best friends with russian and chinese commies. Her party is also against Turkey in the EU and leans more towards good relationships with the USA and Israel. So expect Germany to convince France to support the next war - on Iran.

Oh yeah...THAT"s way better! Sure Turkey shouldn't enter the EU (since most of it's land isn't in the EU), but to tighten the relationships with USA and Isreal...get real...we are going to be (atleast i hope that the politicians have enough backbone to) our own union, the only thing we can "use" from the USA and Israel is to use them of an example of how NOT to do things! And Germany convincing France to do certain thnings...wow that will be the day...

Personally, I think that the Europeans should just keep to their own busininess and the hell with the americans. Reason bieng, simplt put, It's mostly America's fault that the world is screwed up. With a country bombing innocent countries, potentailly approving gay marrige, abortion, and stem cell research, its best to avoid them. Not to mention the racial tension around them and all the corruption. Europe should stay clear of America because of the fact it is in termoil. In a country where the white rich men live in paradice and the poor black man live the the ghettos, its best to avoid the spreading of its propaganda and corruption.

You can't ignore other countries, especially not the USA...they've been thorugh this too a long time ago...so we can learn from their huge mistakes. unfortunatly the politicians don't see that yet/don't do that yet...

That is specifically why we are distancing ourselves from the UN and other world bodies.  Many ask why we dont sign on to the criminal court?  Well, because there are many people like this guy that believe we are the evil of the world. 

Great excuse...and i know with diffrent situations you can make some more up...

And dont worry, I acknowledged that his criticism is not uncommon.  That is the sad thing.  Again I emphasize, this is the reason that the US is distancing itself from world organizations and Europe.  If people truly believe this over there, then we have a complete different view of history and a completely different view of morality and what is right.  If that is the case, then we shouldnt devote our resources to an organization that doesnt share our views on morality and what is right.

Yeah as the Americans are known for their changing of history...usually in their favor...

Europe is way to weak for the moment to exist "alone".

but doesnt that mean Europe needs an organization like the EU to become stronger?  Why did the French people vote against it?  Is it more economical reasons or that you dont like the political leaders of the EU? 

My other question is what does good relationships with the US have to do with the existence of an EU?  Cant you have both? 

Apperantly not ..that's what the dutch politicians state also: we need this EU to be able to work together on crime/terrorisme....like we are not doing that now...
Sure I'm pro EU but not with this constitution, and yes i believe the EU will be a good thing for this world as long as they stick to their (known) goals.




Anyway...it's my time to vote today, and ofcourse i will vote against it...not that it matters alot since our government already stated that this referendum will not be binding...but atleast they know what the ppl want...although that doesn't make a diffrence either since the ppl didn't want this government either...and yet they sove it down our throaths..

Reasons why I'm against it...it's not a complete constitution, so if we say yes to this then we say yes to everything else they want to add. Second Holland will loose it's "power" on decisions made, so we will be a handpuppet (with our current primeminister we already are...but he isn't here to stay and this constitution is) and also there are not sufficiant rules about animalrights, sure there are some great rules but still this is something that should be more complete when you're making a constitution in the 21st century! Also living in a country like Holland (where we do things most other countries reject like abortion, gay marriages, permitting the use of softdrugs etc) things might change and not for the better. Since none of the politicians could make me believe otherwise and that things like these will not be effected by the EU constitution i vote against it. Let them come up with a constitution that is fit for the 21st century and i will give my support.