Iran Leader calls for Israel's destruction

[Prometheus]

Wait there Nesquick, back that freight train up, cause your tiring to ship a load of crap all over the place!!

I went to about 500 meters of Gaza. If i entered, i would have been murdered, just because I'm Jew. It?s strictly forbidden to enter Gaza. There are checkpoints, because Gaza is dangerous. The impression I had it that it was like a frontier between the democratic world and the barbarian one.

If I were to walk down any street in Detroit with a sign ?I hate Niggers? I would be murdered. Would you walk down a street in Gaza with a big Israeli flag on your ass?

So wearing an Israeli flag is equivilant to wearing a sign saying "I hate Niggers."? I'll assume that you didn't think about this analogy much before you wrote it.?

Under the latter, it is the person's personal identity and ethnicity that is offensive.? Under the former, it is the person offending other cultures which is offensive.

it has the same equalivancy for teh point being made that if you treate them like they are less then they will resent you for what you appear to be. you dont make yourself a target to any group that could be willing to kil you for showing that you are totaly agnist them. so it works out just fine

[jarmo]

Never did Jesus Christ say anything about killing gays. On the contrary, he said treat others as you would have them treat you. If somebody says they want to see all gay people dead, they can not possibly be Christian. When you say "you can find Christian people who'd like to see all gay people dead," that's SLANDER.

Maybe I should refresh your memory of what I actually said:

Some extremists hide behind religion to make their beliefs seem more "legit". They take a book and interpret it one way so they can spread their hatred to others.

They present themselves as Christian, Muslim or whatever, but they're nothing but an extremist hiding behind a religion.


Now, go on and play with the words again to make it seem like it's slander. You're obviously enjoying every little dig you can take at me even if it means making up ridiculous assumptions about what I said.

It's not the first time I get attacked for being "un-Christian" by a conservative on this board. What's next??


Oh, and I'm done with you for this time. A person who refers to us as the "HTGTH Gestapo" should use the word slander with caution.




/jarmo

[POPmetal]

Never did Jesus Christ say anything about killing gays. On the contrary, he said treat others as you would have them treat you. If somebody says they want to see all gay people dead, they can not possibly be Christian. When you say "you can find Christian people who'd like to see all gay people dead," that's SLANDER.

Maybe I should refresh your memory of what I actually said:

Some extremists hide behind religion to make their beliefs seem more "legit". They take a book and interpret it one way so they can spread their hatred to others.

They present themselves as Christian, Muslim or whatever, but they're nothing but an extremist hiding behind a religion.


Now, go on and play with the words again to make it seem like it's slander. You're obviously enjoying every little dig you can take at me even if it means making up ridiculous assumptions about what I said.

What you said was very clear:

I'm also sure you can find Christian people who'd like to see all gay people dead, but that doesn't mean all Christian people are like that.

There's no need to play with your words to make it look like slander. Wanting to see a particular group of people dead is directly opposed to what Christianity stands for. There are no "Christian" people who want to see gay people dead.

It's not the first time I get attacked for being "un-Christian" by a conservative on this board. What's next??

I never attacked you for being "un-Christian" I could care less if you're Christian or not. Just don't make false allegations against Christianity.

Oh, and I'm done with you for this time. A person who refers to us as the "HTGTH Gestapo" should use the word slander with caution.

You sound like a broken record, but when I said that, I said it for a reason. I made that comment on day when you went on a rampage banning or threatening to ban right of center people. You implied things about me that weren't true, and then threatened to ban me for making a lighthearted joke about how extreme SLC and Cindy Sheehan were.

[Prometheus]

Never did Jesus Christ say anything about killing gays. On the contrary, he said treat others as you would have them treat you. If somebody says they want to see all gay people dead, they can not possibly be Christian. When you say "you can find Christian people who'd like to see all gay people dead," that's SLANDER.

Maybe I should refresh your memory of what I actually said:

Some extremists hide behind religion to make their beliefs seem more "legit". They take a book and interpret it one way so they can spread their hatred to others.

They present themselves as Christian, Muslim or whatever, but they're nothing but an extremist hiding behind a religion.


Now, go on and play with the words again to make it seem like it's slander. You're obviously enjoying every little dig you can take at me even if it means making up ridiculous assumptions about what I said.

What you said was very clear:

I'm also sure you can find Christian people who'd like to see all gay people dead, but that doesn't mean all Christian people are like that.

There's no need to play with your words to make it look like slander. Wanting to see a particular group of people dead is directly opposed to what Christianity stands for. There are no "Christian" people who want to see gay people dead.

It's not the first time I get attacked for being "un-Christian" by a conservative on this board. What's next??

I never attacked you for being "un-Christian" I could care less if you're Christian or not. Just don't make false allegations against Christianity.

Oh, and I'm done with you for this time. A person who refers to us as the "HTGTH Gestapo" should use the word slander with caution.

You sound like a broken record, but when I said that, I said it for a reason. I made that comment on day when you went on a rampage banning or threatening to ban right of center people. You implied things about me that weren't true, and then threatened to ban me for making a lighthearted joke about how extreme SLC and Cindy Sheehan were.

ok not like this is about me or anything but........... are you saying that his statement is untrue? what about abortion doctors..... were they not killed by christians? does that not poke a whole in your sinking ship? all you have accomplised in this diatribe is to further widen the gap between the right and the left on this board. considering walk and myself actualy had a nice conversation on the board today........ and you come off moronic when you make an statement that to kill is unchristian, when christians in modren times have killed for their beleifs..........wake up..... drink some coffee... and if your out of coffee ill even send ya some..... cause seriously you had to be sleeping on that one

[POPmetal]

Never did Jesus Christ say anything about killing gays. On the contrary, he said treat others as you would have them treat you. If somebody says they want to see all gay people dead, they can not possibly be Christian. When you say "you can find Christian people who'd like to see all gay people dead," that's SLANDER.

Maybe I should refresh your memory of what I actually said:

Some extremists hide behind religion to make their beliefs seem more "legit". They take a book and interpret it one way so they can spread their hatred to others.

They present themselves as Christian, Muslim or whatever, but they're nothing but an extremist hiding behind a religion.


Now, go on and play with the words again to make it seem like it's slander. You're obviously enjoying every little dig you can take at me even if it means making up ridiculous assumptions about what I said.

What you said was very clear:

I'm also sure you can find Christian people who'd like to see all gay people dead, but that doesn't mean all Christian people are like that.

There's no need to play with your words to make it look like slander. Wanting to see a particular group of people dead is directly opposed to what Christianity stands for. There are no "Christian" people who want to see gay people dead.

It's not the first time I get attacked for being "un-Christian" by a conservative on this board. What's next??

I never attacked you for being "un-Christian" I could care less if you're Christian or not. Just don't make false allegations against Christianity.

Oh, and I'm done with you for this time. A person who refers to us as the "HTGTH Gestapo" should use the word slander with caution.

You sound like a broken record, but when I said that, I said it for a reason. I made that comment on day when you went on a rampage banning or threatening to ban right of center people. You implied things about me that weren't true, and then threatened to ban me for making a lighthearted joke about how extreme SLC and Cindy Sheehan were.

ok not like this is about me or anything but........... are you saying that his statement is untrue? what about abortion doctors..... were they not killed by christians? does that not poke a whole in your sinking ship? all you have accomplised in this diatribe is to further widen the gap between the right and the left on this board. considering walk and myself actualy had a nice conversation on the board today........ and you come off moronic when you make an statement that to kill is unchristian, when christians in modren times have killed for their beleifs..........wake up..... drink some coffee... and if your out of coffee ill even send ya some..... cause seriously you had to be sleeping on that one

There are no Christian teachings that condone the killing of abortion doctors. The people who do that are loonies, they are not "Chrisitan." Is Hitler's national socialist party socialist It's unbelievable to what lengths you people will go to pigeonhole Christians? Talk about looking "moronic"?

[Prometheus]

BAH foolishness

[Rain]

Never did Jesus Christ say anything about killing gays. On the contrary, he said treat others as you would have them treat you. If somebody says they want to see all gay people dead, they can not possibly be Christian. When you say "you can find Christian people who'd like to see all gay people dead," that's SLANDER.

Maybe I should refresh your memory of what I actually said:

Some extremists hide behind religion to make their beliefs seem more "legit". They take a book and interpret it one way so they can spread their hatred to others.

They present themselves as Christian, Muslim or whatever, but they're nothing but an extremist hiding behind a religion.


Now, go on and play with the words again to make it seem like it's slander. You're obviously enjoying every little dig you can take at me even if it means making up ridiculous assumptions about what I said.

What you said was very clear:

I'm also sure you can find Christian people who'd like to see all gay people dead, but that doesn't mean all Christian people are like that.

There's no need to play with your words to make it look like slander. Wanting to see a particular group of people dead is directly opposed to what Christianity stands for. There are no "Christian" people who want to see gay people dead.

It's not the first time I get attacked for being "un-Christian" by a conservative on this board. What's next??

I never attacked you for being "un-Christian" I could care less if you're Christian or not. Just don't make false allegations against Christianity.

Oh, and I'm done with you for this time. A person who refers to us as the "HTGTH Gestapo" should use the word slander with caution.

You sound like a broken record, but when I said that, I said it for a reason. I made that comment on day when you went on a rampage banning or threatening to ban right of center people. You implied things about me that weren't true, and then threatened to ban me for making a lighthearted joke about how extreme SLC and Cindy Sheehan were.

ok not like this is about me or anything but........... are you saying that his statement is untrue? what about abortion doctors..... were they not killed by christians? does that not poke a whole in your sinking ship? all you have accomplised in this diatribe is to further widen the gap between the right and the left on this board. considering walk and myself actualy had a nice conversation on the board today........ and you come off moronic when you make an statement that to kill is unchristian, when christians in modren times have killed for their beleifs..........wake up..... drink some coffee... and if your out of coffee ill even send ya some..... cause seriously you had to be sleeping on that one

There are no Christian teachings that condone the killing of abortion doctors. The people who do that are loonies, they are not "Chrisitan." Is Hitler's national socialist party socialist It's unbelievable to what lengths you people will go to pigeonhole Christians? Talk about looking "moronic"?

If you choose that path, Al Quaida has nothing to do with islam either !
No christians teachings condone killing of abortion doctors or even the crusades .... but these acts are and were done by chritians and in the name of god ! Jihad is no different.

[POPmetal]

If you choose that path, Al Quaida has nothing to do with islam either !
No christians teachings condone killing of abortion doctors or even the crusades .... but these acts are and were done by chritians and in the name of god ! Jihad is no different.

Not to say that Al Qaeda does not twist the meaning of the Muslim religion, but why don't you consider some of the revelations received by Muhammad:

"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:4)

?Jihad (holy fighting in Allah?s Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims), though you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and like a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not.? (Koran, 2:216)

?The Believers said: ?This is what Allah and his Messenger promised us.? It added to their faith, obedience, and submission. Among the Believers are men who have been true to their covenant with Allah and have gone out for Jihad (holy fighting). Some have completed their vow to extreme (and have been martyred) fighting and dying in His Cause, and some are waiting, prepared for death in battle.? (Koran, 33:22)

?Let those who fight in the Cause of Allah sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the Cause of Allah, whether he is slain or gets victory?soon shall We give him a great reward.? (Koran, 4:74)


Jesus never said His followers should kill people who preform abortions, or? anyone for that matter. In fact, in the Old Testament, there were laws like in the Koran about killing your enemies, and Jesus' new covenant to love your enemies overrode?them and changed all of that.

Nice try but FALSE ANALOGY.

[lastroots]

Hey popmetal,

nice, but not correct. What you cited is one of about 800 versions of Qur'an interpretation. Two of them are approved in the whole musilm world, the rest only by small groups.

The problem is that in the arabian language (which I do study) there are sometimes over 20 different options how to vocalize a word. Have a look at a Arabian Dictionary (I suggest the one by Hans Wehr, published via Librairie Du Liban 1977) and you'll see. A completely original vocalized version of the Qur'an does not exist.

So everyone is free to read into it what he wants. And overall translations are worthless in most cases.

/lastroots

[lastroots]

What I forgot:

"Jihad" basically means "struggle", in this special meaning "struggle for islam". In the Qur'an there are two versions of Jihad, the small one (struggle for personal freedom, freedom of mind & soul) and the big one (struggle in war), and in war means in war. It allows a muslim to kill some?ne who thrteatenbs him or his religion IN WAR. Not in peace. So it doesn't say anything that any other religion or even soldier's handbook doesn't say as well.

Al-Quaida is an ideology which as nearly nothing to do with the religion of Islam.


/lastroots

[Sakib]

What I forgot:

"Jihad" basically means "struggle", in this special meaning "struggle for islam". In the Qur'an there are two versions of Jihad, the small one (struggle for personal freedom, freedom of mind & soul) and the big one (struggle in war), and in war means in war. It allows a muslim to kill some?ne who thrteatenbs him or his religion IN WAR. Not in peace. So it doesn't say anything that any other religion or even soldier's handbook doesn't say as well.

Al-Quaida is an ideology which as nearly nothing to do with the religion of Islam.


/lastroots

thank you. that was a great post. There's only one true translation of the qur'an. read it. its readily available and you yourselves will see half what Al-Qaeda do is bullshit. what pissed me off is the London bombings and the news reporters and in studio guys were saying they admitted it on their Islamic website. its anything but islamic. btw, why dont they tell us the link if they're telling the truth???

[Prometheus]

Lets talk pure understanding in the bible. From what you are saying, about the Qur'an then the world must have been made over night was it? and 6 days total all creatures that exist on earth was created..... or is this just a "twisted analogy"? Many times on this board it has been discussed about preceptional understanding of all things spiritual. All teachings are open to interpertation, if one group uses their beleifs to bomb and kill then it has to be wrong and it has to be Muslim correct? or at least someone coming for a muslim ideal who was caried into a false understanding by deception and trickery? im guessing you can agree to that


Well as it ahs been shown several times you dont have to be muslim to do bombings or killings, happens in the west and they are christian..... but they cant be christian because they are using unchristian Ideals...... so muslims cant be muslim becasue they are acting un muslim....... but no they are muslim according to you because of provisons of murder in the Qur'an....... your interpertation of it at least. well if that is only an interpertation, then based on your idea you have put forward any christian can still be christian and commit these crimes, because they feel that they are making the sacrafice to help cleanse mankind by offering their soul unto God so our sins will be forgotten. As they beleive to do this work for god is what is needed.

answer me this question

"What makes truth?"

[lastroots]

At first, the comparison between the bible and the qur'an is very far stretched. Both religions are basically against crime and violence. But from my catholic theology studies I remenber that, yes, a christian who commits a crime can still be a christian since everyone has to make his own decisions in believing and in behaving.

According to that theory (if I remember right from the 2. Vatican Concile), hell is empty because everyone who did something wrong in his live has the chance to give his live to god after he died.

I personally don't believe things like that, but that's what's the "official" christian believe. So a muslim who commits crimes can still be a muslim, even though the proper belief in Islam is that you loose your connection to god if you play against the rules.

Explained good enough?
If there are any more questins, just ask.

/lastroots

[the dirt]

Hey popmetal,

nice, but not correct. What you cited is one of about 800 versions of Qur'an interpretation. Two of them are approved in the whole musilm world, the rest only by small groups.

The problem is that in the arabian language (which I do study) there are sometimes over 20 different options how to vocalize a word. Have a look at a Arabian Dictionary (I suggest the one by Hans Wehr, published via Librairie Du Liban 1977) and you'll see. A completely original vocalized version of the Qur'an does not exist.

So everyone is free to read into it what he wants. And overall translations are worthless in most cases.

/lastroots

What you're saying here, though, is that any way people can "vocalize" the words can be correct...

Who's to say one vocalization is right and the other isn't?

[lastroots]

Noboday knows the complete right vocalisation for the reason I explained earlier. But out of the context there are a few versions which can make sense. As I said there are only two of trhem which are overly accepted and are the official interpretations for all muslims, put together by theologists who did a good job imo.

The unaccepted versions are often such which kinda force violent meanings out of the book. Not all of course, but those used by the extemists.

To make you better understand. The two versions I told you of are "accepted", and those who accept them (which is the greatest majority of all muslims) don't even think about vocalizing it different.


/lastroots

[Rain]

Thank you very much lastroots !  Someone like you was really needed in this thread ! 

[POPmetal]

Thank you very much lastroots !? Someone like you was really needed in this thread !?

There are no vocalizations or versions in which Jesus said you should kill anyone, so what you did was still a false analogy:

http://onegoodmove.org/fallacy/falsean.htm

[POPmetal]

By the way "Kampf" also means "struggle." How ironic is that in light of Mr. Ahmadinejad's comments.

[lastroots]

Ever thought of the fact that there are different words for "struggle" in Arab / Farsi? And that they mean different things when translated. For example, the struggle of war in Arab is "harb" or "harbun", if you take the qur'anic vocalization.

/lastroots

[Rain]

Thank you very much lastroots !? Someone like you was really needed in this thread !?

There are no vocalizations or versions in which Jesus said you should kill anyone, so what you did was still a false analogy.

Blahblahbla I want to be right about something .... ?

False analogy ... I never talked about Jesus, Did I ? I love jesus teachings alright ok ! I talked about Christians (they were the one in the crusades weren't they ?) - and if I remember right on sundays at the Church christians use to read something that was called ... The Bible ... an holy book for sure that includes if my memory serves me right - The old Testament.