Everything gets deleted

[m_rated96]

Nice, lump in my argument that owned you and speficially addressed and replied to your last post with my previous argument that you couldnt rebutt. Soild man. True arguing.

Oh and look at you. You can't attack the argument so you attack the arguer, on a point irrelevant to the argument. I called you egotistical in passing and now its 60% of your reply? Did it hurt?
Look, you can say you don't LIKE something. But don't go criticisizing or suggesting changes about things you don't understand. I don't like britney, but I don't ask her to change because I don't understand her. Instead, I listen to slash. So go to some other site douchebag.

Oh you would rather have me addressing something other than your"personal slur+argument+personal slur+ i win"- way of getting anything said?
If so...you need to try a little harder:

You base your entire argument on assumption that guy you are arguing with " doesn't understand how a forum works"
Not this particular forum, but a forum. Thats the long and short of your " i win!" post right there.
That's the entire frame work you got when "speficially adresing and replying" to my post:P

Then when I don't bother giving a proper reply to that you enter the "I PAWN JOO NOOB" mode, and you  proceed to dissing !!MY!! way of arguing?
That's equivalent to posting a picture of a pile of pubic hair in some random thread and then calling everyone idiots cause they don't adress your point.The point being a pile of pubic hair.

Next time, try posting even twice to a thread  you disagree with before starting to mention how you are PWNING people and winning in every post you make. It's like getting a free credibility boost.

Oh, and you are asking if someone you assume is egotistical got hurt by you callin him egotistical. Seriously?

Look, you can say you don't LIKE something. But don't go criticisizing or suggesting changes about things you don't understand.

That' a very immortal thing  to say really
Also,
You feel it's ok to settle with being totally unconstructive and just  yelling "I Don't Like This!!" from bushes randomly, instead of "I don't like this. Actually it annoyes me. Let me try to explain why!""Seriously?


If it so pleases you:

You dont understand how a forum works! Go away!If there is a change that somebody gets insulted over what you just posted, it should be deleted.

I am very sorry sir, but iI feel like  I do understand how a forum works, and I dont plan to go away. When it comes to your 4 out of 100000 -insights, pls check reply #18. Why the fuck do you keep writing posts that you feel should be deleted by the way? There is a change that I ight get ever so insulted by "moron" and whatnot!
You happy now? Oh my fucking god, I tore your argument to pieces right there. I both PWN and win so much that it just gave me an erection.

You are attacking nothing to do with what Im saying you loser. Your clutching at my full-stops and my tag lines!

Here is the point: You are bitching and moaning about the moderating of this site. The moderating of this site made it good. You are some puny little member of this forum. Now you expect people to risk making the site not good by changing the moderation style to make you happy.

THAT is why I call you egotistical. It was a summary for you not acknowledging anything other than ur own useless little feelings. If you understood how this forum works, you wouldn't be bitching about moderating, you'd be bitching about something more relevant; like your lack of intelligence.

Can't argue with "the point"? Didn't think so. Now fuck off

[LeftToDecay]

You are attacking nothing to do with what Im saying you loser. Your clutching at my full-stops and my tag lines!

Here is the point: You are bitching and moaning about the moderating of this site. The moderating of this site made it good. You are some puny little member of this forum. Now you expect people to risk making the site not good by changing the moderation style to make you happy.

Can't argue with "the point"? Didn't think so. Now fuck off

Gotta love your attitude.
Puny little members are what forms the community. Overall quality of community and the discussion it creates  is what makes the forum good or bad. That hard on I  mentioned(It sounds like you don't bother reading  through the posts you reply to  so the "What hard on???" - reaction you are having  atm isn't surprising) is dying very quickly here when I try to imagine you trying  to run  forum or being a moderator to one. 

It's the community that makes a forum good or bad.
It's true moderation has lots of effect on what sort of a community and  what sort of posters stick around. So does millions of other things. I sticked around cause I loved the lay out and total lack of banners. It makes this site look neat ad professional even in late 00's,and it certainly did so in late 90's. I'm guessing tons of others did just that too.
I'm guessing more sticked around because of that than the privilege of not being sure if a post by them, or they guy they dislike, gets deleted because it contains an opinion that is too negative, or too non supportive.  Or because an article that is deemed too negative, or even discussion about it, is furiously guarded from popping up on this forum.


Like I said in a post you apparently just quoted without reading, none of your posts follows your own bullshit infested guidelines, nor the official rules of this forum. If we went by your own standards, they should be deleted.
SO again, why the fuck do you keep posting them? What does failing to live by your own "rules" long enough to finish the post where you state them make you look like?

[lynn1961]

You are attacking nothing to do with what Im saying you loser. Your clutching at my full-stops and my tag lines!

Here is the point: You are bitching and moaning about the moderating of this site. The moderating of this site made it good. You are some puny little member of this forum. Now you expect people to risk making the site not good by changing the moderation style to make you happy.

THAT is why I call you egotistical. It was a summary for you not acknowledging anything other than ur own useless little feelings. If you understood how this forum works, you wouldn't be bitching about moderating, you'd be bitching about something more relevant; like your lack of intelligence.

Can't argue with "the point"? Didn't think so. Now fuck off

This is an example, right here, of someone who's posts need to be moderated and deleted.  Just sayin'.......

[kaasupoltin]

I have seen good criticism disappear here.. altough mostly in GN'R section.

I'm sure. It probably turned "good and constructive" as soon as it was removed.....



/jarmo

No, it was good and constructive before it got removed. It was just negative.

"Why are you here if you don't support the band?"

In my opinion you can support a band, be a real fan, even though you have something negative to say about it. But everyone has their own limits.

[jarmo]

Something negative is way different than mostly negative.


People are so used to getting what they want when they want it, when it doesn't happen, they don't know what to do.


The amusing thing is seeing people think they somehow have the right to come here and "order" me to change the place to fit their needs.

Times change but they don't. Same posts year after year.


Smart asses who know our rules, then post shit they know will get removed so that they ca continue with the "why are all posts removed" act.





/jarmo

[kaasupoltin]

Yes I've been here for many years and I know what you're talking about.

But I also think you, and moderators too, should take some criticism seriously and try to learn from it. 'Cause some of it is pretty good (and of course some of it goes straight out the window). I know it's not my or anyone elses right to come here and complain and demand you to change things and rules, but that's how I think a message board works best; admin(s) listen to other users and what they got to say. I'm not talking about this deleting policy only.

Anyway, this is the best GN'R board. Better to have strict rules than no rules at all.

[lynn1961]

^^  Great post.  I think you said it well. 

[norway]

Freedom of speech Axl, remember?

Yeah, but there is also a thing called freedom of expression which Jarmo practice.

Just look at the bile that gets posted on the youtube comments where there is no control, not just GN'R but for anything. I dont even scroll down for the comments, I despair for the human race whenever I do.

I agree entirely, I'm ok with the trade-off.

Scandinavians are raising the level of discussion on the internet and maintain whats noble left in this world

[daviebuckethead]

the only thing i can contribute, in term of the moderation and censorship on this site (and hopefullly, i'm fairly objective), is that i've never used so many other forums until the censorship began, i didn't need to.

everything i could ever want to know was on htgth. That isn't the case anymore. i agree with some form of censorship, no posting links etc. BUT....there are some interesting topics for discussion that are simply off limits here, and i find that to the detriment of the board and the community as a whole

I would never tell anyone to f*** off to another board, but there are others out there that have sensible discussion without the crazy nonsense posted at mygnr (which i think is a good source of info, and rumour btw).

a good example for me is gnr evolution.

i think discussion is a good thing....but what do i know

[jarmo]

i think discussion is a good thing....

Even when the whole discussion is a product of bullshit?

Something that didn't happen or something that's not accurate?


That's what many "interesting" discussions are.

Somebody says something negative and/or sensationalist in its nature about GN'R and it's labeled as "the truth" and "interesting"....





/jarmo

[pilferk]

Something negative is way different than mostly negative.


People are so used to getting what they want when they want it, when it doesn't happen, they don't know what to do.


The amusing thing is seeing people think they somehow have the right to come here and "order" me to change the place to fit their needs.

Times change but they don't. Same posts year after year.


Smart asses who know our rules, then post shit they know will get removed so that they ca continue with the "why are all posts removed" act.



/jarmo

And what gets me is the people that don't "get it".

Your yard, your rules.

If enough people don't like the rules, everyone leaves, and you're left alone with your ball and no one to play with (just humor the analogy, OK?  I'm not insinuating you like to play with us, literally).  Essentially, the site and community would die.

But, apparently, not "enough" people feel that way....if they did, the place would be a ghost town.  I've seen a good number of GnR forums die EXACTLY that kind of death over the years.  Hell, I've seen a good number of FORUMS die that kind of death.

But so far, HTGTH seems to be doing just fine.  I mean, I don't see the exact traffic numbers, so I'm only guessing by the number of posts and how active the threads are, but it seems like there are plenty of people here who don't mind the rules and moderation style.  If we want to go talk about things that are "verboten" around here, a whole shitload of us respect our "host" enough to take those discussions to other places....more willing to allow those kinds of discussions.  It's really as simple as that.

People try to make it into more, and I don't know why.  I guess they "love" the web site addy so much they feel it should be run a specific way...ie: the way they want it run.  Or maybe they're actually the facist nazi's they accuse the mods of being...I don't know. 

The long and short of it is: If you don't like the way the forum is modded, leave.  Get your friends to leave.  Get everyone you talk to to leave.  And go somewhere else.  Then this place will "die" (though I'd bet it's modded the exact same way until the day jarmo "shuts the lights off") and wherever the "masses" decide to go will prosper. And, better yet, you'll get to say to everyone "Hey, I was RIGHT!!!".   So far, though...I don't see a huge number of people jumping ship....which is pretty much proof positive that this isn't enough of an issue to show up on MOST poster's radar.

See the circular nature of the "bitching" argument?

[m_rated96]

It's the community that makes a forum good or bad.
It's true moderation has lots of effect on what sort of a community and  what sort of posters stick around. So does millions of other things. I sticked around cause I loved the lay out and total lack of banners. It makes this site look neat ad professional even in late 00's,and it certainly did so in late 90's. I'm guessing tons of others did just that too.
I'm guessing more sticked around because of that than the privilege of not being sure if a post by them, or they guy they dislike, gets deleted because it contains an opinion that is too negative, or too non supportive.  Or because an article that is deemed too negative, or even discussion about it, is furiously guarded from popping up on this forum.

Read pilferk's post . He sums up everything down to a t. Everything about this forum is what makes it good. So, let me give you a taste your own bullshit. I hate the layout.
I start a thread and say "hey the layout sucks! Change it!"
Jarmo says "No!"
Me, "nobody ever listens to my opinion. I'm so important, you should listen to me! look at the 20 other people who agree with me!"

Shut up me, everybody says. If everbody hated the layout enough for it to be worth Jarmo changing, everybody would, well, slowly leave and go to a forum with a different layout. If they just dislike it a little bit, but it doesn't affect them coming here, so it's not worth Jarmo changing.

A forum is a dictatorship, but the leader has an incentive to treat his people well, because otherwise, they will leave his dicatatorship with 0 repurcussions; that's why and how it works. This isn't some sort of democracy where everybodies opinion will be considered. It's a fucking forum! Don't shout and yell, you have a choice to be here. So accept thats how it works and bitch about something else

Like I said in a post you apparently just quoted without reading, none of your posts follows your own bullshit infested guidelines, nor the official rules of this forum. If we went by your own standards, they should be deleted.
SO again, why the fuck do you keep posting them? What does failing to live by your own "rules" long enough to finish the post where you state them make you look like?

Trying to find a hole in my argument? So cute! Did you read arguing 101 and now you're trying to apply it?
Did I ever say STOP spamming? No. I don't run this site, I can post what I want and Jarmo will delete or ban me if he thinks it's spam. He clearly doesn't because he probably is as sick of morons like you as I am. Spam all you want, it'll just get you deleted or banned. I'm not telling you to stop. I'm just saying don't complain. Go study your book a little harder.

My point is, don't complain "Everything gets deleted" - suggest, "maybe we could be lighter on moderation," "maybe the layout could be blue"
And when he doesn't listen to your suggestion thats been "suggested" 20 times before, quit suggesting it. This thread should seriously be in dead horse.

Man, your not going to win this argument on any level, stop wasting my time. Be a little more mature and accept that you didn't think through what you were saying.

You're welcome!

[LeftToDecay]

The long and short of it is: If you don't like the way the forum is modded, leave.  Get your friends to leave.  Get everyone you talk to to leave.  And go somewhere else.

Way forum is modded (or to be more specific, the irritating amount of control over what people can say and read in here) isn't everything there is to it.
Somehow you managed to make it sound like HTGTH was some sort of isolated  hunting lodge in middle of Alps requiring  2 months of epic dangerous journeying to arrive or leave.
It's internet. For most people leaving and returning  a forum are minor concepts one mouse click away, instead of some large emorage-infested decisions involving hand on Bible oaths and account deletion and whatnot.

Of course people want to bitch about flaws they feel are present in  forums they like or care about.
In that sense, "go somewhere else!!" is an odd comeback here.
If I didn't like it here, why the fuck would I bother caring enough about what I feel is odd feats in moderation to bitch about it?

[LeftToDecay]

Everything about this forum is what makes it good. So, let me give you a taste your own bullshit. I hate the layout.
I start a thread and say "hey the layout sucks! Change it!"
Jarmo says "No!"
Me, "nobody ever listens to my opinion. I'm so important, you should listen to me! look at the 20 other people who agree with me!"
Shut up me, everybody says.

You are terrible  at tasting flavors, if that is the closest you can get to my bullshit.
If you have to try to put words in mouths of "everybody" and me, atleas try to use ones that even somehow resemble what has been said

If everbody hated the layout enough for it to be worth Jarmo changing, everybody would, well, slowly leave and go to a forum with a different layout. If they just dislike it a little bit, but it doesn't affect them coming here, so it's not worth Jarmo changing.

That's one huge fucking "IF" if ever there was one.
You can't use words like " everybody" when talking about this stuff really. No admin or mod can run a site in a manner that  pleases everybody. If you run a community forum for GNR fans  that has,say, more than 1000 active users you are pretty much guaranteed to have people who are pissed off about thing Y and people who are madly in love with thing Y. "Everybody" will never leave or stay.

If there are  people who like the site as a whole, but "dislike the layout a bit"  why shouldn't they,say, head for a section called Administration&feedback and post their opinion there?
After all, feedback is the reason for entire section exists and all, right?

Oh but I forgot, since  it is a choice to be here, instead of voicing their opinions they should " accept how it works"and " bitch about something else" is that it?
"Why criticize?!" has been your point since you and your " i win lolz" routines  entered this thread.
It's not like anything good can ever come from posts and threads  that criticize, right?  If something annoyed you it' s better to remain silent about it than voice it out and attempt to create discussion about it??

It's not as much  about "JARMO U NEED TO CHANGE THIS NOW 4 ME" as much as creating discussion. If you wanna feel all optimistic, you can always hope or believe this discussion matters somehow. Most likely it doesn't.
Basically,people like to see what other people think about stuff they are into. Or about stuff that  pisses them off. Amazing huh?

My point is, don't complain "Everything gets deleted" - suggest, "maybe we could be lighter on moderation,"

Ahh so now your point is general tone of the bitching and how it fails to please you?
Well, atleast you've gone a long way from this:

Don't argue with the moderation!

Or this:

don't go criticisizing or suggesting changes about things you don't understand.

You are improving my friend.

[LeftToDecay]

Did I ever say STOP spamming? No. I don't run this site, I can post what I want and Jarmo will delete or ban me if he thinks it's spam. He clearly doesn't because he probably is as sick of morons like you as I am.

It sounds like you misunderstood my point. That,  or  the concept of spam. 

You don't live like you preach. Even long enough to finish a single post on an Internet forum. 
Do you understand that?

....but if somebody is going to be offended by it its better to piss 1 person off (you) by deleting it, then 4 potential people out of the 1000000 that are here

You can't stand  the fact I whine about some ways this site is ran.
When voicing this, you can't manage a single fucking paragraph without some sort of an insult.
There's a  good change I get insulted by these continuous insults! Wow! Yet, you keep filling your posts with them.
- - > You are making posts you feel should be better deleted.

Oh but wait,
"it' not like I run this site lol. Not my decision. While trying to get my ever changing point across I  continuously  violate forum rules and my own " this is how mod should work"  guidelines but thats not  a prob  for me  cuz i'm not a mod. You are a moron, I win.

You don't see what that makes you?
Let me give you an example, as is the popular habit here in HTGTH.

- - -
LTD and his good personal friend, Mrated96 are at park. They eat ice cream and watch the park maintainer hard at work.
There is a sign " Don't LITTER!" next to them.

LTD: Maintainer sometimes pisses me off. You have to wipe your fucking feet when coming here now. It's  a park ffs! Besides little littering is oddly liberating imo.
Mrated96: His park. His rules. Stop complaining. Go away.  He's keeping park clean.  You are a moron. I win.
LTD:.Sure is great  view tho.
Mrated96 You are a moron. People come here cuz rules R so good.
I totally ran a park once. I understand that keeping it clean is important.
LTD :O
Mrated96 *throws ice cream paper on ground and walks away*
LTD: Dude did you just litter??
Mrated96: Dude if its a prob  it's maintainer's prob not mine. I win again.

- - -

[pilferk]

Way forum is modded (or to be more specific, the irritating amount of control over what people can say and read in here) isn't everything there is to it.
Somehow you managed to make it sound like HTGTH was some sort of isolated  hunting lodge in middle of Alps requiring  2 months of epic dangerous journeying to arrive or leave.
It's internet. For most people leaving and returning  a forum are minor concepts one mouse click away, instead of some large emorage-infested decisions involving hand on Bible oaths and account deletion and whatnot.

No, actually, that's entirely the point.  It's very easy to leave.  It doesn't take much effort at all.  It doesn't take much effort to "go somewhere else" and talk about the things verboten on this forum, either.  But nobody seems to want to do that...they'd rather bitch.  Or, rather, they DO go "somewhere else" and then STILL bitch.  Which just boggles my mind, since it makes zero sense. 

Hint: This might be the best GnR forum (IMHO) but it's not the ONLY GnR forum. 

So, if you don't like the way things are being run...walk away. For awhile or forever.  It's a real simple concept.  Works in all manner of things in life....and if enough people agree with you, the "things" you walk away from fail.  If enough people disagree with you.....they don't.

Vote with your feet (or your clicky finger).

Of course people want to bitch about flaws they feel are present in  forums they like or care about.
In that sense, "go somewhere else!!" is an odd comeback here.
If I didn't like it here, why the fuck would I bother caring enough about what I feel is odd feats in moderation to bitch about it?

The OTHER point is: It doesn't do any good.  Seriously.  It's pointless.  Which is why I don't get why people continue to do it.  Which is why it's NOT an "odd comeback".  It's reality.   The bitching won't accomplish anything, other than maybe provide you with a personal catharsis....something I'm pretty sure is NOT what jarmo's intent in running the forum is.  How much you like or care about the forum, personally, is irrelevant to the discussion.

Either:

a) Obey jarmo's rules when in his yard

or

b) Go play in someone else's yard and stay out of jarmo's.

YOU can try to make it about more than that but, at the end of the day, it's not a grey issue.  It's black and white.  YOU, just like all of us, are here at jarmo's discretion.  HE OWNS THE SITE, lock, stock and barrell.  So you either do what he wants, or leave.   Any other point of view is blatantly wrong.  It IS what it IS.  So embrace reality, accept it or move on to someplace you'll be happier.  Personally, I hope you stay....but if the bit is chaffing you and  you're unhappy, maybe it's time to part company with HTGTH.

Look, I'm not trying to usher you out the door.  That's not my intent at all.  But it seems like you have a warped sense of what this place actually is...which is what YOU think it should be.  It's not.  It's what JARMO thinks it should be.  Period.  End of story.  If you feel you want to provide "feedback", I suppose that's valid.  But when he says, repeatedly, he's heard the SAME feedback and simply doesn't feel the need to take it into account (and he has, on this)...you are left with the same choice I keep putting in your face:  Accept it or move on.  The bitching and arguing is completely and utterly pointless, and won't have ANY effect.

Get it?

Do you think bitching is going to change anything?  Do you think it's productive?  I think the answer is pretty obvious, here......

[pilferk]

If there are  people who like the site as a whole, but "dislike the layout a bit"  why shouldn't they,say, head for a section called Administration&feedback and post their opinion there?
After all, feedback is the reason for entire section exists and all, right?

Likely they should.

And then, when jarmo says "I love the layout and it ain't changing"....end of discussion.

Now you have a choice: Deal with the layout you hate or leave.

Jarmo's made his position on your "issue" known, widely.  Yet people still bitch.

Pointless.

Oh but I forgot, since  it is a choice to be here, instead of voicing their opinions they should " accept how it works"and " bitch about something else" is that it?
"Why criticize?!" has been your point since you and your " i win lolz" routines  entered this thread.
It's not like anything good can ever come from posts and threads  that criticize, right?  If something annoyed you it' s better to remain silent about it than voice it out and attempt to create discussion about it??

It's pointless to continue to bitch, yes.  It's pointless to bring up the same issue, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again when the OWNER of the site, who is ultimately the guy making the decisions, has already made it known that he doesn't value this particular piece of feedback.  Essentially you're left talking to hear yourself talk.  I just don't get that.

So, in that sense, yes...you should accept how it works, move on, and make a decision you're comfortable with: stay and obey the rules or find another "home".

It's not as much  about "JARMO U NEED TO CHANGE THIS NOW 4 ME" as much as creating discussion. If you wanna feel all optimistic, you can always hope or believe this discussion matters somehow. Most likely it doesn't.
Basically,people like to see what other people think about stuff they are into. Or about stuff that  pisses them off. Amazing huh?

Except there is only one person's "opinion" on this issue that matters.

And he's weighed in already, repeatedly.

So, again...what does it accomplish?

[Mr. Redman]

Why didn't m_rated get neg for calling whomever a douchbag in their arguement?

[GypsySoul]

Why didn't m_rated get neg for calling whomever a douchbag in their arguement?

Probably for the same reason you and I aren't mods. 

REAL mods seem to have a code to discern when posters are truly being insulting or spamming or trolling and deserve negative karma as opposed to those of us who whine when someone is called an insulting name in the heat of an argument and we think they deserve negative karma more because the "insulter" is disagreeing with our point of view in the overall argument.

Check out how many threads have whiners calling for negative karma for Jarmo or AdZ or Christos because they used a "bad word" in their reply to some asshole's post. 

[Bitch Slap Rappin]

  I got deleted yesterday but someone in the "Matrix" rebooted me...........