What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?

[freddiebrph]

People also forget the fact that it's "cool" to like certain bands. So obviously they'll sell copies based on that.

It goes up and down.

AC/DC wasn't that cool a few years ago. Classic rock, sure. Cool, not so.

Then comes a time when both the older fans and younger fans (who go by what's cool) like the same band.


In GN'R's case, you got people (even have so called fans) telling everybody who'll listen that the album "isn't as good as Appetite".

Do you think AC/DC's latest one is another Highway To Hell or Back In Black? Hell no.




/jarmo

No offense Jarmo, but sometimes it feels like I'm talking to a Republican about politics when it comes to our conversations about GNR.  Look, we're all here because we're fans, but that doesn't mean that you can't admit that maybe there's the possibility that AC/DC released a better single to promote their album.  I haven't heard the rest of the album so I can't comment on it, but suffice it to say, if you have GNR fans themselves admitting that Chinese Democracy isn't as good as Appetite, doesn't that speak to the album's worthiness of finding a larger audience?  AC/DC has a back catalog where people aren't as interested in newer material, so for Black Ice to do as well as it did speaks to the connection made by fans and their first single.  GNR has three proper albums of original material, if they want to continue the mantra of being a "mega band" they have to release mega hits.  That's how it works, hit singles sell records.  I enjoyed Chinese Democracy when it came out as did most people around here, but unlike others, and so it seems yourself included, I'm a little more open to the idea that perhaps the material itself wasn't as strong as we had all hoped it would be to dominate global sales charts.  There are many other reasons, but for me, releasing the title track was probably the biggest cause in weaker than expected sales.  Most people listened and said, "if that's what took 15 years to make, I'll pass."  It's too bad for them because they're missing out on a great album, but that's the reality. 

People want and expect what they get from AC/DC.  They don't change their formula because that's what they enjoy doing and that's what the fans want.  GNR on the other hand, not only changed the formula but changed pretty much the entire band.  When people know something for its hits like WTTJ, SCOM, NR, Don't Cry, Paradise City, etc. and the band launches itself renewal with the title track off of Chinese Democracy, it isn't congruent and it's harder to accept for the casual listener and fan.  I'm not in the camp or in any position to tell Axl and co. how to make music; they should produce whatever music that drives them and in that sense I applaud their efforts.  But just because their efforts didn't catch fire with the public at large doesn't mean everyone else but the band is to blame.  Personally, I could have cared less if the album sold two million copies or just two copies its first week.  It has no bearing on my personal enjoyment of the work.  Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case for many of the people here, including the person that started this thread.

Cheers,

Andrew

Man, you nailed it here!!!!!  We are all fans of gnr.  But ac/dc just released a better album.  Of course people on a gnr message board are going to make up all kind of reasons for CD not having the same success. my personal favorite "at least axl doesnt Whore himself"  at least they dont "sell out".  The music business is a BUSINESS, if you dont promote, tour, and release music, you dont sell albums.  Maybe AC/DC didnt release a "better album", maybe they just released an album of music that the majority of the fan base as come to expect.  Who knows?  On a personal level, I love CD, but as an Axl fan you kind of feel disapointed because you want him to be as big as he once was. I have never, and will never experince what that feels like. Maybe Axl just had enough of that and is happy just to make his kind of music, not tour, promote, or have hits on the radio. Its his music and his choice.  But please stop saying things like ac/dc or green day shoves their music down peoples throats, that is why it is selling better?  Look, Britney spears music was shoved down my throat as well, and I didnt go buy any of it.  But the 1st time I heard rock and roll train, I knew it was going to be another great album by a great band. and it is!

[Albert S Miller]

Just because the album supposedly didn't meet sales expectations, and by the way who's expectations, or draw in a new crowd of listeners around the globe, or even grab the attention of all the previous fans of the day, I am thrilled just to have this album for my own enjoyment, I waited long and I love what Axl has done for those of us who were really interested.  All of us longtime supporters, well, we got what we wished for, Axl delivered to us an album that meant something to him, and to alot of his current fans old or new, I don't think it really matters to Axl how the rest of the planet interacts with it, for it is possible he is content with just that, and I am content enjoying his work as well.  If there is more to follow at a later time, I will be more than excited to share in that enjoyment, but I am not going to join in here and try to project why things didn't meet the planets expectations, or try to compare them to others, they don't play like the others musically or in life itself, that is why they are Guns n Roses, that is what has drawn me in from the very beginning.  Axl doesn't require the same attention he once endured, I don't feel that is what his expectations were or are at this point, I believe he created an album that for once he enjoyed making his way, on his own time, I thank him, in my personal world, it is what I believe to be some of his most excellent work.  I'm fullfilled....

[jarmo]

We are all fans of gnr.  But ac/dc just released a better album. 

http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/album/23506955/review/23589010/black_ice 3.5 stars
http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/album/24024297/review/24161281/chinese_democracy 4 stars

Not everybody seems to agree with you. 


It's not about "the better album".

Do you honestly think every album that sells better than another is better? Hell no.

Maybe AC/DC didnt release a "better album", maybe they just released an album of music that the majority of the fan base as come to expect. 

You contradict yourself in the same post, but I agree with this.

Buying an AC/DC album isn't a big risk. Just like buying a Nickelback cd. You'll know what to expect.

In AC/DC's case, songs with the words jack, rock, big, black and so on in the titles. 

But please stop saying things like ac/dc or green day shoves their music down peoples throats, that is why it is selling better?  Look, Britney spears music was shoved down my throat as well, and I didnt go buy any of it.  But the 1st time I heard rock and roll train, I knew it was going to be another great album by a great band. and it is!

Just because you didn't buy Britney's new album doesn't mean it didn't work for nobody else.



The thing is, AC/DC is easy to get into. Chinese Democracy might seem weird at first listen, but once you listen to it with an open minded you'll be rewarded.




Regarding Toronto. I'm glad they promoted the album there. Toronto is a cool city.

But Toronto isn't representative to the rest of the world. Unfortunately in this case.

I was in New York the week after the album's release and saw one tiny billboard on a side street....


Went to Best Buy in West Hollywood and the album was second in priority to a Will Smith movie. Meaning, the DVD rack was in a better spot than the GN'R album inside the store.






/jarmo

[gilee7]

I think of it like this: If you had to play ONE song off Chinese Democracy, if we took a poll on every single GNR site on the net, I guarantee you, CD the song isn't anywhere near the top 5.

There is a difference in a great song and a great single.

Even though I really like the track, I agree with you. If I had five songs to play for a person thinking about buying the album, "Chinese Democracy" would be one of the least likely choices.

And I'm also with D on the amount of people who were clueless that the album was out.  Anyone who knows me knows that I'm a huge GNR fan, and you'd be surprised at the number of people who came up to me AFTER the album was released and were like, "So, I hear Chinese  Democracy is finally coming out." And I was like, "Yeah, it came about 3 months ago."

I saw one commerical on TV for the album. I know there were more, but I only saw one. I never saw anything for it any newspapers, and you have to remember that newspapers are dying, so not a lot of people read those anymore anyway. Rock radio played the single a few times, but not much, and not a lot of people listen to the radio anymore nowadays. If you're not a big music fan who frequents music websites or reads Rock magazines, I don't see how you would've known the album was coming out.

Whenever the Best Buy deal expires and other stores can carry the album, I guarantee that they'll be a shitload of people that see it and think that it's new, that it just came out.

[King Axl]

I don't think there is an easy explanation as to why Chinese Democracy hasn't sold well after the initial release last November. I have my own theories, but they've been discussed over and over by a number of members of this board. For me, who'll be 39 in November, it's pretty cut and dried: Chinese Democracy is a good record, but it's not what I'd call Guns N' Roses. Axl should have renamed the band, and let the name Guns N' Roses have its' place in music history. My Guns N' Roses will always be Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, and Steven/Matt.

If anyone's old enough to remember when Joe Perry and Brad Whitford left Aerosmith in 1980, no one gave a flying fuck about that band until those two returned in 1985. And the version of Aerosmith that carried on without them still had Steven Tyler, Tom Hamilton, and Joey Kramer- three of the original members. But no one cared. The same could be said for Black Sabbath when Ozzy left. How about the solo careers of Robert Plant and Jimmy Page after disbanding Led Zeppelin? Van Halen had one of it's most successful tours in recent memory last year when David Lee Roth returned. If Michael Anthony could ever find his way back into Eddie's good graces, Van Halen will be as popular as they were back their glory years, 1978-'84.

The fact is, people remember Guns N' Roses for 'Appetite For Destruction' and the trio of classic songs from that album, the 'Illusion' records, and the tours, which-for better or for worse- were legendary. Most of all, it was about who was in the band. It hasn't helped one bit that there's been practically no stability in the "new GN'R" lineup. Why should anyone get too comfortable with the members of today's GN'R when history shows they probably won't be around too long?

Sorry, but the more I think of 'Chinese Democracy', it really is an Axl Rose solo effort.

[King Axl]

I think of it like this: If you had to play ONE song off Chinese Democracy, if we took a poll on every single GNR site on the net, I guarantee you, CD the song isn't anywhere near the top 5.

There is a difference in a great song and a great single.

Even though I really like the track, I agree with you. If I had five songs to play for a person thinking about buying the album, "Chinese Democracy" would be one of the least likely choices.

And I'm also with D on the amount of people who were clueless that the album was out.  Anyone who knows me knows that I'm a huge GNR fan, and you'd be surprised at the number of people who came up to me AFTER the album was released and were like, "So, I hear Chinese  Democracy is finally coming out." And I was like, "Yeah, it came about 3 months ago."

I saw one commerical on TV for the album. I know there were more, but I only saw one. I never saw anything for it any newspapers, and you have to remember that newspapers are dying, so not a lot of people read those anymore anyway. Rock radio played the single a few times, but not much, and not a lot of people listen to the radio anymore nowadays. If you're not a big music fan who frequents music websites or reads Rock magazines, I don't see how you would've known the album was coming out.

Whenever the Best Buy deal expires and other stores can carry the album, I guarantee that they'll be a shitload of people that see it and think that it's new, that it just came out.

I'd be quick to disagree.

Everyone knows the CD is out. Those who wanted to buy it have already done so.

And what is it with this "Best Buy exclusive" deal running out? There's been no indication that any chain besides Best Buy will ever sell the CD.

[D]

I think we also fall victim to expectations

I mean when u think about it, 600k copies with no hit single, no video and little promotion isn't really that bad.

The Aerosmith analogy doesn't really work cause those Aerosmith albums were absolutely terrible.

My only worries is if they do a second album

U have to wonder how many of those buys came from curious fans. so it will be interesting to see what a 2nd album would sell.

[jarmo]

My Guns N' Roses will always be Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, and Steven/Matt.

Keyword "my".

That band hasn't existed since 1991 and they became more popular after Izzy left. Playing bigger places all over the world.


The whole name issue has been explained to you.


Also, your comparison to a band like Aerosmith and their reunion in the 80s, Done With Mirrors wasn't a hit album. It wasn't until "Walk This Way" and Permanent Vacation (an album on which they used outside song writers) that the band became really popular again.

If you've paid any attention to bands' careers, you'd notice that they pretty much all follow the same pattern. It goes up and down.

One album sells, the next doesn't....

The Rolling Stones is one of the most popular touring bands in the world, managed to sell less copies of their last album in its first week than GN'R. 

Bruce Springteen is releasing albums with his E Street Band. It sold less than GN'R. Wouldn't you think that people rushed out to buy it since it's him and the band he's been with for years?

Not some weird new band nobody cares about.




By your logic that only bands featuring original members can be popular, Metallica shouldn't be the biggest metal band in the world right now...



The whole "who's in the band" issue is probably important to some. But I doubt the casual rock fan cares. If she/he likes a song, they might buy the album. Easy as that.

Do you often come across people asking who plays on the album before deciding to buy it?

I mean when u think about it, 600k copies with no hit single, no video and little promotion isn't really that bad.

Of course not.

As I've kept saying.


Add to that all those who keep repeating the "it's not GN'R" line to anybody who listens.

I wonder if these same people say "it's not the Stones" every time the Rolling Stones records an album without Mick Taylor (also not an original member) and Bill Wyman.




/jarmo

[Juanjay]

According to my Itunes I gave it 22 listens all the way thru and I still feel as I felt before its got 6 great songs and 8 fillers IMHO and my picks will probably be different than anyone else's picks.

I think the lack of a hit single is really what did it. The biggest selling albums of the past couple years had a really good single.

I do think they're promoting CD like they did AFD back in the day. Remember SCOM is what got that album selling big time. Not the first couple singles.

[King Axl]

My Guns N' Roses will always be Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, and Steven/Matt.

Keyword "my".

That band hasn't existed since 1991 and they became more popular after Izzy left. Playing bigger places all over the world.


The whole name issue has been explained to you.


Also, your comparison to a band like Aerosmith and their reunion in the 80s, Done With Mirrors wasn't a hit album. It wasn't until "Walk This Way" and Permanent Vacation (an album on which they used outside song writers) that the band became really popular again.

If you've paid any attention to bands' careers, you'd notice that they pretty much all follow the same pattern. It goes up and down.

One album sells, the next doesn't....

The Rolling Stones is one of the most popular touring bands in the world, managed to sell less copies of their last album in its first week than GN'R. 

Bruce Springteen is releasing albums with his E Street Band. It sold less than GN'R. Wouldn't you think that people rushed out to buy it since it's him and the band he's been with for years?

Not some weird new band nobody cares about.




By your logic that only bands featuring original members can be popular, Metallica shouldn't be the biggest metal band in the world right now...



The whole "who's in the band" issue is probably important to some. But I doubt the casual rock fan cares. If she/he likes a song, they might buy the album. Easy as that.

Do you often come across people asking who plays on the album before deciding to buy it?

I mean when u think about it, 600k copies with no hit single, no video and little promotion isn't really that bad.

Of course not.

As I've kept saying.


Add to that all those who keep repeating the "it's not GN'R" line to anybody who listens.

I wonder if these same people say "it's not the Stones" every time the Rolling Stones records an album without Mick Taylor (also not an original member) and Bill Wyman.




/jarmo

The key about the popularity with bands who've lost original members is WHO LEFT.

GN'R did  okay after Izzy left, but there were still three of the five original guys intact, plus Dizzy. I think the world is more than aware about Slash and Duff being gone since the mid 90's at this point, and only Axl, and the Guns N' Roses name, remain.

Regarding Metallica, Jason Newsted replaced a guy who was tragically killed, so he was only a member of that band due to that circumstance. The transition from Newsted to Bob Trujillo is a lot easier for Metallica fans to handle. Now say if Lars and Kirk walked away, then you're talking about a similar situation with GN'R, except James Hetfield would have the smarts not to call the band Metallica anymore.

[jarmo]

GN'R did  okay after Izzy left, but there were still three of the five original guys intact, plus Dizzy. I think the world is more than aware about Slash and Duff being gone since the mid 90's at this point, and only Axl, and the Guns N' Roses name, remain.

And I bet a bunch of people who bought the old albums couldn't name all band members at the time.

Just like everybody who owns Black Ice probably couldn't tell you who plays in AC/DC today.


Most bands have a one or a couple of popular members and the rest are the "unknowns".

This is why so few GN'R fans have issues no with the line up that didn't include Steven Adler.

Regarding Metallica, Jason Newsted replaced a guy who was tragically killed, so he was only a member of that band due to that circumstance. The transition from Newsted to Bob Trujillo is a lot easier for Metallica fans to handle.

Of course it's easy for them to handle.

They're not GN'R fans. 



I don't think the whole "who's not in the band anymore" is an issue to the general music buying public. Maybe some GN'R fans who are stuck in the past and haven't figured out how to get past something that happened in the early 1990s (almost 20 years ago) have issues with it.




/jarmo

[Jim Bob]

I don't think there is an easy explanation as to why Chinese Democracy hasn't sold well after the initial release last November. I have my own theories, but they've been discussed over and over by a number of members of this board. For me, who'll be 39 in November, it's pretty cut and dried: Chinese Democracy is a good record, but it's not what I'd call Guns N' Roses. Axl should have renamed the band, and let the name Guns N' Roses have its' place in music history. My Guns N' Roses will always be Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, and Steven/Matt.

Thats awesome you are stuck in the past.   Great job at bringing up stupid dead horse topics.   

Axl Rose owns the name, you do not.  Therefore he and he alone decides what is or isn't Guns N' Roses.   

All that matters is the music.   I can understand prefering certian lineups but what you are saying is just ignorant.

Sorry, but the more I think of 'Chinese Democracy', it really is an Axl Rose solo effort.

you have no business or authority to make such an asinine statement.   you really should keep these kinds of comments to yourself because they make you look foolish.

[King Axl]

I don't think there is an easy explanation as to why Chinese Democracy hasn't sold well after the initial release last November. I have my own theories, but they've been discussed over and over by a number of members of this board. For me, who'll be 39 in November, it's pretty cut and dried: Chinese Democracy is a good record, but it's not what I'd call Guns N' Roses. Axl should have renamed the band, and let the name Guns N' Roses have its' place in music history. My Guns N' Roses will always be Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, and Steven/Matt.

Thats awesome you are stuck in the past.   Great job at bringing up stupid dead horse topics.   

Axl Rose owns the name, you do not.  Therefore he and he alone decides what is or isn't Guns N' Roses.   

All that matters is the music.   I can understand prefering certian lineups but what you are saying is just ignorant.

Sorry, but the more I think of 'Chinese Democracy', it really is an Axl Rose solo effort.

you have no business or authority to make such an asinine statement.   you really should keep these kinds of comments to yourself because they make you look foolish.

No, that's where you're wrong, buddy. The public HAS decided who Guns N' Roses are. If Axl wants to attempt to sell a few more records by keeping the Guns N' Roses name, I can't control that. Truth is, the CD would probably be selling better if it weren't being marketed as a Guns N' Roses album.

Here's a thought- if in the very slimmest of chances that the old band does reunite- why don't you just stay home and not go to any of the reunion shows? I wouldn't want you to feel like you were "stuck in the past". The tens of millions of us in the United States ALONE will gladly go in your place.

[Jim Bob]

I don't think there is an easy explanation as to why Chinese Democracy hasn't sold well after the initial release last November. I have my own theories, but they've been discussed over and over by a number of members of this board. For me, who'll be 39 in November, it's pretty cut and dried: Chinese Democracy is a good record, but it's not what I'd call Guns N' Roses. Axl should have renamed the band, and let the name Guns N' Roses have its' place in music history. My Guns N' Roses will always be Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, and Steven/Matt.

Thats awesome you are stuck in the past.   Great job at bringing up stupid dead horse topics.   

Axl Rose owns the name, you do not.  Therefore he and he alone decides what is or isn't Guns N' Roses.   

All that matters is the music.   I can understand prefering certian lineups but what you are saying is just ignorant.

Sorry, but the more I think of 'Chinese Democracy', it really is an Axl Rose solo effort.

you have no business or authority to make such an asinine statement.   you really should keep these kinds of comments to yourself because they make you look foolish.

No, that's where you're wrong, buddy. The public HAS decided who Guns N' Roses are. If Axl wants to attempt to sell a few more records by keeping the Guns N' Roses name, I can't control that.

Here's a thought- if in the very slimmest of chances that the old band does reunite- why don't you just stay home and not go to any of the reunion shows? I wouldn't want you to feel like you were "stuck in the past". The tens of millions of us in the United States ALONE will gladly go in your place.

Again, Axl Rose is the ONLY person who decides who is in Guns N' Roses.  Not anyone else, and certainly not a nobody like yourself.   You are nothing, stop talking like you have some sort of say in this.   I bet the millions of fans who saw the band in 2006-07 and the couple million who bought Chinese Democracy would beg to differ with what you call "the public".

If you reunionist tools stop posting here until that day (never) comes, I will return the favor and stay home. 

[Continental Drift]

Just because the album supposedly didn't meet sales expectations, and by the way who's expectations, or draw in a new crowd of listeners around the globe, or even grab the attention of all the previous fans of the day, I am thrilled just to have this album for my own enjoyment, I waited long and I love what Axl has done for those of us who were really interested.  All of us longtime supporters, well, we got what we wished for, Axl delivered to us an album that meant something to him, and to alot of his current fans old or new, I don't think it really matters to Axl how the rest of the planet interacts with it, for it is possible he is content with just that, and I am content enjoying his work as well.  If there is more to follow at a later time, I will be more than excited to share in that enjoyment, but I am not going to join in here and try to project why things didn't meet the planets expectations, or try to compare them to others, they don't play like the others musically or in life itself, that is why they are Guns n Roses, that is what has drawn me in from the very beginning.  Axl doesn't require the same attention he once endured, I don't feel that is what his expectations were or are at this point, I believe he created an album that for once he enjoyed making his way, on his own time, I thank him, in my personal world, it is what I believe to be some of his most excellent work.  I'm fullfilled....

I really love this post... and the bolded in particular. I think it's dead-on. I think many of us are guilty of having operated under the assumption that Axl's "master plan" was to re-instate Guns N' Roses as the world's biggest band and reclaim the throne as the most famous rock star or whatever... The fact is IMHO that we need to "lose our illusions" (to quote Uncle Axl from an earlier time) and get comfortable with the fact that it's all about the art, collaborating with band members in an atmosphere of mutual respect, and what works for Axl personally IN 2009. We may all have fond memories of the UYI Tour and the world-wide fascination with Guns N' Roses- but I'm willing to bet it was a hell of a lot harder on Axl and the band personally than any of us could possibly comprehend. Axl is a 47 year-old man for crying out loud.. if he's not interested in putting in the time (both PR and on the road, etc.) and paying the personal price to climb back up to the top- that's his perrogative. If I were 47, finacially secure and already a rock icon- hell- I'd probably make the same decision. Why can't we all just be grateful that he's still breathing (never a given in the legendary rock star community), going on the occarional tour (showing off his fantastic band) and sharing his brilliant music with us?

[Jim Bob]

Just because the album supposedly didn't meet sales expectations, and by the way who's expectations, or draw in a new crowd of listeners around the globe, or even grab the attention of all the previous fans of the day, I am thrilled just to have this album for my own enjoyment, I waited long and I love what Axl has done for those of us who were really interested.  All of us longtime supporters, well, we got what we wished for, Axl delivered to us an album that meant something to him, and to alot of his current fans old or new, I don't think it really matters to Axl how the rest of the planet interacts with it, for it is possible he is content with just that, and I am content enjoying his work as well.  If there is more to follow at a later time, I will be more than excited to share in that enjoyment, but I am not going to join in here and try to project why things didn't meet the planets expectations, or try to compare them to others, they don't play like the others musically or in life itself, that is why they are Guns n Roses, that is what has drawn me in from the very beginning.  Axl doesn't require the same attention he once endured, I don't feel that is what his expectations were or are at this point, I believe he created an album that for once he enjoyed making his way, on his own time, I thank him, in my personal world, it is what I believe to be some of his most excellent work.  I'm fullfilled....

I really love this post... and the bolded in particular. I think it's dead-on. I think many of us are guilty of having operated under the assumption that Axl's "master plan" was to re-instate Guns N' Roses as the world's biggest band and reclaim the thrown as the most famous rock star or whatever... The fact is IMHO that we need to "lose our illusions" (to quote Uncle Axl from an earlier time) and get comfortable with the fact that it's all about the art, collaborating with band members in an atmosphere of mutual respect, and what works for Axl personally IN 2009. We may all have fond memories of the UYI Tour and the world-wide fascination with Guns N' Roses- but I'm willing to bet it was a hell of a lot harder on Axl and the band personally than any of us could possibly comprehend. Axl is a 47 year-old man for crying out loud.. if he's not interested in putting in the time (both PR and on the road, etc.) and paying the personal price to climb back up to the top- that's his perrogative. If I were 47, finacially secure and already a rock icon- hell- I'd probably make the same decision. Why can't we all just be grateful that he's still breathing (never a given in the legendary rock star community), going on the occarional tour (showing off his fantastic band) and sharing his brilliant music with us?

excellent post.  this is exactly how i'm thinking.   I for one am very happy with the album and in the end, thats what matters .  Its about the music, not all this other bullshit the naysayers keep hammering away at.

[King Axl]

I don't think there is an easy explanation as to why Chinese Democracy hasn't sold well after the initial release last November. I have my own theories, but they've been discussed over and over by a number of members of this board. For me, who'll be 39 in November, it's pretty cut and dried: Chinese Democracy is a good record, but it's not what I'd call Guns N' Roses. Axl should have renamed the band, and let the name Guns N' Roses have its' place in music history. My Guns N' Roses will always be Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, and Steven/Matt.

Thats awesome you are stuck in the past.   Great job at bringing up stupid dead horse topics.   

Axl Rose owns the name, you do not.  Therefore he and he alone decides what is or isn't Guns N' Roses.   

All that matters is the music.   I can understand prefering certian lineups but what you are saying is just ignorant.

Sorry, but the more I think of 'Chinese Democracy', it really is an Axl Rose solo effort.

you have no business or authority to make such an asinine statement.   you really should keep these kinds of comments to yourself because they make you look foolish.

No, that's where you're wrong, buddy. The public HAS decided who Guns N' Roses are. If Axl wants to attempt to sell a few more records by keeping the Guns N' Roses name, I can't control that.

Here's a thought- if in the very slimmest of chances that the old band does reunite- why don't you just stay home and not go to any of the reunion shows? I wouldn't want you to feel like you were "stuck in the past". The tens of millions of us in the United States ALONE will gladly go in your place.

Again, Axl Rose is the ONLY person who decides who is in Guns N' Roses.  Not anyone else, and certainly not a nobody like yourself.   You are nothing, stop talking like you have some sort of say in this.   I bet the millions of fans who saw the band in 2006-07 and the couple million who bought Chinese Democracy would beg to differ with what you call "the public".

If you reunionist tools stop posting here until that day (never) comes, I will return the favor and stay home. 

Ya know, it's a fucking shame for those that are "in" Guns N' Roses these days, to have to resort to touring with their side projects or other bands this summer because they can't depend on the "decision-maker" to do a tour in support of a record which at least one of the "members" didn't play on. Dude, go ahead and call me a nobody...I don't care. I helped make Axl Rose a rich man in the 1980's when you were playing with your fucking Transformers toys and watching Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. You didn't even have any hair on YOUR DICK when I saw GN'R for the first time, so don't fucking tell me I gotta get out of the past and accept this GN'R for what it is. Chinese Democracy is a good record that happens to feature Axl Rose on vocals. I can decide for myself whether it's a true Guns N' Roses album, and until a fucking tour takes place in support of it, I reserve the right to call it an Axl Rose solo project. Period.

[Jim Bob]

Ya know, it's a fucking shame for those that are "in" Guns N' Roses these days, to have to resort to touring with their side projects or other bands this summer because they can't depend on the "decision-maker" to do a tour in support of a record which at least one of the "members" didn't play on.

we have no idea whats going on behind the scenes.   The guys in the band are keeping busy with performing and making music.. thats what musicans do.   We can speculate all we want, but we don't know why a tour hasn't materialized.
 

Dude, go ahead and call me a nobody...I don't care. I helped make Axl Rose a rich man in the 1980's when you were playing with your fucking Transformers toys and watching Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. You didn't even have any hair on YOUR DICK when I saw GN'R for the first time,

Don't forget he-man, old timer.

so don't fucking tell me I gotta get out of the past and accept this GN'R for what it is.

I did and I'll tell you again.   Living in 1987 will do you no good, that lineup is gone.   It was Guns N' Roses at the time, now it is not.  These are legal facts.

Chinese Democracy is a good record that happens to feature Axl Rose on vocals.   I can decide for myself whether it's a true Guns N' Roses album

No, you can not.  The album clearly says Guns N' Roses and there is nothing you can say or do that will change that.   I bet that just pisses you off doesnt it?   Fuck off.

, and until a fucking tour takes place in support of it, I reserve the right to call it an Axl Rose solo project. Period.

before it was "until they release the album, blah blah blah".   You naysayers and detractors have been signing the same tune for YEARS now and its getting really fucking OLD.   Go jump off a fucking bridge or at least go to fucking mygnr or some stupid website that loves to stay in 1987.   Tired of this shit.

[jazjme]

I don't think there is an easy explanation as to why Chinese Democracy hasn't sold well after the initial release last November. I have my own theories, but they've been discussed over and over by a number of members of this board. For me, who'll be 39 in November, it's pretty cut and dried: Chinese Democracy is a good record, but it's not what I'd call Guns N' Roses. Axl should have renamed the band, and let the name Guns N' Roses have its' place in music history. My Guns N' Roses will always be Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, and Steven/Matt.

Thats awesome you are stuck in the past.   Great job at bringing up stupid dead horse topics.   

Axl Rose owns the name, you do not.  Therefore he and he alone decides what is or isn't Guns N' Roses.   

All that matters is the music.   I can understand prefering certian lineups but what you are saying is just ignorant.

Sorry, but the more I think of 'Chinese Democracy', it really is an Axl Rose solo effort.

you have no business or authority to make such an asinine statement.   you really should keep these kinds of comments to yourself because they make you look foolish.

No, that's where you're wrong, buddy. The public HAS decided who Guns N' Roses are. If Axl wants to attempt to sell a few more records by keeping the Guns N' Roses name, I can't control that.

Here's a thought- if in the very slimmest of chances that the old band does reunite- why don't you just stay home and not go to any of the reunion shows? I wouldn't want you to feel like you were "stuck in the past". The tens of millions of us in the United States ALONE will gladly go in your place.

Again, Axl Rose is the ONLY person who decides who is in Guns N' Roses.  Not anyone else, and certainly not a nobody like yourself.   You are nothing, stop talking like you have some sort of say in this.   I bet the millions of fans who saw the band in 2006-07 and the couple million who bought Chinese Democracy would beg to differ with what you call "the public".

If you reunionist tools stop posting here until that day (never) comes, I will return the favor and stay home. 

Amen!

[The Prez]

Regarding Metallica, Jason Newsted replaced a guy who was tragically killed, so he was only a member of that band due to that circumstance. The transition from Newsted to Bob Trujillo is a lot easier for Metallica fans to handle.

Of course it's easy for them to handle.

They're not GN'R fans. 

/jarmo

Dave Mustaine was once also a member of Metallica... It seems indeed Metallica fans do not have so much problems with a change in the band's lineup as Guns fans do.

I'm also Metallica fan, but like GN'R even more...just for your info.