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Author Topic: Donald Trump & 2016 Election  (Read 227655 times)
Senator Blutarsky
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« Reply #3380 on: September 28, 2019, 09:17:16 AM »

They need to put someone in there who has a shred of objectivity. This whole thing sets a bad precedent when it is so partisan they are looking to nail Trump as opposed to looking for facts. Making shit up for headlines  is a dereliction of duty and he doesn't need to be in charge of this. If they really had something they wouldn't need to do it this way....


Adam Schiff Makes Up His Own Transcript Of Call Between Trump And Ukraine President

 September 26, 2019 By Tristan Justice

The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., made up his own version of a transcript between President Donald Trump and his Ukrainian counterpart to fit the false narrative being peddled by Democrats and many in the media to frame the president for a crime that never happened.

In his opening statement at a congressional hearing featuring acting Department of National Intelligence Director Joseph Maguire, Schiff gave a fictional retelling of the conversation between the two leaders.

Here is what Schiff said:

    And what is the President’s response — well it reads like a classic organized crime shake down. In essence, what the President Trump communicates is this: We’ve been very good to your country. Very good. No other country has done as much as we have. But you know what, I don’t see much reciprocity here. You know what I mean? I hear what you want. I have a favor I want from you though. And I’m going to say this only seven times, so you better listen good. I want you to make up dirt on my political opponent, understand? Lots of dirt, on this and on that. I’m going to put you in touch with people, and not just any people. I’m going to put you in touch with the Attorney General of the United States — my Attorney General, Bill Barr — he’s got the whole weight of American law enforcement behind him. And I’m going to put you in touch with Rudy, you’re going to love him. Trust me. You know what I’m asking, so I’m only going to say this a few more times, in a few more ways. And don’t call me again. I’ll call you when you’ve done what I asked.

The actual transcript says no such thing. The “favor” in question was Trump seeking assistance with the Department of Justice’s probe into the 2016 election meddling by Ukraine. On the phone call, Trump later suggested that Ukrainian officials look into former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter for their shady business dealings with a Ukrainian energy company to root out corruption in the European country. While overseeing the administration’s policy toward Ukraine, then-Vice President Biden played a role in firing the Ukrainian prosecutor going after the Ukraine company whose board Hunter sat on for $50,000 a month despite no prior experience working in the industry.

Later in the hearing, Schiff admitted that his fictional account of the transcript was a “parody.”

“My summary of the president’s call was meant to be at least part in parody,” Schiff tried to clarify. “Of course the president never said if I — if you don’t understand me, I’ll say it seven more times.”

Democrats and many in the media, however, have pushed a narrative that seeks to charge Trump with conspiring with a foreign leader to meddle in the next U.S. presidential election, mirroring false claims made three years ago when the president was accused of colluding with Russia to defeat Hillary Clinton in 2016.

“My summary of the president’s call was meant to be at least part in parody,” Schiff tried to clarify. “Of course the president never said if I — if you don’t understand me, I’ll say it seven more times.”

Later in the hearing, Schiff admitted that his fictional account of the transcript was a “parody.”

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/26/adam-schiff-makes-up-his-own-transcript-of-call-between-trump-and-ukraine-president/?fbclid=IwAR3vH36LYg1n2zzlvVS7hw_NRegYlYVOK4CFE8GBglpRcSUOBKgOQ_urgQc
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« Reply #3381 on: September 28, 2019, 10:39:07 AM »

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-transcript-read-ukraine-president-phone-call-transcript-pdf-released-today-joe-biden-crowdstrike-2019-09-25/

That's not all the memo says. Nice try by the Federalist though.
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« Reply #3382 on: September 29, 2019, 02:45:10 AM »

I come back after months and still hear the same garbage. 

Let me repost this. 

Let’s talk about that economy, since the economy is another area where I continue to hear people (who hate Trump) say “well it started with Obama”...😒

Oh, it seems you missed my previous comments that sandman ran away from with his tail between his legs.

The rate of decrease in unemployment has not changed since Obama:



Black Homeownership Drops to All-Time Low

https://www.wsj.com/articles/black-homeownership-drops-to-all-time-low-11563183015

- The probabality of a loan denial is 36.9% higher for back-owned firm in comparison to their white, male owned business counterparts.
- While white families have a median wealth of $171,000, black families have a median wealth of just $17,600.
- When researchers from the institute looked at median wealth from 1983 to 2016 (adjusting for inflation), black families saw their wealth decrease by more than half, while white families saw theirs rise by 33 percent.
- Black families in America earn just $57.30 for every $100 in income earned by white families
- Nearly one in five black households has zero or negative net worth. The share of white households without any wealth is considerably smaller, at 9 percent
- If current trends continue, it will take 228 years for the average black family to reach the level of wealth white families own today.

Quote
Can anyone share anything that Obama may have done that helped the economy?

Saving us from a disaster with the failing banks and automakers? Radically increasing healthcare coverage?

Obama tackled income inequality by increasing taxes on high-income taxpayers via: a) expiration of the Bush income tax cuts for the top 1–2% of income earners starting with 2013; and b) payroll tax increases on roughly the top 5% of earners as part of the ACA. He also lowered taxes on small businesses.

According to the CBO, the top 1% received 18.7% of the pre-tax income in 2007, but 15.0% in 2013. This indicated some progress on pre-tax inequality as well.

During late 2015, the House and Senate, in rare bipartisan form, passed the largest infrastructure package in a decade, costing $305 billion over five years, less than the $478 billion in Obama's initial request.

Inflation (measured by CPI-All Urban Consumers, All Items) fell to a historically low level during his administration, averaging 1.4% from Q2 2009 to Q4 2016, well below the 3.0% average from Q1 1989 to Q4 2008.

Obama presided over the third longest economic expansion among the 33 expansions tracked since records began in 1857, and the longest continuous stretch of private sector job creation since records began in 1939.

Between 2014 and 2015, real median household income grew 5.2%, or $2,800, the fastest growth on record. Contrary to prior trends, these gains were widely shared across the income distribution.

The S&P500 reached record highs 118 times during the Obama presidency.

Imports of petroleum products fell from 1.85% GDP in 2009 to 0.86% GDP in 2016.[142] The U.S. was less reliant on foreign oil than it has been in nearly 30 years.

From 2008 to 2016, the U.S. tripled the amount of energy harnessed from wind and increased solar power generation by a factor of 30.

Quote
 Under Obama, the GDP was one of, if not the worst under any president since they’ve been calculating the number since I believe the 1940’s.  You could come back and say “but he followed a recession under Bush”. Yeah, and so have other presidents.

Gee, it's the slowest recovery since the last economic crash as severe as the one in 2008? You don't say...  drool

Quote
So with that said, Obama’s first quarter GDP was 5.4%....really Bush’s.  Then after that quarter, the GDP under Obama averaged between 1.5 and 2% quarterly.  So if Obama was doing anything good on the economy front, why weren’t those numbers higher?  They had already started to rise by the end of Bush’s time?

LOL, you think a single quarter means anything in isolation? You have no clue what you're talking about.

Q2 2014, Obama had 5.5% growth. That blows the shit out of every quarter Trump has ever had. It's nearly DOUBLE Trump's best quarter.

Quote
From 2013-2015, the GDP started to rise under Obama, and it went from around 2.0% to almost 3% annually.  This was his best time. However, then from 2015-2016, it took a dive again and went to 1.6% over Obama’s last 2 quarters.  So I’ll ask you, how?  How did this happen if Obama was doing good things for our economy?  Why was it so low over the course of his presidency, and why did it then start to dive at the end of his term? 

And let’s go back to when Trump first took office.  Slightly over 1% (attributed to Obama) in his first quarter.  Then the next two quarters over 3%!

You're cherry picking quarters to build a narrative. Yearly GDP growth has been effectively identical:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/188165/annual-gdp-growth-of-the-united-states-since-1990/

Also, GDP is not the be-all-end-all of the economy. There are lots of other indicators which are horrible.

America's Wealth Inequality Is At Roaring Twenties Levels

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jessecolombo/2019/02/28/americas-wealth-inequality-is-at-roaring-twenties-levels/#1ee2fd4b2a9c





🙄🤔😒.  I’ll give you credit on the banks.  He did do that (I think any president would have had to do that at time, but he DID do it).

I literally don’t even know where to start.

How about the SnP500.  You do realize this has continued to rise over time right...doesn’t matter who the president is. Just about each new president has a shit ton of new highs, so that means nothing.

The real median income also is another thing that continues to rise over time. 

Rate of decrease of unemployment?  Thanks for that.  Not sure what your point was there.  Trump has been decreasing it just as Obama was.

Black home ownership drops to all time high.  Thanks for that as well. Are you trying to say that it was so much better under Obama? 🤔. You know what, Hispanics owning homes is on the rise.  See, I can play this game as well.

Not very good examples.

You completely missed my point on the GDP.  No, 1 single quarter does not tell all...exactly!  I was talking about Obama’s whole term. Yeah, I brought up how the first quarter under any president isn’t truly the current presidents GDP, but that doesn’t mean I was using 1 quarter as a tell all. And even after you mentioned that 1 quarter doesn’t tell all, you then go on to talk about 1 of Obama’s quarters. 🙄.

My point was talking about the whole picture under Obama and how it only gained momentum one time, and then tanked again.  I mentioned how Obama was averaging between 1.5 and 2% quarterly (not good).  He was bad for multiple quarters and years.  It started to get better, but then tanked.  The GDP during his 8 years....as a whole, was bad. I ain’t cherry picking any numbers.  His 8 years was one of the worst.  And if he had done anything truly good for the economy, it would have been better over his 8 years.  Simple.  Especially with the fact that it started to rise a bit, but could never sustain.  The end of his term, it was getting worse, but yet people say this current economy is “all because of Obama”. Gtfoh.  I didn’t use Trumps first few quarters as an example to say how good the economy was going to be under a Trump. I used those as examples to show just how bad Obama’s was.   This economy has been good, not great....but don’t sit here and tell me it’s Obamas economy.  🙄  And yes, the GDP isnt the only indicator of a good economy, but it’s a damn good one, and the most important, for multiple reasons. 

That’s all I have time for.  You ever think Sandman didn’t run from anything?  Maybe he just looked at your 5000 word response as an attempt to look smart , but in reality...was a bunch of waste.  I’m sure you will come back with another long winded response, trying to educate us, all while being on your high horse with a few insults along the way.  Meanwhile, I’m gonna go live my life.  I may check back in when I hear this silly impeachment attempt fails.  Why wait, I’ll break the news to you now...Trump being removed from office ain’t happening. 
« Last Edit: October 28, 2019, 03:55:45 AM by damnthehaters » Logged

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« Reply #3383 on: September 29, 2019, 02:58:28 AM »

If the Senate could find their balls it wouldn't fail.
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« Reply #3384 on: September 29, 2019, 03:00:10 AM »

Difference is Obama inherited a recession, Trump was handed a good economy. This isn't rocket science.

👊🙁👊.  How have other Presidents have done after recessions?  As good or as bad as Obama?  You can only use a recession as an a excuse for so long.  That excuse doesn’t last 8 years.  The average recession lasts anywhere from 10-20 months and then things turn around.  And what’s your definition of a “good economy”?  Obama’s last couple years??? 🤔 Because 2016 was not good.  So therefor, Trump didn’t inherit a “good economy”
« Last Edit: October 28, 2019, 03:52:42 AM by damnthehaters » Logged

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« Reply #3385 on: September 29, 2019, 04:10:22 AM »

That's one part of the overall picture you're focusing on to try and make your guy look awesome. Once the economy started to recover jobs and unemployment fell monthly the rest of his term. Trump's economy is so good he's had to bailor farmers twice and so good job gains have had do be revised downward to the tune of 500k. rofl
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« Reply #3386 on: September 29, 2019, 10:17:55 AM »

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-was-not-working-alone-in-biden-ukraine-probe
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« Reply #3387 on: September 29, 2019, 04:08:50 PM »

Obsessed with me much?

Your lack of understanding of economics is sad. But economics are complicated. Most people never truly understand. But viewing everything through your bias makes you feel good, so i guess just go with that. It clearly makes you feel good and between Trump being your president and the fact that climate change is gonna kill us in 10 years, you clearly can’t handle any more stress. So keep your head up your ass and go with what makes you feel good. The rest of us will accept reality.

 rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Actually holding your feet to the fire is "obsession". Yeah, I have an "obsession" with people not being cowards who dodge having to face reality.

This piddling response is all you've got? Wow. "You don't understand economics. Now let me fail to refute any of the empirical and verifiable FACTS you've presented while I make an ad hominem attack on you".  drool

Keep attacking me personally, it only proves even further that you cannot refute my ARGUMENTS because you know I am RIGHThihi

I accept your concession. No need to be a sore loser, now.
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« Reply #3388 on: September 29, 2019, 05:07:57 PM »

How about the SnP500.  You do realize this has continued to rise over time right...doesn’t matter who the president is. Just about each new president has a shit ton of new highs, so that means nothing. 

Read it and weep:

https://www.macrotrends.net/2482/sp500-performance-by-president

Quote
The real median income also is another thing that continues to rise over time. 

Rate of decrease of unemployment?  Thanks for that.  Not sure what your point was there.  Trump has been decreasing it just as Obama was.

I like how you ignored what that said about the median income: "real median household income grew 5.2%, or $2,800, the fastest growth on record. Contrary to prior trends, these gains were widely shared across the income distribution."

I stated my point; that the rate of decrease did not change. Are you okay?

You insisted "it started with Obama" was not legitimate. Well, nothing has changed from his trajectory. That's as clear evidence as it gets that the trend came from Obama. Stop burying your head in the sand.

Quote
Black home ownership drops to all time high.  Thanks for that as well. Are you trying to say that it was so much better under Obama? . You know what, Hispanics owning homes is on the rise.  See, I can play this game as well.

Uh, obviously it was better if it wasn't at an ALL TIME LOW! rofl drool

Yes, you can play the game of ignoring the plight of black Americans quite well, we all know that already.

Quote
You completely missed my point on the GDP.  No, 1 single quarter does not tell all...exactly!  I was talking about Obama’s whole term. Yeah, I brought up how the first quarter under any president isn’t truly the current presidents GDP, but that doesn’t mean I was using 1 quarter as a tell all. And even after you mentioned that 1 quarter doesn’t tell all, you then go on to talk about 1 of Obama’s quarters.

Wow, reading comprehension is not your strong suit, huh? I pointed out that one exceptional quarter to PROVE MY POINT that quarters are not representative of the larger trends. Derp. drool

Except you never mentioned Obama's yearly GDP rate or his average over his entire presidency. So you're just lying through your teeth now.

Quote
My point was talking about the whole picture under Obama and how it only gained momentum one time, and then tanked again.  I mentioned how Obama was averaging between 1.5 and 2% quarterly (not good).  He was bad for multiple quarters and years.  It started to get better, but then tanked.  The GDP during his 8 years....as a whole, was bad. I ain’t cherry picking any numbers.  His 8 years was one of the worst.  And if he had done anything truly good for the economy, it would have been better over his 8 years.  Simple.  Especially with the fact that it started to rise a bit, but could never sustain.  The end of his term, it was getting worse, but yet people say this current economy is “all because of Obama”.

Way to prove you didn't follow the link I gave. Here, since you refuse to engage in good faith discussion, I guess I have to post it here where you can't ignore it:



"In fact, the inflation-adjusted growth rate over the past year was 2.3% – matching the pace since the recovery began a decade ago, Justin notes. So far, Trump’s economy looks a lot like Obama’s."

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-07-26/gdp-growth-meet-the-trump-economy-same-as-the-obama-economy

https://www.barrons.com/articles/un-spinning-the-trump-obama-gdp-numbers-51553801603

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/28/trumps-economic-policies-failed-to-deliver-promised-3percent-growth-in-2018.html

And, as Pilferk has pointed out a million times now, Trumps' numbers are significantly revised down every fucking time. No surprise from the administration of a pathological liar. You sycophants have never ONCE addressed that point. Because you cannot defend it and you know it.

Trump's GDP growth literally matches Obama's last three years. And there are indicators suggesting a recession is coming soon. You just refuse to deal with reality and keep inflating Trump's record.

Quote
That’s all I have time for.  You ever think Sandman didn’t run from anything?  Maybe he just looked at your 5000 word response as an attempt to look smart , but in reality...was a bunch of waste.  Good attempt though, and I’m sure you will come back with another long winded response, trying to educate us, all while being on your high horse with a few insults along the way.  Meanwhile, I’m gonna go live my life.  I may check back in when I hear this silly impeachment attempt fails.  Why wait, I’ll break the news to you now...It’s not happening.

LOL, you think that is a long read? You've obviously never gone to college then. XD

I love how dumb people act like being thorough and actually doing your homework is a bad thing. What a cowardly way to say you refuse to educate yourself and would rather live in ignorance.

Anyone who makes claims and refuses to respond when they are challenged is running away. Just like you are now, because you know you've been discredited and you have no defense left to make of your spin.

Don't tuck that tail too hard, now.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 05:10:47 PM by PermissionToLand » Logged
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« Reply #3389 on: September 29, 2019, 05:40:15 PM »

Obsessed with me much?

Your lack of understanding of economics is sad. But economics are complicated. Most people never truly understand. But viewing everything through your bias makes you feel good, so i guess just go with that. It clearly makes you feel good and between Trump being your president and the fact that climate change is gonna kill us in 10 years, you clearly can’t handle any more stress. So keep your head up your ass and go with what makes you feel good. The rest of us will accept reality.

 rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Actually holding your feet to the fire is "obsession". Yeah, I have an "obsession" with people not being cowards who dodge having to face reality.

This piddling response is all you've got? Wow. "You don't understand economics. Now let me fail to refute any of the empirical and verifiable FACTS you've presented while I make an ad hominem attack on you".  drool

Keep attacking me personally, it only proves even further that you cannot refute my ARGUMENTS because you know I am RIGHThihi

I accept your concession. No need to be a sore loser, now.

Let me dumb this down for you. The economy has been trump’s for a long time now. The economy is exceptional. Even the left wing propaganda machines have admitted this and given trump credit. The fact that you are unable to look at the economy objectively and give credit where credit invalidates your opinion. How can we have a discussion with someone on a complicated topic when you are incapable of admitting basic truths?

As everyone knows, at any point there are weaknesses with an economy. It will never be 100% positive. So you have to step back and look at all of the data, put it in a historical context, and assess all data collectively.  Posting every piece of data that is “weak” or in many cases, not perfect, is short sighted. And it shows your bias.

The mitch mcconnell’s of our political system have removed your DESIRE to look at things objectively. You are a sheep and void of any original thought or opinions. Everything you post here is straight from far left wing websites and twitter accounts. You treat politics like sports and always root for your team no matter what.

Some people are happy to shut their brain down and only see things from one side. But you seem miserable. So not sure what you get out of it. You seem angry and you post in here like you are some kind of genius and you constantly insult others. I guess that makes you feel better about yourself.

 
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« Reply #3390 on: September 30, 2019, 07:21:25 AM »

Let's watch the Trumpists run away from incontrovertible facts and statistics yet again!  rofl

It's all they can do, man.  The truth is the truth.

The economy has been "fine", largely following the SAME trends started under Obama.  Nothing has gotten substantially better.  Our economy has not boomed like Trump promised it would.  You look at almost every economic indicator...EVERY ONE...and it has either maintained the same trend lines, or it has flattened out.  You have to EXTREMELY cherry pick economic indicators to show any sort of improvement over Obama, or to show any BOOM.  About the one bright spot is government spending.....aka stimulus....which Republican always purport to hate.

"Best evers" when you increase or decrease something by a tenth of a percent are not achievements.  They are perpetuations of previous "best evers" by people with steeper trend lines, and actual policy decisions they can tie to those increases.

At the end of the day economic growth has been slowing.  It just has. Under Trump.  Who never fully delivered on his 3/4/5% GDP growth promises. 

We have a volatile market (even considering the stock market is not the economy).  We have trade wars that are resulting in bail outs.  We have BALLOONING debt and deficit. We are seeing leading indicators of a slowing, if not a recession.

If you voted for Trump based on him creating a booming economy, he's failed you. 

But they REFUSE to be objective and address objective facts.  Because they can't.  Instead they'll deflect, insult, and whatabout.

Don't expect that to change as they see their hero and savior....who they've tied their identity to so can't admit he is anything but PERFECT....struggle more and more.  With the economy and with impeachment.

It's an ongoing trend with Republicans.  They were wrong about Bush....and they are wrong about Trump.  And they are becoming increasingly frustrated by that fact.

Edit: Have you noticed that most of the folks who disagree with Trump post links, facts, graphs, and statistics to help make their case....and the Trump Supporters just offer up their opinions without foundation? Or ask others to do the research for them?  I find that an interesting trend, honestly.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 07:55:32 AM by pilferk » Logged

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It's not starting over, it's just going on
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« Reply #3391 on: September 30, 2019, 07:23:51 AM »

It's called doing what's right, putting country above party. The Republicans might want to consider doing the same.

Amen.

I was not for impeachment after the Mueller report.  At least not a fast one.  Maybe a slow walk to something in mid 2020.

But this?  This is so blatant, so obvious, and so illegal....they have no choice.

And anyone objectively looking at this....who doesn't have their identity tied up in Trump....can see that.  Read the statute.  Read the read out.  Illegal.



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« Reply #3392 on: September 30, 2019, 07:32:03 AM »

They need to put someone in there who has a shred of objectivity. This whole thing sets a bad precedent when it is so partisan they are looking to nail Trump as opposed to looking for facts. Making shit up for headlines  is a dereliction of duty and he doesn't need to be in charge of this. If they really had something they wouldn't need to do it this way....


Adam Schiff Makes Up His Own Transcript Of Call Between Trump And Ukraine President

 September 26, 2019 By Tristan Justice

The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., made up his own version of a transcript between President Donald Trump and his Ukrainian counterpart to fit the false narrative being peddled by Democrats and many in the media to frame the president for a crime that never happened.

In his opening statement at a congressional hearing featuring acting Department of National Intelligence Director Joseph Maguire, Schiff gave a fictional retelling of the conversation between the two leaders.

Here is what Schiff said:

    And what is the President’s response — well it reads like a classic organized crime shake down. In essence, what the President Trump communicates is this: We’ve been very good to your country. Very good. No other country has done as much as we have. But you know what, I don’t see much reciprocity here. You know what I mean? I hear what you want. I have a favor I want from you though. And I’m going to say this only seven times, so you better listen good. I want you to make up dirt on my political opponent, understand? Lots of dirt, on this and on that. I’m going to put you in touch with people, and not just any people. I’m going to put you in touch with the Attorney General of the United States — my Attorney General, Bill Barr — he’s got the whole weight of American law enforcement behind him. And I’m going to put you in touch with Rudy, you’re going to love him. Trust me. You know what I’m asking, so I’m only going to say this a few more times, in a few more ways. And don’t call me again. I’ll call you when you’ve done what I asked.

The actual transcript says no such thing. The “favor” in question was Trump seeking assistance with the Department of Justice’s probe into the 2016 election meddling by Ukraine. On the phone call, Trump later suggested that Ukrainian officials look into former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter for their shady business dealings with a Ukrainian energy company to root out corruption in the European country. While overseeing the administration’s policy toward Ukraine, then-Vice President Biden played a role in firing the Ukrainian prosecutor going after the Ukraine company whose board Hunter sat on for $50,000 a month despite no prior experience working in the industry.

I bolded the important bit here.  He's paraphrasing.  He says so.  Read the transcript of the hearing.  He was under no onus to read the read out verbatim.  And he made it clear he wasn't.

And when you cite and quote the federalist after saying that there needs to be "more objectivity"...you pretty much kill your own point.

"If they really had something"?  The president admitted it on TV.  So did the OG, RG. Then the read out said the same thing. 

And the whistleblower apparently knows where the bodies are buried, and says they have list of people to talk to.

That seems like "something".

So much for you wanting to hear all the facts before making a decision, eh?

Quote

Later in the hearing, Schiff admitted that his fictional account of the transcript was a “parody.”

“My summary of the president’s call was meant to be at least part in parody,” Schiff tried to clarify. “Of course the president never said if I — if you don’t understand me, I’ll say it seven more times.”

Democrats and many in the media, however, have pushed a narrative that seeks to charge Trump with conspiring with a foreign leader to meddle in the next U.S. presidential election, mirroring false claims made three years ago when the president was accused of colluding with Russia to defeat Hillary Clinton in 2016.

They weren't false claims (in the context of the point they are making), actually.  The Mueller report supports this. There wasn't enough evidence to charge him with conspiracy.  Due to obstruction, according to Mueller. Have you read it yet?

And...the media isn't pushing anything.  The readout clearly lays out that this was what he was doing.  And he used his personal attorney to do it.  Another no no.

Quote


“My summary of the president’s call was meant to be at least part in parody,” Schiff tried to clarify. “Of course the president never said if I — if you don’t understand me, I’ll say it seven more times.”

Later in the hearing, Schiff admitted that his fictional account of the transcript was a “parody.”

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/26/adam-schiff-makes-up-his-own-transcript-of-call-between-trump-and-ukraine-president/?fbclid=IwAR3vH36LYg1n2zzlvVS7hw_NRegYlYVOK4CFE8GBglpRcSUOBKgOQ_urgQc


It was obvious to anyone not trying to find something to be outraged over, or score political points over, that it was paraphrasing.

And he said so.  And said it again when asked about it during the hearing.  And again after.

I know...whataboutism vs addressing the presidents bad behavior.

But you gotta wonder: Why does Schiff's paraphrasing bother you so much....and the Presidents constant "rephrasing" (aka lies) don't?  And neither does his reaching out to a foreign country to arrange an investigation of his main political rival? And nor do his administrations efforts to hide that call?

Wink
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« Reply #3393 on: September 30, 2019, 07:33:24 AM »

It's called doing what's right, putting country above party. The Republicans might want to consider doing the same.

Amen.

I was not for impeachment after the Mueller report.  At least not a fast one.  Maybe a slow walk to something in mid 2020.

But this?  This is so blatant, so obvious, and so illegal....they have no choice.

And anyone objectively looking at this....who doesn't have their identity tied up in Trump....can see that.  Read the statute.  Read the read out.  Illegal.





Yep he did it and released a memo admitting  HE did it and then said it was a perfect call. That is shockingly full of shit. He left the Democrats no other choice to open the inquiry. Which by no means is a certainty to result in articles being drawn and voted on. We will see how this plays out. I am eagerly awaiting what the whistleblower has to say directly and not via the complaint.
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« Reply #3394 on: September 30, 2019, 07:44:49 AM »

👊🙁👊.  Please do some research and tell me how other Presidents have done after recessions?  As good or as bad as Obama?  You can only use a recession as an a excuse for so long.  That excuse doesn’t last 8 years.  The average recession lasts anywhere from 10-20 months and then things turn around.  And what’s your definition of a “good economy”?  Obama’s last couple years??? 🤔 Because 2016 was not good.  So therefor, Trump didn’t inherit a “good economy”

1) No other President has presided over as long a period of sustained economic growth and recovery than Obama.  So, while some have seen LARGER/QUICKER recoveries....Obamas was more sustained. After inheriting the 2nd worst recession (2nd only to the Great Depression) in history...lasting over 2 years and ALMOST seeing the collapse of BOTH the banking and auto industries.  Economists who have looked at this view Obamas recovery as superior, and remarkable given what he inherited.  Because sustained growth (like compounded interest) results in greater economic stability. "Do some research" and look it up. 

1b) In the last quarter of 2008, GDP "growth" was -8.4%.   Last quarter of Obama's presidency? 1.9% growth.  And 2.6% for the year (2016).  Trump has given us years of 2.4%, 2.9%, and SO FAR 2.5% in 2019 (and that's likely to go down a tick with predictions of Q3 being around 2%).  At. Best. Trumps. Economy. Is. No. Better. Than. Obamas.  Which Republicans BITCHED about because it was too slow.

2) The recession effected his first 2-3 years.  Makes sense, actually.  Trumps numbers, after adjusting for inflation, match Obama's last 3.  So...if you think Obama's economy sucked his last couple years....then you must really HATE Trumps economy.  AND, right now, it's looking like 2019 is going to look a lot like 2016.  Our last three quarters are probably going to be at or below 2%ish. 
 
2b) Obama did it while reducing our deficit by half.  Trump has sustained those numbers by DOUBLING our deficit.  Government spending has been a SIGNIFICANT portion of our GDP for just about the past year.  So Obama's recovery also COST YOU (aka the taxpayer) less...which adds to it's superiority. You. Are. Getting. Obama's. Economy. At. Twice. The. Cost.  With early indicators of a down turn.

3) Trump promised 3/4/5% (and maybe more) GDP growth....largely fueled by his tax cuts.  He haven't yet hit a year of 3%.  We are likely NOT going to hit that this year.

4) Trump inherited a good economy. There was growth.  Unemployment was historically low. Construction was solid. The market was doing well. He didn't inherit a GREAT economy.  He didn't inherit a BOOMING economy.  He hasn't created one, either.  He has perpetuated the same economy, with leading indicators that it may be slowing.

5) Wages have not increased at a rate you would expect given full employment and the corporate tax cuts.  They started to creep up late in Obama's admin...and have continued to creep up slowly.  Given the corporate tax cuts...if they had significantly reinvested that in their work force (instead of stock buy backs), wages would have popped.  They didn't.  And those tax cuts, along with government spending which is propping up our GDP growth, is increasing the deficit like no administration has before.

Those are the facts.  Plain and simple.  I know they don't fit the Trump narrative, but they are what they are.  If you have alternate information, from reputable sources, that contradicts what pretty much every reputable economist has said over the past decade....provide it.

Or keep tilting at windmills.  That's fine, too.  Nobody is going to force you to stop buying the snake oil.
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« Reply #3395 on: September 30, 2019, 07:49:34 AM »

Yep he did it and released a memo admitting  HE did it and then said it was a perfect call. That is shockingly full of shit. He left the Democrats no other choice to open the inquiry. Which by no means is a certainty to result in articles being drawn and voted on. We will see how this plays out. I am eagerly awaiting what the whistleblower has to say directly and not via the complaint.

That's it.  And to watch the Republicans try to justify it, or excuse it, or normalize it is just.....sad.

How it will play out: The Senate Republicans will never vote to convict him.  Because thats where we are as a country: Party and power > country. 

And the tribalists who support trump, who swing from his nuts, will go practically rabid over the GALL that anyone would hold Trump accountable for his continued bad behavior.

BUT if a Dem president EVER does anything similar, they will go fucking nuts.  They have over MUCH less.  But when it's their guy, on their team, no matter how much bad shit he does, they will never want him held accountable.

"United" States of America.
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« Reply #3396 on: September 30, 2019, 09:24:46 AM »

Yep he did it and released a memo admitting  HE did it and then said it was a perfect call. That is shockingly full of shit. He left the Democrats no other choice to open the inquiry. Which by no means is a certainty to result in articles being drawn and voted on. We will see how this plays out. I am eagerly awaiting what the whistleblower has to say directly and not via the complaint.

That's it.  And to watch the Republicans try to justify it, or excuse it, or normalize it is just.....sad.

How it will play out: The Senate Republicans will never vote to convict him.  Because thats where we are as a country: Party and power > country. 

And the tribalists who support trump, who swing from his nuts, will go practically rabid over the GALL that anyone would hold Trump accountable for his continued bad behavior.

BUT if a Dem president EVER does anything similar, they will go fucking nuts.  They have over MUCH less.  But when it's their guy, on their team, no matter how much bad shit he does, they will never want him held accountable.

"United" States of America.

What i find sadder is that i believe what Jeff Flake and the former McCain/Romney aid said. If the vote was confidential that 30-38 would vote to convict. That says everything you need to know about the current crop of Republicans who occupy the Senate.
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« Reply #3397 on: September 30, 2019, 12:51:06 PM »

Trump is UNHINGED on Twitter today. It's actually funny (and very sad).  Suggesting Civil War, and that Schiff should be arrested....insisting rules have been changed that haven't been.  Man, he's all sorts of crazy.

At some point....he's going to have to swear in and testify.  And if I were him, and his supporters in the administration, that would make me break out in a cold sweat at night.  You think Clinton lying about a blow job is bad?  Trump can't complete a paragraph without lying. And you just know he's gonna do it under oath. Repeatedly

Honestly, guy would be better of resigning once the courts ultimately compel him to testify....it would be better for him, in the long run.

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« Reply #3398 on: September 30, 2019, 06:02:45 PM »

Trump is UNHINGED on Twitter today.
Also on President Trump's Twitter today:

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
BIG NEWS by @Hyundai, @Kia, and @Aptiv on a 4 BILLION DOLLAR joint venture to develop autonomous driving technologies in the USA. That’s a lot of $$ and JOBS! Great jobs coming back to America!!

Donald J. Trumpb@realDonaldTrump
Great news! @Apple announced that it is building its new Mac Pro in Texas. This means hundreds of American jobs in Austin and for suppliers across the Country. Congratulations to the Apple team and their workers!

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Navistar will be building a new 250 MILLION DOLLAR truck factory in San Antonio with 600 new jobs. Congratulations San Antonio and Texas! America makes the GREATEST trucks in the world!

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« Reply #3399 on: September 30, 2019, 07:10:02 PM »

Trump is UNHINGED on Twitter today.
Also on President Trump's Twitter today:

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
BIG NEWS by @Hyundai, @Kia, and @Aptiv on a 4 BILLION DOLLAR joint venture to develop autonomous driving technologies in the USA. That’s a lot of $$ and JOBS! Great jobs coming back to America!!

Donald J. Trumpb@realDonaldTrump
Great news! @Apple announced that it is building its new Mac Pro in Texas. This means hundreds of American jobs in Austin and for suppliers across the Country. Congratulations to the Apple team and their workers!

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Navistar will be building a new 250 MILLION DOLLAR truck factory in San Antonio with 600 new jobs. Congratulations San Antonio and Texas! America makes the GREATEST trucks in the world!



True.  HOURS after i posted about his digital diahrea, and likely not tweeted by him...but one of his underlings. Because he was on camera, live, when one went up....and in a meeting when the other two went up. Also, not nearly enough spelling mistakes to be him. Wink

Good news. Not surprising news given assembly (not part manufacuring.....which will come from mexico and china) ends around some of the older regulations.....and that, due to investments encouraged by the obama administration, the US has led the charge in driverless tech. The two texas plants have been rumored for......over a year? Maybe a bit more? And the kia investment rumor is older than that. They have been working on an in road since 2016 or so. Originally they were looking at setting up shop in Cali.

Fyi: none of these jobs are "coming back to the US". They are just new jobs, period. Still good news!


Don't worry. Later tonight and early tomorrow, we will be back to his actual tweets. Which I suspect will be equally unhinged and amusing.
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