Profiling? -Test Inside-

[Charity Case]

profiling isn't the be-all-end-all solution to anything.  However, it can be used effectively tohelp curtail crime.  If you know that a blond-haired, blue eyes white guy killed a kid, are you gonna detain black females and question them?  No.  This is common sense. 

slcpunk, as usual you miss the point of the thread.

[C0ma]

It's pointless to argue for something that will hinder civil liberties with anyone here. If you name 100 bombing perpitrated by Middle Eastern men between the ages of 17-40 they will point out the 2 bombings in that time frame that were done by White Males. It's a losing battle, for every 100 Muhamed Atta's there is 1 Eric Rudolph.

When the next attack on US soil happens, the Civil Libertarians will cry for weeks about how the Government didn't do enough to stop the attack, but for the months leading up to the attack they will be full of complaints about how we try to do it.

[Prometheus]

profiling isn't the be-all-end-all solution to anything.  However, it can be used effectively tohelp curtail crime.  If you know that a blond-haired, blue eyes white guy killed a kid, are you gonna detain black females and question them?  No.  This is common sense. 

slcpunk, as usual you miss the point of the thread.

no my friend it is u that seems to miss the point....... to stop everyone that fits that discription..... which is everysingle male.... not jsut a blonde har blue eyed white man..... your talking about every single muslim "middle eastren muslim" if you can tell that they are from teh middle east and not 2nd gen westren born... you got some fucking eyes on ya....... maybe we should drop you off over the the ghan and you will do what billions of dollars in tech cant... find the bin laden.... fuck sakes..... what do muslim "terroists" dislike about westren civilization? the fact that for teh most part our laws allow freedom for every race and promotes equality among all.......... so if its going to be equality.... you better be stopping that soccer mom with the 10 kids in the van and searching her for explosves... every freedom that we loose is a victory for the terroists... im amazed how the right wing neo cons cannot see that to win in this manner is to loose the war..... the people that your protecting now are the loosers..... its not what we were raised under its not what our grandfaters/mothers faught for and died for....... i just can not see how short sighted you neo cons are..... SLC ill send ya a plane ticket buddy..... get your ass on some liberal soil....


the thing that you people fail to see is that the next one... no matter what we do to protect from it is going t be huge.... its going to make a statement that no matter what we can still get you... its not going to be small like the london bombings... its going to be bigger tehn the WTC......the only thing i can say about 9/11 is he should have done it bigger just to show exatly how naive the US really is when it comes to the small fries....

you underestimated the VC .... and you had thousdans dead... your are understmating the teroists and thier resolve... you CANNOT FIGHT TERRIOSTS with guns... you hvae to fight them with words and actions....... because you can kill 10,000 in a year only means you'll have another 20,000 recruits..... you have to hit them where their numbers are in easy to exploit countries help them to stand up like a brother nad you willhave a brother for sure.

wait i guesss that is toooo far over the wall for you eh?

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

your are understmating the teroists and thier resolve... you CANNOT FIGHT TERRIOSTS with guns..

i agree. i talked about that once ... and you dis-agreed ...
i think you're pushing it a little on the 9/11 ...

but overall. the "cowboy" technique, fighting back, war, profiling, isn't the right way at all.

the key is education. i think. and also, We have to change. western countries have to re-evaluate their positions and views on the world.
until we realize that we're as evil as them, we wont get nowhere.

[Charity Case]

what do muslim "terroists" dislike about westren civilization? the fact that for teh most part our laws allow freedom for every race and promotes equality among all..........  every freedom that we loose is a victory for the terroists...

You make some good points, but if you think the way to stop terrorism is with words and education, then you are even more left wing than slcpunk.  How come liberals are always satisfied with inaction?  I don't want to make this  political debate between left and right, so I'll stop here.  I agree with some of your post, but I feel that you have to take this fight to the terrorists and not sit back and wait for it to happen again.

as for the next one being big, unless they get a nuke or a WMD, I doubt it will be all that big.  I mean we kicked their asses into the ground in Afganistan and they didn't retaliate at all.  I would think that if they had the capability to do so, they would have done so by now.  Who knows, maybe they will in the future and maybe you will be right.  But if that is the case, they will do so whether we are fighting them or not.  They attacked us at thw WTC and we were not at war with them or Iraq at the time.  Inaction is definately NOT the way to go IMO.

[C0ma]

"you underestimated the VC .... and you had thousdans dead... your are understmating the teroists and thier resolve... you CANNOT FIGHT TERRIOSTS with guns... you hvae to fight them with words and actions....... because you can kill 10,000 in a year only means you'll have another 20,000 recruits..... you have to hit them where their numbers are in easy to exploit countries help them to stand up like a brother nad you will have a brother for sure."

So you want to wish away the terrorists?? Maybe we can put them in time out? I agree that guns arent the way to deal with them. We (Americans) have the most advanced military on the planet, why put troops in harms way when you can remove terroist strong holds from existance with MOAB's. Sure there will be loss of civilians, but for the most part they are sheltering and protecting these people anywya, which makes them terrorists..

"so if its going to be equality.... you better be stopping that soccer mom with the 10 kids in the van and searching her for explosves... every freedom that we loose is a victory for the terroists... "

If soccer mom's aren't boming train stations why would you check them? All you are doing is wasting time and possibly letting an acctual terrorist on to his target. It's a sad situation, but you have to work with what you have. Right now the enemy are Middle Eastern Muslim Extremists, sure in New York for example the ratio of innocent hard working Egyptian Cab Drivers to crazed Muslim Extremist Bombers is very weighted in favor of the hard working cab driver, but we can't risk Grand Central Station being blown off the map to save the feelings of a foreign Med Student just looking to catch a ride to class on the sub way. It's unfair, but why waste time checking the Soccer mom just to be "P.C."

If there was a serial killer loose in Boston, and the description was 17-40 year old white males with dark hair and green eyes. I would be horrified If I wasn't stopped every chance the Boston PD got.

Picture this senario. You and your significant other are heading to the subway for work. You both take different trains. As you are approaching the turn style you notice that they are doing random searches of people in line. just as you are about to reach the search area a 20 something Middle Eastern male with a back pack is waved thru without a search the next person in line is your significant other (who isn't a 17-40 yearold Middle Eastern Male) and they are pulled aside and searched. You then pass thru kiss your significant other and head to your seperate trains. Shortly after your significant others train leaves the station, the person who passed thru right before you detonates a 20 lb. backpack bomb killing everyone in your Significant Others car and wounding 100 on the train...................

I have a feeling that you would then change your mind about the search procedures and get off your high horse.

[sandman]

once i was lost in a nasty area of philadelphia (north philly). it's all black and infested with drugs and prostitutes. i had left a party in a neighborhood nearby and made a wrong turn.

cops drove past me, then they turned around, followed me and pulled me over. white guy driving in this neighborhood at 1am isn't looking for the local wawa. they realized i wasn't a junkie or looking for hookers, and i thanked the officers for pulling me over and told them good job.

profiling is ONE tool of many that should be used. no one is saying that ALL middle eastern men should be searched.

it's common sense.

[2NaFish]

white christians have killed more people in the name of god than any other race in existance.

[ppbebe]

hey didnt the allies do that with the japs in WW2?

Hey, isn't calling "the japs" supposed to be racism?

[C0ma]

white christians have killed more people in the name of god than any other race in existance.

If you want to profile based on the crusades go ahead. I'm more concerned about trains and buses being blown up in 2005.

[Prometheus]

"you underestimated the VC .... and you had thousdans dead... your are understmating the teroists and thier resolve... you CANNOT FIGHT TERRIOSTS with guns... you hvae to fight them with words and actions....... because you can kill 10,000 in a year only means you'll have another 20,000 recruits..... you have to hit them where their numbers are in easy to exploit countries help them to stand up like a brother nad you will have a brother for sure."

So you want to wish away the terrorists?? Maybe we can put them in time out? I agree that guns arent the way to deal with them. We (Americans) have the most advanced military on the planet, why put troops in harms way when you can remove terroist strong holds from existance with MOAB's. Sure there will be loss of civilians, but for the most part they are sheltering and protecting these people anywya, which makes them terrorists..

"so if its going to be equality.... you better be stopping that soccer mom with the 10 kids in the van and searching her for explosves... every freedom that we loose is a victory for the terroists... "

If soccer mom's aren't boming train stations why would you check them? All you are doing is wasting time and possibly letting an acctual terrorist on to his target. It's a sad situation, but you have to work with what you have. Right now the enemy are Middle Eastern Muslim Extremists, sure in New York for example the ratio of innocent hard working Egyptian Cab Drivers to crazed Muslim Extremist Bombers is very weighted in favor of the hard working cab driver, but we can't risk Grand Central Station being blown off the map to save the feelings of a foreign Med Student just looking to catch a ride to class on the sub way. It's unfair, but why waste time checking the Soccer mom just to be "P.C."

If there was a serial killer loose in Boston, and the description was 17-40 year old white males with dark hair and green eyes. I would be horrified If I wasn't stopped every chance the Boston PD got.

Picture this senario. You and your significant other are heading to the subway for work. You both take different trains. As you are approaching the turn style you notice that they are doing random searches of people in line. just as you are about to reach the search area a 20 something Middle Eastern male with a back pack is waved thru without a search the next person in line is your significant other (who isn't a 17-40 yearold Middle Eastern Male) and they are pulled aside and searched. You then pass thru kiss your significant other and head to your seperate trains. Shortly after your significant others train leaves the station, the person who passed thru right before you detonates a 20 lb. backpack bomb killing everyone in your Significant Others car and wounding 100 on the train...................

I have a feeling that you would then change your mind about the search procedures and get off your high horse.

i guess you wouldnt bother the guy thats dealing dope outta his van next your local school cause hes not going to blow up the school


seriously you have a double standard...... people get shot everday in the civilian world.... people od on drugs.... etc yet the inaction that is prevelant on the home front is somewhat amazing...... just think what everyday life would be like if they actually profiled and stoped people based on everything.. you would not be able to move now would you... hmmm


and well i cant take that idea that your talking about... as there are no trains here... and where im too.... it would most likely be a whit person that would be doing it...... I get profiled everyday when i go to stores and what not... i get tailed by security all the time... get hard looks when i got to small stores they watch me like im going to steal the whole store.... and guess what im a 25yr old white male that has not broke the law short of underage drinking and speeding.......

get off my high horse... you know what i love my view from here......


 and as for liberal inaction... im hoping to join the Army within the next few months..... to fight for the freedoms that I enjoy and that are enjoyed by my fellow citizens... i feel it is my right to do that....


oh and again to the train thing.... its a moot point..... you ask anyone that and they will agree..... comeon its a bad tactic to use in open debate....... but if you want to use it...... your a muslim male and everywhere you go you are watched stalked and tormented by the cops......... are you happy to deal with it?..... you will say yes im betting...... how about you get picked up by the cops and held under that hold with out being charged crap........just because your 20th cousin was once a member of a terror group... you have never met them.... now you are on a watch list... everythign you do goes through miles of red tape.......you see my point.... the west holds to innocent b4 guilty... seems now we have the guilty till you can prove your not...... are you at all seeing what im saying?



bugging... yes i did argue your point but you argued it back... i think it was a wording problem on our sides...

[Izzy]

Izzy, I don't see a conversation about profiling as being a racist conversation.? It is a prominent topic in world politics right now.? Read a paper.

I do, dear

Any insinuation that muslims are all evil is clearly rascist, but of course thats not what ur thread was doing

[Prometheus]

Izzy, I don't see a conversation about profiling as being a racist conversation.  It is a prominent topic in world politics right now.  Read a paper.

I do, dear

Any insinuation that muslims are all evil is clearly rascist, but of course thats not what ur thread was doing

haha


and ya the japs comment was most likely in bad taste..... i just did not what to spell it out

[2NaFish]

white christians have killed more people in the name of god than any other race in existance.

If you want to profile based on the crusades go ahead. I'm more concerned about trains and buses being blown up in 2005.

If you think i was just talking about the crusades you're very blinkered. And if you think the only terrorist attacks that have taken place lately were in london then you're even more blinkered. The IRA have done far more damage to london over the past 40 years than any other group. Not many muslims in their ranks.

[Charity Case]

We are talking about world wide terror here, not localized terror that affects one country.  Please don't even insinuate that there is any other group in the same league as far as world wide terror goes than those of the muslim extremeists between the age of 17 and 40.  They are causing the majority of it and they are theerefore the enemy.  That is in no way to say that all muslims men between 17 and 40 are terrorists.  Why are some of you having a hard time with this concept.  Profiling is smart, bottom line.  If you are against using intelligent tactics to fight terror, well then what is there left to say. 

[Vicious Wishes]

It never ceases to amaze me how many people on this board seem to be obsessed with America. There's no doubt, we've made terrible mistakes in the past. Some that we'll never get over, nor should we. But we're not all "great satans" as some would suggest. Most of us poor slobs get up everyday and go to a job we hate so we can take care of our families, just like you. Again, we're not perfect, we've made mistakes(still do), but for the most part we just want to keep our children, family and friends safe, happy and healthy, just like you. And if we are so horrible as so many here seem to think, why are people risking life and limb to come here by the thousands. Because we are free, safe(for the most part), and have many opportunities for someone who is hard working, and sincere. Blast me if you want, I'm just a poor slob who goes to work everyday to try and provide a better life for my family.

[2NaFish]

We are talking about world wide terror here, not localized terror that affects one country. Please don't even insinuate that there is any other group in the same league as far as world wide terror goes than those of the muslim extremeists between the age of 17 and 40. They are causing the majority of it and they are theerefore the enemy. That is in no way to say that all muslims men between 17 and 40 are terrorists. Why are some of you having a hard time with this concept. Profiling is smart, bottom line. If you are against using intelligent tactics to fight terror, well then what is there left to say.

keep watching tv. in that little box there is all you need to know ever. If they say the only terrorists are muslim then thats what the truth is.

[Prometheus]

It never ceases to amaze me how many people on this board seem to be obsessed with America. There's no doubt, we've made terrible mistakes in the past. Some that we'll never get over, nor should we. But we're not all "great satans" as some would suggest. Most of us poor slobs get up everyday and go to a job we hate so we can take care of our families, just like you. Again, we're not perfect, we've made mistakes(still do), but for the most part we just want to keep our children, family and friends safe, happy and healthy, just like you. And if we are so horrible as so many here seem to think, why are people risking life and limb to come here by the thousands. Because we are free, safe(for the most part), and have many opportunities for someone who is hard working, and sincere. Blast me if you want, I'm just a poor slob who goes to work everyday to try and provide a better life for my family.

 its not the domestic relations that we dont like... its the foriegn relations.... the whole we got bigger guns you should be afraid of us....... and its not so much that i dont like the us..... its i dont like the leadership as of late.... sees to be hitting rather low in the brain cell dept.

[Vicious Wishes]

It never ceases to amaze me how many people on this board seem to be obsessed with America. There's no doubt, we've made terrible mistakes in the past. Some that we'll never get over, nor should we. But we're not all "great satans" as some would suggest. Most of us poor slobs get up everyday and go to a job we hate so we can take care of our families, just like you. Again, we're not perfect, we've made mistakes(still do), but for the most part we just want to keep our children, family and friends safe, happy and healthy, just like you. And if we are so horrible as so many here seem to think, why are people risking life and limb to come here by the thousands. Because we are free, safe(for the most part), and have many opportunities for someone who is hard working, and sincere. Blast me if you want, I'm just a poor slob who goes to work everyday to try and provide a better life for my family.

 its not the domestic relations that we dont like... its the foriegn relations.... the whole we got bigger guns you should be afraid of us....... and its not so much that i dont like the us..... its i dont like the leadership as of late.... sees to be hitting rather low in the brain cell dept.

Sure as hell isn't the first president we've had that excelled in that area.

[Prometheus]

It never ceases to amaze me how many people on this board seem to be obsessed with America. There's no doubt, we've made terrible mistakes in the past. Some that we'll never get over, nor should we. But we're not all "great satans" as some would suggest. Most of us poor slobs get up everyday and go to a job we hate so we can take care of our families, just like you. Again, we're not perfect, we've made mistakes(still do), but for the most part we just want to keep our children, family and friends safe, happy and healthy, just like you. And if we are so horrible as so many here seem to think, why are people risking life and limb to come here by the thousands. Because we are free, safe(for the most part), and have many opportunities for someone who is hard working, and sincere. Blast me if you want, I'm just a poor slob who goes to work everyday to try and provide a better life for my family.

 its not the domestic relations that we dont like... its the foriegn relations.... the whole we got bigger guns you should be afraid of us....... and its not so much that i dont like the us..... its i dont like the leadership as of late.... sees to be hitting rather low in the brain cell dept.

Sure as hell isn't the first president we've had that excelled in that area.

thats for sure.... but unilaterialism doesnt work... multilaterialism is what needs to be done..... force alone will not defeat an enemy like this...... the more force that is used... and every one that is killed reinforces the resolve of them..... you have to snuff it out from teh ground up and the top down ..... take out the leadership..... but take away the recruits... its like a cancer cell... with out fresh blood it will die... stop the blood win the war.....