Here Today... Gone To Hell!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051026/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_israel;_ylt=AmxYwwnVzIC2f7vSksTdUM2s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3ODdxdHBhBHNlYwM5NjQ-

TEHRAN, Iran -? ? ?Iran's hard-line president called for? ? ?Israel to be "wiped off the map" and said a new wave of Palestinian attacks will destroy the Jewish state, state-run media reported Wednesday.

 
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad also denounced attempts to recognize Israel or normalize relations with it.

"There is no doubt that the new wave (of attacks) in Palestine will wipe off this stigma (Israel) from the face of the Islamic world," Ahmadinejad told students Wednesday during a Tehran conference called "The World without Zionism."

"Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury, (while) any (Islamic leader) who recognizes the Zionist regime means he is acknowledging the surrender and defeat of the Islamic world," Ahmadinejad said.

Ahmadinejad also repeated the words of the founder of Iran's Islamic revolution, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, who called for the destruction of Israel.

"As the imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, who came to power in August and replaced? ? ?Mohammad Khatami, a reformist who advocated international dialogue and tried to improve Iran's relations with the West.

Ahmadinejad referred to Israel's recent withdrawal from the? ? ?Gaza Strip as a "trick," saying Gaza was already a part of Palestinian lands and the pullout was designed to win acknowledgment of Israel by Islamic states.

"The fighting in Palestine is a war between the (whole) Islamic nation and the world of arrogance," Ahmadinejad said, using Tehran's propaganda epithet for the United States and Israel. "Today, Palestinians are representing the Islamic nation against arrogance."

Iran does not recognize the existence of Israel and has often called for its destruction.

Israel has been at the forefront of nations calling and end to Iran's nuclear program, which the United States and many others in the West say is aimed at acquiring weapons of mass destruction. Iran says the program is for generating electricity.

White House press secretary Scott McClellan said Ahmadinejad's comment "reconfirms what we have been saying about the regime in Iran. It underscores the concerns we have about Iran's nuclear intentions."

French Foreign Minister Jean-Baptiste Mattei condemned Ahmadinejad's remarks "with the utmost firmness."

Harsh words for Israel are common in Iran, especially at this time of year, the end of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. In Iran, this Friday ? the last Muslim day of prayer in the Ramadan holiday ? has been declared Quds Day, or Jerusalem Day. Rallies were slated in support of Palestinians ? and against Israel's occupation of parts of the city and other Palestinian lands.

Other Iranian politicians also have issued anti-Israeli statements, in attempts to whip up support for Friday's nationwide Quds Day demonstrations.

But Ahmadinejad's strident anti-Israeli statements on the eve of the demonstration were harsher than those issued during the term of the reformist Khatami and harkened back to Khomeini's fiery speeches. Ahmadinejad was a longtime member of Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards, which even operates a division dubbed the Quds Division, a rhetorical reference to Tehran's hopes of one day ending Israel's domination of Islam's third-holiest city.

After his election, Ahmadinejad received the support of the powerful hard-line Revolutionary Guards, who report directly to supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

Last year, a senior member of the guards attended a meeting that called for and accepted applications for suicide bombers to target U.S. troops and Israelis.

Iran announced earlier this year that it had fully developed solid fuel technology for missiles, a major breakthrough that increases their accuracy.

The Shahab-3, with a range of 810 miles to 1,200 miles, is capable of delivering a nuclear warhead to Israel and U.S. forces in the Middle East.
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There is really a huge problem with thos crazy arabic ayatollahs countries. Barbarians, that's what they are. They will never change. Expect a preventive military strike against Iran "soon". Iran has always been MUCH more dangerous than Irak. And in Iran, we know they have the nuclear weapon. More generally, the arabic world is a real desaster. Nothing new though, their volunty to "wip off the mad" Israel and to dominate the world with their barbarian beliefs has always been their goal.

That's where we disagree - bombing is not the solution ! Too bad the moderates (in their terms) didn't succeed to open up the country while they were in power !  :P

Rain, the problem with those kind of people is that you can't discuss with them. They want to rule the world. using Force is, unfortunately, the olnly solution to stop them before they destroy everything. They are not like you, like me, they are like Bin-Laden.

Did the bombs make a difference ?
Leaders say stupid things and it's the people that are getting bombed - Think about it !  ;)

When I said bombing them, I meant bombing their nuclear installation like Osirak in 1982. Not civilians.
And you know as much as me (well I hope), that this is not just "stipid comments" comming from Iran, They are not joking, they are serious.

bombing also is what USA is doin in Irak, or what USA did in Vietnam... also bombing is what USA did in Hirochima and Nagasaki...

as wrong as what the iran leader said ...

you're actin just like them.

and the smart people who are in israel are the ones who try to work and get closer to palestine and such.
you're behaving like an extremist.

as long as we have extremist on both sides (iran, palestine, israel right wing ...) then we wont move on. let the moderates do the job and step aside ;)

ever heard that the pen is mightier than the ak-47 ? (or whatever ... ;) )

well for a country thats trying to rule the world, theyre not doing very well...they sure are happy to stay in their own country...i dont see them invading anyone...the definition of "rule the world" sure has changed over the years hasnt it

i dont think Palestinians bombed. it was a paid set up

There's really no need for such cheap shots.


How do you intend to that when the hard liners in Iran would not allow the moderates to do the job?

This is not a country (iran) that wants to rule the world, this is an ideology: islamism. And it's everywhere. From Europe to Bali, from Djakarta to USA.
Iran is just an interface.

au contraire of judaism and christiannity ;)

religion is everywhere. that's their job. so please.

No it's not. Jihad is specific to one religion.

in the recent history of the world there has never been one single ideology that has, as you put it, ruled the world and it's unlikely to happen because human ideals are spread across a wide spectrum...is that the best argument you can muster?

There were nazis.
Anyway, IQ what's your problem? the subject is "Iran Leader calls for Israel's destruction" - what do you think of that? same for whatever dieudonne. Answer to THAT point.

well the problem is that you use that to display as the SINGLE evil in the world.
there is evil everywhere.
israel is evil.
palestine (in some extent is evil)
france, usa ... everybody.

you are always pointing muslim as evil. it's wierd. it's like a fixation.

Yes, it's unlikely that their ideology will ever "rule the world." But, to get back on topic, it doesn't mean that the supporters of that extreme ideology would not attempt to rule the world. What happens once they have nuclear weapons? Keep in mind that the range of their missiles will encompass the "infidels" in Europe, Israel and India, not the "infidels" in the Americas.

He was pointing at the extremists who call for jihad, not Muslims in general. Could we stop with the cheap shots and off topic rants. And you still haven't answered the question I asked you.

I was just posting a yahoo news. As far as i know, i never heard france israel or USA say "we will destroy this country". Whatever dieudonne, I think it makes you on nerve to see Iran acting like nazis, you feel unconfortable because they look like you, you have the impression to be "targeted", but i'm not responsible of that man, neither are france, israel USA or western countries, they are responsible of their own desaster. And the problem is they want to ruin other countries, that's where the problem is. To compare,, it's like a bad pupil in classromm who doesnt work and who blames good pupils for his own failure. That's the drama of the arabic world. They blame others for their own failure. They don't have the right to ruin the world, other countries and other cultures and religions because of their immense failure with modernity. I don't have anything against muslims, i just wonder WHY they need to attack and terrorize the rest of the world to exist.
Why so much hatred? Where does it come from? Why do they need their Jihad to exist?

Ultimately, the key to peace is recognizing other cultures differences and accepting them. Religious extremism, is always dangerous with any culture. Convincing people to kill in the name of god has been happening for thousands of years, and Iran is doing it today.

very true. That's an intelligent comment. I agree. However Iran is not the only country, syria, saudia arabia or pakistan aren't better.

well first, as GnRFL said, we have to accept and reccognize differences.

the way i see things, is that i put all the bad guys in the same bag: the sionist israel extremist, the crazy americans mofos, the crazies jihadists THEY ARE THE SAME TO ME.

what that iran leader said, is for me as stupid as israel bombing kids.

voil?.

but to go back on topic. a violent response like you always think of ( " they only understand bombs " you know what's funny? that is EXACTLY what Dieudonn? said in one of his sketch about arabs he went " arabs only understands bombs, 3 doses, morning, lunch, and dinner ?.." ... so here is your way of thinking ... )

i'm saying, you should be more peaceful and always try to look at the diplomatic, nice way to solve problems. if not, you're just as evil as the people you're hating.

PEACE

The sionist aren't extremist. You think they are extremist because you watch way too much dieudonne and proably discuss way too much with ignorant people on gnrfrance in the LBO section with a dramatic low knowledges level on that subject. read that book and then, maybe, one day you'll be less ignorant on that subject.

(http://www.librairie-lamartiniere.com/boutique/images_produits/84675056.jpg)

read also that MARTIN LUTHER KING DECLARATION: http://www.juedisches-archiv-chfrank.de/antisemit/mlk_azion.htm (traduced in french, scroll down)
Quote: "(...)And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe. It is discrimination against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short, it is anti-Semitism."

well for some people in afganistan Ben Laden is a great guy ... so go figure .....

So you see sionists as ben laden??it's aka-aka right? same shit. : ok:
Your ignorance will kill you... I have question whetever dieudonne: where did you learn all this sionist fantasma? does it come from your education? Did your parents, or family, learn you sionist is "devil" when you where younger? Did you learn it at school? I mean where does it come from?
This book was written in collaboration with SOS racism, Malek Boutikh, and great journalists as Alexandre Adler...so are you still in your ben-ladenish sionist paranoia?? :hihi:

You've lost the game.

Good night? ;)

i guess.
i dont care about sionist. i just hate religion in general. so i dont like judaism and christianity and islam. simple :)

and dieudonne is indeed funny :) dont take his stuff too seriously.

i dont wanna know about sionism because i dont care. i have a game concept to write i'm busy :)

stop advocating war and violence. you're drowning :)

I think a good religious person of any faith is one who lives his life by example and not infringing on others. Christians, Jews and Muslims have both types of people.

What is the solution?  Wait until they have nuclear weapons that can hit Israel?  It will take years for the UN to vote on a resolution, which would most likely be vetoed, and then take years as we have to watch the resolutions fail.  Meanwhile, Israel is sweating as country that wants to destroy them is developing nuclear weapons.

Your solution is bombing ?

Mine is indeed to use UN ! I may be an idealistic person but I believe in International rights. So we will bomb a country because its leader is a nutcase that say stupid things ? Guess what, seen the other way around many people on this globe might have thought that "you're with us or against us" and "axis of evil" were pretty stupid too.

No, you bomb them because they are talking about destroying another country as they are building up a stockpile of nuclear weapons.  Do we just let them build it and pray that they were just joking with their Rabbi buddies accross the Tigris?

Certainly, I am not suggesting bombing them right away.  However, if we go to the UN on this one, Iran will have nuclear weapons.  If you want to compare our comment on fighting terrorism with Iran's comment about the destruction of Israel and the Jews than go ahead.  Thats on your shoulders.

In History, there have always been people, political regims, countries, empires, who wanted to exterminate the jews. You though it stopped with the Nazis? the arabic world has taken the succession. Today, that's their dream. They are animated by hatred. Iran is one arabic country among anothers. Saddam hussein wanted to do it during years, France (yeah dear France...you know the country who delivers nuclear reactor to Saddam hussein, the country where the "quai d'orsay" is working with tons of dictatorships to keep their contracts and the country who gives moral lessons to the entire world) helped him to build the nuclear reactor Osirak in 1982...for a question of money. Isreal destroyed it. During the Gulf War, all along the 80's and during the Gulf war, Saddam Hussein had chemical Skuds, he didn't use them on Israel (although he wanted to use them) because Israel told him id he did, they would use nuclear weapon, but Hussein used his chemical weapons against the kurds. Al Quaida, although they are "busy" with the Americans at the momment, have always said they wanted to destroy Israel and to exterminate the jews. Syria, Iran, Lybia formed palestinians Kamikaze in the 80's/90's early 2000's to make suicide bombing attacks in Israel. Yasser Arafat, used terrorism during 30 years against Israel, he claimed several times, that his dream was to "walk on Jerusalem with million of Martyrs". The Arababic world hatred is not new. The jews and Israel are the first one on the list for them, but don't be naive, they want exactly the same for Europe, Christians, USA, and Asia. This is called the Jihad. It is NOT an exageration to consider them as the Nazis, or at least, Nazis wanabees, of our modern erea. This is serious.

Let's comme back to the original yahoo news 2 seconds. 6th LINE: "Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury"
I think it's pretty clear isn't it?

I don't believe in opposition when it comes down to resolving tensions ... And I do think saying Iran was part of an axis of evil was a stupid comment ! And in no way I am defending what the nutcase in Iran said about Israel.

So if you don't want to bomb right away and you don't want to deal this with UN what is your call on this matter right now ?

But that's what they are. let's call a cat "a cat". they should be excluded of the UN. The day you will be forced to wear a djelaba, stay at home, getting beaten by your husband (in the islamic law, women beating is authorized), and beeing murdered buy lapidation (what a barbarian custom, it's incredible)...maybe you will uunderstand who they are...and what they want.
That's what they are, and they are serious. We are not talking about nice people here with whom you'll take a cofee a sunday afternoon, we are talking about Ayatollahs.Wasn't the 9/11 enough? Do people need more to understand what they want and what they are ready for to achieve their madness? and madrid? and London? and bali? what were there? Christmas presents?
When people will uinderstand? What do they wait for? a nuclear attack? "ohh, iran used nuclear weapon, ohh.. we didn't know...ohh...what a desaster... we didn't know..." That's not good to be naive. It's dangerous,and not responsible.

I got the World War III blues.

you're one angry man.

against nazi Ayatollahs who want to "wipp of the map" israel? yes I am. The contrary would be suspect to me...

Iran wants Isreal Wiped off the map, but they want nuclear energy only for peaceful purposes? I hope the Iranians realize what a fanatic they have in power and overthrow him & the religious zealots who hold the real power there.

Can you clue me in as to what this means?

Yah, how can we call a nation that preaches the annihilation of another nation evil. ::)


I think we steadfastly pursue diplomacy that might be able to put out this growing fire.  I do not believe it will work however.  It will come down to those want to send it to the UN and wait for Iran to have a fully developed arsenal and those that don't want to risk that.  Sadly, I think it is inevitable.  Too bad Bush wasted our support and resources on Iraq.  I don't think we will get much support at all in tackling the situation with Iran, which is why Iran will continue to get stronger and stronger.  They know the US can't engage in another war right now.

What what means ? That I don't believe in opposition when it comes down to resolving a conflict ? what is it you don't understand ? I'm for diplomacy at work - take action at the UN level - not resort to the same stupidiest comments and set the whole thing on fire. You, know, just being the civilized people we so much claim to be !

And finally we agree on something, we are not for bombing them because of this comment, which was my point since the start - we disagree when it comes down to the UN issue - an issue in itself.

Rain, here is where you are wrong: you think it's just a one crazy leader declaration, the fact is that israel's destruction is what the Iranian people want. This is not "just" a one leader opinion, Iranian citizens are totally fanatized, fanatized by the islamic political regim, fanatized by hatred.
http://fr.news.yahoo.com/28102005/5/manifestations-anti-israeliennes-en-iran.html

It says 1 million people calling for israel's destruction, not the only Iranian President, but 1 million fanatized Iranians, out of control.
Once again, the people there are fanatized, not just one leader.

It is time to do the job and exclude Iran from the UN and from the international Community. This is an "?tat voyou".

Nothing to kill or die for, and no religion too - John Lennon

Fuck religion honestly it has brought more harm then good. Constant killing in the name of god over sooooooo many centurys. I cant wait for one day for the world to be cult free.

Yes I know lots of countries have religion inspired laws and stuff like that.

But honestly religion does more harm then good.

Oh that includes you know Christainity, Islam, Judaism, all the major ones.

I'm not too sure about Buddaism but they must go too!

It's not because Islamism brings problems all over the world that the other religions should be considered in the same league...
and I don't think it's (only) a question of religion (islam), but a question of political regims and dictatorships also.
Marocco or Tunisia aren't extremists.

100% wrong. Jihad is derived from another Arabic word Jihaar, which means to struggle. Jihad is a fight for struggle. thats the accurate definition.

For jews (and others Hitler disliked), WW2 was a jihad because it was a fight for struggle.

No, the Jihad, other written "Djihad", is a war for the islamic nation to rule the world. I repeat it's specific to one religion, the one wich authorizes to beat women, death by lapidation, and to use the Charia law (or Sharia) instead of democractic laws.

Anyway Sakib, what do you think of this Iranian thing?

Sure, I believe that there are extremists who want that, but to say the Iranian people all want that is a bit drastic don't you think?

When you don't have access to information the way we do, you tend to belive what you're told by your leader.




/jarmo

A lot of student aged Iranians want more freedom and oppose the clerical regime. Unfortunately the regime is a lot stronger than the reform movement there.

So we are back to the nazi propaganda and the debate "were the german people reponsible of the jewish holocaust?". The History shown the german people were responsible of what happened, and not only the Hitler governement. It was a collective collaboration, from everybody in germany. It's too easy to say "ohh well, that's just the governement". The 1 million fanatized people called for israel's destruction know what they are doing. They want it.

Iran is becoming (or simple is) the modern nazi country of our erea. Totalitarism, islamism, and volunty to extermine Israel and the jews are what they are and what they want. They say it. Iran should be banned of the international community.

Even the people who saved Jews?



These extremists are on both sides of the fence. I'm sure you could find people in Israel who'd be happy to kill all Muslims. I'm also sure you can find Christian people who'd like to see all gay people dead, but that doesn't mean all Christian people are like that.



Yeah, all non-democratic countries should be in one way or another.




/jarmo

Very, very few germans saved jews. However, lots of french saved jews.

Jarmo, all is a question of proportion. The iranian people are fanatized because it's been almost 30 years (1979) that the "islamic revolution" (it started with ayatollah khomeini) have taken the power. 30 years of massive brainwashing create a dangerous country. Imagine all the people born after 1979, they have been taugh to kill the jews, to destruct israel, that America is the devil, that Christians are insane etc... that's what make them dangerous as a whole.
Irania makes me think to the Nazi regim of the early 30's, but with the nuclear bomb. We have to stop them. "We" is the International community, the world. They say what they want to do and be sure when they are ready, they will do it. isn't that enough clear? I don't understand the passivity. What do some people want? a new Auschwitz?

I would add Syria, is also in the target line because of their massive support to terrorism.
It is time to clean-up the middle east.

Well Nesquick, if you want the Middle east cleaned up so bad then why don't you join the armed forces and go over there yourself?  It is easy to talk about doing this or that when your ass isn't on the line.  Most of the Arab countries have hated Israel since Day 1 and Israel continues to thrive and kick their asses when needed.  It's time to clean up China?  Cuba?  Columbia?  N Korea?  Where does it stop?

so you ask for passivity right? no action? let's Iran wipp off the map Israel...."ohh...anybody has chips with ketchup again? let's eat in front of TV, this nuclear attack is spectacular, i don't want to miss a second".

I don't say it's easy, I say it needs to be done.

The people who banned religion under the pretext that it causes more harm than good, be it the Soviet Union or communist China, ended up killing a lot more people than were ever killed "in the name of God." How do you explain that?

The only "Christians" you would find who want to see gay people dead are in an insane asylum, or they should be in one. That goes against the main teachings of Jesus. There is no need to slander Christianity like that Jarmo. No real Christian would want such a hideous thing.

But I'm glad you brought this up, because in Iran homosexuality really is punishable by death and they do actually see that gay people are dead if they find them out. Over 4000 lesbians and gay men have been executed since the Ayatollahs seized power in 1979.

http://direland.typepad.com/direland/2005/07/iran_executes_2.html

good point. As I said, it's not really a question of religion, but a question of political regims, totalitarism and dictatorships. Iran is a dangerous cocktail on that point. Once again, it is time to make something against the Iranian political regim.

As a muslim, the situation in Israel is appaling. I'm angry at them for treating Palestinians like shit. Israel is a rich country excluding Palestine. Israelis took everything from Palestinians and they have nothing; literally fuck all. Their olive trees (olives used extensively for skin treatment and cooking) had even been destroyed, which was their last resort. i saw a documentary and believe me, the Israelis lived it up. They accuse the Palestinians of so much yet it's so self inflicted.

I believe the two religions need to co-operate. secondly, as a muslim, we all pray that they convert to islam, thus solving many problems.

Isn't that what Israel is attempting to do, cooperate?  Sadly, we are seeing the true colors of a good portion of the Palestinians.

It is just poor and sad what some people say and think in here. Has one of you ever been to Iran? I guess no. Well, my girlfriend is from Iran and a big part of her family lives there, while others do live in Germany, France, Netherlands, USA, UK.
Iran is a great country with a deep and old culture. And I gotta tell you a few things about Iran. Anyone of you read Aristoteles and all the other Greek philosophers? Well, while christianity ruled the world some centuries ago and killed millions of civilians, it was Iran who kept these books. That's the reason why they're still here. Otherwise they would have been burned up.

One compared Mahmod Ahmadinedjad to the Nazis. You don't know anything about the Nazis, right? I'm German and I know how hard it is to live in a country with such a past.

One said that all Iranians want to destroy Israel. You believe all the propaganda, right? The extremists, believe me, I know that country very well, are a minority.

You think bombing is the only way?

I give you a little history of just a few things the USA did within the last 100 years:

USA supported Reza Shah in Iran. Because Reza Shah secured that the US had control over the Iranian oil. Meanwhile Reza murdered and tortured millions of people in Iran. Some of these people that were tortured are friends of mine.
In the fifties, Mahammad Mossadegh became a president of Iran, who was appreciated by the people, who did not harm anybody and who respected democratic rights. And he was right when he said that the Iranian oil belonged to Iran. The USA didn't like that. The CIA forced Mossadegh out and reinstalled the Shah. With him, of course, torture and repression returned.

A little history of Irak: Did you ever ask yourself why in that country there are three ethnic/religious groups who really don't like each other? Well, the borders of Irak where drawn by GB and the USA during the First World War, just to complement their own interests. Without that, many of today's problems would not exist.

In 2001, the US bombed Afghanistan to bring democracy to the country. Well, did you know who installed the Taliban regime in Afghanistan? Right, it was the US in order to fight Russia during the cold war. And it was the US as well, who trained Bin Laden back then.

Twenty years ago Irak had WMD. Guess who helped them get those weapons? Right, the US. They supported Saddam in killing countless people in order to get rid of the Ajytollahs in Iran.

Why are the Ajatollahs in Iran? Well, people wanted a change from the Shah regime and Ajatollah Chomeini told the people in 1979 that he would actually bring a change. NOt many wanted the change that actually happened. Torture and repression is still there.

Now the USA bombed Irak. They said because of WMD. There were no WMD and the US knew that very well. They said because of Irak supporting Al Quaida. Saddam never supported Bin Laden, he was his enemy. After they had killed countless civilians, the USA made it possible for Al Quaida to invade Irak. That's the situation right now. Oh and btw the USA now control Iraks oil.

And while the US intend to bomb Iran, they support evil regimes like Pakistan, Usbekistan, Saudi Arabia, etc. THE USA don't care about the people. The people live with repression, torture etc under their regimes. Or they get killed by the US forces. If a regime does not support the US, it is a part of "the axis of evil" (that expression is the most stupid I heard in years, you can't divide the world in good/evil) and has to be bombed. If it does support, the US don't care very much about what the regime does to his own country.

That's moral, isn't it?

Iran is a wonderful country and me as well as most Iranians (including Azam Ali, who sings on Bucketheads newest Album "Enter The Chicken") are very angry at Mr. Ahmadinedjad.

Violence is never the right way.

/lastroots

Israel LOOKS to co-operate but they're not. Trust me, I know because my 2nd cousin is an active journalist for a Pakistani newspaper.

I didn't slander anything, only in your mind did I slander Christianity.

There are extremists in every religion, there are scum in every nation. Not just the "uncivilized" world.

Some extremists hide behind religion to make their beliefs seem more "legit". They take a book and interpret it one way so they can spread their hatred to others.



/jarmo

Here is the BIG drama of the arabic world: when others succeed (Israel and more generally the Occident), and you don't, you take them as responsibles of your own failure. It's called jalousy. Where are the arabic intellectuals? how many nobel prices? you are 1.5 billion, the jews are 13 million. When your neighbor is rich, and when you are poor, it's not because they stole you, but just because they succeed, because they work for it, and you don't, you just complain.

A good pupil doesn't "steal" the good marks to bad ones. when your neighbor got a A and you got a D, he didn't steal you anything.

The drama of the arabic world is that you are unable to advance. You always find responsibles of your own failure, isreal, the jews, USA, Europe and so on... Stop with islamism, get democracy, be modern, stop with hatred, stop with totalitarism, stop with dictators, educate your children (instead of teaching them how to become suicide bombs!), stop the brainwashing, to sum-up, just evolve, and thing will be better for you. It's not others fault if you are unable to succeed.?Nobody "hates" you, we just wonder why, yeah, why you have so much hatred against the rest of the world. Where does it come from? When i see on TV 1 million iranian people calling for israel's destruction, when i see the palestinians screaming of joyce in Gaza 5 minutes afetr the 9/11, while the USA and Bill Clinton did great things for the palestinians and for the middle east in the mid 90's, I just don't understand where all this hatred comes from.

The most neutral of all sources, I'm sure.


I see more people attacking Israel and the USA than I see attacking Iran.  Wait a second, are we are the UN?

im sorry im not tring to be an ass here but what is it your tring to say?

yes i know im bad for it.... but ya know.....

All the UN could do is feel "dismay" over Iran's comments. Wanting to destroy another country deserves more than a feeling of dismay.

What will the UN do if Iran drops a nuclear weapon on Israel? Offer sensitivity training to the clerics?  The UN is spineless and is becoming irrelevent in solving disputes between nations.

I meant, "are we at the UN."

Personally, I think Israel gets the shaft at the UN.  I think there are more at the UN that blame Israel for the Israel-Palestinian conflict than those on the other side.  I would think absolutely everyone woul be astonished that a world leader would make the comments that the President of Iran made.  I guess I am wrong.

You are right berkeley. UN is massively anti-israelian, and has has always been. UN is full of countries such as iran, syria, saudia arabia, Lybia etc...who spend their time blaming israel because of all the resons i mentionned above. UN is a joke, I didn't agree with the war in Irak, but i agree? with America when they say "we know better than the UN how to protect our own country". Same for israel. If israel had listened to UN, this country wouldn't have existed anymore.

Expect israel preventive military strikes against Iran (and probably against Syria first) in the next 1 or 2 years. The job needs to be done, the job is to put to zero the nuclear installations of iran and the syrian regim (supporting palestinian terrorism). Israel already did that in 1982 with the Irakian nuclear reactor (Osirak), offered to Saddam Hussein by...France. Dont count on the UN to do it when it's about Israel's security. They never did, and probably never will.

I'm sorry but if this is the only policy to make the arabic world understand they have not the right to behave like that , let's do it. Nothing's new. As always they will cry "ouah ouah we are poor ouah ouah we are humiliated" and blablabla...once they will understand the problems come from them, once they will understand some countries are not ready to accept terrorism, never, ever, once the arabic masses will understand their poverty comes from their owns dictators who stole them, who stole their money to control them, who use the money for terrorism and not to feed their own population, maybe thing are going to be better for them.

The arabic world needs a democratic revolution - too bad when some students in turkey make manifestations against the political regim - they are shot by the army and send to silence again...

Expect there to be a lot of backlash against Israel, despite the fact that a nearby country developing nukes preaches Israel's destruction.

Whatever israel does and will do, they will always be critizized. Hatred will never stop. It's been like that for 2000 years. I think they know more than anybody how to protect themsef. Tsahal will do the job that needs to be done. if they consider iran is about to send a nuclear weapon, they will act before it happens. like any other country in the world. France would do the same if tomorow, Algeria says "we will wip off the map france". if it happens, I guess the France reaction will be obviously, as always, hypocrit. They would refuse to israel what they would have been ready to do for themself: prevent. ?Anyway, European-syrian relationships are deterioring, so it's not impossible we will get a coalition, at least a political one. But Don't count on the french "quai d'orsay" to show some courage. They always put their pant down when it's time to act. Too much contracts. No balls when it's time to act. A collaboration with the worst dictatorships is highly recommended at "quai d'Orsay" when you have to keep your contracts. See the whole saddam hussein regim- French politicians money commissions :hihi:

in front of the cameras "saddam hussein is a horrrrrible dictator!"
Under the table "saddam, thanks for our french oil contracts, thanks for the commissions"

France is comical when it's about middle east. Look, one of the biggest terrorist ever (arafat) was received as? the messiah in France just before he died, they played "la marseillaise" for him, national funerals :o. Who's next? saddam hussein? bachar el assad? mobutu? pyang yang??

hey take a break. you're french. calm down. breath. drink some coca cola.  breath.
you're too angry. you gonna have a heart attack if you continue like that ...

people who are aggressive and violent and such extremist in their opinions (you never see the good but on your side, you're like darth vader :) ) can't be taken seriuosly.

you're too agressive :)

Looks like nobody read my post.

However, here's one for you and your narrow minded Prejeduces, nesquick:

Stop talking, stop listening to what they say on tv (esp. in the US), just go to one of these countries and open your damn eyes.

These people work harder than any of us. It is not the people's fault that these countries are poor. It's their governments fault. And for the intellectuals: There are countless in Iran, they just have a problem: They can't talk to much if they don't want to get killed. It's as simple as that. And if you need those who talk:

Shirin Ebady (Peace nobel price)

Abbas Maroufy (writer, lives just 20 minutes from me and left Iran when the regime tried to kill him)

Navid Kermani (orientalist, writer, lives here in Cologne as well)

Sadegh Hedayat (Writer, killed)

Forough Farrochsad (writer, killed)

There are hundreds more, I can't list them all.

Of couurse it is not right what Ahmadinedjad said. But it is not right as well what Israel is doing and what they did since they were installed in Palestine. Yes, of course, it was right to give the Jews their own country, especially after WWII, but how did that happen? Did anyone ask the people in Palestine? No! The land was stolen, that's a fact. The way it happened was damn wrong and that's just one of the reasons there is hatrewd against Israel in the Arabian countries. Still it is a minority.

/lastroots

Groups like Islamic Jihad ( funded by Iran) is what is ruining the prospect for a Palestinean state. I think the average Jew & the average palestinean can coexist next to each other. Also, the narrow minded religious fanatics (on both sides)are the ones who cause the most problems.

I went to about 500 metters of Gaza. If i entered, i would have been murdered, just because I'm jew. it's strictly forbidden to enter gaza. There are checkpoints, because gaza is dangerous. The impression I had it that it was like a fronteer between the democratic world and the islamic one. Also people with an Israeli passport are forbidden to enter lots of arabic countries such as saudia arabia, syria, lebanon, iran etc...I call that racism. You'll never see an arabic beeing forbidden to enter in Israel, exept if he is a terrorist of course. We agree to say "It is not the people's fault that these countries are poor. It's their governments fault" , that's what I said when I talked about political regims and dictators. But those dictators control people's mind, and when those dictators say "Israel is the devil, we must fight? the sionism enemy, israel will be wipped of the map, jihad, jihad, martyr, martyr", well, the people become slowly totally brainwashed and got hatred.
 
Concerning israel, nothing was stollen. There were already jews in what we call now Israel. There have always been jews for over 3500 years. there was a plan at UN in 1947 (one of the only thing the UN did good about Israel), it was legit, approoved by the International community. But the arabic countries didn't accept this plan. I find that incredible that israel is the only state of the planet not beeing recognized by a couple of countries. besides, Israel was nothing at the begining, it was sand. Tel-aviv didn't exist , it was sand, and desert. The jews worked hard, especially through "kibboutz" and created this country. They built it. they still continue to build it. This is a ultra-modern country now, they are at the top of the hight technology, Bill gates says it better than me http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051026/tc_afp/israelustechnology_051026160611

All that great Israel "'miracle", economical and technological, put lots of arabic countries on nerves, because they are poor, under-developped, can't get out of their economical desaster, and see Israel with a lot of jealousy.? In French we call that "la convoitise". It's a little bit different from jealousy, but very similar too. They can't stand that Israel can live and succeed, they want this country to fail and to deseapear. Hoppefully, the relashionships are good with some arabic countries such as Egypt and jordania, who recognized Israel. there are economical partenarias and it's good. Sometimes it works with some arabic countries. But unfortunately, Iran syria or saudia arabia are far less "cooperative" with israel than egypt or jordania. And as long as they will want the war, they will loose. And they will not develop themselves.

I think they should all start to put money in their Economy, instead of putting money to build terrorist organisations or nuclear weapons for their irealistic "Jihad".? Why the Iranian president didn"t use all the money to improve the iranian economy, instead of building missiles to "wipp off" the map israel? The Jihad will never work, they should drop that shit, and start to think about the arabic masses, think about the people, to feed them first, and to developp the global economy in a second step. But they want war. And that's what is terrible. They use their energy to destruct, not to build.

Never did Jesus Christ say anything about killing gays. On the contrary, he said treat others as you would have them treat you. If somebody says they want to see all gay people dead, they can not possibly be Christian. When you say "you can find Christian people who'd like to see all gay people dead," that's SLANDER.

Of course the Jews did a great job in building up Israel, I never questioned that. And I never questioned that there were Jews before and that they are "in the right place". But still it did not work right. Not everything approved by the international community is right. The international community (who didn not want to have anything to do with the Jews until 1947, until they got a strong movement and gained publicity worldwide) was forced to do so after WWII and also they wanted to stop all the talking. You know what I mean as you seem to know the history.

Next: As I told you, the people in Iran work very hard. It is in fact the government who pulls the plug again and again, just as when Ahmadinedjad was elected. A friend of mine is the son of an architect living in Teheran. He had countless activities going all over the world, he was doing some big projects, inbetween he build schools for children in the poorer areas of Iran with the help of the money he got out of his international projects. That is no more. Ahmadinedjad stooped nearly all international economic activities.

The other thing is your or "our" western view of economy. The arab and persian countries have a very different culture. And they don't think that what the outcome of economic fixiation in the west is, is good. I think they are indeed right in some way. The economic fixiation in Europe or the US is just ugly in some parts. You can't put our models and ways of dealing with such things onto them. Which does not mean to deny it completely. And that's not what most people over there are doing.

Next, the brainwashing thing. You're not completely wrong, of course. There is brainwashing going on. But especially the younger people (over 60 % are under 25 in Iran) are definately not brainwashed. As well as a lot of the older ones. All they want is to be free, especially to speak their minds without fear.

Think about it. Of course I don't want the Iranian regime, and most Iranians don't want it, too. But you don't solve that problem with bombing. Bombing solved nothing in Irak, it just made the situation worse. It would be the same in Iran. The civilians would get killed. You can't bomb innocents to solve problems, but that's what happens. And as a result - see Irak - the hatred towards the west in general and the USA grows, of course. The people just see death, death, death. But their lives don't go better.

And what I wanted to say before was - the US don't care if these countries are democracies. As I pointed out in my earlier post. It's Bushs "either you're with or against us", no matter how you act towards the innocents.

/lastroots

Lastroots, you have lots of good points. I agree, and i hope you are right for the younger generation who wants more freedom. Great post. Nothing more to add.? :peace:

Lastroots you are not the only one that knows someone Persian.  My best friend in college was Persian.  I am sure there are good people still there, but ask any Persian person here why they are here.

Of course you can't condemn a whole nation because of its leaders, however, its leader is the one with the trigger on the nukes.

Wait there Nesquick, back that freight train up, cause your tiring to ship a load of crap all over the place!!


If I were to walk down any street in Detroit with a sign ?I hate Niggers? I would be murdered. Would you walk down a street in Gaza with a big Israeli flag on your ass? Or even if you were Jewish would you scoff at every Palestinian that you seen? I guess not. If your there and you?re Jewish and your actually helping them, they are not going to kill you???



Now do you call it racism when a US citizen is only allowed 2 weeks entry to a country and a Canadian is allowed an indefinite stay? How about countries where you have to apply for an entry visa to get in unless you?re a friendly nation to them? All of these Arabic countries you speak of despite having an Israeli passport you can gain entrance through entry visas?.. Wait is that racism? ?Hell you got to have a Visa to visit the US in a lot of cases.


Is that not looking down upon those people as being inferior to you? Should it not fall to the people to stand and make right the wrongs that are being done to them? It may be the government?s fault that the country is in slings, but in reality what is the power that these dictators use to control them?? that?s right Fear. Once the people no longer fear the leader and is willing to stand the dictator has no power.


However, this ties into the above statement from me as well, does not the west use these same words to instill fear at all costs into the minds of its own citizens. You bet it does. I keeps the populace in line with what the government is doing. Remoe the fear from the populace and they start to question what has been done, on their behalf. Propaganda is a powerful tool that when used wisely can damage a entire culture. The lines that we see are one sided, by now most of us have had some type of contact with the Qur?an, and what the belief structures of Muslim faith is. In some sects they do not believe that women are equal, they are treated more as slaves then people. But truly is this more different then our own western religious views in the past. IMO the Qur?an is a more accurate physical book of teaching, and the new testaments are more of a philosophical book of teaching. If you take both books and remove what they suck at and combine the book one great book would be created and it would be understandable and concise. But we are lead to believe that the Qur?an is a book of falsehoods in essence.
 

Chinese Taipei (aka Taiwan) is recognized as an independent country from only 26 ountries and territories out of
nearly 300 all over the globe. It is not recognized as a sate even by the US.


I tend to agree with you on this for the entire world as a whole, if the money used to fund militaries and war mongering was actually put to a use of something constructive like economic growth, development of green energy, etc then the world could be a better place.


However one thing that you should realize is that any type of nuclear strike on Israel will result in a retaliation strike by NATO and chances are it will not be a nuke strike. Unless it is the best option.

So wearing an Israeli flag is equivilant to wearing a sign saying "I hate Niggers."  I'll assume that you didn't think about this analogy much before you wrote it. 

Under the latter, it is the person's personal identity and ethnicity that is offensive.  Under the former, it is the person offending other cultures which is offensive.

Actually, that's exactly what you just did.

I won't bother to address every bit of your crap, but as someone who was born and raised in a repressive totalitarian government, I can't help but comment on this:


You obviously have absolutely no idea what it's like to live under a dictatorship. Didn't you notice what lastroots said about the intellectuals who tried to stand up? They either managed to escape form Iran or they are dead. How do you expect these people to stand up and make things right under those circumstances? You might as well call for all moderate people in Iran to commit mass suicide? ::)

Well Canadians tend to not piss off the whole world. Unlike America we dont you know Police people, we are peacekeepers.

The foundation the constitution of America is great no doubt about that, the American dream I love it, I have an American background Irish American.

The thing wrong with America is its foreign policy. You just cant expect the world to be like yeah America!

Examples: Vietnam, Iraq, Cuba....

The most of the world sees Americans as cocky, arrogant, and a police force.

Now I dont believe that is completly correct, but if you look at the foreign policy you can truly agrue that cause.

Americans are great, but its the selected few and  the powerful assholesl that are the problem.

But you get that in every society, but still theres only one superpower right now and thats the United States of America.

I will agree with the dude who said the UN is bullshit because it is. The UN basically will be like ill write you a letter type of thing. They are pussys. What the UN needs is a backbone a leader that will stick up for human rights and human dignity. Kofi Annan dropped the ball and hes a disgrace. 

No way in hell should genocide be happening in the world right now, eg in Africa. No way should human right violations be acceptable eg China. No way should an Australian man should be sent to the galllows for smuggling drugs in Singapore.

In conclusion the United Nations is just bullshit now and is looking more and more like the League of Nations.

How can the UN allow members with murderous leaders. Fuck that shit.

In conclusion

God Bless America and Canada!

 North America 4 Life!

didnt ahve to read it already knew it so can it!

but lets see what happend all over teh world reveloutions..... right? ya.... so france would still be a monarchy if not for revolution........ what happened there.... the people revolted right....... fuck b'y get a clue

edit: actualy it wasnt a train load of crap that i spewed out at all...... it was a train load of crap in your eyes not reading waht was said.

it has the same equalivancy for teh point being made that if you treate them like they are less then they will resent you for what you appear to be. you dont make yourself a target to any group that could be willing to kil you for showing that you are totaly agnist them. so it works out just fine

Maybe I should refresh your memory of what I actually said:




They present themselves as Christian, Muslim or whatever, but they're nothing but an extremist hiding behind a religion.


Now, go on and play with the words again to make it seem like it's slander. You're obviously enjoying every little dig you can take at me even if it means making up ridiculous assumptions about what I said.

It's not the first time I get attacked for being "un-Christian" by a conservative on this board. What's next?? ::)


Oh, and I'm done with you for this time. A person who refers to us as the "HTGTH Gestapo" should use the word slander with caution.




/jarmo

What you said was very clear:

There's no need to play with your words to make it look like slander. Wanting to see a particular group of people dead is directly opposed to what Christianity stands for. There are no "Christian" people who want to see gay people dead.


I never attacked you for being "un-Christian" ::) I could care less if you're Christian or not. Just don't make false allegations against Christianity.


You sound like a broken record, but when I said that, I said it for a reason. I made that comment on day when you went on a rampage banning or threatening to ban right of center people. You implied things about me that weren't true, and then threatened to ban me for making a lighthearted joke about how extreme SLC and Cindy Sheehan were.

ok not like this is about me or anything but........... are you saying that his statement is untrue? what about abortion doctors..... were they not killed by christians? does that not poke a whole in your sinking ship? all you have accomplised in this diatribe is to further widen the gap between the right and the left on this board. considering walk and myself actualy had a nice conversation on the board today........ and you come off moronic when you make an statement that to kill is unchristian, when christians in modren times have killed for their beleifs..........wake up..... drink some coffee... and if your out of coffee ill even send ya some..... cause seriously you had to be sleeping on that one

There are no Christian teachings that condone the killing of abortion doctors. The people who do that are loonies, they are not "Chrisitan." Is Hitler's national socialist party socialist ??? It's unbelievable to what lengths you people will go to pigeonhole Christians? :no: Talk about looking "moronic"? ::)

BAH foolishness

If you choose that path, Al Quaida has nothing to do with islam either !
No christians teachings condone killing of abortion doctors or even the crusades .... but these acts are and were done by chritians and in the name of god ! Jihad is no different.

Not to say that Al Qaeda does not twist the meaning of the Muslim religion, but why don't you consider some of the revelations received by Muhammad:

"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:4)

?Jihad (holy fighting in Allah?s Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims), though you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and like a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not.? (Koran, 2:216)

?The Believers said: ?This is what Allah and his Messenger promised us.? It added to their faith, obedience, and submission. Among the Believers are men who have been true to their covenant with Allah and have gone out for Jihad (holy fighting). Some have completed their vow to extreme (and have been martyred) fighting and dying in His Cause, and some are waiting, prepared for death in battle.? (Koran, 33:22)

?Let those who fight in the Cause of Allah sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the Cause of Allah, whether he is slain or gets victory?soon shall We give him a great reward.? (Koran, 4:74)


Jesus never said His followers should kill people who preform abortions, or? anyone for that matter. In fact, in the Old Testament, there were laws like in the Koran about killing your enemies, and Jesus' new covenant to love your enemies overrode?them and changed all of that.

Nice try but FALSE ANALOGY.

Hey popmetal,

nice, but not correct. What you cited is one of about 800 versions of Qur'an interpretation. Two of them are approved in the whole musilm world, the rest only by small groups.

The problem is that in the arabian language (which I do study) there are sometimes over 20 different options how to vocalize a word. Have a look at a Arabian Dictionary (I suggest the one by Hans Wehr, published via Librairie Du Liban 1977) and you'll see. A completely original vocalized version of the Qur'an does not exist.

So everyone is free to read into it what he wants. And overall translations are worthless in most cases.

/lastroots

What I forgot:

"Jihad" basically means "struggle", in this special meaning "struggle for islam". In the Qur'an there are two versions of Jihad, the small one (struggle for personal freedom, freedom of mind & soul) and the big one (struggle in war), and in war means in war. It allows a muslim to kill some?ne who thrteatenbs him or his religion IN WAR. Not in peace. So it doesn't say anything that any other religion or even soldier's handbook doesn't say as well.

Al-Quaida is an ideology which as nearly nothing to do with the religion of Islam.


/lastroots

thank you. that was a great post. There's only one true translation of the qur'an. read it. its readily available and you yourselves will see half what Al-Qaeda do is bullshit. what pissed me off is the London bombings and the news reporters and in studio guys were saying they admitted it on their Islamic website. its anything but islamic. btw, why dont they tell us the link if they're telling the truth???

Lets talk pure understanding in the bible. From what you are saying, about the Qur'an then the world must have been made over night was it? and 6 days total all creatures that exist on earth was created..... or is this just a "twisted analogy"? Many times on this board it has been discussed about preceptional understanding of all things spiritual. All teachings are open to interpertation, if one group uses their beleifs to bomb and kill then it has to be wrong and it has to be Muslim correct? or at least someone coming for a muslim ideal who was caried into a false understanding by deception and trickery? im guessing you can agree to that


Well as it ahs been shown several times you dont have to be muslim to do bombings or killings, happens in the west and they are christian..... but they cant be christian because they are using unchristian Ideals...... so muslims cant be muslim becasue they are acting un muslim....... but no they are muslim according to you because of provisons of murder in the Qur'an....... your interpertation of it at least. well if that is only an interpertation, then based on your idea you have put forward any christian can still be christian and commit these crimes, because they feel that they are making the sacrafice to help cleanse mankind by offering their soul unto God so our sins will be forgotten. As they beleive to do this work for god is what is needed.

answer me this question

"What makes truth?"

At first, the comparison between the bible and the qur'an is very far stretched. Both religions are basically against crime and violence. But from my catholic theology studies I remenber that, yes, a christian who commits a crime can still be a christian since everyone has to make his own decisions in believing and in behaving.

According to that theory (if I remember right from the 2. Vatican Concile), hell is empty because everyone who did something wrong in his live has the chance to give his live to god after he died.

I personally don't believe things like that, but that's what's the "official" christian believe. So a muslim who commits crimes can still be a muslim, even though the proper belief in Islam is that you loose your connection to god if you play against the rules.

Explained good enough?
If there are any more questins, just ask.

/lastroots

What you're saying here, though, is that any way people can "vocalize" the words can be correct...

Who's to say one vocalization is right and the other isn't?

Noboday knows the complete right vocalisation for the reason I explained earlier. But out of the context there are a few versions which can make sense. As I said there are only two of trhem which are overly accepted and are the official interpretations for all muslims, put together by theologists who did a good job imo.

The unaccepted versions are often such which kinda force violent meanings out of the book. Not all of course, but those used by the extemists.

To make you better understand. The two versions I told you of are "accepted", and those who accept them (which is the greatest majority of all muslims) don't even think about vocalizing it different.


/lastroots

Thank you very much lastroots !  :yes: Someone like you was really needed in this thread !  : ok:

There are no vocalizations or versions in which Jesus said you should kill anyone, so what you did was still a false analogy:

http://onegoodmove.org/fallacy/falsean.htm

By the way "Kampf" also means "struggle." How ironic is that in light of Mr. Ahmadinejad's comments.

Ever thought of the fact that there are different words for "struggle" in Arab / Farsi? And that they mean different things when translated. For example, the struggle of war in Arab is "harb" or "harbun", if you take the qur'anic vocalization.

/lastroots

Blahblahbla I want to be right about something .... ?::)

False analogy ??? ... I never talked about Jesus, Did I ? I love jesus teachings alright ok ! I talked about Christians (they were the one in the crusades weren't they ?) - and if I remember right on sundays at the Church christians use to read something that was called ... The Bible ... an holy book for sure that includes if my memory serves me right - The old Testament.

No, it's not that I want to be right about something, it's just that I'm sick of you in particular using logical fallacies to attack me.

Please enlighten me ! Where are the fallacies you're talking about ? For example in this particular thread ?

You are the one saying there is no extremism when it comes down to christianity - many members don't agree - when given examples you say they're not christians - To that, I said so be it - but if that's so al quaida has nothing to do w/ islam either ! 

here, you just did it again ::) I never said there is no extremism when it comes to Christianity. That was a Straw Man Fallacy:

http://onegoodmove.org/fallacy/straw.htm

Here are some of your posts just in the last page :







I swear I did make up any of this !

So if you never said that these people you claim are not extremist christians (I got your point alright - for you they are not christian at all)... what is an extremist christian ?

And while reading your posts in the last pages what I get is that Christianity is goodness - no extremism and that islam is meaness ie no moderation.

I don't want to harass you ! If it's not what you wanted to say, well don't fall on me, I am not the only one that understood your posts that way.

How come you didn't bother to quote the part where I say:

before you wrote what you get out what I said is that "Islam is meanness" ::)


And "There are no 'Christian' people who want to see gay people dead." does not mean that there are no extremist Christians ::) You still haven't shown me where I said that ???

I guess you could say that the abortion doctor bombers who claim to be "Christian" are "Christian" extremists. Though there is certainly nothing Jesus said in any version or vocalization that condones their action, which is why this post http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=23317.msg410045#msg410045 was a False Analogy.

But since you people are so insistent on this. Can somebody show me evidence of the existence of this group of "Christians" who want to see gay people dead ...

Do a Google search like the rest of us.

But since you don't seem to know how to: http://www.godhatesfags.com/

That guy is a nutcase and claims to be Christian. I bet some people see him as a good Christian too.


You're hillarious. You take all kinds of meanings out of my posts so you can feel offended or whatever. Then when Rain points out the similar things you did, you start yelling "straw man, straw man!". That's comedy.

Rain, "popmetal" is never wrong. Haven't you noticed?  :hihi:



/jarmo

When I'm wrong, I'm wrong because I'm wrong, not because Rain attacks me with logical fallacies. Just because you don't understand why using a Straw Man is wrong is not my problem. And why don't you get bent out of shape whenever SLC or piferk yell Straw Man? They do it quite a lot.

At least you managed to write a post directed towards me without saying how I called you "HTGTH Gestapo." That's a first? : ok:

Instead of replying to the answer I gave you, you go on about the other thing.

Funny.



Do you know what's so funny to me about the whole "straw man" thing? The fact that I don't recall it being used in discussions before (I mean years ago). Now it seems like you have to use the phrase, preferably multiple times per day!

And since I disppointed you earlier, maybe you can add "HTGTH Gestapo" to the list of phrases that you have to use to get your "point" across?? : ok:



You used similar tactics to "prove" I "slandered" Christians. But I guess you're allowed to but Rain isn't. Oh well, nice "talking" to you again.?Your act is becoming a bit boring and maybe Rain will see that soon.....




/jarmo

Oh dear.. there is even a link to http://www.godhatessweden.com/  :o

The guy was on TV here.  :hihi:

Apparently, God punished Sweden by killing many Swedes with the Asian tsunami last December. I think it all had to do with some Swedish preacher being sent to jail.... I guess the guy also thinks New Orleans was punished by God....




/jarmo

It was late and I needed to get some sleep so I didn't get an opportunity to take a good look at the website.

Apparently it's not just Fags and Sweden, he also has sites for the US and Canada
http://www.godhatesamerica.com
http://www.godhatescanada.com/

The man behind this group, Fred Phelps, is a complete loony. Family members of his have said he suffers from a mental illness that leaves him unsatisfied with life unless he can be responsible for the suffering of other human beings.

And what Phelps says is that God thinks homosexuality is a sin worthy of death, but Phelps doesn't call on anyone to kill gays, neither does he say that he wants to see them dead. In fact in the site's FAQ he says this:

That's very different from wanting to see gay people dead.

Leave it to the baptists to pass judgement on people, its what they do best.

If I am not mistaken doesn't God say not to judge others?

Here is an idea for this goon: Show your devotion to God by living your life as an example to follow instead of pointing the finger at others & cramming religion down peoples throats.

I don't know what's more sad, the fact that you're defending this nutcase or the fact that I haven't banned you yet.

Everybody else knows what my point was but you have to "prove" I was wrong because the first link I found with a three second Google search didn't exactly prove what I said.

Well, you can be happy about the fact that you just shown exactly why I don't want people like you here. You'll defend somebody who spreads hate just because I pointed him out. I'm not gonna do a new Google search for you since I don't know who you might defend next.

I'm done with you for the last time and you're done on this board. It's time for me to do some cleaning to get this section back from the little group of people who are doing everything they can to ruin all the fun we might have by posting stupid shit like you just did.

Consider this "the straw that broke the straw man's back" (there's a phrase you know). Have a nice day!




/jarmo

are you banning Pop?  How was that last post offensive?  He was simply saying that you didn't prove your point by citing that site?

It's sad to see somebody defending that nutcase.

I've had it with "popmetal".

I should've banned him/her when the "HTGTH Gestapo" remark was made.





/jarmo

The Gestapo comment was wrong, but that is something that you moderators get all of the time.  I doubt that is what pushed you over the edge?

It's all part of the sum.

The way I see it is that the person in question is only here to argue for the sake of arguing.





/jarmo

Perhaps, but you need to do a lot of banning then.

Fortunately the Christian right wing group isn't that big on this board.




/jarmo

ahm .... ok. Good. And can we get back on topic then?


/lastroots

I think you are wrong on that point.
I never saw rain "attacking people with logical fallacies" as you said. She is a person with who you can discuss and debate. She is nice.

Anyway, I've nothing to add on that topic anymore. So this is my last post.

You people know how to say a lot...without saying much at all.   ::)

Read the scientific evidence in Qur'an and you will be suprised to see whats written. Some of what is written talks about detail which modern man only recently discovered such what the foetus looks like after 40 days, 42 days etc in huge detail.

beside point. anyways, If they're so religious, they wouldn't bomb for no reason. in fact, they wudn't bomb public locations. The fact that they've apparantely bombed public locations shows that they are un-Islamic and technically should be referred as non-Muslim.

Hahaha....."Get out of Sweden Now"

What a loser.