Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I say why not?

Barring him from visiting the site is beyond retarded. He is the elected head-of-state of a sovereign nation and had nothing to do with 911.

Fucking dumb.

I heard he was going to use a child as a sun visor.

The last time I checked, this is still a free country.  Of course he should be allowed to visit and speak.  If he makes a fool of himself, so be it.   
 :peace:

The man is directly responsible for the deaths of American Soldiers.  He is supplying weapons to Iraq and is a state sponsor of terrorism.  The man chants death to the US and calls the holocaust a myth.  He won't be paying tribute to the 3000 killed on 9/11, but the 19 terrorist.  God willing, someone kills this fuck, praise be to Allah : ok:

Absolutely not.  here is why:

Three new domestically manufactured warplanes streaked over the capital during the parade marking the 27th anniversary of the Iraqi invasion of Iran, which sparked a 1980-88 war that killed hundreds of thousands of people. The parade also featured the Ghadr missile, which has a range of 1,120 miles, capable of reaching Israel.

Some of the missile trucks were painted with the slogans "Down with the U.S." and "Down with Israel." The parade also featured unmanned aerial surveillance drones, torpedoes, and tanks.

Fuck this guy.

(in reference to Dim's comment above Butters) Thank you Walter.  Exactly my point.  See how easy it is for a person to make an ass of himself?

"The man chants death to the US and calls the holocaust a myth."

Our president invaded a nation that had nothing to do with 9/11.  Our president thinks evolution is a "myth."  Our president would be hard-pressed to spell evolution.  Our president believes you are going to hell if you don't accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. 

Hmmm, I wonder what would happen if say, for example, Iran was hit with a 9-11 style attack and thousands died.  Then a year or 2 later, despite the fact none of the bombers were from Mexico, Iran invades and occupies Mexico.  I could go on and on with this, but even you Walter must understand where I'm going with that.  Do you think Americans might be thinking, "Down with Iran?" 

I say fuck Ahmedinejad as well, but let him speak.  I'm not a "turn the other cheek" pansy-ass, but at least let the man speak.  Maybe people are afraid he'll say something nice...we couldn't have that now could we? 
 

Your argument is so weak, I expected better from you.  Ahmedinejad tortures his own people, he silences them.  The man has no concept of human rights.  His foreign policy is to bring chaos to the world.  He has said all of this.  You and other liberal morons want to believe Bush is a religious fanatic, but have no solid proof.  So what if Bush thinks those who fail to accept Christ will burn in hell?  That is a tenet of Christianity, every single Christian holds that belief.  Bush isn't calling for the annihilation of everyone who doesn't hold his beliefs, Ahmedinejad is.  Quit trying to be politically correct and look at the issue objectively.

Bush: God told me to invade Iraq

President 'revealed reasons for war in private meeting'
By Rupert Cornwell in Washington
Published: 07 October 2005

President George Bush has claimed he was told by God to invade Iraq and attack Osama bin Laden's stronghold of Afghanistan as part of a divine mission to bring peace to the Middle East, security for Israel, and a state for the Palestinians.

The President made the assertion during his first meeting with Palestinian leaders in June 2003, according to a BBC series which will be broadcast this month.

The revelation comes after Mr Bush launched an impassioned attack yesterday in Washington on Islamic militants, likening their ideology to that of Communism, and accusing them of seeking to "enslave whole nations" and set up a radical Islamic empire "that spans from Spain to Indonesia". In the programmeElusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs, which starts on Monday, the former Palestinian foreign minister Nabil Shaath says Mr Bush told him and Mahmoud Abbas, former prime minister and now Palestinian President: "I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."

And "now again", Mr Bush is quoted as telling the two, "I feel God's words coming to me: 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East.' And by God, I'm gonna do it."

Mr Abbas remembers how the US President told him he had a "moral and religious obligation" to act. The White House has refused to comment on what it terms a private conversation. But the BBC account is anything but implausible, given how throughout his presidency Mr Bush, a born-again Christian, has never hidden the importance of his faith.

From the outset he has couched the "global war on terror" in quasi-religious terms, as a struggle between good and evil. Al-Qa'ida terrorists are routinely described as evil-doers. For Mr Bush, the invasion of Iraq has always been part of the struggle against terrorism, and he appears to see himself as the executor of the divine will.

He told Bob Woodward - whose 2004 book, Plan of Attack, is the definitive account of the administration's road to war in Iraq - that after giving the order to invade in March 2003, he walked in the White House garden, praying "that our troops be safe, be protected by the Almighty". As he went into this critical period, he told Mr Woodward, "I was praying for strength to do the Lord's will.

"I'm surely not going to justify war based upon God. Understand that. Nevertheless, in my case, I pray that I will be as good a messenger of His will as possible. And then of course, I pray for forgiveness."

Another telling sign of Mr Bush's religion was his answer to Mr Woodward's question on whether he had asked his father - the former president who refused to launch a full-scale invasion of Iraq after driving Saddam Hussein from Kuwait in 1991 - for advice on what to do.

The current President replied that his earthly father was "the wrong father to appeal to for advice ... there is a higher father that I appeal to".

The same sense of mission permeated his speech at the National Endowment of Democracy yesterday. Its main news was Mr Bush's claim that Western security services had thwarted 10 planned attacks by al-Qa'ida since 11 September 2001, three of them against mainland US.

More striking though was his unrelenting portrayal of radical Islam as a global menace, which only the forces of freedom - led by the US - could repel. It was delivered at a moment when Mr Bush's domestic approval ratings are at their lowest ebb, in large part because of the war in Iraq, in which 1,950 US troops have died, with no end in sight.

It came amid continuing violence on the ground, nine days before the critical referendum on the new constitution that offers perhaps the last chance of securing a unitary and democratic Iraq. "The militants believe that controlling one country will rally the Muslim masses, enabling them to overthrow all moderate governments in the region" and set up a radical empire stretching from Spain to Indonesia, he said.

The insurgents' aim was to "enslave whole nations and intimidate the world". He portrayed Islamic radicals as a single global movement, from the Middle East to Chechnya and Bali and the jungles of the Philippines.

He rejected claims that the US military presence in Iraq was fuelling terrorism: 11 September 2001 occurred long before American troops set foot in Iraq - and Russia's opposition to the invasion did not stop terrorists carrying out the Beslan atrocity in which 300 children died.

Mr Bush also accused Syria and Iran of supporting radical groups. They "have a long history of collaboration with terrorists and they deserve no patience". The US, he warned, "makes no distinction between those who commit acts of terror and those who support and harbour them because they're equally as guilty of murder".

"Wars are not won without sacrifice and this war will require more sacrifice, more time and more resolve," Mr Bush declared. But progress was being made in Iraq, and, he proclaimed: "We will keep our nerve and we will win that victory."

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article317805.ece

  Walter O' Dim, I agree with you.  Ahmedhinejad is a jerk.  He is wrong on the holocaust.  He is wrong on his desire for the destruction of Israel.  He is not what I consider a good man.  That said, show this man what's so great about our nation.  Let him speak.  What on earth could he say at ground zero that could cause us any harm?  Please, give me an example of what he would probably say that would be disastrous for the United States.

  You don't think there is proof our "born again" president is a religious fanatic?  Did you read the post above this one?

  ...and no, every "Christian" does not believe non-believers are going to hell.  The fanatics do, but the sane and rational ones do not.  The same goes for Muslims. 

  Also, you told me to stop trying to be politically correct.  Is that something I do regularly around here?  I've put forth my opinions on things like automatic sterilization for violent sex criminals, automatic life sentences in real prisons with no parole, no tv, no visitation, no letters, no books, etc.  for violent criminals, I could go on but I won't. 

Okay, actually I will.  I was watching a 20/20 program last night when a story on a chick who was raped came on the tv. 
She found out a couple months later she had been impregnated by this monster.  She decided to keep the baby.  Good for her, it's not what I would do, but that's her choice.  The thing that pisses me off is that everybody's so happy about her "doing the right thing."  Bullshit.  This chick should be arrested.  She knew of a violent sex criminal on the loose and did nothing to stop him.  I'll bet ya this fucker raped some more women after this dumb chick who "did the right thing."  Yeah, right.  ::)

Back on topic.  I repeat the question.  What could he say that would make your life or my life any worse?   ???

Heard it all before, it was hearsay that was debunked.  It was proven it was bullshit.

Him being allowed to speak at groudn zero will impower our enemies.  This man is viewed as a hero to radical muslims worldwide.  For him to pay homage to terrorist at ground zero is wrong.  While I believe he should be allowed to speak at the UN, he has no business roaming around America.  I'm sorry, Revelations teaches that those who don't accept Chirst go to hell.  To be a Christian you have to accept that Christ was born through immaculate conception, crucified and ressurected.  You have to believe the only way to salvation is through him.  That is what is taught.  I personally don't believe that, but I don't call myself a Christian either.  You can argue every other aspect of morality, but you have to accept Christ to go to heaven.

That bullshit article Richard posted has been debunked many times, it's not valid.  This is the kind of shit that really gets under my skin, some 3rd person bullshit is put in a foreign paper and you people salivate over it because it fits your preconceived notion.  The article was debunked, end of story, quit using it because you look like an idiot - ecspecially someone supposedly in a graduate program using it. 

Bush isn't chanting death to the middle east or advocating the genocide of people.  This man is and if he could would be no different than Hitler.  If it were discovered that Hitler really has been hiding in Brazil (ignore the impossibility of age) and wanted to goto the Holocaust museum, would you be okay with that?  We will be at war with Ahmedinejad, everybody knows that.  I don't want the bastard using ground zero as a photo op.

lmao :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

brilliant, just brilliant, totally.

No it's really insulting and shows what a loser he is.  Anyone who can make a joke out of the current situation really is fucking out there.  Didn't SLC post some video in outrage when Bush made a joke about not finding WMDs in Iraq.  Once again, a fuckin hypocrite and total loser.

  Walter, seriously man, there are millions of "Christians" who interpret the words in different ways.  We could argue about that for hours, but I just wanted to let you know that not all Christians fall into the "radical" "Bush-like" "you're either with us or against us," Tommy Stinson-like "Get on board or fuck off"  category.  Many Catholics believe in good works getting you closer to heaven where as the fundamentalists could care less if a person rapes a bus-load of nuns as long as he accepts j.c. as his lord and savior.

  Damn, let Ahmedhinejad try talking smack at Ground Zero.  What better excuse to get the American people to rally behind you in another war?

  Next point, Walter, wasn't it 1972 when Nixon visited China?  Hmm, if my memory is correct, wasn't the Chinese military aiding our enemy, the North Vietnamese?  Using your logic, weren't the Chinese our enemies at the time?  Wasn't Mr. Nixon emboldening our enemies?  Come off this shit.  We are not at war with Iran. 

  My last point.  You haven't answered my question in regards to what you think Ahmedinejad would say at ground zero.  I think you've got some brains, so I know you don't think he'd start praising the 9/11 hijackers at ground zero...so what do you think he'd really say?  And again, I ask you, how could it hurt you, me, or anybody else in the world? 

There's nothing he's going to say that would change anyone's mind.  It's the principle behind it all.  This man supports the same people the made the attack happen.  Allowing him to go there is a symbolic victory.  There will be pictures of him at ground zero all over Islamic TV and news.  I'd be willing to bet Bin Laden even will address it in his next speech.  I don't want to give these bastards the time of day.  Ground zero is sacred to most people and to allow someone who approves of the act to be present does a dishonor to those who died that day and all those who have died after it.  I've stood at ground zero several times, and to think this piece of shit will be granted permission to do the same is outrageous to me.

The people who brought the towers down were Sunni, Persians(Ahmadinejad) are Shi'a. Those two groups have been at war for the better part of 1300 years. People from all different nationalities died there. I say let him show his condolences. Propaganda can be played two ways.

Whaaaaaat???  There are different kinds of Muslims?  Don't sweat it Walter, Bush just a week or 2 ahead of the invasion of Iraq didn't know it either.

"There's nothing he's going to say that would change anyone's mind."  Whose minds are you afraid he'll change?  He'll probably thank the US government for opening the door to Iranian influence in a nation whose majority is Shi'a. 

There is more than two kinds of Muslims.  That has nothing to do with this issue.  Radical Islam preaches the annihiliation of all infidels, specifically the west and Israel.  Ahmadinejad is preaching those values.  They have common ground.  Baptist don't agree with Presbyterians, Catholic and Protestants don't agree - look at Ireland and England.  What is your point?  But they both have common ground and if there was a religious war in the name of Christianity being led (which there is not) people of all denominations of Christianity would join. 

Here is what you fail to grasp.  A nation led on true Christian principle would be a peaceful nation.  Christianity is the true religion of peace.  We are seeing nations led on true Islam and they are anything but peaceful.  Hitler said that Islam was the religion most suited for his imperialistic desires.  He also said one is either German or Christian, you can not be both. 

So let's quit with the bullshit comparisons.

I get it now.  Christianity is better than Islam.  It's finally sunk in. 

"Christianity is the true religion of peace.... " and if you don't believe it, you will burn in eternal hellfire.  :rofl:

On what legal grounds could he be stopped?

The only reason I could see Ahmadinejad wanting to visit ground zero is for publicity, the guy doesn't really care if 3000 US lives were lost by terrorists. This guy  funds Hamas and Hezbollah.

I say let him visit ground zero, but NYC should supply NO security for him. Watch what happens...... :hihi:

I call bullshit. Some of Hitlers thoughts on religion are well known; they were published:

The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfil God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. [original italics]

For God's will gave men their form, their essence, and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will. Therefore, let every man be active, each in his own denomination if you please, and let every man take it as his first and most sacred duty to oppose anyone who in his activity by word or deed steps outside the confines of his religious community and tries to butt into the other.

[...]

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord. [original italics]

[Adolf Hitler, from "Mein Kampf", translation by Ralph Mannheim.]

and from other sources:

The F?hrer made it known to those entrusted with the Final Solution that the killings should be done as humanely as possible. This was in line with his conviction that he was observing God's injunction to cleanse the world of vermin. Still a member in good standing of the Church of Rome despite detestation of its hierarchy ("I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so" [quoting Hitler]), he carried within him its teaching that the Jew was the killer of God. The extermination, therefore, could be done without a twinge of conscience since he was merely acting as the avenging hand of God -- so long as it was done impersonally, without cruelty.






[John Toland (Pulitzer Prize winner),
from "Adolf Hitler", pp 507, talking about the Autumn of 1941.]

He's not a US Citizen and considered a sponsor of terror by the state department.

Not what I said at all, but you've proven you're incapable of intelligent discussion.  There's another poster who uses to post smiley faces in all his post because he lacked the ability to articulate the ideals he randomly shouted.

Hitler was also known as a great orator capable of moving millions.  It's no secret Hitler was in bed with the Catholic Church, it was beneficial for his control.  However, your own quote states how he detested the church.  Point being, Hitler saw Islam as a warrior's religion - down with the infidels.  Christians are certainly not free from atrocities, but it's obvious that such acts were in violations of the teachings of Christ.  Show me the quotes where Christ advocates killing your enemies and all non-believers?  I can show you the versus where Mohammed says those things.  Interestingly enough, although Christ is the epitome of peace, Islam distorts him to be the leader of Jihad as he will lead the forces against all infidels in the end of days.

 :rofl:read the fat middle part...angry fingers is the problem....jumping in the middle of a quote and typing like mad....here is another smiley for you Dim because I am probably unable to express myself articulately at the moment..those same fingers want to poke you in the eyes :hihi:

ya dim that remonds me of a poster too.... LOL... but didnt he make others run and hide after he was done?

Should the Japanese be allowed to visit to visit Pearl Harbour?

Well I think so, because Michael Bay bombed Pearl Harbor wayyyyyy more harder than they ever could and he visited there.

"Michael Bay" is.......

(the director of the movie???)  :hihi:

Pearl Harbor was a military target.  It has also been 66 years and Japan is one of our strongest allies.  Maybe when we are an ally of Iran and they have apologized for their behavior (as Japan did) then they can pay respect.

Is it Axlvenrose? oh fuck!!!!  :)  ;)  :D  >:(  :love: :rofl: :love:  :rofl:  :hihi: :peace:  :love:  :rofl: :hihi:  :yes:

Walter, I've been here a while and I don't plan on leaving. 

I posted this:  "Next point, Walter, wasn't it 1972 when Nixon visited China?  Hmm, if my memory is correct, wasn't the Chinese military aiding our enemy, the North Vietnamese?  Using your logic, weren't the Chinese our enemies at the time?  Wasn't Mr. Nixon emboldening our enemies?  Come off this shit.  We are not at war with Iran.

  My last point.  You haven't answered my question in regards to what you think Ahmedinejad would say at ground zero.  I think you've got some brains, so I know you don't think he'd start praising the 9/11 hijackers at ground zero...so what do you think he'd really say?  And again, I ask you, how could it hurt you, me, or anybody else in the world?"

  Pennington mentioned it would be for publicity.  Well yeah, that's usually why people speak in public.  Before we allow blind anger to make up our minds, let's think about what the ramifications would be.  He speaks.  Then what?  Dim, are you afraid of this man?  Maybe they could work out a deal where Condy goes over to Tehran and addresses the masses first.  Perhaps a dialog being established instead of petty "Great Satan" or "Axis of Evil" labels being thrown around, would be a start.

  btw, Tits Mcgee, nice post...but then again, I'm incapapapable of conducing an intellijent dishcushion so I must not know a damn thing.      :drool:

  " Posted by: Walter O'Dim

Quote from: Booker Floyd on Today at 08:52:01 PM
On what legal grounds could he be stopped?

He's not a US Citizen and considered a sponsor of terror by the state department."

^Didn't we have one of those win the Nobel Peace Prize? 

Hey Dim, I'm really confused.  What happens when the Saudis come over to visit Ground Zero?  I mean, what was it, 19 out of 21 of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia....but they are our allies!?!?  What do we do then?  I'm glad you are here to sort this out for us.   :yes:

 

What do you want me to say?? I don't think we should be allies with the Saudis (how many of you have spent weeks training with the Saudi National Guard and really gotten to? know them, I know I have).? But those were citizens who did that, not the government.? That is the distinction.? I answered your question on what he would say, nothing he says will matter.? The point is that he shouldn't be granted permission to be there.? What next, are we going to allow Bin Laden to come as a diplomat too?

And to my minor typo, come on now.? I expect those attacks from Lisa because she probably couldn't read James and the Giant Peach, but I give Axl4Prez and Prometheus more credit than that.? I think you mis-read Promethus' post.? He wasn't saying that I'll make you run away, he's saying SLC made people run away.?

Might as well......it's not like Bush is going to put any pressure on him being arrested any time soon. 

OK, that is it, I?ve been here for a few years, but this is really the last straw The lies, half truths, accusations, veiled threats, and chronic badgering by Randall Flagg/Walter Dim/Guns n Rock Music has been relentless. How far are you going to take it man? Your incessant onslaught on my private life, your slurs towards my patriotism, your never-ending, around the clock, smear  crusade against me has been ongoing for well over two years now. It is obvious that you are not leaving, so I will look elsewhere for something more healthy. 

To put it simply you win. I will bow out gracefully rather than continue defending myself from the daily bombardment of personal attacks, and physical threats on this message board-which has become a personal amphitheatre for one particularly angry fascist who drones out the carbon-copy-drivel-du-jour on yours truly. Were the circumstances different, no doubt I'd stay. And win.
 
Remember to keep a keen eye on Walter Dim. Since its inception, this site has seen no worse.

As for the man himself, I have a few words.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberstalking

So good luck everybody, I?ll see see y'all on the published side.

OK, I'm back.

Good.

The Resistance are keeping an eye on Walter now as well.? : ok:

Leave him be I say.

Every board needs a chicken hawk, wouldn't you say?

Hey, I'll provide him the spade.

Well...it's a construction zone, so I'm sure that lots of people are told "No, sorry...we're doing work here."  Now, if he wanted to walk on the sidewalks NEXT to the site, and lay a wreath, I'm not sure he could be stopped from doing so, as he would be here legally, with a visa. 

I'm not a fan of the guy, but I really couldn't care less if he lays a wreath.  He's also speaking at Columbia University.  I have no problem with that.  Let him speak.  If his ideas have merit, then so be it.  If he spouts off his "there was no Holocaust" nonsense, then I'm sure he'll get to know how "friendly" New Yorkers can be.

Isn't that the link MCT used to link to use after your tactics against Sterling?  I thought you hated Wiki and denounce the use of it.  Hypocrite.

LOL

The post was a two-for-one satire.

Did you hear anything whiz over your head by chance?

i hope he comes to NYC.  There are probably more jews here than there are in Israel!  They definitely know how to rally the troops as well.  they were all over the place when Mel Gibsons passion movie was debuting, i can only imagine the protest if this guy comes to town.

Sounds like Bush to me...

 ^ and so shall the history books say in due time...

Are you out of your fucking mind?? Name one American citizen Bush has tortured.? Tell me how your views have been silenced.? You being alive and able to spread your hate mongering is proof America isn't a fascist state.? You truly are a dispicable human being.? You are low class, ignorant and cruel.? I wish nothing but bad things on you.? If I ever meet you in person, I'll put you in your place.?

Bush's "laws" have resulted in the kidnapping of innocent people, their imprisonment, months of torture, and eventual release (after finding out they tortured the wrong person for half a year.)

Opposing views, especially early on, were attacked at every chance possible, by many different outlets. Valerie Plame comes to mind (and all those that worked along side of her, also endangered.)

Bush has no concept of human rights, on the contrary he has done everything he can to avoid adhering to them.

His policies have made us less safe, created a terror state, a recruiting ground for jihadist loonies, and placed our soldiers in the middle of a civil war. He has brought Chaos to the middle east, using you guys likes toilets, while rewarding his corporate pals with billion dollar pay days. These are not my words (with the exception corporate profiteering), these are the words of the National Intelligence Estimate.

I've got to hand it to you Dim, you sure don't act like an officer in the military. One who comes online and spouts abuse,and makes veiled physical threats every time he reads something he does not like. It sure would be funny, if somebody printed up all the horrible shit you wrote here (including the debasing of your fellow soldiers) and mailed it to your superiors.



Get the egg of your face yet?

It's me that hates Wiki and denounces the use of it (from an academic point of view).

"I say to you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.? As for my enemies who do not want me to reign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence" (Luke 19:26-27).

"Do not think that I have come to send peace on Earth.? I did not come to send peace, but a sword.? I am sent to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" (Matthew 10:34-35).

There are many others where "he" advocated the gouging of eyes, stoning, and the silencing of critics and non-believers.

well, theres far less white people, who are christians that find the need to go kill these days, unlike another, currently highly popular religion at the moment...

I was mearly responding to a challenge. Though, I think all religions are "fucked". None are no better than the others.

So you're saying it's The Crusades.......but in reverse.

Any shot in hell that we can talk about the topic or is this turning into the 99th thread we have on why people hate Bush...

...also, personal attacks are not a good way to get your point across.

basically i think the islamic extremists are having the equivilent of the crusades we had centuries ago.

Trying to export your religion on others in a forceful way....yeah, I see the similarities.  Agreed.

SLC,

Go ahead and mail my superiors.  Do you think for a second they would care what you say after reading your hate?  You believe 9/11 was an inside job and Bush is a terrorist, we'd have a huge laugh and a beer over it.  You really are a loser.

... and the collective grows....

Yawn......

See you next time you register.

Could also be because 5-7 % of the planet's population is white, go figure.

Hold on a sec...

Is DevilHatesaLoser Walter?

And he's gone?

This place is gonna be boring!

Speaking of that, I don't even know who you are.

I'm #44.

Sure you do, he's Hillary Clinton.

gearldford :)

just check the profile :P

I knew it! Hillary is a man!  :hihi:

bush said Mandela was killed by sadam husein...

talk about people making fools out of them selves.

Hello folks.  On topic, did anybody see 60 Minutes tonight with the interview with Ahmedinejad?  It had to be new because they were talking about his desire to visit Ground Zero.  He's a very interesting personality.  Do I agree with him on many things?  Of course not.  However, sometimes letting people shoot themselves in their own foot is more effective than shooting them yourself.

Now, just to mention the whole Dim controversy.  He really went overboard when he said what he'd do to SLC "in person."
 :peace:

One more point, on the Mandela thing...I hate to defend Bush, but what I think he was referring to were those like Mandela.  Kind of like saying the Lincolns are dead, etc.  Just a thought.

 

I saw it Axl4Prez.

I agree that he's an interesting personality, but must confess that the dude totally gives me the creeps :hihi:

(http://www.snappedshot.com/uploads/Dictatorship/2007_04_16t074341_450x300_us_iran_nuclear_ahmadinejad.jpg)
(http://www.worth1000.com/entries/137000/137146OtWS_w.jpg)

I'll be there at the the rally tommoro

Well,' Hillary Clinton'.....as your personal political strategist, I recommend that we hold off any comment, or deny any knowledge of said person(you know, that old chestnut), until we can figure out how much said person is willing to donate to 'The Campaign'.

^ omg!  Ringo, you bastard! 

In that interview, I think I'd have trouble as well finding something nice to say about "W."  :hihi:

Did you catch the part where Kroft mentions Ahmedinejad's election was won mostly by support from the poor, rural voters?  All I could think of was the red state support for "W."  ;D

He sure does like to dance around questions...but what politician doesn't. 

From what I understand, his support right now in Iran is not that strong.  I'm really not worried about Iran.  Israel will destroy any nuclear capability well before Iran can do something stupid (building a bomb).   

He was speaking figuratively.

It should be pointed out that Ayatollah Ali Khamenei holds the real power in Iran.



Maybe he was, but it just came out awkward. If he isn't reading a carefully scripted speech, he's in trouble.

i believe that is correct.  I recall hearing the majority of people there like America.  Agree about Israel taking care of any major threats in the region as well (with US funding no doubt).

what happened to Dim this time?  he boot himself or did he get banned again?

She's hung like a bear.

well he was practily cyber stalking da punk.... so maybe he got a rub and didnt like what he found?  :rofl:

Yes that one, behead that one.

Why won't anybody tell Ahmadinejad that Member Only jackets are not kewl anymore?

One of his main reasons for visiting America is to ease strained relations between the two nations.

I don't think he cares very much about US -Iranian relations. He's more into raising the stature of Iran.

Well, that's how the news in Australia reported it this evening.

That's why he's coming to America man.  He's like "I would like to visit this great capitalist machine known as a 'K-Mart.'  The deals there are harder to believe than the Holocaust."

That way he's ready for his big speech in the hopes that someone will ask him, "Sir, are those Bugle Boy jeans you're wearing?"...."Shiite, yeah mofo...I love US and A."

? ? If he would like to visit the site area w/o entering and do so w/o our Sec Service for security and has a proper visa to leave the protection zone of the UN, then give it a go.? Maybe as a civil engineer he wants to take a look maybe give a suggestion, maybe he really cares about the 9/11 victims or He wants to go home to say he was there to honor the martyrs.? He may do so or become a victim of a random act of violence in a big city.
? ? I personally would rather he didn't go to NYC at all but I'm just a working stiff whose opinion doesn't matter and is posting on a GnR fansite :-*
? ? Maybe ahmadinejad is a HTGTH member and will take into consideration all of the opinons of this thread and make up his mind and then just wait patiently for a the new C.D. with a new centrifuge bonus pack.

We need to relax.? Some post were amusing and some disturbing.? Whatever.

He's not "visiting America."  He's using his right as a state's leader to speak at the UN, which happens to BE in America.  If the UN weren't here, he wouldn't be coming or, in all likelihood, he wouldn't be granted a visa.


The Blue Light Special is a myth.

Damn you! Ok Ok I'll be Alright.? It's all coming together now..The Martha Stewart Line is now at Macy's! so that's where the blue light is. Thanks.

I think it is about time we learn to create a dialog between the two countries. Bush's "I don't talk to these guys" has proven to be disastrous.

Did anyone watch Ahmadinejad's speach? The President of Columbia tore into him like a hyena; at one point saying he exhibited "all the signs of a petty and cruel dictator". In the question and answer part, Ahmadinejad dodged every question put to him, and instead, relied on straw man arguments in a vain attemp at making his point. When ask about the execution of homosexuals, his response was that Iran has no homosexuals. This guy is a real piece of shit. Without the restrictions placed on Iran's elections by the Clerics, this asshole would have never been elected. The Iranian people deserve so much better.

This policy has been in effect since 79 with Iran. ?1961 with Cuba ect.. ?Sometimes there's is no talking to some leaders until the people finally reject that leader. ?Does ahmadinejad run Iran or does the Clerics and Fundamentalists run it with him as a mouth piece. ?The people of Iran do want to be a real democracy or at least open change and I really don't know if ahmadinejad is trying to change or playing the role of a double agent. ?Besides down with the US and Isreal rantings, He wants to work with Russia yet supports Chechnyan Rebels and verbally jabs Russia at the same time? ?The world has the same view of this guy and they just doesn't trust him. ?Why should they, he inflames issues historical and current and then claims that he's misunderstood that he says these things to create dialog. ?All politicians speak in riddles but do not fund or promote terror to create dialog?
 ? ? We'll see what his speeches bring and if Iran's people and Cleric's call him out for inflammatory comments, like they have before. ?Even their unsure of him publicly at least. ?So far his Columbia University opening wasn't too pleasant for him. ?Will answer a direct question? ?We'll see.

? ?And while I was typing FC ^ sums it up pretty well.?

do not put your trust on these translation, the 60 minutes interview was VERY badly translated ...
then again, if watching Ahmadinejad makes you feel better about your own president, good for you.

Ahmadinejad interviews shows only one thing, the people that your media picture as evil and insane are actually very much like you and i.
And Ahmadinejad wishing for Israel regime to collapse (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/weekinreview/11bronner.html?ex=1307678400&en=efa2bd266224e880&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss read how he didnt not really ask for israel to be wiped out ...) is pretty much the same thing as GW Bush calling for a worldwide war, putting Hamas and Hezbollah, Farc and ETA at the same level of Al-quaeda.

taking all the "freedom fighters" - who might be terrorist at the same time, i know it - and putting 'em in the same bag as Al-quaeda, giving to the various regime (spain, columbia, palestine) the right to crush any voice asking for a change or freedom.

Ahmadinejad questions 9/11, Holocaust




By NAHAL TOOSI, Associated Press Writer 23 minutes ago

NEW YORK - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad questioned the official version of the Sept. 11 attacks and defended the right to cast doubt on the Holocaust in a tense appearance at Columbia University, whose president accused the hard-line leader of behaving like "a petty and cruel dictator."

Ahmadinejad smiled at first but appeared increasingly agitated, decrying the "insults" and "unfriendly treatment." Columbia President Lee Bollinger and audience members took him to task over Iran's human-rights record and foreign policy, as well as Ahmadinejad's statements denying the Holocaust and calling for the disappearance of Israel.

"Mr. President, you exhibit all the signs of a petty and cruel dictator," Bollinger said, to loud applause.

He said Ahmadinejad's denial of the Holocaust might fool the illiterate and ignorant.

"When you come to a place like this it makes you simply ridiculous," Bollinger said. "The truth is that the Holocaust is the most documented event in human history."

Ahmadinejad rose, also to applause, and after a religious invocation, said Bollinger's opening was "an insult to information and the knowledge of the audience here."

"There were insults and claims that were incorrect, regretfully," Ahmadinejad said, accusing Bollinger of falling under the influence of the hostile U.S. press and politicians. "I should not begin by being affected by this unfriendly treatment."

During a question and answer session, Ahmadinejad appeared tense and unsmiling, in contrast to more relaxed interviews and appearances earlier in the day.

In response to one audience, Ahmadinejad denied he was questioning the existence of the Holocaust: "Granted this happened, what does it have to do with the Palestinian people?"

But then he said he was defending the rights of European scholars, an apparent reference to a small number who have been prosecuted under national laws for denying or minimizing the Holocaust.

"There's nothing known as absolute," he said.

He reiterated his desire to visit ground zero to express sympathy with the victims of the Sept. 11 attacks, but then appeared to question whether al-Qaida was responsible.

"Why did this happen? What caused it? What conditions led to it?" he said. "Who truly was involved? Who was really involved and put it all together?"

Asked about executions of homosexuals in Iran, Ahmadinejad said the judiciary system executed violent criminals and high-level drug dealers, comparing them to microbes eliminated through medical treatment. Pressed specifically about punishment of homosexuals, he said: "In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country."

With the audience laughing derisively, he continued: "In Iran we do not have this phenomenon. I don't know who's told you that we have this."

Bollinger was strongly criticized for inviting Ahmadinejad to Columbia, and had promised tough questions in his introduction to Ahmadinejad's talk. But the strident and personal nature of his attack on the president of Iran was startling.

"You are either brazenly provocative or astonishingly uneducated," Bollinger told Ahmadinejad about the leader's Holocaust denial.

During his prepared remarks, the Iranian president did not address Bollinger's accusations directly.

Suzanne Maloney, a foreign policy fellow at the Brookings Institution, said Ahmadinejad's softer tone on Israel in this speech may reflect backlash in his own country.

"There's been widespread commentary in Iran, even on the far-right, that Ahmadinejad's position on Israel has hurt the country's diplomatic relations," said Maloney. "The fact that he was frankly unwilling to go as far as he has in the past suggests there may have been some consequences for him at home."

President Bush said Ahmadinejad's appearance at Columbia "speaks volumes about really the greatness of America."

He told Fox News Channel that if Bollinger considers Ahmadinejad's visit an educational experience for Columbia students, "I guess it's OK with me."

Other American officials were less sympathetic.

On Capitol Hill, conservatives said Columbia should not have invited Ahmadinejad to speak. Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said "there is a world of difference between not preventing Ahmadinejad from speaking and handing a megalomaniac a megaphone and a stage to use it."

Sen. Joseph Lieberman, I-Conn., said he thought Columbia's invitation to Ahmadinejad was a mistake "because he comes literally with blood on his hands."

Thousands of people jammed two blocks of 47th Street across from the United Nations to protest Ahmadinejad's visit to New York. Organizers claimed a turnout of tens of thousands. Police did not immediately have a crowd estimate.

The speakers, most of them politicians and officials from Jewish organizations, proclaimed their support for Israel and criticized the Iranian leader for his remarks questioning the Holocaust.

"We're here today to send a message that there is never a reason to give a hatemonger an open stage," New York City Council Speaker Christine Quinn said.

Protesters also assembled at Columbia. Dozens stood near the lecture hall where Ahmadinejad was scheduled to speak, linking arms and singing traditional Jewish folk songs about peace and brotherhood, while nearby a two-person band played "You Are My Sunshine."

Signs in the crowd displayed a range of messages, including one that read "We refuse to choose between Islamic fundamentalism and American imperialism."

THIS is the biggest bullshit i've read.

Oh my god ...  America and Europe are sucking Russia's dick and welcoming Putin in roses. Praising the Saudis as friends. This makes me so mad.
And here you recieve a FUCKIN PRESIDENT and call him "petty and cruel" .... i mean ....  come on !

i can't even start ranting about double standards, cause its been going on for decades, we fuckin SET UP dictators all over the world. we respect diplomatic rules and respect even when recieving "enemies" and here the fuckin douche from columbia insults the man (even if he is wrong on many subject ... the guy dont even run the country) Columbia president should read hsi lectures and learn about the political system in iran ....


fuckin' a. we suck. here we are trying to make the world a better a place, the guy comes and wants to discuss and we insult him .... then we want to pretend we're the civilized ones ?


homosexuals  in iran ? FOR CHRIST SAKE !!!!!!!!!!!  what the fuck is this question ????

do papoos come and ask why the fuck we cover our penis in public ???

fuck.

I believe the question was one of the level of intolerance.  to say there are no homosexuals in Iran is just naive. its an important issue here, and he was coming here so of course people are going to ask him questions like taht.

Dude, Ahmadinejad had his own tranlator. That is a common practise of Heads of State ... think about it for a moment, and it will make sense.

Actually, the question was about the execution of homosexuals in Iran due to their sexual preference. To which the asshole denied the exsistence of homosexuality in Iran.

Regarding "calling him petty and cruel", This was not a State visit. He(the asshole) was visiting a University to give a speach, and then take questions, and we tend to ask hard questions ... especially students ... especially when confronting a tyrant. You think his(the asshole) is not a tyrannical regime? Go to Iran and criticise Islam or the Ayatollas; blaspheme one of those sanctimonious fuckers ... it will probably cost you your life.

It doesn't, but I fail to understand why, for you, nothing can be viewed singularly.  Can't I dislike Ahmadinejad, without it having anything to do with my preference for Bush (or someone else's for Brown, or your's for Sarkozy)? 


Sadly, you're right (not sad that YOU'RE right, but sad that it's true  :peace:).  Ahmadinejad is really not all that different than the Saudi regime, except that he's not on "our side."  The Cold War policy of propping up "friendly" dictators has been and will continue to be a very costly one.


 ???

Ahmadinejad is a manipulative head of state who does not give 2 shits about America or the west. The guy wants to grow Iran's influence in the middle east and the world, that is his primary goal. He gave like an hour of religious rhetoric  and after that I don't think he directly answered one question.

And you know this because?

Simply put, the president of Columbia University should have been tasered.

Because I watched his speech today.

Interesting your take on it all.

Did you know that there are no gays in Iran and women there are the most free in the world? Also, we should do more research on the Holocaust because we really need to figure out what actually happened.

Joseph Liebeman isnt very bright.

ahah, that was a good one.
anyway. we can discuss content and i would agree on some things with you all, but i still think insulting a official person like that was out of line .. waaaaayyy outta line. and the President of Columbia made a fool of himself. I dare hime call Putin a dictator to his face ....

I agree with nothing Ahmadinejad said. But, it is in very poor taste when you invite someone to speak, even as controversial  as Ahmadinejad is, and berate him in the introduction as Bollinger did. It is a free country and people have the right to speak, even the President of Iran.

I believe Sen. Lieberman was referring to the fact that the weaponry (Missles and Mortars) that were fired into Israel last year were produced by Iran. ?It is also when ahmadinejad said that Isreal should be destroyed. ?Israel went on to pound Lebanon and keep control in Palestine at the same time while threatening Syria and letting Iran know that they were on notice. ?It was real ugly but what Israel wanted was the Lebanese Army to gaurd their border and stop rogue syrian and iranian backed insurgents from arming Palestinian rogue groups and to stop the same group from plotting and firing rockets into Israel. ?That's where the blood on his hand comment came from, not that ahmadinejad had anything to do with the Holocaust.

We're discussing the origins of mortars fired into Israel?
Do we discuss the origin of missiles fired BY israel ? Or the origin of the israeli planes that fly over Syrian airspace?
Oh wait, israeli boast about it ....

So we are labeling as evil the entity (iran?) which back palestinian insurgents ....
Now we have an entity that occupy soil illegaly and kill civilian officialy ... do we label them as evil?

That's called "war".

It has set of "rules" all of it own.........well, at least it used to, until the nazis decided to break some of the rules, and turned it into a whole different ball game.

I was referring to his use of "literally." 

Who stopped him? 

New question:

Who has more blood on his hand's, this guy, or Bush?

That is a red herring.

Maybe the President of Columbia (Bollinger)was trying to get ahmadinejad to show his true colors by challenging his past statements and the fact that the Iranian people are still being treated cruel by their government and have to enjoy "western" music and other things underground. ?Maybe Bollinger was trying to cast aside the goodwill propaganda tour of ahmadinejad? ?Or maybe He was just questioning hard instead of the swarmy like "western" media? ?Either way the students can make a judgement either for or against what ahmadinejad stands for and be educated at what goes on somewhere else. ?Maybe it will enlighten some to investigate other world leaders more. ?The Iranian President isn't a light weight he should be able to handle questions that are justified when an acceptance to an invitation is made.

 ? ?In my view, Ahmadinejad's reason for going to Columbia was to show up and expect to be treated like a rockstar and that everyone would be happy to see him because in his view everyone hates President Bush. ?No worries about Iran everything is great but all the worlds problems are because of President Bush.
 ? For Americans:Nothing for Nothing If you like Pres. Bush or not, liberal or conservative, we all live under one flag and we're united as citizens and live pretty well as we sit behind our PC screens. ?Some live better than other yet are the biggest complainers. ?I'm not of the belief that one party isn't patriotic more than the other, but that of different ideologies. ?Our armed forces are not all conservative republican but a mix of all including races and religions as I know this first hand. ?The Iranian President is an arrogant ass that is really taunting when pretending to extend an olive branch under the guise of being curious and itellectually wanting. ?That's his answer to questioning? ?He does it to all nations that aren't of his thought. ?If he wants to express his thoughts on our soil, then he should expect a reaction accordingly. ?For those who say he should have been treated like the Pope sorry. ?Where was the outrage when President Bush is insulted, protetested and threatened when invited to another nation? ?There is none. ?When there is a group of President's and P.M.'s ?in one location, the American one is protested. ?I take it as anti-American more than anti-Bush in alot of those cases.
 ? ?The pictures taken of ahmadinejad showed the anti-western views. ?He scowled and didn't smile and wave like in so many previous media interviews or public outings. ?He didn't like being questioned period. ?How dare an infidel question me. ?He expected a Bush bashing and anti western atmosphere and wasn't happy when it didn't go his way. ?We'll have to wait and see how his speech and rhetoric sounds after the visit to Columbia Univ.
 ? Maybe he should have visited another American University that has a bigger non-American student population that sympathize with his view of the world.  That's another issue that is troubling...

Ok sorry and never mind.? I thought you were referring to "blood on his hands" not the "literally".? I don't believe he is washing blood off his hands.

No I was just explaining a chain of events that maybe would explain the post better.? It wasn't meant to stray off into another topic or debate any anti this or that.? I didn't intend for this to show anyone's true colors.

Some countries like Iran are still learning the ways and mannerisms of Western countries.

The country has a way and culture far removed from Americas.

fair enough, sorry


now for peace, i have uploaded an amazing Iranian film (dvd quality )
THE TASTE OF THE CHERRY (palme d'or at cannes 1997)


if you havent seen it and want to watch a very good movie here is the link (need the divxwebplayer movie)

>>> http://stage6.divx.com/user/leeharveyoswald/video/1669954/cerise

(try not to post the link in other places so it doesnt get deleted)

No one stopped him, but some were trying to. Which makes no sense to me.

I think his Columbia speech reinforced a lot of the sinister qualities about this guy.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iran/2007/iran-070926-irna01.htm

Full Full text of President Ahmadinejad's address before UN

besides the constant reference to god and monotheism (and some classic hypocrisy) , he made a pretty good speech.


now, G W Bush :
http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=texttrans-english&y=2007&m=September&x=20070925120250eaifas0.1523096

is an idiot ;)

Stumbled across this while looking for text of the Democratic debate:

Ahmadinejad Invites U.N. Inspectors to Search for Homosexuals

Just days after asserting that there are no homosexuals in Iran, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad today invited United Nations inspectors into his country to search for homosexuals.

"We have nothing to hide," Mr. Ahmadinejad said in a speech to the United Nations General Assembly. "You can search the entire country - even the airport bathrooms."

While some senior U.S. diplomats expressed skepticism about the Iranian president's offer to allow U.N. inspectors to search his country for homosexuals, Mr. Ahmadinejad attempted to silence the skeptics by permitting the use of "advanced gaydar technology" as part of the proposed inspections.

"In Iran we have the most advanced gaydar in the world and we are prepared to share it with you," he said.

In the immediate aftermath of Mr. Ahmadinejad's speech, it was unclear as to who would lead the U.N.'s inspection efforts, but most diplomats assumed that the task would fall to Mohamed ElBaradei, head of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).

At a press conference at the United Nations, Mr. ElBaradei acknowledged that he had no previous experience searching for homosexuals, but said that if chosen to lead the inspection effort he would make sure that the inspections were "rigorous and thorough."

"The possibility that Iran may possess homosexuals is a serious matter to the world community," Mr. ElBaradei said. "There has been evidence for some time that Iran may be attempting to build a Broadway musical."

Elsewhere, President Bush made his first official comment on the situation in Myanmar, telling reporters, "I will support whichever side is easier to pronounce."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/ahmadinejad-invites-un-_b_66114.html

So...the message is: If you're a fag feel free to reveal yourself to the UN, and last but not least, our death penalty.

I'm starting to like this guy.


Definitely starting to like this guy.

well,i don't wanna talk about iranian president,because i don't know nothing about him?

but do you really believe thathe is evil like bushand us papers said?

tell me one reason for that,bush soldgers killed more people than iranian soldgers?

btw,in world history only one army used nuclear weapon,us army,think about it?

The US papers aren't too fond of Bush, so you probably shouldn't lump the two together in their opinions of Ahmadinejad.  And despite what you think of Bush (I don't like him either), the Iranian regime can be judged on its own merits. 


While I agree that being the only power to use an atomic weapon during war is hardly the basis for the moral high ground, it's silly to judge any current administration by something that happened over sixty years ago and surely the real goal should be the elimination of ALL such weapons.  Since the height of the Cold War, the US has reduced its nuclear stockpiles by about 2/3.  In the meantime, India, Pakistan, and Israel have acquired/developed nuclear weapons, while others (North Korea and Iran, in particular) have instituted programs to develop such weapons.     

But they still hold 6 times the amount of the rest of the world combined, not counting Russia which they match.

So it's not about being good, just pragmatics. Same goes for Iran. They've seen what happened to Iraq and Afghanistan, so they send a message.

polluxm .... the article is joke ... come on, dont tell me YOU fell for it ? not YOU !!!  :)

It was a good article then :hihi: