Bill would make state first to ban swatting of children under 4

[Cornell]

This law is crazy.  The children will be so out of control because they KNOW they can be.

I was spanked as a child and I'll tell you that if I just thought that I would get yelled or something just taken away for a short period of time, I wouldn't have hesitated.

I swore that I wouldn't spank my children too until I had a couple.  They need to know who is boss at a young age.  My kids are spoiled rotten, but they have respect.  My older son wouldn't stay in time outs, if you took something away from him, he would hunt for it and find it.  He was out of control and I had to get a grip on him.  He is now 11 and hasn't been spanked in many years because the limits were finally set.  If they weren't, he would be walking all over me now.

Just a short story of what happened one day at the mall when he was 3 years old.  He was out of control in a store and throwing things around.  I had it with him and pulled him out of the store and into the mall.  I spanked his butt and sat him on a bench.  I saw this woman walking towards me and I thought she was going to give me shit for spanking him but instead she said "I just want to tell you that you are a very good mother.  You can't let children act that way.  Too many people do these days.  I applaud you."  Guess what - my son NEVER threw something in a store ever again.

[The Dog]

Izzy you are out of your mind.  My parents spanked/slapped me and all 5 of my brothers when we misbehaved. NONE of us ever got into fights, none of us ever tried drugs, none of us did anything seriously bad - in other words it didnt effect our behaviour negatively at all.  If anything it made us behave better b/c nobody wanted to get spanked again.  All of us are successfuly, well adjusted, normal adults now.

You want to try to "reason with" a 4 year old?  Thats just ridiculous.  Children aren't equals, they are not your friends.  They are kids. 

If you want to point to aggressive behavior in kids i'd say video games and violent movies have a much bigger impression then a spank or two.

Was I the only one who thought Izzy was out of his mind? 

A parent should have the right to spank their kids if necessary.. I was only spanked once in my whole childhood and I turned out fine. Laws are giving children too much control.. they should know their limits and well if you have to spank em once who cares?

My father was hit with a belt growing up and he is one of the most gentle people I know. He is smart and intelligent, graduated from UCLA, is an artist and is now a teacher. Spanking hasn't made him violent OR hate his parents. My grandfather (the one who spanked him) is the kindest person I know and is amazingly good hearted. I look up to the guy and he is certainly not evil or angry.

Personally I don't plan on spanking my kids. Doesn't make this law right either way.

hehehe, i like how you put the word "BELT" in caps - as if that were really bad!   The belt was one of the nicer punishments I got as a kid when I was a little turd. my older brothers got it even worse!  the spankings were probably .000000001% of my childhood, compared to the 99.99999% of the time which was my parents congratulating me on my successes, showed me love and affection and took interest in my life.  I was never bruised or swollen but I knew one thing for sure, DO NOT PISS OFF MOM AND DAD. 

My parents were smart, rather then have 1,000 rules, we lived by one major one - do not embarrass the family.  We were left to our own thinking and understanding to come to terms with what that meant.  sometimes we learned the hard way, most often we figured it out ourselves and didn't get in trouble.

assinine laws like this put the parents on the defense and give kids the options of threatening their parents with punishment instead of the other way around!! 

[Axl4Prez2004]

I had a similar occurrence at a mall before Christmas when my son was 2. ?He saw the food court and wanted what was there apparently. ?I let him know we had some food with us and we wouldn't be stopping. ?He threw himself down and attempted a tantrum. ?I moved him over to the side of the walkway. ?I explained that it's not appropriate to act that way. ?I let him know that if he carried on, we would leave immediately. ?He carried on. ?I picked him up, screaming and crying, all the while I was smiling and walking briskly through the mall to our exit. ?Guess what, he learned the lesson. ?He never asks for anything at the store but he has a great time anyway! ?Both methods work, but consistency is the key. ?Here's the prob. with spanking. ?If you are consistent in talking out problems and providing immediate repercussions that are not physical, your power will continue. ?If you make the physical force the big weapon, or the screaming at the kid the big weapon, guess what? ?You'll have to use these options often. ?Isn't life much more peaceful when your children don't live with the threat of physical force for every transgression? ?At my house it is. ? ?(I'm such a self-important prick ? )

PS ?Think about your kid going to school where he or she's not allowed to be struck. ?Hell, if I'm at home and I get hit by my parents, hell, school's a vacation! ?I can sass the teacher and get a punishment that pales in comparison to what I'd get at home. ?Spanking just makes 1 more snot-nosed kid that disrespects authority. ?Why respect authority when it doesn't respect you??? ?Why respect authority when it doesn't respect you? ?

PS2 ?My wife asks another question. ?She saw a child hit another child (boy I wonder where the kid learned that) and the mother hit the other kid saying, "You never hit another kid!" ?Okay, makes alot of sense.

PS3 ?I hate to play Monday Morning quarterback Cornell, but I think a possible reason your kid didn't take to timeout was found in your post. ?" My kids are spoiled rotten, but they have respect." ?Really? ?I've met many "spoiled rotten" kids, and the results aren't pretty.
"They need to know who is boss at a young age." ?That's the funniest line you posted though. ?I know who my boss is at work, and he's never once physically punished me. ? ?I'm constantly amazed by this. ?Is it a sense of inferiority? ?Are you not confident in your use of language to set boundaries and rules? ?As a parent you set firm limits and a kid will adapt to the system. ?Children are not wild horses that need to be broken. ?It's not the Marines where you break their will and get them to conform. ?Children will naturally conform to the rules of the house. ?Yes, it takes alot of explaining, but, oh yeah, I forgot, that's hard work. ? ?

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

I had a similar occurrence at a mall before Christmas when my son was 2.  He saw the food court and wanted what was there apparently.  I let him know we had some food with us and we wouldn't be stopping.  He threw himself down and attempted a tantrum.  I moved him over to the side of the walkway.  I explained that it's not appropriate to act that way.  I let him know that if he carried on, we would leave immediately.  He carried on.  I picked him up, screaming and crying, all the while I was smiling and walking briskly through the mall to our exit.  Guess what, he learned the lesson.  He never asks for anything at the store but he has a great time anyway!  Both methods work, but consistency is the key.  Here's the prob. with spanking.  If you are consistent in talking out problems and providing immediate repercussions that are not physical, your power will continue.  If you make the physical force the big weapon, or the screaming at the kid the big weapon, guess what?  You'll have to use these options often.  Isn't life much more peaceful when your children don't live with the threat of physical force for every transgression?  At my house it is.     (I'm such a self-important prick  )

PS  Think about your kid going to school where he or she's not allowed to be struck.  Hell, if I'm at home and I get hit by my parents, hell, school's a vacation!  I can sass the teacher and get a punishment that pales in comparison to what I'd get at home.  Spanking just makes 1 more snot-nosed kid that disrespects authority.  Why respect authority when it doesn't respect you???  Why respect authority when it doesn't respect you? 

PS2  My wife asks another question.  She saw a child hit another child (boy I wonder where the kid learned that) and the mother hit the other kid saying, "You never hit another kid!"  Okay, makes alot of sense.

PS3  I hate to play Monday Morning quarterback Cornell, but I think a possible reason your kid didn't take to timeout was found in your post.  " My kids are spoiled rotten, but they have respect."  Really?  I've met many "spoiled rotten" kids, and the results aren't pretty.
"They need to know who is boss at a young age."  That's the funniest line you posted though.  I know who my boss is at work, and he's never once physically punished me.     I'm constantly amazed by this.  Is it a sense of inferiority?  Are you not confident in your use of language to set boundaries and rules?  As a parent you set firm limits and a kid will adapt to the system.  Children are not wild horses that need to be broken.  It's not the Marines where you break their will and get them to conform.  Children will naturally conform to the rules of the house.  Yes, it takes alot of explaining, but, oh yeah, I forgot, that's hard work.   

You're a great father.   

That's how kids should be raised.  Maybe I agree with Axl4Prez so much because that is how I was raised, but darn it, the results are evident!

Your children shouldn't have to fear you.

[Cornell]

Axl4Pres you have great points!  I tried your way for 3 years with no results.  I couldn't find anything that upset him.  If I left the mall, he would have been happy.  I do have something these days.  HE loves to play hockey.  I didn't let him go to practice one night because of something he did and he never did it again.  Now I have my leverage. 

Also, my 2nd son has NEVER been spanked.  Your way works with him and always has.  Kids are different.

[-Jack-]

hehehe, i like how you put the word "BELT" in caps - as if that were really bad!   The belt was one of the nicer punishments I got as a kid when I was a little turd. my older brothers got it even worse!  the spankings were probably .000000001% of my childhood, compared to the 99.99999% of the time which was my parents congratulating me on my successes, showed me love and affection and took interest in my life.  I was never bruised or swollen but I knew one thing for sure, DO NOT PISS OFF MOM AND DAD. 

I would even like to say that I feel like the spanking was part of that love and affection. Not that spanking is the only way you can respect your parents (I was only spanked once and respect them greatly) but in the end you really appreciate the discipline your parents dish out because they care. If spanking is just done to abuse and hurt the child the by all means the parent SHOULD be arrested, but when it's for the greater good of the child there is nothing wrong with it at all (assuming that the parent really knows the limits of the law and does not really "hurt" the child.)

And Axl4Prez you really are a great parent. Those are the techniques my own parents used on me and my brother. They were never violent but we knew who was boss. And the one time I got spanked I pretty much deserved it and I knew never to cross that line again (I took shredded cheese and spread it all across my room  ALL ACROSS. EVERYWHERE! Haha looking back good times being a 4 year old.) 

[freedom78]

I think Axl4Prez2004 has a point, in that spanking isnt effective since it is no longer an option at school (though a call to home FROM the school could remedy the lack of school spanking.) 

I truly don't know if it's effective.  I was a good kid, and I only remember being spanked once.  Either way, there's a BIG difference between spanking and abuse.  I think most people can differentiate between causing a little discomfort and leaving welts or bruises.  The problem is this: spankers don't care if YOU do NOT spank your kids...if they misbehave, that's your problem.  Zealous non-spankers, just like zealous non-smokers, believe they have a right to tell YOU how to live your life and, in this case, how to raise your children. 

Like every punishment, I'm sure that, with repetition, the fear of it wears off, so I don't know that spanking is effective each and every time a child misbehaves.  But once in a while, as long as you draw the line well short of causing physical damage (other than a little stinging and a touch o' redness), it should be a big deal. 

Also, I don't think spanking is the substitute for parenting.  If a child misbehaves because they have crappy parents, then spanking helps very little, I'm sure.     

[The Dog]

hehehe, i like how you put the word "BELT" in caps - as if that were really bad! ? The belt was one of the nicer punishments I got as a kid when I was a little turd. my older brothers got it even worse!? the spankings were probably .000000001% of my childhood, compared to the 99.99999% of the time which was my parents congratulating me on my successes, showed me love and affection and took interest in my life.? I was never bruised or swollen but I knew one thing for sure, DO NOT PISS OFF MOM AND DAD.?

I would even like to say that I feel like the spanking was part of that love and affection. Not that spanking is the only way you can respect your parents (I was only spanked once and respect them greatly) but in the end you really appreciate the discipline your parents dish out because they care. If spanking is just done to abuse and hurt the child the by all means the parent SHOULD be arrested, but when it's for the greater good of the child there is nothing wrong with it at all (assuming that the parent really knows the limits of the law and does not really "hurt" the child.)

And Axl4Prez you really are a great parent. Those are the techniques my own parents used on me and my brother. They were never violent but we knew who was boss. And the one time I got spanked I pretty much deserved it and I knew never to cross that line again (I took shredded cheese and spread it all across my room? ALL ACROSS. EVERYWHERE! Haha looking back good times being a 4 year old.)?

agreed.   when i did get spanked it was for a GOOD reason.  I tried to run my little brother over with a lawn mower (ok, I wasn't really going to run him over, but i popped it up so the blades were up and chased him a little bit).  wow, my mom saw that and went CRAZY hahah.  but can you blame her?  lets just say I never played around with dangerous equipment again.

axl4prez - i like your style.  i have no doubts you're a great dad and your kids are very well behaved.  you'd make a great VP for me heheh   

[Axl4Prez2004]

HannaHat, easy there with all that power talk V.P.!  Don't make me smack ya!  I said I'd never smack a kid, not an adult.    Just kidding. 

Seriously, alot of great posts here and you can tell that the folks posting here are not the ones we have to worry about.  Alot of folks here were probably spanked a handful of times and for very good reason.  The lawnmower thing would be pretty damn traumatizing!     If I saw that, yeah, I'd be tempted to smack the living daylights out of ya too!     (but I wouldn't  )
 
Also, thanks for the compliments.  Being a great dad is the most important job I'll ever have.  Being a good role model:  working hard, setting a good example, respecting all people, the list goes on and on. 

Darn, back to the spanking thing.  Wasn't there a line in the movie Schindler's List defining power?  I can't remember what it was, but damn it was pertinent to this conversation!   

Also, -Jack-, my wife got a huge kick out of that cheese story.  That's hilarious!     It could have been worse, other stuff would have stained it pretty bad.     "Grate" stuff. 
   

[-Jack-]

Also, -Jack-, my wife got a huge kick out of that cheese story.  That's hilarious!     It could have been worse, other stuff would have stained it pretty bad.     "Grate" stuff. 

  I was a weird kid.

[Communist China]

The only way I could possibly imagine kids ever ever ever being violent is if their parents lightly spanked them at one time before they were 4 years old.

This is one of the worst ideas I've ever seen. I get that hitting a less-than-4 kid is probably somewhat uncalled for, but its but of a vicious epidemic in child 'safety'. Let the kids play dodgeball, let the parents punish their own kids.


Besides, nothing would be better for a kid than to have his parents taken away if they spanked him when he was trying to eat various pieces of furniture.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Settle down Communist China!  Don't drag dodgeball into this!  I'm 1000% in favor of good ol' dodgeball.  And I'm not talkin' about the new cooshy Nerf balls.  I'm talkin' good ol' fashioned red kick-ball style dodge balls that leave welts.  That was some fun stuff.   
However, you need a good gym teacher around to make sure there are no head shots.