Duff in BassPlayer mag March 04

[Booker Floyd]

Mmm-kay, I think it's funny when somebody says he doesn't like something and it's still being used on the products he's putting out... HE doesn't use it, but HIS name is on the album anyway..... Sorry for offending you with that.

I guess you are incapable of making that distinction...

So if Slash said something like "I cant stand handling a mixing board, theres too many knobs...," you would find it funny that HE doesnt like sitting at a mixing board, yet a record with HIS name on it has been mixed?  I cant see the difference.  And its kind of stupid to say a record with HIS name features Pro Tools when it seems Snakepits only use of it was a single sound effect...

You still havent pointed out where he says he doesnt like Pro-Tools, as opposed to personally sitting behind a computer and using Pro Tools....but I didnt expect you to.  You really have no point.

Falcon and metallex78 seems to be understanding what I'm trying to say. The fact that VR is interested in using Pro Tools and stuff might make Slash do something new. That to me is more interesting than hearing another Snakepit album.  

Care to explain how you think Pro Tools might make Slash do something new?  Its a recording/editing program...its just a faster, easier way to essentially do the same things theyve always done with tape in the studio.  So please enlighten me as to how its use will inspire musical innovation...



/jarmo

[Doc Emmett Brown]

Mmm-kay, I think it's funny when somebody says he doesn't like something and it's still being used on the products he's putting out...

Jarmo, it depends on what this "something" is.  Are you referring to: 1) a sound/style of music, or 2) a of technology used to speed the process?

For 2, Slash can always get a sound engineer to do the dirty work without compromising his own creativity and style of making music.

In 1, we're talking creativity.  If he feels happy with what Matt considers as "contemporary"  then more power to him!   The band has to "mesh".

GNR evolved a lot while Slash was part of it.  This is just another path he's choosing to evolve on with the people that he likes working with.

[jarmo]

Booker, I don't think if you have noticed, but some artists are against the use of things like Pro Tools and they like to point it out. I like to think Slash is one of those old time type of recording artists.

They just want to record the old way. RATM even printed something like "these album was made with guitar, bass, drums" on their 1993 album, that was before Pro Tools became a standard.

Mixing an album and using the same kind of software that a majority of today's "hit" makers use, is a little different thing.


To me the Slash quote says, he saw how it was used and thought the old way of doing things was better. Do you really think Slash himself was playing with Pro Tools on a computer to make that sound effect? As far as I know, Slash isn't even into computers....


/jarmo

[Booker Floyd]

To me the Slash quote says, he saw how it was used and thought the old way of doing things was better. Do you really think Slash himself was playing with Pro Tools on a computer to make that sound effect? As far as I know, Slash isn't even into computers....

Thats exactly the point - He isnt into computers, therefore he doesnt like using Pro Tools.  Thats exactly the sentiment I see expressed in that particular quote.  It doesnt mean that hes against a producer/engineer using it, and thats what you dont seem to get.  If he allowed its use on Aint Life Grand and Contraband, then common sense dictates that hes not fundamentally against it.  If you dont see this, then I give up.  I think Ive explained it clearly enough times, Im only repeating myself.

Jarmo, it depends on what this "something" is.  Are you referring to: 1) a sound/style of music, or 2) a of technology used to speed the process?

For 2, Slash can always get a sound engineer to do the dirty work without compromising his own creativity and style of making music.

In 1, we're talking creativity.  If he feels happy with what Matt considers as "contemporary"  then more power to him!  The band has to "mesh".

GNR evolved a lot while Slash was part of it.  This is just another path he's choosing to evolve on with the people that he likes working with.

 

Common sense prevails!  Hope is not lost...

[jarmo]

Umm, of course he's not gonna like to use it himself since it's a computer software.

If you read the Slash quote again, it seems like he just doesn't like the new style of doing things while his band mates do seem use some of the new technology available.

I don't think that Slash would love the idea for them to bring in a guy that took Slash's guitar tracks and started cutting and pasting them in Pro Tools. Do you think he'd like that?

Note that I didn't say Slash was supposed to work in Pro Tools himself.

I suspect Dave might be more interested in that thing.

I'm saying: Slash doesn't seem to be the most technology friendly guitarist on the planet.
You're saying: He doesn't like to use it but he thinks others can.

So do you think he'd let others use PT on his tracks? I'm not so sure about it. Unless he has changed his mind since the Snakepit days (as I asked earlier in this thread).



/jarmo

[Doc Emmett Brown]

So do you think he'd let others use PT on his tracks? I'm not so sure about it. Unless he has changed his mind since the Snakepit days (as I asked earlier in this thread).

On the behalf of Slash and Slash fans everywhere on this planet,

I think that Slash is ok with the use of ProTools on his tracks as long as it is respects his taste and style of music.  This can be said of any musician.

If Kusher took his tracks and shredded them, and added crap to them without Slash's knowledge (a la Paul Huge) - you bet he'd be mad. Wouldnt you?

Snakepit was his solo work, VR is a band on all fronts.  What Slash does in one doesnt necessarily carry over to the other.

Btw, this thread is about Duff in BassPlayer right?     Dont you think it's interesting that Duff likes the Foo Fighters?  I do...

[Booker Floyd]

Umm, of course he's not gonna like to use it himself since it's a computer software.

Okay, so far we agree...

If you read the Slash quote again, it seems like he just doesn't like the new style of doing things while his band mates do seem use some of the new technology available.

Thats you injecting your own meaning into it.  Take his words for face value and hes saying that the process of editing music behind a computer screen is too tedious...a criticism that would only apply to his personal use of the program, unless hes speaking on behalf of his producers/bandmates?

I don't think that Slash would love the idea for them to bring in a guy that took Slash's guitar tracks and started cutting and pasting them in Pro Tools. Do you think he'd like that?

No, but thats an entirely different subject matter?  Who said thats what they were using the program for?  

Note that I didn't say Slash was supposed to work in Pro Tools himself.

Well thats what hes quote clearly touches on: an opinion based on his encounter with Pro Tools.  Not Matts, or Daves, or a producers...He specifically says they (his producers or whatever) applied it, so hes clearly not completely against it, or the quote would be more along the lines of "Theres no Pro Tools on this record".  Then youd have yourself a point.

I'm saying: Slash doesn't seem to be the most technology friendly guitarist on the planet.
You're saying: He doesn't like to use it but he thinks others can.

Yes and Yes

So do you think he'd let others use PT on his tracks? I'm not so sure about it. Unless he has changed his mind since the Snakepit days (as I asked earlier in this thread).

Do you see that youre completely shifting the subject?

Where did this "changing his tracks" topic come from?

I dont know what theyre using the Pro Tools for, which is why its pointless to even comment on it.  It could be the same deal with the Snakepit album where theyre adding the odd sound effect, or it could be Matt and Scott fucking around with their parts and adding effects and what not.  Maybe its use has no direct effect on the music at all.  Its the same as Sorums definition of "modern"...Who knows what hes talking about?  And who knows what Duff means when he refers to Matt and Scotts use of Pro Tools?  Im just saying I dont see any inconsistency in Slashs opinion/use of Pro Tools.

2000: Slash doesnt like to use Pro Tools himself, it is used on Life Is Grand.

2004: Slash doesnt like to use Pro Tools himself, it is used on Contraband.

No difference as far as Im concerned.

Is he compromising?  I dont know...As far as I know, his philosophy is "I dont give a fuck about Pro Tools as long as I dont have anything to do with it and the music that was written stays the same," in which case its not even an issue and hes not compromising.  He would only be compromising if he himself was involved with its use.

If hes dead set against any use of Pro Tools at all, which theres no evidence of, then yes, hes be compromising.  And if thats the case, chalk it up to being in a band that is more a democracy than a dictatorship.  It wouldnt be the first time hes compromised.

[Miz]

Umm, of course he's not gonna like to use it himself since it's a computer software.

If you read the Slash quote again, it seems like he just doesn't like the new style of doing things while his band mates do seem use some of the new technology available.

I don't think that Slash would love the idea for them to bring in a guy that took Slash's guitar tracks and started cutting and pasting them in Pro Tools. Do you think he'd like that?

Note that I didn't say Slash was supposed to work in Pro Tools himself.

I suspect Dave might be more interested in that thing.

I'm saying: Slash doesn't seem to be the most technology friendly guitarist on the planet.
You're saying: He doesn't like to use it but he thinks others can.

So do you think he'd let others use PT on his tracks? I'm not so sure about it. Unless he has changed his mind since the Snakepit days (as I asked earlier in this thread).

But from what Duff said (about it being recorded live) they're hardly using it at all.  I mean, they recorded it to tape, and recorded the songs live, so I don't really know where there's a lot of space for Pro Tools in that mix.  So it's not like they're doing what The Strokes did and recording the songs 30 times, then cutting them up and putting the together the best bits from each song.

[jarmo]

Do you see that youre completely shifting the subject?

Where did this "changing his tracks" topic come from?

Umm, it was a question  I asked since it would involve using Pro Tools on something Slash recorded himself.

I was asking for your opinion and thoughts on it, but you didn't care to answer. Oh well....


random did answer it and made a good point.  


I'm not surprised that Duff likes Foo Fighters. He seems to have a broad taste in music.


/jarmo

[darkmonth]

Ok, I'm getting annoyed here.  Listen up.

Jarmo, have you even a clue what Pro Tools is?  It's just a mixing and mastering program for the PC/Mac.  All it does is display a virtual tracklist and mixing desk on screen.  

Ok, so, my point is this... using Pro Tools makes not one difference to song writing, song structures, etc.  It doesn't make anything sound modern or new.  It's just efficiency and speed of work.  That's all.  I have recorded in multiple studios, using analogue tape with mixing decks, digital systems using Pro Tools and also Cubase etc.  None of them make any difference.  The songs are still all made in the rehearsal room, before Pro Tools is even mentioned.

So, Slash's playing wont be any different.  He will still be Slash.  The songs.  Simple, they will be hard rock songs.  Pro Tools?  Making a difference?  Puhleeze... go and get some practical experience with it.  I have done, and as I said.  No different to tape, only quicker and easier to mix.

So Slash didn't like sitting behind a PC, fine... he will sit on the couch behind the producer while he mixes the album.  The band will sit in the room saying "more bass...", "less treble on the hihat", "more reverb on the guitar solo".

It's how it is.  So, let's all stop arguing over a tiny quote that means fuck all.

[jarmo]

Jarmo, have you even a clue what Pro Tools is?  It's just a mixing and mastering program for the PC/Mac.

I haven't used it. I thought it did more than that since it seems to be so popular.

You can't use it to add effects and stuff to the tracks? Sorry, but I thought they could use PT to process the guitar, drum, bass tracks etc. and change the sound in all kinds of ways so you don't have to play the instruments through certain pedals.

Miz just said how you can use it to put together songs from different takes. As far as I know, that's not the way Slash normally does things, right?

Even if that is possible without the software, it might be a more interesting option since PT seems to make it a lot quicker to do it.

Isn't mixing just something to do with adjusting sound levels? Would you say putting together a track from 30 different takes is "mixing"?

So if you're sure that you can't do anything like that with PT, I'm greatful if you correct me.  



/jarmo

[metallex78]

I'm not surprised that Duff likes Foo Fighters. He seems to have a broad taste in music.
/jarmo

Yeah, it doesn't seem that unusual for Duff to like Foo Fighters, they are a rock band and all.
I love Foo Fighters, I think a VR/FF tour would be kickass!

[jarmo]

Yeah, it doesn't seem that unusual for Duff to like Foo Fighters, they are a rock band and all.
I love Foo Fighters, I think a VR/FF tour would be kickass!

VR opening for FF?

That might be interesting.

I wonder how the rest of the band feels about Foo Fighters.



/jarmo

[darkmonth]

Jarmo, have you even a clue what Pro Tools is?  It's just a mixing and mastering program for the PC/Mac.

I haven't used it. I thought it did more than that since it seems to be so popular.

You can't use it to add effects and stuff to the tracks? Sorry, but I thought they could use PT to process the guitar, drum, bass tracks etc. and change the sound in all kinds of ways so you don't have to play the instruments through certain pedals.

Miz just said how you can use it to put together songs from different takes. As far as I know, that's not the way Slash normally does things, right?

Even if that is possible without the software, it might be a more interesting option since PT seems to make it a lot quicker to do it.

Isn't mixing just something to do with adjusting sound levels? Would you say putting together a track from 30 different takes is "mixing"?

So if you're sure that you can't do anything like that with PT, I'm greatful if you correct me.  



/jarmo

Ok, yes, it can be used for effects etc too, and of course you can splice stuff around and mix different tracks together.  But none of that is anything new.  All these things have been around on analogue for years.  Effects with effects racks and splicing etc with tape.  It's just slower.  But some old school guys just don't like computers.  That's no bad thing.  Computers aren't the be all and end all.  Slash wants to get on stage.  That's what he does.  That's why he doesn't like Pro Tools.  It's something he isn't in to, and hasn't grown up with.

Oh... one more thing.  Anyone who starts fucking around with to many effects in Pro Tools (such as guitar amp sims etc) is a fool.  Keep it simple.  To many people go off on one because they get with the new software.  But I have faith that Contraband will be a kick ass rock record and nothing more or less.  I have been waiting for that since 1993.

[Booker Floyd]

Jarmo, have you even a clue what Pro Tools is?  It's just a mixing and mastering program for the PC/Mac.

I haven't used it. I thought it did more than that since it seems to be so popular.

You can't use it to add effects and stuff to the tracks? Sorry, but I thought they could use PT to process the guitar, drum, bass tracks etc. and change the sound in all kinds of ways so you don't have to play the instruments through certain pedals.

Miz just said how you can use it to put together songs from different takes. As far as I know, that's not the way Slash normally does things, right?

Even if that is possible without the software, it might be a more interesting option since PT seems to make it a lot quicker to do it.

Isn't mixing just something to do with adjusting sound levels? Would you say putting together a track from 30 different takes is "mixing"?

So if you're sure that you can't do anything like that with PT, I'm greatful if you correct me.  



/jarmo

It can do all of that stuff, but it certainly doesnt mean thats what its being used for. Besides, thats all stuff that could be done in production anyway, no matter what means of recording/mixing theyre using - Pro Tools or not.  

The whole Pro Tools thing is such a non-issue, and is being highly overrated in this discussion of "modern-sound".  It just so happens that its become the industry standard for recording/producing over the last decade and Velvet Revolver seems to use it, however sparsely.  It really makes no difference at the the end of the day since it comes down to the people writing the music and the people producing it, because they would probably doing the same shit without Pro Tools, it just wouldnt be as convenient.

[Miz]

Ok, I'm getting annoyed here.  Listen up.

Jarmo, have you even a clue what Pro Tools is?  It's just a mixing and mastering program for the PC/Mac.  All it does is display a virtual tracklist and mixing desk on screen.  

Ok, so, my point is this... using Pro Tools makes not one difference to song writing, song structures, etc.  It doesn't make anything sound modern or new.  It's just efficiency and speed of work.  That's all.  I have recorded in multiple studios, using analogue tape with mixing decks, digital systems using Pro Tools and also Cubase etc.  None of them make any difference.  The songs are still all made in the rehearsal room, before Pro Tools is even mentioned.

So, Slash's playing wont be any different.  He will still be Slash.  The songs.  Simple, they will be hard rock songs.  Pro Tools?  Making a difference?  Puhleeze... go and get some practical experience with it.  I have done, and as I said.  No different to tape, only quicker and easier to mix.

Well actually, Metallica used it to cut up their songs and rearrange them, and put vocals over different sections so it was all out of key, and now we have St Anger.  

But I didn't get the impression that that's what they're using it for, I mean, Duff said it was only on a few tracks, so it's probably just to add some effects and eq, and there's quite a possibility that it's mainly been used for Scott.  AS he wasn't there for a lot of the recording, and Duff said Scott was really into it, maybe it's just for vocals?

Who knows...


And I hope VR don't open for Foo Fighters.  I mean, ok the Foo's wouldn't be about to open for VR cos they're a huge international act and VR are basically completely new, but no band with Slash and Duff in should be supporting people with less talent than Axl's hot pants.  I don't hate the Foo Fighters, I think they're pretty cool, but not in the same league as VR.  No way.

But (in response to Jarmo) I do remember Slash saying in an interview he liked them, so a joint tour might not be completly out of the question.

[Miz]

Oh... one more thing.  Anyone who starts fucking around with to many effects in Pro Tools (such as guitar amp sims etc) is a fool.  Keep it simple.  To many people go off on one because they get with the new software.

Yeah, I mean check out how shit Buckethead sounds...

And Billy Howerdel is such a fool...APC suck so bad...

Pro-Tools isn't all bad, but when it's grossly misused like Metallica did...then....well, people that stupid shouldn't be allowed near a computer.

[Booker Floyd]

Well actually, Metallica used it to cut up their songs and rearrange them, and put vocals over different sections so it was all out of key, and now we have St Anger.  

Yeah, like I said, it all depends on whos making the music.  Can VR cut up their tracks like that and add a million effects?  Yes.  Are they going to?  I highly doubt it.  

But I didn't get the impression that that's what they're using it for, I mean, Duff said it was only on a few tracks, so it's probably just to add some effects and eq, and there's quite a possibility that it's mainly been used for Scott.  AS he wasn't there for a lot of the recording, and Duff said Scott was really into it, maybe it's just for vocals?

Exactly...that would make more sense.

And I hope VR don't open for Foo Fighters.  I mean, ok the Foo's wouldn't be about to open for VR cos they're a huge international act and VR are basically completely new, but no band with Slash and Duff in should be supporting people with less talent than Axl's hot pants.

I agree until the talent part.  The Foo Fighters are one of the best, most established bands doing it right now.  Easily one of the last decades best.  However, while VR have a lot to prove, I think its best to maneuver a co-headlining/small headlining deal instead of an opening act, because despite having a clean slate, theyre obviously a big, star-powered band.

I don't hate the Foo Fighters, I think they're pretty cool, but not in the same league as VR.  No way.

Thats terribly premature.  As it stands, VR cant touch Foo Fighters for the simple fact that youre comparing a new, unproven group to a proven, highly successful band such as FF.

But (in response to Jarmo) I do remember Slash saying in an interview he liked them, so a joint tour might not be completly out of the question.

A joint tour, without the opening act stigma, would be great.

[Falcon]

The Foos are amazing, a great rock band with 8 years of platinum records, hit singles et al.

VR, though star studded, is a new band with nothing accomplished and alot to prove.  

Also, the Foos are headed bact to the studio after their members finish touring with side projects.

That should end the "Foo opening or co-headlining" talk.

VR is also a touring risk considering Weiland's personal issues.  I look for them to do headline a club tour, then move to theatres with a national opening act if the record takes off.  

[darkmonth]

Yeah, I mean check out how shit Buckethead sounds...

hate to say it, but... my point exactly.  If BH wants to fuck around like a kid in a bedroom when he records his albums, and come out with guitar sounds like that... fine.  But if Slash and Co dropped their Marshall's in favour of AmpFarm, I would be fucking angry.  BH's on record guitar sounds, are mostly very cack.  And many of them are amp sim software.  I guess it's for ease of recording. He probably makes his music in front of the PC.  But it doesn't always sound so hot.

Pro-Tools isn't all bad, but when it's grossly misused like Metallica did...then....well, people that stupid shouldn't be allowed near a computer.

As I stated before, all of that can be done without digital tools such as Pro Tools (by the way, Pro Tools is being used here as the main tool, but Cubase, Logic, Pro Tools, Nuendo, Sonar... they are all the same.  Pro Tools just so happens to be an over priced hardware linked peice of audio production software that seems to have been lucky enough to capture the professional music industry's attention.).  So basically, Metallica's use of Pro Tools wasn't anything new.... plus, I like St. Anger.