When Did GNR "Jump the Shark?"

[mike_giuliana]

I find it hard to believe that you guys dont think the Sympathy for The Devil release was the main shark jump. I remember hearing it for the first time vividly. Matt Sorum was doing an interview on the radio and the DJ said it was time to hear the new GNR song from the film interview with a Vampire. When Axl started singing Mick Jagger's lines, I knew the band would never be the same. I could just sense it. GNR was supposedly hard at work on a new album at that time, and a Stones cover was the best they could do? It was unreal. Years later, Slash even admitted that when you hear that song, its the sound of the band breaking up. Slash, I couldn't have said it better myself.

I think the band was over by then, but the estranged video was jumping the shark... It was even more in the public eye. I remember in 1993 when it came out, grunge was getting so huge and that was all the outdated stuff they (grunge) was going away from and the public followed..

Even since I don't have you was pretty fuicking lame..

[jameslofton29]

Mike, good post. I never understood why GNR didn't do something spectacular in an attempt to kill the grunge movement. They were the only band capable of being able to influence a change in the movement. Instead, we just got Spaghetti. It really boggles the mind. I believe if Izzy had stayed in the band, Axl and Izzy could have created something to destroy grunge before it took over the music scene. Music hasn't been the same since grunge took over in the early /mid 90's. When grunge started dying, there was just a huge black hole left in its place that no band has yet to fill. Really sad.

[mike_giuliana]

yeah, well the simplicity of afd was a turning point in music and the public latched onto it.. Grunge again did what afd did, it was hard rock that was basic.. Something like estranged (as great as it is) was just to much for that current public.. The overblown rockstar was over, the larger then life image was over.. Stripped down hard rock that was somewhat depresing ruled the airwaves. Gnr were still viewed as a hair band and that generation by a lot of younger people.. They needed a great rocker that was basic like wttj...

[jameslofton29]

Yeah, I think an AFD Vol.2 released instead of Spaghetti could have had a major impact on the grunge movement. At the least, it might have shut Kurt Cobain's mouth. LOL! I think one of the reasons for GNR's irrelevancy during that time was how the band just kept milking Illusions. They were still releasing singles from it in 93. I never understood that, until years later, when I realized GNR couldn't write songs without Izzy. Alot of people dont realize the major impact of Izzy's departure. I will go out on a limb and say the following: Had Izzy never left the band, the Grunge movement may never have occured.

[mike_giuliana]

Yeah man I was in shock when estranged came out as a single in 93.. I believe I first saw it over a friend's house in the summer that year,, Big fight for top spot with last dance with mary jane with tom petty.. A guy they should have been blowing out of the water..

One problem I felt from the illusions were to many ballads.. I think one song be it november rain or estranged should have been used... Two was just a bit much ,estranged had very very little airtime on radio, it was just to long.. And if you notice dc, ws like a million dollar, then nr was 2 million plus, then estranged was over 3 million.. I believe it was second most expensive behind MJ's scream.. Meanwhile the videos were now like 10 grand and ruling the airwaves.. Music went from sex drugs rock n roll nothing but a good time excess to slacker desressed I hate my parents type attitude.. Also the grunge movement was a bit anti female as objects.. Yeah and afd two would have been something great,  punk cover album with as 1958 jimmy belmont ballad was not good, and the band didn't even support it.. Just too many ballads and each one was bigger then the next..

Any other time estranged would have been a hit, great vocals, great riffs ,great solos....

[jameslofton29]

mike, although the excess ballads were a bit too much, I don't consider that the primary weakness of Illusions. The albums were polished to death. Overproduction to the extreme! And the band only worked on it for 2 years! Had we got rawer versions of the albums, I think Illusions would have been timeless, instead it sounds very dated.   I worry about CD suffering a similar fate. In fact, it may already be dated and we haven't even heard it yet. And I can't even imagine the overproduction of CD. With Axl trying to make the perfect album, he runs the risk of making it too perfect.

[mike_giuliana]

mike, although the excess ballads were a bit too much, I don't consider that the primary weakness of Illusions. The albums were polished to death. Overproduction to the extreme! And the band only worked on it for 2 years! Had we got rawer versions of the albums, I think Illusions would have been timeless, instead it sounds very dated.? ?I worry about CD suffering a similar fate. In fact, it may already be dated and we haven't even heard it yet. And I can't even imagine the overproduction of CD. With Axl trying to make the perfect album, he runs the risk of making it too perfect.

I don't find it as a weakness by any means in the album itself.. Well for one it definetly drifted from afd (my favorite era and album) but the public was fed alot of big productions.. Gnr went from a band you had headbangers loving to a band that your mom and sister loved.. It was a bit of over exposure during a change in music.. 99% of the songs on both illusions are really good to great, but that is froma big gnr fan's point of view.. Trust me NR by itself after DC would have been amazing without ading estranged.. Maybe if the trilogy made more sence it would have been better in regards to that video in several directions.. I perdsonally was let down by the video, was a bit much for the average person..

As for cd if it's heavy with orchestra and long epic ballads it might not be for me.. I'll be honest loads of extended ballads and keyboards bore me

I want more like coma, ycbm, civil war.. Afd type is great and any other solid rockers.. ANother older fav of mine is metallica, now if new gnr has epic rockers like four horsemen, for whom the bell tolls, one, master of puppets, whiplash, fade to black, then they will be amazing,,,

[Krispy Kreme]

I'm going with the first show featuring 976-horns ...

I was shocked to see that  the horns made  their first appearance in 1989 when GNR was opening for the Stones (assuming that  the DVD I got that says it is from  1989 is in fact from that show).

[jarmo]

I'm going with the first show featuring 976-horns ...

I was shocked to see that? the horns made? their first appearance in 1989 when GNR was opening for the Stones (assuming that? the DVD I got that says it is from? 1989 is in fact from that show).

I think they had horns back in 1986 too.....

Imagine, GN'R had horns on stage in the good ol' days..... 

 



/jarmo

[kaasupoltin]

What's wrong with the horns? They dont bother me at all.

[Fudgin_Hell]

I think GN'R jumped the shark after slash left n' when the 02 tour was stopped.

[mikegiuliana]

when did they jump the shark.?? When I was watching paris live on ppv and saw those fucking macy's day parade balloon props for the afd monster

[HK-47]

when did they jump the shark.?? When I was watching paris live on ppv and saw those fucking macy's day parade balloon props for the afd monster

I'll second that. It was all going so well. . . until . . . .

[Twisted Nerve 85]

Bottom line, they never Jumped the shark, they js drowned in their own pool of Whiskey,Vodka,Heroin, and Ego. But somehow the name still lives on, Much to the dismay of hardcore lifelong GnR fans who would rather the band be called Axl & Friends. But thats ok, because we still have yet to see the ful potential with this band, they'll either knock it out of the park......or strike out miserably. It all resides on Axl's shoulders, so will this new band live up to the level of talent and great music that has been GnR's only positive trademark? well that remains to be seen.

But with all this pressure riding on Axl, I can see why he's taking so fucking long with Chinese Democracy, shit if it were me ID NEVER RELEASE IT!!!! 

[mikegiuliana]

Yeah we have to wait and see, but I do think he added pressure on himself by saying he had an album 6 years ago, and performing at the vmas then having a failed tour then going away like he never returned.. He put out oh my god in 1999 and I was happy, not my favorite tune but it would have been a lot more easy to be forgving towards him then.. Now though the expectations on the material is unreal and it could have been avoided..

[jameslofton29]

I agree, Mike. Axl dug this hole himself. If he wasn't going to release anything, he shouldn't have kept mentioning CD all these years. One minute he says its coming soon, the next minute he says you wont have missed anything if its not released. His logic is insane. And he really needs to stop sending his hired goons to the media saying how CD is "mindblowing", "insane", and "coming soon". I'm getting to the point where its like, Give it to us or shut the fuck up.

[mikegiuliana]

I agree, Mike. Axl dug this hole himself. If he wasn't going to release anything, he shouldn't have kept mentioning CD all these years. One minute he says its coming soon, the next minute he says you wont have missed anything if its not released. His logic is insane. And he really needs to stop sending his hired goons to the media saying how CD is "mindblowing", "insane", and "coming soon". I'm getting to the point where its like, Give it to us or shut the fuck up.

exactly dude right on that's exactly the way I feel.. Why hype it to say live your life.. Either say it's coming and release it, or say nothing take your time and all is good then say you are ready..

The cool thing to do would have been being he said all this already was to really follow up his rio speech.. Come back with news wether good or bad just for the devoted fans.. He use to have a lot of balls, he would lash out against everyone who dissed him or had doubts, it's amazing how long his silence last.. Instead he has tommy or dizzy out there just picking time periods out of the air,..

[marknroses]

If I didn't post on this board yet, this is my current response.
GNR lived and died by what its front man was doing, and that's AXL. Even his brains have been fried for the last 12 years from being away from the spotlight for so long and from the pressures that following AFD did to him, he was the man when he actually showed up and spoke up his piece of mind, which is what we fans are really here for because first and foremost the charms of a function Axl was nothing that we will ever see from anoethr Rock N' Roll frontman again.? Of course that doesn't take anything from Izzy, Steve, Duff & Slash, because they all brought their own personalities with the image as well. In my opinion, they all never really changed to this day, so thus they never jumped the shark (except Izzy maybe, when he decided that riding paper airplanes was better than collaborating with the others on UYI albums and thus becoming "Mr. Invisible", but his approach to music never changed). That's why we have VR and Adler's Appetite, take them for what they are, they never changed their attitudes to music and their fans, if anything they have brought the show closer and more intimate.

So jumping the shark is with Axl. This can be traced back in my opinion to the MTV interview with Kurt Loder in 1990 at his house when he came out looking nothing like he did when he was doing AFD. No offense Axl, you're the greatest, but you look like a spoiled pampered pussy when you did that Kurt Loder interview. Axl began trying to look like a pretty boy. He threw threats at Vince Neil for talking shit behind him and never backed it up. Now of course GNR enjoyed more heights afterwards, but it was omen in my opinion for Axl's changing approach to rock stardom when image and glory meant more to him than the rest of the band. Then came the performance at the RIP Party where he sounded bad and looked like a doll dressed in underwear and a leather jacket, followed by RIO, which though was a great show, lacked the certain attitude he once carried with him on stage. The last time he xhibted the AFD attitude was at Farm Aid 1990 with Civil War/Down on the Farm, which is one of the greatest GNR performances I have ever seen. Sure, in Indiana 1991 and the Ritz 1991 Axl still showed signs of the old attitude on stage, an attutude filled with confidence and swagger, since he knew he had just about conquered the world with an album that he was proud of but then it never came back quite the same. Sure there was still an attitude and it was great, but it was different, filled with a strong sense of paranoia (with Axl running around stage, never staying in one place for more than a few seconds, and gesturing more with his hands and no more hip-swaying typical of AFD). That paranoia (was it about his demons, his ex-girlfriends, Nirvana?) extended itself very much offstage. Whats great about Axl is that he never choreographed anything on stage on in his songs so we fans are treated to performances that were very much an expression of Axl's attitude all the way and we can relate to that. The problem is that it got too real and it affected the direction of the band, Axl's attitude about the band, about his own life as well, and we really haven't seen a true GNR with an album and fresh material and chemistry since 1993.

But yes, I think it started with Axl's pretty-boy image on MTV in 1990 (not to mention that he was already showing signs of seclusion since he was barely coming out in public at the time anyways at the height of his rock stardom while making the UYI records, recording them in a room that was all black because he thought? that would bring him inner peace and it didn't)
 
MNR

[Rob]

Ya know the dude before me might've made some great points, but I'll never know cause that's way too long a post on a message board.

[marknroses]

Ya know the dude before me might've made some great points, but I'll never know cause that's way too long a post on a message board.

oh you lazy bumm,,,

its all good
Just watch the MTV interview with Axl and Kurt Loder from 1990 when he's talking about UYI and you'll be watching the beginning of when GNR jumped the shark. It all happened over a 4-5 year period but it started with that interviews.

If you want to know how it started with that interview, then read the post.
But I do appreciate your interest.

 
MNR