Iran supplying weapons to Iraqi insurgents?

[Bill 213]

nobody is buying what Bush is selling - they can use all the words they want, the public knows better - just look at Bush's poll numbers.

if it wasn't iran giving weapons (say syria?) we'd be saying the same things about them.? i don't think this is us making stuff up - i don't have any doubts iran is supplying weapons/aid.? but until there is a big smoking gun, i don't think any military action should take place.?

i think every U.S. citizen with an immediate blood relative in Iraq should be the ones voting on whether we should bomb iran in a war that was big mistake anyway. i can guess what the result would be. and remember its still a fact that not a single congressman or woman has a child serving in iraq.

I guess you don't know who Jim Webb is then?

no i don't.

but still, why don't you tell us how many congress men and women there are, and then tell us how many have a child serving in iraq or afghanistan. the numbers are still embarrasing because they know to keep their kids and immediate relatives out of the military. there could be no other reason because in pre-vietnam times it was the opposite.

By shoving a silver spoon down their throats their kids don't have to join the military.? Don't forget the US armed forces are strictly volunteer and because these days serving for this country has become a joke because the leadership can't tell their ass from a hole in the ground, then the enticement to join the services isn't the same as it was pre-nam.......but even if the congressmen and such do have children that join the military, there are also ways around serving in a combat zone.? Just look at Bush during his National Guard tenure in Nam...Daddy worked some strings and got him a cozy little job (which he didn't even show up for half the time).?
You know James Stewart of It's a Wonderful Life fame was a one star General...how incredible is that.? The man had already had huge box office success and he left it all behind to serve his country.? In this day and age we have a sports star (Tillman from the Arizona Cardinals) go and join the Army to fight in the war and his own fucking men kill him.? The whole world has changed considerably since pre-nam.

My view on this whole Iran thing is this.....those weapons could have gotten into the country in a million different ways.? Christ for all we know the US government could have planted them in order to get attention drawn away from the fuckup and have a new front to battle with the Democrats in this childlike bickering.? What cracks me up is watching those videos of the terrorist training camps they show and you see them wearing American BDU's and using old M16 A-1's and other former US Army stuff.? We put the majority of those weapons into Iraq many years ago.? Maybe we should be sanctioning ourself since we armed Saddam Hussein's outfit.? Either way, this situation has gotten extremely fucked up to the point that soon there will be no chance possible for diplomatic solutions.?
It seems to me that Bush is the one always quick to dismiss any type of diplomatic solution with the "we will not cooperate with terrorists" arguement.? Another thing that strikes me quite odd is....with 80% of America supposedly unhappy with him as President and the rest of the world looking at us thinking we're the scum of the planet and the continous fuck ups by the administration running the country....you think we'd do something to show our displeasure (not violently).? Voting the Democrats into power made a statement, but so far Bush has basically shrugged it off with not one bit of worry.? Perhaps it's time the people of the US started to take action to remove the President.? After all this is OUR country, not some asshole wanna-be Texan from Connecticut.? If the 80% of Americans that supposedly hate Bush would unite and take it to Washington, take it to the White House....stand outside demanding Bush resign the presidency and show him that we are no longer willing to accept an administration that has no concern with bettering the USA.?
It's a long shot, but really something needs to change.? No matter how many troops we put in Iraq...that situation is not gonna change.? We've already done more damage to that country than Saddam Hussein ever touched.? If those people wanted democracy, they would have fought for it.? They prefer to be ran by a government that forefronts religious views and our brand of democracy will not mesh with that no matter how hard you try to shove it down their throats.? If they descend into civil war of course Iran will step in and help the Shiites out, but isn't that what Reagan and Bush Sr. were paying Saddam Hussein to stop all those years ago in the 80's?? So fucked up.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Oh boy...war with Iran...

Iraq is bordered by Iran...Iran shares a border with Afghanistan.

WOW!  A three-front war!

[The Dog]

nobody is buying what Bush is selling - they can use all the words they want, the public knows better - just look at Bush's poll numbers.

if it wasn't iran giving weapons (say syria?) we'd be saying the same things about them.? i don't think this is us making stuff up - i don't have any doubts iran is supplying weapons/aid.? but until there is a big smoking gun, i don't think any military action should take place.?

i think every U.S. citizen with an immediate blood relative in Iraq should be the ones voting on whether we should bomb iran in a war that was big mistake anyway. i can guess what the result would be. and remember its still a fact that not a single congressman or woman has a child serving in iraq.

I guess you don't know who Jim Webb is then?

no i don't.

I figured you didn't.

Jim Webb is the current senator of Virginia.  His victory was the deciding factor in giving the Democrats the majority in the senate.  His son, Jimmy is an infantry Lance Corporal in the U.S. Marine Corps, and currently serving in Iraq. His unit is based out of Camp Lejeune.  In tribute to Jimmy and "all the people sent into harm's way", Webb wore his son's old combat boots every day during his 2006 Senate campaign.

I agree with you, the people who were behind this war should have the balls to send their kids (Then again, can you imagine the idiot bush twins in iraq? I think they'd do more harm then good).

[Gordon Gekko]

Oh boy...war with Iran...

Iraq is bordered by Iran...Iran shares a border with Afghanistan.

All those in favor of invading Iran, raise your hands.

[eddie_dean]

Oh boy...war with Iran...

Iraq is bordered by Iran...Iran shares a border with Afghanistan.

All those in favor of invading Iran, raise your hands.

Hey Budfox, are you sure you're not SLCPunk?

The media is completely hyping this intel and exaggerating what the whitehouse put out.  Don't kid yourselves into thinking you're some how brighter.  These are darktimes indeed.  Worldwar III is coming and many want to elect doves with no militay experience or knowledge into the whitehouse.  The same scare tactics you accused the administration of ae no different than Bud's post.

[Gordon Gekko]

Hey Budfox, are you sure you're not SLCPunk?

No-dishonest men are never right.

But I know who you are though: Randall Flagg.

Given the recent past it is nearly impossible to believe anything this administration will say - especially given the arrogance of the President when asked in his press conference for evidence of Iran's government's role in the supply of deadly bombs to Iraqi insurgents being used to kill and maim US soldiers. We were told nothing more than "he knows it". Like that is going to fly with our former allies, much less at home.

[The Dog]

Oh boy...war with Iran...

Iraq is bordered by Iran...Iran shares a border with Afghanistan.

All those in favor of invading Iran, raise your hands.

Hey Budfox, are you sure you're not SLCPunk?

The media is completely hyping this intel and exaggerating what the whitehouse put out.  Don't kid yourselves into thinking you're some how brighter.  These are darktimes indeed.  Worldwar III is coming and many want to elect doves with no militay experience or knowledge into the whitehouse.  The same scare tactics you accused the administration of ae no different than Bud's post.

The MEDIA is hyping the intel?!?!?!? HAHAHAHAH THats the funniest thing I've ever read on this site.  The Admin is infamous for hyping (false) intel.  This is Bush wagging the dog and banging on the fear drums.

[TAP]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6376639.stm

US contingency plans for air strikes on Iran extend beyond nuclear sites and include most of the country's military infrastructure, the BBC has learned.

It is understood that any such attack - if ordered - would target Iranian air bases, naval bases, missile facilities and command-and-control centres.

The US insists it is not planning to attack, and is trying to persuade Tehran to stop uranium enrichment.

The UN has urged Iran to stop the programme or face economic sanctions.

But diplomatic sources have told the BBC that as a fallback plan, senior officials at Central Command in Florida have already selected their target sets inside Iran.

That list includes Iran's uranium enrichment plant at Natanz. Facilities at Isfahan, Arak and Bushehr are also on the target list, the sources say.

Two triggers

BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner says the trigger for such an attack reportedly includes any confirmation that Iran was developing a nuclear weapon - which it denies.

Alternatively, our correspondent adds, a high-casualty attack on US forces in neighbouring Iraq could also trigger a bombing campaign if it were traced directly back to Tehran.

Long range B2 stealth bombers would drop so-called "bunker-busting" bombs in an effort to penetrate the Natanz site, which is buried some 25m (27 yards) underground.

The BBC's Tehran correspondent France Harrison says the news that there are now two possible triggers for an attack is a concern to Iranians.

Authorities insist there is no cause for alarm but ordinary people are now becoming a little worried, she says.

Deadline

Earlier this month US officials said they had evidence Iran was providing weapons to Iraqi Shia militias. At the time, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said the accusations were "excuses to prolong the stay" of US forces in Iraq.

Middle East analysts have recently voiced their fears of catastrophic consequences for any such US attack on Iran.

Britain's previous ambassador to Tehran, Sir Richard Dalton, told the BBC it would backfire badly by probably encouraging the Iranian government to develop a nuclear weapon in the long term.

Last year Iran resumed uranium enrichment - a process that can make fuel for power stations or, if greatly enriched, material for a nuclear bomb.

Tehran insists its programme is for civil use only, but Western countries suspect Iran is trying to build nuclear weapons.

The UN Security Council has called on Iran to suspend its enrichment of uranium by 21 February.

If it does not, and if the International Atomic Energy Agency confirms this, the resolution says that further economic sanctions will be considered.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

I really don't undestand this suicidal tendencies the USA have.
Don't they understand there is only one earth, one planet.

Or maybe they are already trying to leave Earth ...

[The Dog]

I really don't undestand this suicidal tendencies the USA have.
Don't they understand there is only one earth, one planet.

Or maybe they are already trying to leave Earth ...

Yeah b/c Iran's military exercises are just for fun, theres no meaning behind them at all right?

Whatevs ya'll - i'm TOTALLY buggin!! 

hahah 

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

I really don't undestand this suicidal tendencies the USA have.
Don't they understand there is only one earth, one planet.

Or maybe they are already trying to leave Earth ...

Yeah b/c Iran's military exercises are just for fun, theres no meaning behind them at all right?

Whatevs ya'll - i'm TOTALLY buggin!! 

hahah 

maybe Iran has nothing to lose
but really, tell me, are you guys already planning an escape from earth ?
tell me
is there a huge lader out of earth, with an exit sign, in nevada ?

[gandra]

U.S. military: Iran arming Iraq militias


BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. military officials on Sunday accused the highest levels of the Iranian leadership of arming Shiite militants in Iraq with sophisticated armor-piercing roadside bombs that have killed more than 170 American forces.

The military command in Baghdad denied, however, that any newly smuggled Iranian weapons were behind the five U.S. military helicopter crashes since Jan. 20 ? four that were shot out of the sky by insurgent gunfire.

A fifth crash has tentatively been blamed on mechanical failure. In the same period, two private security company helicopters also have crashed but the cause was unclear.

The deadly and highly sophisticated weapons the U.S. military said it traced to
Iran are known as "explosively formed penetrators," or EFPs.

The presentation was the result of weeks of preparation and revisions as U.S. officials put together a package of material to support the Bush administration's claims of Iranian intercession on behalf of militant Iraqis fighting American forces.

Senior U.S. military officials in Baghdad said the display was prompted by the military's concern for "force protection," which, they said, was guaranteed under the
United Nations resolution that authorizes American soldiers to be in Iraq.

Three senior military officials who explained the display said the "machining process" used in the construction of the deadly bombs had been traced to Iran.

The experts, who spoke to a large gathering of reporters on condition that they not be further identified, said the supply trail began with Iran's Revolutionary Guards Quds Force, which also is accused of arming the Hezbollah guerrilla army in Lebanon. The officials said the EFP weapon was first tested there.

The officials said the Revolutionary Guard and its Quds force report directly to Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

The briefing on Iran was revised heavily after officials decided it was not ready for release as planned last month.

Senior U.S. officials in Washington ? cautious after the drubbing the administration took for the faulty intelligence leading to the 2003 Iraq invasion ? had held back because they were unhappy with the original presentation.

The display appeared to be part of the White House drive that has empowered U.S. forces in Iraq to use all means to curb Iranian influence in the country, including killing Iranian agents.

It included a power-point slide program and a handful of mortar shells and rocket-propelled grenades which the military officials said were made in Iran.

The centerpiece of the display, however, was a gray metal pipe about 10 inches long and 6 inches in diameter, the exterior casing of what the military said was an EFP, the roadside bomb that shoots out fist-sized wads of nearly molten copper that can penetrate the armor on an Abrams tank.

"A normal roadside bomb is like a shortgun blast. But these are like a rifle. They're focused and they're aimed. ... It's going to take anything out in its way, go in one side and out the other," said 1st Lt. Zane Galvach, 25, of Dayton, Ohio, a soldier with the Army's 2nd Division, based in Baghdad.

Skeptical congressional Democrats said the Bush administration should move cautiously before accusing Iran of fomenting a campaign of violence against U.S. troops in Iraq.

Senate Intelligence Committee member Ron Wyden (news, bio, voting record), D-Ore., said "the administration is engaged in a drumbeat with Iran that is much like the drumbeat that they did with Iraq. We're going to insist on accountability."

On the Republican side, Sen. Trent Lott (news, bio, voting record) of Mississippi said he did not think the United States was trying to make a case for attacking Iran. Lott said the U.S. should try to stop the flow of munitions through Iran to Iraq but that "you do that by interdiction ... you don't do it by invasion."

The EFPs, as well as Iranian-made mortar shells and rocket-propelled grenades, have been supplied to what the military officials termed "rogue elements" of the Mahdi Army militia of anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. He is a key backer of Shiite Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki.

The U.S. officials glossed over armaments having reached the other major Shiite militia organization, the Badr Brigade. It is the military wing of Iraq's most powerful Shiite political organization, the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, whose leaders also have close ties to the U.S.

Many key government figures and members of the Shiite political establishment have deep ties to Iran, having spent decades there in exile during
Saddam Hussein's rule. The Badr Brigade was formed and trained by Iran's Revolutionary Guard.

An intelligence analyst in the group said Iran was working through "multiple surrogates" ? mainly in the Mahdi Army ? to smuggle the EFPs into Iraq. He said most of the components are entering the country at crossing points near Amarah, the Iranian border city of Meran and the Basra area of southern Iraq.

The analyst said Iraq's Shiite-led government had been briefed on Iran's involvement and Iraqi officials had asked the Iranians to stop. Al-Maliki has said he told both the U.S. and Iran that he does not want his country turned into a proxy battlefield.

"We know more than we can show," said one of the senior officials, when pressed for tangible evidence that the EFPs were made in Iran.

U.S. officials have alleged for years that weapons were entering the country from Iran but had until Sunday stopped short of alleging involvement by top Iranian leaders.

During the briefing, a senior defense official said that one of the six Iranians detained in January in the northern city of Irbil was the operational commander of the Quds Force.

He was identified as Mohsin Chizari, who was apprehended after slipping back into Iraq after a 10-month absence, the officer said.

The Iranians were caught trying to flush documents down the toilet, he said. They had also tried to change their appearance by shaving their heads. Bags of their hair were found during the raid, he said.

The dates of manufacture on weapons found so far indicate they were made after fall of Saddam Hussein ? mostly in 2006, the officials said.

In a separate briefing, Maj. Gen. Jim Simmons, deputy commander of Multinational Corps-Iraq, said that since December 2004, U.S. helicopter pilots have been shot at on average about 100 times a month and been hit on an average of 17 times in the same period.

He disclosed a previously unknown shootdown, a Blackhawk helicopter hit by small arms fire near the western city of Hit. The craft crash-landed but there were no casualties. Simmons was on board.

The major general said Iraqi militants are known to have SA-7, SA-14 and SA-16 shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles but none of the most recent five military crashes were caused by those weapons. He said some previous crashes had been a result of such missiles but would not elaborate.

North of Baghdad, a suicide truck bomber crashed into a police station, killing at least 30 policemen. A total of 76 people were killed or found dead across Iraq. The U.S. military said Sunday a soldier was shot and killed the day before in volatile Diyala province northeast of the capital. A second soldier was reported killed Sunday in western Baghdad.

tell just one thing : "why did us goverment and cia give support to iran radical soldgers agains Serbs military in bosnia"

well i don't get it,in bosnian war you have two sides:

-Serbs-people whose living more than 800 years on that teritory
-muslims whose live there too,but on his side you had more than 10000 soldgers from radical islamistics organizations like Alkaide

And us goverment gave suport to radical islam there

tell me fuckin WHY?

Now in Kosovo usa want to give indipendence for another radical muslims country

simply I don't get it?

[mrlee]

i dont like the leader of iran, i saw an interview with him, the amount of fake propaganda bullshit he came out with, was really annoying.

[gandra]

i don't like iran govermant too,they are soo radical,but i don't understand why did usa give a support for them in bosnia and now in kosovo???
Well 1995, 18 years old guy from my school (i don't know him a personaly),went in bosnia to war against muslima.
he was killed 6 months later,and after 5 years imuslims soldger from iran take his head in his hands found pic in one book where some

[The Dog]

I really don't undestand this suicidal tendencies the USA have.
Don't they understand there is only one earth, one planet.

Or maybe they are already trying to leave Earth ...

Yeah b/c Iran's military exercises are just for fun, theres no meaning behind them at all right?

Whatevs ya'll - i'm TOTALLY buggin!!?

hahah?

maybe Iran has nothing to lose

so does the US...its called 10 to 20 city blocks.  Nice way to avoid the issue.  Figures though.  If the US is building a ladder then I guess France is building a big hole in the sand to just stick their heads in. 

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

I really don't undestand this suicidal tendencies the USA have.
Don't they understand there is only one earth, one planet.

Or maybe they are already trying to leave Earth ...

Yeah b/c Iran's military exercises are just for fun, theres no meaning behind them at all right?

Whatevs ya'll - i'm TOTALLY buggin!!?

hahah?

maybe Iran has nothing to lose

so does the US...its called 10 to 20 city blocks.  Nice way to avoid the issue.  Figures though.  If the US is building a ladder then I guess France is building a big hole in the sand to just stick their heads in. 

I guess so, but we're going to build a new  aircraft carrier  warship with the UK ! yay !
what's funny too is that the best tank out there ... is french

Financial sanctions are the way to go with Iran, in a smart way, i ain't talking about a heavy boycott the way it went in iraq, this would only lead to radicalism.

Also, as i said, giving Iran a role, mission in the region as a Local power to handle regional peace would be a great way to make them enter the international community the way it has to be done.

[The Dog]

I really don't undestand this suicidal tendencies the USA have.
Don't they understand there is only one earth, one planet.

Or maybe they are already trying to leave Earth ...

Yeah b/c Iran's military exercises are just for fun, theres no meaning behind them at all right?

Whatevs ya'll - i'm TOTALLY buggin!! 

hahah 

maybe Iran has nothing to lose

so does the US...its called 10 to 20 city blocks.  Nice way to avoid the issue.  Figures though.  If the US is building a ladder then I guess France is building a big hole in the sand to just stick their heads in. 

Financial sanctions are the way to go with Iran, in a smart way, i ain't talking about a heavy boycott the way it went in iraq, this would only lead to radicalism.

Doesn't seem like they give a shit about sanctions:


Iran's nuclear defiance risks new sanctions

VIENNA (AFP) -
Iran has failed to comply with a UN Security Council demand to halt uranium enrichment, the UN nuclear watchdog said in a report that opens the door to new sanctions.

The United States, which accuses of Iran of seeking nuclear weapons, said international powers want to haul Iran back before the Security Council. France called for a new sanctions resolution.

But Tehran insisted that it would not halt its nuclear work.

----I don't think they are going to stop until they get nukes.  N. Korea just wanted attention and respect, Iran wants the nuke.  To those who say "well who is anyone to tell them they can't have it"...if Iran gets the bomb then the other ME nations will feel the need to get them as well.  That is not good for the region and the world.

[The Dog]

Who would have thunk it...the US had bad intelligence???  sigh 

 
    Two weeks ago, the Bush administration organized an intelligence briefing for journalists in Iraq to demonstrate that Iran was providing weapons to Iraqi insurgents. According to the anonymous briefers, the weapons -- particularly explosively formed penetrators or E.F.P.s -- were manufactured in Iran and provided to insurgents by the Quds Force -- a fact that meant direction for the operation was ?coming from the highest levels of the Iranian government.?

    Well. A raid in southern Iraq on Saturday seems to have complicated the case. There, The Wall Street Journal reports (sub. req.), troops "uncovered a makeshift factory used to construct advanced roadside bombs that the U.S. had thought were made only in Iran." The main feature of the find were several copper liners that are the main component of EFPs. But, The New York Times reports, "while the find gave experts much more information on the makings of the E.F.P.?s, which the American military has repeatedly argued must originate in Iran, the cache also included items that appeared to cloud the issue."

    Among those cloudy items were "cardboard boxes of the gray plastic PVC tubes used to make the canisters. The boxes appeared to contain shipments of tubes directly from factories in the Middle East, none of them in Iran."

[Bill 213]

Bad US intelligence  NO WAY IS THAT POSSIBLE!  I don't believe it for one second that the US would use bad intelligence to try to continue and drag this war out as long as possible until Bush can gain somewhat of a makeshit victory to trick the people into thinking that the mission is a success.  Nahhhh!

[polluxlm]

America sells to Israel, they sell to Iran and that's again sold to Iraq, which again is occupied with american weapons.

Funny how that works.

The first step is understanding that there is no right or wrong, no good or bad. It's all just silly games and schemes from every involved party to gain power and money.

Don't take sides with anyone, side with yourself, cause that's the only place you might find some honesty and truth.