Jerry Falwell dead

[The Dog]

I think its funny the first thing I said to myself when I read this was "Thank God" 

I normally don't take joy in people dying, but this guy was a true POS.

[SLCPUNK]

"I like to think of Jesus as wearin' a Tuxedo T-Shirt, that says, like, 'I want to be formal, but I like to party too.' I like to party, so I like my Jesus to party too."

[freedom78]

Don?t Believe the Hype

May 15, 2007 - I mean no disrespect to the dead, but I take the British view of obituaries, which is to try to capture the true public significance of the person who died, not just his good qualities. The truth about the Rev. Jerry Falwell is that he was a character assassin and hype artist who left little positive impact on the United States-and little negative impact either, for that matter. Besides founding Liberty University, he won?t be remembered as nearly as influential as he?s made out to be.

First, his real legacy: Falwell built the Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg, Virginia from scratch into a mega-church with a 6,000-seat auditorium. And he built Liberty University into a formidable institution that attracts over 20,000 students from around the world and a qualified faculty. Last year, Liberty?s debate team won the national championship. It?s not easy to create a university and Falwell deserves credit as an institution-builder. He will also be remembered through a famous Supreme Court case he lost, Hustler vs. Falwell, which established that public figures cannot recover damages when depicted in parodies. (The story of the lawsuit is told in the film, ?The People vs. Larry Flynt?). In that sense, he inadvertently helped bolster the First Amendment.

But Falwell?s political legacy is much less impressive. He started out as a segregationist who harshly attacked Martin Luther King through the 1960s and later called Archbishop Desmond Tutu of South Africa a phony. He was a strong supporter of Israel but openly anti-Semitic, announcing on many occasions that the anti-Christ would return as a Jew.

On September 13, 2001, Falwell said this on Pat Robertson?s show, ?The 700 Club?: ?The enemies of America give us probably what we deserve.? When asked to elaborate, Falwell added, ?When we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way?all of them who have tried to secularize America?I point the finger in their face and say, ?you helped this happen.?? Robertson replied, ?Well, I totally concur.? Falwell later apologized, unconvincingly, for offending anyone.

It was fitting that this was said on Robertson?s program, not Falwell?s. That?s because Falwell never had great success as a broadcaster or televangelist. His ?Old Time Gospel Hour? was never the most popular religious program. While he claimed 20 million viewers, the real number was a tiny fraction of that, usually below one ratings point. In the November, 1980 Nielsen ratings, for instance, ?Old Time Gospel Hour? was watched by 1.21 million people?well behind not just Oral Roberts and Jimmy Swaggert but Rex Humbard and James Robison.

According to lore (and much of the coverage of his death), November, 1980 found Falwell at the peak of his powers. That was the month Ronald Reagan was elected president, after having met with Falwell and other members of his brilliantly-named organization, ?The Moral Majority.? While Falwell might have contributed slightly to Reagan?s margin of victory, he was not even close to being instrumental in his election. With incumbent Jimmy Carter bogged down with the Iranian hostage crisis and double-digit inflation and interest rates, Reagan won with 57 percent of the vote?a huge landslide. At best, the Moral Majority added a point or two to Reagan?s totals. More likely, it contributed nothing. Exit polls showed that Carter bested Reagan among Southern Baptists, 50-46 percent. And abortion ranked well behind foreign policy and economics among issues that mattered most to voters that year.

The Moral Majority claimed to have registered eight million new voters but could never provide any hard figures, and many smaller evangelical organizations said they operated independently of Falwell. (In fact, there was considerable tension within the religious right). The real political muscle was provided by Robertson and his prot?g?, Ralph Reed. Their Christian Coalition was far more powerful than the Moral Majority, whose voter guides were never credited with winning any particular election.

From the 1980s on, Falwell existed mostly as a media creation, not a real player in national politics. He missed the cable TV revolution, which deprived him of a platform. He took over Jimmy and Tammy Faye Bakker?s PTL after it collapsed in scandal, but by then its revenues were a modest $13 million. The related theme park, Heritage USA, went into Chapter 11. His monthly magazine, National Liberty Journal, became a modest success, with an unaudited circulation of 250,000.

Falwell?s power was hyped not just by him but by a media establishment that needed a consistently conservative voice?not to mention a ?guest? who could usually be counted on to show up at the studio on time and say something provocative. On shows like ?Nightline? and ?Larry King Live,? Falwell became a spokesman for the religious right and ?good TV.? Who can forget when he claimed that the Teletubbies character Tinky Winky was actually a hidden symbol of the homosexual agenda? Ironically, he may have loomed larger among secular audiences than religious ones.

In 1994, Falwell paid for a documentary called ?The Clinton Chronicles? that supposedly implicated Bill Clinton, Vincent Foster, Ron Brown and Jim McDougal in a cocaine-smuggling operation. A man shown in the film in silhouette claimed that President Clinton ordered several of his critics killed. Falwell never repudiated the film, though he later admitted ?I do not know the accuracy? of it. Some of the characters featured in the film became involved in the Paula Jones lawsuit that led to Clinton?s impeachment, though Falwell was not central to that story either.

The rise of the religious right was an important development in late-20th Century American history. Falwell?s name is among those associated with the movement. But just because someone is famous doesn?t make him significant. Jerry Falwell wasn?t.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18686440/site/newsweek/

[Gordon Gekko]

Though I don't care that he died, I wouldn't go so far as to say he deserved to die.  That's something he would say.  You know, like he did shortly after 9/11:

"God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve."

A lot of respect he showed for the dead right there, huh?

Yes. His deep religious feelings of tolerance and love were so valuable to this nation following 9-11 when he consoled us all by blaming God's Vengeance on the homosexuals and liberals for the disaster. My heart was warmed by his Christian compassion. It is sad to see him go. It's like losing a family member. I have not been this sad to see someone go since my mother-in-law moved out.

Edit: Saddam bad, very bad.

Edit 2: Osama bad, very bad.

[2NaFish]

a fear mongering hate filled little man who, if there is a God, is receiving a rather large pointy devil's fork up up ass as we speak.

may he rot forever more.

[Bodhi]

some pretty disturbing posts on here....not even in like a clever sort of way...strange to see the ever so tolerant left enjoy a persons death so much.....

[The Dog]

some pretty disturbing posts on here....not even in like a clever sort of way...strange to see the ever so tolerant left enjoy a persons death so much.....

Do the words "tolerant" and "Falwell" belong anywhere near each other?  Me thinks not.  I'm not enjoying his death, but I'm certainly not mourning it. 

I will literally be celebrating when Bush steps down as President though.  Will be a bigger party than the Millennium.

[freedom78]

I will literally be celebrating when Bush steps down as President though.

That's a pretty bold statement.

[TAP]

some pretty disturbing posts on here....not even in like a clever sort of way...strange to see the ever so tolerant left enjoy a persons death so much.....

He deserved no respect in life, and death shouldn't and doesn't change that. I'm glad he's gone and I don't care who that offends.

[CheapJon]

so who was this fucker?

[TAP]

Gotcha.  I certainly agree that there's some of that in there...after all, it's a religious text, so various rules of morality are bound to be included. 

There's nothing wrong with moral rules, I even agree with some in the bible Just not the attaching eternal damnation to breaking them. I really don't find any morality in religion which isn't self-evident. I'm pretty sure humans evolved to the point of realizing the advantages of  being good to each other, community etc long before organized religion. We just don't seem to have evolved past the point of promoting our own particular group/community/society/nation/religion to the detriment of others and probably never will without some dramatic earth changing event. And religion doesn't tend to help.

My complaint is that some, like Falwell, seem to focus so much on the negative, and use religion as a means to pursue a political agenda that would actively discriminate against certain individuals.  And that's a shame, because there's so many good messages that could redeem religion for a lot of people.  But some want to summarize it as a list of who's goin' ta Hell, so that we can let them know about it. 

I could be wrong but I suspect the motivation for Falwell and hi ilk is at least 95% political with religion tacked on as a big unknowable stick to threaten people. Such people with the same motivations but in less or non-religious societies would probably act in a similar way but with a different more earthly threat to back it up.

Consider the loonies who run www.godhatesfags.com.

Yeah, talk about a wonderful message.  Not only do they support the killing of homosexuals, but they're also pretty certain that Hurricane Katrina and the VT massacre are righteous signs from God. 

The BBC did a documentary on Phelps and his family. I haven't seen it but did read some of the details, and it was kind of weird. Besides Phelps who is obviously a total douche, the rest of his family came across as almost normal outside of the GHF activities, going as far to say they would have no problem working alongside someone openly gay. You can probably google the real details and even find it on youtube.

[freedom78]

Well, for all those in here "preaching" their hate of Jerry Falwell, you'll be happy to know you're not alone.  The fine folks at www.godhatesfags.com are with you!

http://www.godhatesfags.com/fliers/may2007/20070515_jerry-falwell-funeral.pdf


  Those fuckers hate everything! 

[TAP]

Too funny. 

[fuckin crazy]

He actually did a lot of good

You Sir , and I have a different definition of what is good .

[fuckin crazy]

strange to see the ever so tolerant left enjoy a persons death so much.....

There is nothing intolorant about the relief , that many feel , that this douche bag won't spewing his fowel rhetoric anymore .

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Howard Stern said today that Falwell is sucking Satan's dick in hell for eternity.  Stern is a bit extreme, but I don't see Falwell as a man of God as much as I think Falwell was in it for himself.

[The Dog]

I will literally be celebrating when Bush steps down as President though.

That's a pretty bold statement.

I think you misunderstood me...I don't think hes going to literally step down as in resign, i meant once his term is up. 

[freedom78]

I will literally be celebrating when Bush steps down as President though.

That's a pretty bold statement.

I think you misunderstood me...I don't think hes going to literally step down as in resign, i meant once his term is up. 

And you misunderstood me.  I was jokingly (I hope!) pointing out that it's a big assumption to say that he WILL leave office when his term is up. 

[The Dog]

I will literally be celebrating when Bush steps down as President though.

That's a pretty bold statement.

I think you misunderstood me...I don't think hes going to literally step down as in resign, i meant once his term is up. 

And you misunderstood me.  I was jokingly (I hope!) pointing out that it's a big assumption to say that he WILL leave office when his term is up. 

hahah, never thought of it that way.  Well, he is the decider right? So I guess its up to him if he wants to leave or not   Kinda like how Rudy thought he should be Mayor for longer then his term was.   

[SLCPUNK]

I think Hitchens summed it up well:

Hitch on Falwell