Students banned from Graduation because of the Confederate Flag

[SLCPUNK]

Kaufman said it's unfortunate that the boys' decision resulted in their exclusion from the graduation ceremony, but the ban on the Confederate flag isn't new. He said Kennedy High students know the flag is banned because it may violate anti-discrimination policies.

And there is the most important part of the article.

If there has been a longstanding ban, and they broke it (it sounds like knowingly, if it was a "prank"), 'dems the breaks.  The school is within it's rights to make rules like this. Period.  End of story.

Yes, but who do you think thought up these anti-discrimination policies? Probably a group of latte sipping elitists.

[Perfect Criminal]

Which Columbia? In Ybor?

Yes, Ybor City.  That was my second trip to Tampa.  I went previously to see GNR a couple of years ago.  I really like Tampa. 

[Thorned Rose]

Very dumb...

Where is the freedom we had years ago?

Get real people, you can pay 3.80 for a gallon of gas, but you can't wave a confederate flag on school grounds...

that's messed up beyond repair

[SLCPUNK]

Which Columbia? In Ybor?

Yes, Ybor City.  That was my second trip to Tampa.  I went previously to see GNR a couple of years ago.  I really like Tampa. 

Tampa is easy living.

Next time give me a call and I'll give you a tour round town.

Ybor is about 15 from my casa.

[Bandita]

Three Bloomington seniors barred from graduation over Confederate flag prank

Justin Thompson, 18, Joey Snyder, 17, and Dan Fredin, 18, were suspended from Bloomington Kennedy High School.

I don't think they should have been banned for waving a silly flag. But I do think they should be beheaded for posing in this pic like that 

This looks like an ad for "the future skinheads of America"

I don't mean to stereotype but if they wanted to convey a point they might have tried to look a bit more friendly?

In most instances in this country, school rules even supercede the law.

You really cannot take chances when students/children are involved so they tend to be a bit harsh in punishment.

These days when kids are going into schools and blowing their teachers and fellow students away because they were unhappy or depressed, can you really blame the school for inflicting the punishment they did???

[Booker Floyd]

They use the Malcolm X symbol.

What does one have to do with the other?

I have also seen blacks at Nascar events hanging out with rednecks what sport the flag having a blast.  Some blacks aren't nearly as sensitive as whites.

Another non-sequitur.

[D]

sometimes I wonder how much experience people on here have had with black people.

Its like they think every small thing will cause some huge uproar. everyone is so scared of being labeled a racist that they have to jump on and shun anything that could be construed as racist.


I dont think black people really care about someone having a rebel flag as long as they arent out screaming racial slurs etc.

things evolve in culture. the swatzika or however u spell it, wasnt always a symbol for nazi's or anti semitism but it is viewed that way now.

the Rebel flag started out being a sy mbol of the south's independence but now it has taken on a whole new meaning for people. Im sure some still view it as a racist symbol, but id guarantee most just view it as a symbol against the establishment.

[Axl4Prez2004]

sometimes I wonder how much experience people on here have had with black people.

Lots. 
...and the southern flag goes over about as well as a tv displaying continuously looped video of the white guy getting pulled out of his tractor trailer by an angry black mob and beaten during the LA riots.

It's not as bad as finding a noose, but it is just inappropriate.  Again, do we really want to go the "free speech" route and allow swastika-adorned children to school?  No. 

Hell, have all the southern states even apologized for the slavery years???  The Jim Crow years???  Oh yeah, that's right, many modern-day white southerners feel like, "I didn't put 'em into slavery, why should I apologize?"  Great logic.   
(and no D, I don't think you feel that way, it is one of the leading arguments against formal apologies though.)   

[polluxlm]

Why the fuck should innocent people apologize for the atrocities of their ancestors?

Black people aren't exactly angles either. Slavery, torture, murder...they have an affinity too. We all do.

No, free speech is just that, free. People should be able to say and wear whatever they want. However, expect to get your ass kicked when you walk into Harlem with the flag. Natural justice.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Why the fuck should innocent people apologize for the atrocities of their ancestors?

Black people aren't exactly angles either. Slavery, torture, murder...they have an affinity too. We all do.

No, free speech is just that, free. People should be able to say and wear whatever they want. However, expect to get your ass kicked when you walk into Harlem with the flag. Natural justice.

Because guess what, you know all about the power of interest.  Money collects interest.  How much money were white families accumulating through generation after generation of slavery and Jim Crow?  Now, how much money did the black communities accrue??
Hmmm, something tells me it has just a teency bit to do with financial inequities between blacks and whites we see today...ya think?
Are there poor white folk out there?  Hell yeah!  They are the ones that get most pissed when blacks complain about past transgressions of whites, because these white folks' ancestors didn't succeed like other whites.

Here's the other thing...it's a symbolic apology!  It brings people together!  It's understanding.  I never said "black people are angels"...every race, religion, nationality, etc., has its good, bad, and ugly. 

Now, here in the United States, I must have had different history professors, blacks were enslaving, torturing, and murdering whites?  Interesting.  Tell me more!

By the way, your idea for "natural justice," seriously, just imagine that system (or lack thereof) in place.  300 million vigilantes...what fun that would be. 

 

[polluxlm]

Apart from the very top there aren't any inordinate amount of money stashed in white families. How much did your parents inherit? Your grandparents?

No, the only advantage of white families are tradition and stability. You're more prone to make something of your life if your parents did it, but if they were drunks and drug addicts...well, I'm sure you follow. There's no trust fund accompanying the average white kid.

It would be symbolic alright. Just like affirmative action brought more racism, an apology will just bring a sense of guilt and superiority from the 'white masters' coming to make amends. If anything we should be proud of our abolition of slavery, not treat them like babies that can't take care of themselves.

Yeah, we didn't just go over there and took them, they were mostly given to us by African leaders. Africans have as much of a slavery history as Europe and America. In fact, America is just a tit on the map when it comes slavery. The rest of the world were far worse in their treatment of human beings. It didn't matter if they were white or black, if they could work they took them.

I'm not proposing a vigilante system, I'm just saying although something is legal doesn't mean you won't end up paying for it. Like it's not illegal to fuck the wife of a bodybuilder when he walks in. Still, you'll probably end up getting punished.   

 

[Perfect Criminal]

Which Columbia? In Ybor?

Yes, Ybor City.  That was my second trip to Tampa.  I went previously to see GNR a couple of years ago.  I really like Tampa. 

Tampa is easy living.

Next time give me a call and I'll give you a tour round town.

Ybor is about 15 from my casa.

Will do.  We will definately have to hook up if GNR comes back to Tampa.  Or my home town.  No politcs allowed. 

[Axl4Prez2004]

Apart from the very top there aren't any inordinate amount of money stashed in white families. How much did your parents inherit? Your grandparents?

Are you kidding me?  You of all people should know it's the ultra-rich who control the economy.  They provide the jobs.  Have you been out to the affluent areas?  Do you think every one of those families started out poor?  Some did, most didn't. 

Since you asked, on a personal note, my parents were divorced when I was 5.  Dad worked on the power lines.  He had a high school education as did my mom.  My mom worked a little as a cafetaria worker when they divorced, and then she got a job as a secretary in the county court.  Dad got away with screwing us out of support for my bro and me...I think we got $60/month in support growing up.  Mom was too proud to take him to court to get what we deserved and needed. 

Obviously, no money inherited here.  Grandparents?  Interesting you should ask.  Why?  My mom's parents were slaves for 6 years...refugees or "D.P.s" (displaced persons) for at least a year after...World War 2.  They came to America with nothing except for my mom as a toddler.  Prejudice was acquired quite early on...hmm, I wonder why?  Unskilled laborers fought for the same jobs...who were the bosses and foremen who hired the workers?  Whites.  Sorry, that's the game...and if the blacks got the work, it was for much less money, which obviously drove wages down and angered immigrant and non-immigrant whites alike.

[/color] [/glow]   
 

No, the only advantage of white families are tradition and stability. You're more prone to make something of your life if your parents did it, but if they were drunks and drug addicts...well, I'm sure you follow. There's no trust fund accompanying the average white kid.

I see where you are going with that but I think you're being incomplete in your analysis.  I love explaining to folks how about a century ago, the Irish immigrants were right there with the African-Americans at the bottom of the sociological barrel.  Many of the things still said about blacks today, "they are better athletes...they are more violent by nature...they are more susceptible to drugs/alcohol, they are animal-like and just pop out baby after baby, etc...." were said about the Irish then.  In a nation where color trumps common-sense oftentimes, it didn't take long for the Irish to figure out they could get jobs (as did other immigrants) over blacks. 

That said, the trust fund comment reminds me of smoking and lung cancer.  9 out of 10 smokers won't get lung cancer...but 9 out of 10 (roughly) folks who get lung cancer smoked.  That said, 9 out of 10 whites probably don't have a trust fund...but 9 out of every 10 trust funds would be in the hands of whites.

   


It would be symbolic alright. Just like affirmative action brought more racism, an apology will just bring a sense of guilt and superiority from the 'white masters' coming to make amends. If anything we should be proud of our abolition of slavery, not treat them like babies that can't take care of themselves.

Affirmative action brought m o r e racism???  Again, are you serious?  The Civil Rights movement and progressive programs associated with it were absolutely necessary to make an attempt at providing equal opportunity for all races, sexes, religions, etc.

   


Yeah, we didn't just go over there and took them, they were mostly given to us by African leaders. Africans have as much of a slavery history as Europe and America. In fact, America is just a tit on the map when it comes slavery. The rest of the world were far worse in their treatment of human beings. It didn't matter if they were white or black, if they could work they took them.

If you want to talk slavery, let's go at it.  It was a pretty big component in one of my majors in college.  Of course middlemen were used in collecting slaves.  Do you honestly think those middlemen helped Europeans (who had guns) willingly?  Some did to get rid of enemies, some did to save their own tribe's skin, etc.  Give me a break.  You're going to try and say Africans shoulder as much blame for the system of slavery as whites?  Every African-American who can trace his or her lineage back to the days of slavery (and that's a majority of blacks in America today) started with a disadvantage.  If slavery delayed the start of the race for them as a people, Jim Crow poured molasses on the track significantly slowing them down in the race to equality. 

Nobody is saying, "treat them like babies."  We're not talking handouts here.  We are talking equality in education, healthcare, and opportunity.  Hell, everyone posting at this site knows my version of food stamps is "enough to keep people from being starved or malnourished, nothing more, no frills, period." 
 

I'm not proposing a vigilante system, I'm just saying although something is legal doesn't mean you won't end up paying for it. Like it's not illegal to fuck the wife of a bodybuilder when he walks in. Still, you'll probably end up getting punished. 

I might not be able to beat up a body-builder, but in this country I can probably find a firearm that would do the trick.  Physical violence is so pre-firearms.     Again, it goes back to that scream of "Fire!" in a crowded theater.  You have a right to freedom of speech...to a point.  Do you honestly think these kids would have been in troouble if one of them wore a Lynard Skynard t-shirt with a small rebel flag on it?  or the General Lee?  Of course not.  It's a-holes like this who have to wave it in people's faces to get a reaction.

  

[TAP]

sometimes I wonder how much experience people on here have had with black people.

Its like they think every small thing will cause some huge uproar. everyone is so scared of being labeled a racist that they have to jump on and shun anything that could be construed as racist.


I dont think black people really care about someone having a rebel flag as long as they arent out screaming racial slurs etc.

I live in the heart of Brooklyn. Feel free to come over and wave a rebel flag in my neighbourhood, and then we'll get a good picture of how black people feel.

[TAP]

I don't get how this is a free speech issue. They weren't arrested, they didn't face any legal sanctions, they weren't even prevented from graduating. They were prevented from taking part in a ceremony - that's not a right, it's a privilege.

[D]

black people sold black people though............ thats the problem I have. everyone wants to blame the white guy but the black man isnt without fault either.


So explain once again how the confederate flag is anti black?   It just seems to me, people on here are mistakengly saying the civil war was all about slavery when it was not.

The confederate flag was the south's "American Flag" and u can view it two ways. U can view it as anti black *which i dont view it that way* or u can view it anti establishment. 

I tend to view it as antiestablishment.

I wouldnt personally wear a rebel flag or whatever, I agree they look rednecky etc BUT i think its wrong to automatically assume people who like it hate black people and chew tobacco etc.

I just feel everyone tries to apologize so hard to black people, that they dont hold the accountable for their own fuck ups and the fact they hold each other down now just as much if not more than the 'White Man"

21st century, there comes a time when u have to look in the mirror.

[SLCPUNK]

I don't get how this is a free speech issue.

It's not, and that has been pointed out a few times already. It has nothing to do with free speech or "hypocrisy".

[D]

this thread has taken a turn from the original topic.

If its against school rules, then yeah they are within all their rights to do what they did.

We have now switched this to something completely different.

Its now about the rebel flag and what it symbolizes.


I've heard arguments about Lincoln and that maybe his freeing the slaves wasnt necessarily out of the goodness of his heart or because of moral beliefs but simply to cripple the south.

Civil War started April 12th 1861, Emancipation Proclamation didnt pass till Jan 1863 or so.....

Slavery was an issue, but Tarriffs etc were a huge issue as well and the south being Richer than the north and the jealousies and problems that rise with that sort of thing.

to me the confederate flag isnt anti black. I dont think the Confederacy sit around and said "Lets think up a flag to be against black people"

That was a flag symbolizing a break from the North and what the South considered to be unfair practice.

[Axl4Prez2004]

"to me the confederate flag isnt anti black."

...well it sure as hell isn't pro!   

seriously, as a society, we sometimes have to be sensitive to perceptions.  whether white folks like it or not, a majority of african-americans perceive the southern flag as a representation of slavery.  My grandparents toiled for nothing as laborers for the German war machine.  If they rebelled, they along with my infant mom would be killed.  That swastika probably left a pretty bad taste in their mouths, as it does mine.  I don't think it should be flown, period.  Care to disagree?

btw, darn it, in the U.S.A., where we live, African-Americans were not buying and selling African-Americans as slaves.
So yeah, African-Americans were 100% victims.  The children of the slaves weren't even allowed to vote.  Do you think banks were lending money to blacks?  Do you think blacks were getting equal education??  Do you folks not see how a majority of the many problems faced by the black community today have been caused by centuries of sub-standard treatment on this continent?

By the way D, I'm no "apologist."  What I refuse to do however is close my eyes to the facts African-Americans don't start off on equal footing with whites in the game of life.  D, can you please explain why african-americans are given stiffer sentences for the same exact crimes compared to whites?  Can you explain to me why when the same crime is committed against a black person and a white person, on average the person who committed the crime against the black person gets a lighter sentence? 

 "21st century, there comes a time when u have to look in the mirror."  Yeah D, we all have to look in the mirror.  Nobody here is saying goodbye to personal responsibility.  Nobody's telling you to feel sorry for anybody.  What we can do as a society is acknowledge the horrible treatment african-americans have received throughout this nation's history and the road we still have to travel to get to equal opportunity.

"I dont think the Confederacy sit around and said "Lets think up a flag to be against black people."  They didn't have to D.  Their flag could have been a smiley-face emoticon and it still would have represented slavery almost 150 years later. 

Common sense should prevail with these kids.  Let them get their just punishment (whatever the school's policy is) and move on.  We'll just read about the next bunch of dumb-asses not allowed to attend their graduation ceremony...hopefully it'll be a group of obnoxious blacks blasting music laiden with the N-word to balance things out.
Yeah, that's a pet peeve of mine.   

[polluxlm]

Are you misunderstanding me? For the last year I've been talking about nothing but evil white men who control the world.

I'm talkin' about the average white person. He does not have any reason apologizing, ie. you, me and every other not bearing the name Rockefeller.

I'd say I know a thing or two about why non-whites are still being discriminated in what is popularly called the free world. Yes, wealthy white men are responsible. A select group basically runs the whole show. They share the same elitist perspective. They all have the money, hell they even print money. They spend it so they can control the education and science system, so they again can control the media, government and people. That's a long time ago.

Controlling the masses is easy, a fundamental part being racial stirrings. Since we're so naturally inclined, that part doesn't require much, other than unleashing our ignorance. 

That's all well and fine, but not really our topic at head.

I wasn't asking literally, so please, don't go personal. You can only enhance yourself in what you do, not in what you say.

The civil rights movement is a hijacked movement. Affirmative action does not help black people, quite on the contrary. While it rewards a minuscule few, it does nothing but further the sense of them being lesser humans to the not so fortunate, the ones living in drug infested neighborhoods, because they can't afford a 'white neighborhood'. Where the options are getting hooked on state imported crack, or wither away in a public 'school'. And for what? So they can work two shit jobs to pay the rent? No wonder so many turn to crime. That of course enhances our inherit view of them as something 'different', and the cycle just grows stronger. All along guided by the systems unwillingness or ability to enact effective and sensible measures.

I'm not excusing or downplaying anything. I merely pointed out that we all have an affinity for extreme behavior. There are no innocents, only equals. And until we start treating it that way, we will only continue to give the elite aid in the form of racial inequality.

This school had a ban on a fuckin' flag. "The flag is banned because it may violate anti-discrimination policies".
Once again they give the impression of black people being so fragile and helpless they need special protection.

And that's supposed to be the attitude in the school system? The place our children are shaped?

If some retards wants to be looked down upon, let them. Let them experience it for themselves. If anyone should feel offended by that they need a self esteem workout. A ban is just stupid, overprotective and probably the main reason this happened in the first place. Nothing motivates like forbidden fruit.