Tennis Thread - Official

[Ignatius]

Alright - Im gonna try this for the third time. I see there's not many tennis followers, but what the hell, we need an official thread!

Rafa Nadal won his quater finals match at Cincy yesterday agains Nicolas Lapenti from Ecuador. With that Win, he's clinched the number one spot in the ATP rankings putting an end to 230 + weeks of Roger FedEX reign.

Rafael Nadal is not showing number one in the rankings yet . However, due to the ATP ranking systems where players have to defend their points they've accumulated the previous year, here's the outcome of what could happen in the following weeks (I will just say one more time, Nadal is virtually the number one in the rankings).

If Nadal wins Cincy this sunday (he's gotta beat Djokovic first today in the semis, I have betted against RAFA though...Novak had great odds) he will inmediately be listed this monday as the number one in the rankings overtaking Roger Federer.

If Nadal wins tonight but loses the final, he will officially be listed as the number one tennis player on August 11th.

If Nadal loses tonight, he will officially be listed as the number one tennis player on August 18th.

Some of you may wonder..if he loses today or tomorrow, he won't be the number one yet...Well, that's not accurate. Some of you may be familiar with the ATP ranking points system. For those who are  not, players have to defend the points they've earned in 2007. Roger Federer won Cincy and was a runner up in Canada last year and that earned him 850 points. This year, he lost eary in both tournaments, so he's earned 200 points in both tournaments. Since he had to defend 850 points, he will LOSE (that means, those points will be deducted) those 650 points.

Also, since we got the olympics this year, both the Canadian and Cincy tournaments have been played sooner than last year. That's the reason why Federer will not see those 650 points been deducted of his ranking until 365 days have passed since those tournaments were played last year.  That is On August 11th (the Canadian) and August 18th (Cincy).

To sum up, either this weekend or within the next two weeks, You will see RAFA NADAL FIRST here http://www.atptennis.com/1/en/home/ It's just a matter of time when within these two weeks. Either way, RAFA has deserved this spot for long time now. This is the culmination of what's of his best season, having won:

Roland Garros - Clay
Wimbledon - Grass
ATP series Montecarlo - Clay
ATP series Hamburg - Clay
ATP Series Toronto - Hard Court
Barcelona  - Clay
Queens (London) - Grass.


This will also put to an end all the nonsense comments about Nadal beeing just a clay court player!

Congrats NADAL

Man, I do love my tennis....

[Axl4Prez2004]

Nadal earned it that's for sure.  I said it before I'll say it again...best tennis match I've ever seen.  Both Federer and Nadal seem like class acts.  It was nice to see Nadal get that monkey off his back!

All right, it's a tennis thread.  I'm obligated to mention her name, Maria Sharapova. 

[D]

Good, now maybe people will hush with the Federer is the greatest of all time shit.

[Gnrfan]

Good, now maybe people will hush with the Federer is the greatest of all time shit.

Well you can see why surely.

5 wimbledons in a row.... every grand slam final for 2 years (until oz open 08)..... longest consecutive no1 ever (and by some way) .... winner of 3 of the 4 grandslams all more than once..... 46 weeks behind all time no1 record...... 3rd in all time titles list (i think thats right)

and the way he plays he can keep going for a while. as Nadal's game will take a toll on his body. Persoanlly i think Sampras is still the yardstick but i think Fed is in that group of two or three right behind.

I love tennis and i think the next year will be great watching but its a different pressure for Nadal now. and a different feeling for Federer and lets not rule out Djokovic or even Murray who despite being ranked 6th is clearly the 4th best player in the world now.

[D]

Dont get me wrong, he is a fantastic GREAT player, I just feel he has benefited greatly by playing in an era of not a lot of other great players.

Who will be remembered from his era other than he and Nadal?

Sampras played in a golden renaissance age of tennis where there were tons of top competition and future hall of famers.

[Gnrfan]

Dont get me wrong, he is a fantastic GREAT player, I just feel he has benefited greatly by playing in an era of not a lot of other great players.

Who will be remembered from his era other than he and Nadal?

Sampras played in a golden renaissance age of tennis where there were tons of top competition and future hall of famers.

Well keep in mind Fed played in Sampras's later days. and really Sampras only had Courier and Agassi... and Agassi disapeared for 2 years. I mean players like Muster and Safin  only took over when Sampras was injured towards the end.

The problem is with this argument its all relative to how good the No.1 is. I mean say Sampras really was the best ever (like all the best played in the same era) players like Fed and Nadal might not have made the top 5.... who knows.

All i know is that Fed, Nadal, Djokovic & Murray at this moment in time are very strong. all have victories over the others in that group. I can't think of a time where Sampras had 3 players that could beat him right behind him. And then throw into the mix players like Ancic, Gasquet, Davydenko, Safin, Hewitt, Moya, Nalbandian, Bagdathis & Roddick, who on their day can beat anyone and with youngsters like Gulbis coming through i think Mens Tennis is deep with quality.

The question of who is the best ever is one that cannot be answered because people will always argue quality of opposition but Federer is 76 weeks ahead of Jimmy Connors for consecutive weeks at No1 and is exactly 50 weeks behind Sampras as weeks at No1 in total so for me they go down as the two best in the modern era with players like Agassi, McEnroe, Laver, Borg, Conners & Lendl in the group behind.

I think if Federer ever managed to win the French open or overtake Sampras's weeks at No1 or win 3 more grand Slams then i think he would become the undisputed "best ever".

It will now be interesting to see how far Nadal goes with No1. with the US open round the corner can Nadal win a Grand Slam on hard courts with the likes of Fed, Djokovic and Murray... who are seen as better on that surface.

[Ignatius]

I do agree to some of the things you are saying.

Tennis these days it's way more competitive than it was 10 years ago when Sampras ruled. However, to some americans this may not be true as Tennis was really hot 10-15 years ago with the Agassi - Sampras rivalry sparked by the Nike Commercials and Agassi's antics in and off the court. As you say, That rivalry was on and off since Andre was never really consistent in the rankings. He would have an awesome year and he'd be playing challenger tournaments the next to get ranked again. Sampras had not really a consistent rival other than Andre and (every now and then) Jim Courier. Players like Bruguera, Muster, Stich, Becker, Krajicek, Chang, Moya, Kuerten, Rafter...never really had a change against Pete. He'd beat them all time after time.

Hewitt and Safin did cause some damage, but that was while Pete's late, very late days as a tennis professional.


I have also said before Sampras is the number one in my book of all time. He never won the french, but he dominated the sport just like FedEX's done with all players but NADAL. Both Roger and Pete will go along the all time greats for sure, but if Roger wins the French, he will undoubtely be the greatest player ever.


Today, we do have some amazing players that constanly beat each other. Djokovic has beaten NADAL 4 times (Nadal's got him 9 though) and FEDEX, Nadal's beaten Roger, Roger's beaten Nadal. The top 3 players have won pretty much every single GS and MS tournament in the past 3 years. You also have Davidenko, Ferrer, Roddick, Nalbandian (the most talented player by far on the tour but likes to eat hamburgers instead of playing tennis) those can beat the top three in any given day. Im glad Murray is now there with the big boys...although I dont see him as strong mentally as the other three and...I dont see him better than  NADAL in any surface (hard court included). Murray has never BEATEN Nadal in HARD COURT (or any court for that matter) so I have to disagree with your last statement. He's not better than RAFA.

Nadal was tired last week. He had won 32 matches in a row (5 tournaments) and lost to an incredible Djokovic in the semis. When Nadal is fit, he can beat anyone, anytime.

Nadal is the strongest player on tour right now, in any kind of surface. Nadal won the Canadian open two weeks ago, RG and two other tournaments on clay, and Wimbledon (and queens) on grass. He's the number one in the world.

I'm looking forward the olympics and the US open. The only thing that concerns me about NADAL is his physical condition. That's the problem with him year aftter year. 80% of his tournament wins always come before Wimbledon, then he's just too tired to mantain the same intensity. It's hard to see him going down a few gears, but that's the way it is. I wish he could dominate every tournament like he did in Wimbledon. We'll see what happens this year.

[Gnrfan]

Players like Bruguera, Muster, Stich, Becker, Krajicek, Chang, Moya, Kuerten, Rafter...never really had a change against Pete. He'd beat them all time after time.

But all of them were either at the end of their career or not good enough to seriously challenge Sampras. Moya was great on clay as was kuerten but their games never had consistency on other surfaces.

I have also said before Sampras is the number one in my book of all time. He never won the french, but he dominated the sport just like FedEX's done with all players but NADAL. Both Roger and Pete will go along the all time greats for sure, but if Roger wins the French, he will undoubtely be the greatest player ever.

Well aside from the clay before Wimbledon Federer had been doing ok against Nadal. It just so happened that most of their meeting were on clay.

I agree that Sampras is the yardstick unless Federer wins the French or beats Sampras's No1 record or Grand slam record.

Im glad Murray is now there with the big boys...although I dont see him as strong mentally as the other three and...I dont see him better than  NADAL in any surface (hard court included). Murray has never BEATEN Nadal in HARD COURT (or any court for that matter) so I have to disagree with your last statement. He's not better than RAFA.

I honestly think he is the 4th best on tour at present. I also think he is mentally stronger than Djokovic. Murray can just read his game so well and it got to the point where Djokovic was hitting all or nothing shots against Murray. . . that was because he had no answer on the day to what Murray was doing to him.

Also matches like Wimbledon against Gasquet shows he has mental strength i think 2 sets down and the crowd was flat he manages to come from nowhere and make Gasquet look distinctly average.

I think thats murrays greatest asset... he can change game plans better than anyone on tour. I thnk Rafa is brilliant but he plays one way and if that doesn't work then i believe he is in trouble. Thats what happened against Djokovic last week

I think Murray still has a long way to go but i believe he can beat Rafa although he hasn't yet. He had his chances last time they played but didn't take them.

Nadal was tired last week. He had won 32 matches in a row (5 tournaments) and lost to an incredible Djokovic in the semis. When Nadal is fit, he can beat anyone, anytime.

yeah but he had a rest after wimbledon. and despite a long winning streak i think he got beaten by the better man. I think Nadal's style will take more out of him than other players styles but i don't think he'd use tiredness as an excuse. I mean Fed went 2 and half years in the final of every Grandslam and getting to advanced stages of 99% of tournaments. I think thats a bit of a cop out.

Nadal is the strongest player on tour right now, in any kind of surface. Nadal won the Canadian open two weeks ago, RG and two other tournaments on clay, and Wimbledon (and queens) on grass. He's the number one in the world.

Correct he has been a pleasure to watch recently. Although i'm not convinced he is the best on hard court still. I guess the US Open will give us some indication. I still think he is probally 3rd behind Fed and Djokovic on Hard courts.

He deserves to be No1. Federer has not been himself since the Australian Open IMO and Nadal has been red hot. But i honestly believe that if Federer can get the belief back he might be No1 again this year.

I'm looking forward the olympics and the US open. The only thing that concerns me about NADAL is his physical condition. That's the problem with him year aftter year. 80% of his tournament wins always come before Wimbledon, then he's just too tired to mantain the same intensity. It's hard to see him going down a few gears, but that's the way it is. I wish he could dominate every tournament like he did in Wimbledon. We'll see what happens this year.

Like i said his style does that to him. its aggressive, hard hitting and intense. Compare that to federer or Murray and they look lazy in comparison but its kinda like the Tiger Woods thing.... his style is what makes him great but it may take 3 or 4 years off his career and even more worrying might allow him less time at the top.

The US Open is gonna be great.... Nadal, Djokovic, Fed and Murray all have a chance IMO. I'd love to see a Murray vs Federer Final persoanlly. But a Murray vs Nadal & Djokovic vs Fed Semis.... that would be sweet.

Although its so soon after the Olympics can one man win both? gonna be tough i think.

[Ignatius]

Well aside from the clay before Wimbledon Federer had been doing ok against Nadal. It just so happened that most of their meeting were on clay.

Nadal's beaten Federer twice if I recall on hard courts; Miami and Dubai. Federer has beatn Nadal three times on HC; Twice on the Masters CUP and a 5 setter in Miami. The very first  match this two played took place in Miami and Rafa won that, the second one, a year later, Rafa was two sets up and just two points away from victory in the third, Fedex fought back to win the title in 5. Roger has had problems with Rafa from day one, regardless the surface.

I honestly think he is the 4th best on tour at present. I also think he is mentally stronger than Djokovic. Murray can just read his game so well and it got to the point where Djokovic was hitting all or nothing shots against Murray. . . that was because he had no answer on the day to what Murray was doing to him.

Also matches like Wimbledon against Gasquet shows he has mental strength i think 2 sets down and the crowd was flat he manages to come from nowhere and make Gasquet look distinctly average.

I think thats murrays greatest asset... he can change game plans better than anyone on tour. I thnk Rafa is brilliant but he plays one way and if that doesn't work then i believe he is in trouble. Thats what happened against Djokovic last week

I think Murray still has a long way to go but i believe he can beat Rafa although he hasn't yet. He had his chances last time they played but didn't take them.

No way Murray is stronger than Djokovic. Just look at the two players single titles comparission. They both pretty much hit it big at the same time; early 2007, but Murray didnt really achieve anything until this year. He was injured for a while - I give you that - but the Djoker has been a constant presence in the late rounds in every big tournament for almost two years now. He does know how to win the important points. Murray, on the other hand, faces enormous amount of trouble when he's down in a match.

If you take a look at his body language everytime he loses a few games is a real clue of whats going on in his mind. Take a look a RAFA for instance, he doesnt show emotions and the guy always displays the same body language whether he is down 5-0 against the Djoker or 6-1, 5-0 against Serra. You can't really tell.

Murray, on the other hand...well, if you saw him against Rafa in Wimbledon, the guy had no chance. In his mind, he had already been defeated when Rafa broke him the first time. He did beat Gasquet in the quaters coming from 2 sets to love defecit, but for him, playing Wimbledon is like playing the Davis CUP. It's a lot easier when 20,000 people are cheering for ya.

Last sunday, against Novak, he did what he had to do for the first time to beat a better player. Novak had beaten him each and every time till the Canadian Semi finals (on this note, Djokovic killed Murray in the Queens semis...) simply cause his game plan was sightly different on those ocassions. Against Murray, the Djoker just went for it from game one, collecting a shit load of winners but also God knows how many unforce errors. Against Nadal, Djoker was flawless, everything he hit was a winner, against Murray, he average 2-3 UE's per game!

Dont get me wrong, Murray is a good player, probably a top 5 potential this year, but I've seen nothing from him other than winning Cincy. I really hope he now joins the exclusive top 3 club in which time after time, its players hit the semis in pretty much each and every tournament.

I do still see moments in the match where he just looks totally lost. In the Cincy quaters agains Carlos Moya, he was totally outclassed in the first set. He did though got his shit together and pulled it off in the end, but had he faced the likes of Fedex, Nadal, DAvidenko, that day..he'd probably lost.

yeah but he had a rest after wimbledon. and despite a long winning streak i think he got beaten by the better man. I think Nadal's style will take more out of him than other players styles but i don't think he'd use tiredness as an excuse. I mean Fed went 2 and half years in the final of every Grandslam and getting to advanced stages of 99% of tournaments. I think thats a bit of a cop out.

Rested? Nadal has played 6 tournaments in a 75 day span - two of them were GS's. Fedex has never, ever played those many matches in such a short time, not too mention, has had a winning streak that long in 3 different surfaces. Nadal needed rest, after wimbledon, he only rested for over a week and had to pack up his bags again to Canada. Where he won by the way. Fedex has won a lot of GS and MS, but not in a consecutive manner just like Nadal has. RG and Wimbledon are only two weeks apart and ROGER has never achieved that.

Correct he has been a pleasure to watch recently. Although i'm not convinced he is the best on hard court still. I guess the US Open will give us some indication. I still think he is probally 3rd behind Fed and Djokovic on Hard courts.

There's not really an indication of who's the best HC player. It's all subject to opinion really. However, this year, Nadal has collected more points than anyone in HC's (Djoker may have a 100 point or so advantage since he won the AO) so it's not far fetched to think Nadal is the best HC player there is.

He deserves to be No1. Federer has not been himself since the Australian Open IMO and Nadal has been red hot. But i honestly believe that if Federer can get the belief back he might be No1 again this year.

I believe FedEX glory days are a thing of the past. He may win one or two more GS's but I dont think he will ever win the french unfortunately. I wish he could get it though so he would be labeled as the greatest of all time,...but Nadal's got him good, Wimbledon was the last straw.

Like i said his style does that to him. its aggressive, hard hitting and intense. Compare that to federer or Murray and they look lazy in comparison but its kinda like the Tiger Woods thing.... his style is what makes him great but it may take 3 or 4 years off his career and even more worrying might allow him less time at the top.

Could be, yeah. But Nadal's biggest asset is his willingness to learn and adapt himself so he can become a better player. He's improved his backhand a lot and serve, he does need to gear it up some more though. When he does that, he will get a lot of more free points on serve so he will not have to fight for each and every point as he does now. He desperatly needs a big serve that can get him out of trouble when he's facing Breack points.

[Gnrfan]

Nadal's beaten Federer twice if I recall on hard courts; Miami and Dubai. Federer has beatn Nadal three times on HC; Twice on the Masters CUP and a 5 setter in Miami. The very first  match this two played took place in Miami and Rafa won that, the second one, a year later, Rafa was two sets up and just two points away from victory in the third, Fedex fought back to win the title in 5. Roger has had problems with Rafa from day one, regardless the surface.

Yeah he has problems but he still beats him in big matches. Masters Cups and Wimbledons. I know Rafa won Wimbledon this year but that 5th set could have gone either way.

No way Murray is stronger than Djokovic. Just look at the two players single titles comparission. They both pretty much hit it big at the same time; early 2007, but Murray didnt really achieve anything until this year. He was injured for a while - I give you that - but the Djoker has been a constant presence in the late rounds in every big tournament for almost two years now. He does know how to win the important points. Murray, on the other hand, faces enormous amount of trouble when he's down in a match.

Well he has beat him the last two time they have played and quite comfortably too. I know he has lost to him before but this is a new Murray, a fitter more dedicated player. He reads Djokovics game better than anyone and you get the impression he enjoys playing against him. I'm not aying he's a better player i'm just saying that his game seem harder for Djokovic to break down that others including nadal.

As far as Murray having trouble when he's down... i dont think that the case anymore. He was behind in matches against Moya, Querrey, Gasquet and Karlovic all within the last month and has powered back. Like i said he is a different player than that of this time last year. Is he gonna win GS..... probally not but if there is one who could break that top 3 on hard courts its Him at the moment.

If you take a look at his body language everytime he loses a few games is a real clue of whats going on in his mind. Take a look a RAFA for instance, he doesnt show emotions and the guy always displays the same body language whether he is down 5-0 against the Djoker or 6-1, 5-0 against Serra. You can't really tell.

Murray, on the other hand...well, if you saw him against Rafa in Wimbledon, the guy had no chance. In his mind, he had already been defeated when Rafa broke him the first time. He did beat Gasquet in the quaters coming from 2 sets to love defecit, but for him, playing Wimbledon is like playing the Davis CUP. It's a lot easier when 20,000 people are cheering for ya.

Maybe but those fans can work against you too at 2 sets down. The pressure is more than a non british player and there is always so much hype around him in England. I agree that sometimes his body langauage is bad but he is getting better every match he plays.

The Match with Rafa was bad but only because Rafa was so good. he would have beaten anyone that day. That was the most impressive i have seen Nadal on grass. But every other time they have played it hasn't been a walkover for Nadal and i'm sure that Murray wants to beat Nadal more than anyone on tour right now and he isn't someone you want gunning for you.

I do still see moments in the match where he just looks totally lost. In the Cincy quaters agains Carlos Moya, he was totally outclassed in the first set. He did though got his shit together and pulled it off in the end, but had he faced the likes of Fedex, Nadal, DAvidenko, that day..he'd probably lost.

Every player has moments when they are lost... Nadal's 1st set against Djokovic he just keep looking to his box almost with the look of what do i do.

But thats what i'm saying about murray his best asset is his ability to change his game when its not working. I watched that match and as good as Moya was in the 1st Murray was better in the 2nd and Moya knew he'd lost halfway through the 3rd and gave up. Thats the sort of turn around Murray can produce.

Rested? Nadal has played 6 tournaments in a 75 day span - two of them were GS's. Fedex has never, ever played those many matches in such a short time, not too mention, has had a winning streak that long in 3 different surfaces. Nadal needed rest, after wimbledon, he only rested for over a week and had to pack up his bags again to Canada. Where he won by the way. Fedex has won a lot of GS and MS, but not in a consecutive manner just like Nadal has. RG and Wimbledon are only two weeks apart and ROGER has never achieved that.

But its not like Fed plays less matches at the French. he just loses in the final. and maybe he doesn't play as many but he still played alot when he was in his prime. I just dont think its a excuse for a young player who is as fit as Nadal, he just got beat by a better man on the day.

I believe FedEX glory days are a thing of the past. He may win one or two more GS's but I dont think he will ever win the french unfortunately. I wish he could get it though so he would be labeled as the greatest of all time,...but Nadal's got him good, Wimbledon was the last straw.

I'd never back against Federer.... Never! i'd love to see him win the US Open. It would dispell rumours of his demise. Although Nadal must be the favourite. I wouldn't mind betting on a federer final appearence.

ould be, yeah. But Nadal's biggest asset is his willingness to learn and adapt himself so he can become a better player. He's improved his backhand a lot and serve, he does need to gear it up some more though. When he does that, he will get a lot of more free points on serve so he will not have to fight for each and every point as he does now. He desperatly needs a big serve that can get him out of trouble when he's facing Breack points.

You see, i'm not sure he can change the way he plays like Federer and Murray have done. That high top spin he uses is so effective but if it doesn't work i am yet to see a plan b from him. He needs to develop it if he is gonna stay No1 for a considerable period.

[Ignatius]

Well he has beat him the last two time they have played and quite comfortably too. I know he has lost to him before but this is a new Murray, a fitter more dedicated player. He reads Djokovics game better than anyone and you get the impression he enjoys playing against him. I'm not aying he's a better player i'm just saying that his game seem harder for Djokovic to break down that others including nadal.

I don't think 3 tie breakers out of 4 sets is quite comfortably. I watched both matches and for me, Nadal's win over Murray in Canada looked more confortable than Murray's wins over Djoker.

I do love though when Murray beats Novak cause I just don't like him (Djokovic). It's a mixed feeling of fear he may be the biggest thread Nadal will have for the next 5 years to come and just disliking somebody.

Every player has moments when they are lost... Nadal's 1st set against Djokovic he just keep looking to his box almost with the look of what do i do.

Agreed, but some players are more likely to get lost thorughout a match than others, and Murray is (or was until a few months ago) one of them.

But thats what i'm saying about murray his best asset is his ability to change his game when its not working. I watched that match and as good as Moya was in the 1st Murray was better in the 2nd and Moya knew he'd lost halfway through the 3rd and gave up. Thats the sort of turn around Murray can produce.

It all came down to the 3rd game of the second set. Moya was 2-0 already and had a few break points. If I remember correctly, Murray served like 4 lets and managed to save those break points and won his service game by luck. From then onwards, Moya obviously lost his serve (that always happens) and Murray gained confidence and won the match. This was a nice comeback, but it did happen against a player who's ranked 40th in the world and 11 years older than him. We'll see what happens when he faces a similar situation against a Rafa, Roger or Novak.

You see, i'm not sure he can change the way he plays like Federer and Murray have done. That high top spin he uses is so effective but if it doesn't work i am yet to see a plan b from him. He needs to develop it if he is gonna stay No1 for a considerable period.

Of course he does, it doesnt all evolve that top spin forehand. Nadal has improved his cross court backhand to the extreme that in Wimbledon he really played with two forehands. Also the flat forehand down the line when he takes the ball up above is also an asset.

---

I just dont see Murray beating Nadal soon, for two obvious reasons.

1.- Mindset. Murray has lost 5 times to Nadal. That, whether you like it or not, adds more pressure on the losing player than the winner. Nadal feels more comfortable playing him cause he's always beaten Murray, whereas with Novak, he's lost 4 times against him, so the mindset is different as he doesnt see himself as a clear favorite (specially on hard courts).

2.- Style. Murray is not the kind of player that can really put a threat in Nadal. Rafa, struggles the most against the heavy hitters who happen to have their best day; look at Tsonga, Blake, Youzhny, Djokovic...all those players have beaten Nadal on their best day. And Nadal didnt really have his day when those loses came along. I see Murray as more of a moonballer than a heavy, agressive tennis player. He's got a good all around game, but Nadal doesnt really feel threaten (yet) by it.

I guess only time will tell, but for me, the only really threat to Nadal is Novak Djokovic and Nadal's slump in the second part of each and every season.

[Ignatius]

Ok I don't think anyone will really give a shit about this other than AxlPrez, D and GNRfan, but here's the Olympics draw!!


SINGLES
(1) Federer - Tursunov
Lee - Arevalo
Robredo - Seppi
Berdych - (14) Karlovic

(10) Simon - Soderling
Niemeyer - Ca?as
Bellucci - Hrbaty
Guccione - ( Blake

(4) Davydenko - Gulbis
Mathieu - Lapentti
Loglo - Anderson
Mirnyi - (15) Kiefer

(12) Gonzalez - Darcis
Cilic - Monaco
O. Rochus - Minar
Tipsarevic - (5) Ferrer

(7) Nalbandian - Zeng
Massu - Darcis
Bolelli - Hanescu
Monfils - (11) Almagro

(13) Youzhny - Vanek
Nieminen - T. Johansson
Schuettler - Nishikori
Ginepri - (3) Djokovic

(6) Murray - Lu
Calleri - Ljubicic
Daniel - Melzer
Dancevic - (9) Wawrinka

(16) Stepanek - Llodra
Querrey - Andreev
Hewitt - Bjorkman
Starace - (2) Nadal


Ok, if anything goes as should - which I think it will not since tennis in the olympics has never been logical -

Nadal would meet Murray in the quaters, the winner would probably play Nalbandial or Djokovic. Nalbandian could be the guy to watch..he's done nothing so far this year so I reckon the possibility of winning gold will be a motivator.


Again, easier draw for Federer, his only threat is Karlovic really...Lucky him Nadal, Murray and the Djoker are on the other side of the draw.

[Gnrfan]

I don't think 3 tie breakers out of 4 sets is quite comfortably. I watched both matches and for me, Nadal's win over Murray in Canada looked more confortable than Murray's wins over Djoker.

But he never looked like getting broken and put alot of pressure on Novak's serve throughout the match. Murray gets closer to Nadal everytime. and i see they could be meeting in the quarters of the Olympics. Could be a cracker if they can both get that far.

Agreed, but some players are more likely to get lost thorughout a match than others, and Murray is (or was until a few months ago) one of them.

was i think i correct. He has matured brilliantly this year and has won 3 tournaments, admittedly not all big ones but still its and improvement.

It all came down to the 3rd game of the second set. Moya was 2-0 already and had a few break points. If I remember correctly, Murray served like 4 lets and managed to save those break points and won his service game by luck. From then onwards, Moya obviously lost his serve (that always happens) and Murray gained confidence and won the match. This was a nice comeback, but it did happen against a player who's ranked 40th in the world and 11 years older than him. We'll see what happens when he faces a similar situation against a Rafa, Roger or Novak.

True but my point was that a year ago his head would have dropped and probally would have lost in two. He has a fantastic mentality considering i think technically he is behind quite a few players on tour and i think that belief and temprement is a reason that he has done so well this year.

Of course he does, it doesnt all evolve that top spin forehand. Nadal has improved his cross court backhand to the extreme that in Wimbledon he really played with two forehands. Also the flat forehand down the line when he takes the ball up above is also an asset.

I don't see it. Sorry. compared to other who mix up their game alot more with variety in their rallys.... Nadal goes with what serves him best 90% of the time. and dont get me wrong it seems to work. But when he is struggling it seems to take him 2 or 3 games to understand whats working and whats not and that can cost him from time to time. I think Federer and Murray figure it out a bit quicker.... whether or not the change in tactic works i'm not sure but i just think Nadal could use more flat shots from time to time to add variety to his game.

1.- Mindset. Murray has lost 5 times to Nadal. That, whether you like it or not, adds more pressure on the losing player than the winner. Nadal feels more comfortable playing him cause he's always beaten Murray, whereas with Novak, he's lost 4 times against him, so the mindset is different as he doesnt see himself as a clear favorite (specially on hard courts).

But i'm telling you that 3 of the 5 won't even affect Murray. he is a different player now. The Wimbledon match was just sheer brilliance from Nadal and the other one a few weeks ago was tight. I think Murray had some break points which he wasted but thats all it takes as you well know. We all know Nadal is gonna beat 99.9% of people if he is playing at the top of his game, but what i'm saying is.... if Nadal is off by just 5% Murray is probally one of 4 or 5 who could beat him. and i think will by this time next year.

2.- Style. Murray is not the kind of player that can really put a threat in Nadal. Rafa, struggles the most against the heavy hitters who happen to have their best day; look at Tsonga, Blake, Youzhny, Djokovic...all those players have beaten Nadal on their best day. And Nadal didnt really have his day when those loses came along. I see Murray as more of a moonballer than a heavy, agressive tennis player. He's got a good all around game, but Nadal doesnt really feel threaten (yet) by it.

I agree. I was in Oz when Tsonga played really well to beat Nadal and i agree that Nadal's style is not great to Murray but i think Murray is one of the most intelligent players on tour and i think he will find a way sooner rather than later.

SINGLES
(1) Federer - Tursunov
Lee - Arevalo
Robredo - Seppi
Berdych - (14) Karlovic

(10) Simon - Soderling
Niemeyer - Ca?as
Bellucci - Hrbaty
Guccione - ( Blake

(4) Davydenko - Gulbis
Mathieu - Lapentti
Loglo - Anderson
Mirnyi - (15) Kiefer

(12) Gonzalez - Darcis
Cilic - Monaco
O. Rochus - Minar
Tipsarevic - (5) Ferrer

(7) Nalbandian - Zeng
Massu - Darcis
Bolelli - Hanescu
Monfils - (11) Almagro

(13) Youzhny - Vanek
Nieminen - T. Johansson
Schuettler - Nishikori
Ginepri - (3) Djokovic

(6) Murray - Lu
Calleri - Ljubicic
Daniel - Melzer
Dancevic - (9) Wawrinka

(16) Stepanek - Llodra
Querrey - Andreev
Hewitt - Bjorkman
Starace - (2) Nadal

I spot upset potential with Ginepri vs Djokovic and Gulbis vs DavyDenko.

------------------

Good to have a Tennis thead good job Ignatius 

[GNRreunioneventually]

fairies

[Ignatius]

I don't see it. Sorry. compared to other who mix up their game alot more with variety in their rallys.... Nadal goes with what serves him best 90% of the time. and dont get me wrong it seems to work. But when he is struggling it seems to take him 2 or 3 games to understand whats working and whats not and that can cost him from time to time. I think Federer and Murray figure it out a bit quicker.... whether or not the change in tactic works i'm not sure but i just think Nadal could use more flat shots from time to time to add variety to his game.

Well, We disagree. Nadal not only has the skills, but also he's capable of changing tactics if the "normal" doesnt go as planned. Against Gasquet in Toronto, Richard got the rythm with the backhand and hit 14 winners with that shot in 5 games or something. Nadal, was able to see that and changed the direction of all his shots to Gasquet's forehand. The result? 6-2, 6-1 second and third sets.

Against Djokovic in Hamburg, same thing. Nadal has a tendency to hit that top spin forehand into his rival's backhand since it normally is the weaker shot. With Djoker, it doesnt realy work  cause he takes two handed backhand very early so he doesnt have to hit it over his shoulder. Nadal, varied his game more onto Novak's forehand and he was able to come back on that set and won it.

Also is the slice backhand..he's developed that shot since Wimbledon 07. He uses that a lot to change the tempo and the rythm of the point. The ball lacks power, but it's deep and doesnt bounce hight.

About Federer, let me tell you why he's losing so much this year. Fedex has (or used to have) the best all around game; that is serve, volley, forehand, backhand..the gyuy has so many weapons in his arsenal it's very tough to beat. However, next time you see Roger playing, notice how he's lately relying on his ripping forehand these days. Notice how he will move three-four meters to the left so he can rip the forehand each and every time.  This is not the way Roger played from 2004-2007. I se his confidence has come down some and you can really tell by his erratic backhand and the lesser points he wins at the net.  Federer's game lately has become very, very predictable.

I spot upset potential with Ginepri vs Djokovic and Gulbis vs DavyDenko.

Gulbis...he's way to inconsistent. One day he can beat Blake and the next day he loses over Jose Acasuso. Too young yet.

I really hope Ginepri gets the Djoker in trouble.

[Hammy]

Ok I don't think anyone will really give a shit about this other than AxlPrez, D and GNRfan, but here's the Olympics draw!!

Well actually I'm a big fan to, I'm just more of a lurker than poster in these threads.  As a kid I always love watching Wimbledon each year, but since the outset of this year I've started watching every event I can and I really enjoy it.

Nalbandian could be the guy to watch..he's done nothing so far this year so I reckon the possibility of winning gold will be a motivator.

Whenever I've seem him play, many of his matches seem to range from excellent to awful.  There's been a number of his matches where he'll get crushed in a set 6-0 and then suddenly wake up and turn things up a gear then he seemingly goes on vacation again, shame cos he's one of my favourite players.

On the Andy Murray subject, the guy has always seemed, visually at the very least, someone who struggles when he gets behind, he has the oh no I'm losing I might as well give up look, to put it another way, he wears his heart on his sleeve, but he shows his emotions too much.  As for these comebacks people have cited.  Moya and Gasquet as far as I saw choked (As Ig. said, see what happens if he gets behind against the top caliber guys).  True he made some fantastic shots, but that was after they'd intially handed him a lifeline by double faulting and messing up....

[St_Jimmyuk]

Murry put in a very poor performance this morning (UK TIME) at the Olympics I was very disappointed he seems to either play very well or very averagely bad never a ok performance.

[Gnrfan]

Murry put in a very poor performance this morning (UK TIME) at the Olympics I was very disappointed he seems to either play very well or very averagely bad never a ok performance.

yeah tell me about it. The indication seems to be that he wasn't taking it very seriously with the US open coming soon. But if thats true why not pull out all together. And certainly dont play in doubles too.

[D]

I dont know who the more heartless player is between Andy Roddick or Andy Murray


I bet on a Tennis Parlay and Guess who I fucked up and took and lost with? Andy Murray

[Ignatius]

yeah tell me about it. The indication seems to be that he wasn't taking it very seriously with the US open coming soon. But if thats true why not pull out all together. And certainly dont play in doubles too.

I don't think it was that. All players want to win the Gold medal, the motivation is there for Roger, Rafa, Novak and even Murray. I blame it on the calendar really. It's crazy. These players are playing matches week in and week out travelling thousands of miles and obviously you can expect results like this.

Also, the conditions there are tough. Very hot and humid, I'd assume players like Novak or Murray would have more problems to deal with such conditions...

I dont know who the more heartless player is between Andy Roddick or Andy Murray


I bet on a Tennis Parlay and Guess who I fucked up and took and lost with? Andy Murray

Ouch!

I wouldn't do that D, not in the olympics.

If you want to gamble a bit, wait till the US open where results would be a bit more "normal".  The olympics is like tossing a coin really., the odds for the big players are not that good and you can always expect a few loses...I knew there were going to be huge upsets early in the first rounds and that's proven to be truth; Murray and Ferrer out.

I'm gambling some in Leg masson tournament in Washing DC. Better odds and strategy seems to work!