Street Team/Gnr status update

[pilferk]

"i think your comments are ridiculous.

- axl has already screwed the label
- the song selection is a matter of opinion (i think the selection does maximize sales....it's a "commercial" list)
- i could argue catalog sales will increase since more people will be turned on to gnr
- CD being delayed is 100% axl's call
- i'm a fan and i have the choice NOT to buy CD

the ball is in axl's court.
it has always been in axl's court.
and it always will be in axl's court.

if and when CD comes out, and how gnr fans get treated is totally up to him."


I'm sure you do think they're ridiculous, since they contradict your stated position.  Be that as it may, let's take each point:

"axl has screwed the label"
Proof?  Fact is, nobody knows what the contract with the label says.  The Fact is, if GnR had violated the contract in any way, the label would have sued them.  Fact is, if the contract is so incredibly biased toward GnR that it allows this kind of procrastination, then that's the labels fault.  They signed the contract and knew what they were getting into.  The label has not been screwed by GnR, or, at least, no evidence of that "screwing" is around.

"- the song selection is a matter of opinion (i think the selection does maximize sales....it's a "commercial" list)"

True enough.  But it's a selection of songs that Axl, seeminly, doesn't approve of.  As for the reduced royalty rate that the album will generate, well, there's no real denying that.

- i could argue catalog sales will increase since more people will be turned on to gnr
 
You could, but then you'd look at RIAA data, and realize that in many cases, when a GH album is released, the sales of the back catalog covered by the GH album tends to lag.  Could GnR's GH album be different (like Nirvana's)? Sure it could.  But it's just as likely that it won't.

- CD being delayed is 100% axl's call

Hmmm, maybe, maybe not.  Again, we're not party to the legal wranglings going on.  It could be Axl's call, it could be Sanctuary's call, or it could be their legal teams call.  Minute distinctions, true, but important ones all the same.  Also, con't dicoun the labels influence in the delay.  Since I know they're smart people, they must have had a pretty good idea, given what happened last time that they tried to release GH, that releasing GH now could very well delay CD.

- i'm a fan and i have the choice NOT to buy CD

You sure do.  On that, we certainly agree.

Since this thread has quickly degenerated into a conversation between the two of us..how about we take it to PM's?  I'm sure we're boring the hell out of the rest of the posters!

[madagas]

Sandman, I think you are forgetting one critical factor in the Axl/Geffen relationship-Axl (and the band Gnr) made Geffen millions upon millions upon millions of dollars. Axl did not reap the rewards of his work NEARLY as much as Geffen benefited. So, saying Axl screwed the label is ridiculous.Even considering the costs of the Chinese Debacle recording sessions, Geffen clearly has made a ton of money on the band. Axl is going to deliver an album and probably two from these sessions. In my opinion, Axl has every right to play hardball. They simply are releasing a shitty representation of a GREAT band. I really hope they work it out quickly.

[RnT]

Official update is ; Guns n'roses are still together and will be touring from late May

WHY this sentence makes me nervous EVERY TIME ?  

Probably because ClearChannel promoted the American leg of the tour and we all know how that turned out and although Clear Channel sucks, they are the big promoters for most/all concerts.

Great news if GNR tour again.....but who will promote them?  

I mean the word STILL  

"Guns n'roses are still together"

looks like they could separate tomorrow...  

[starchild_666]

yeah now GH is reason for delaying CD... what will be the next reason Axl will find? toothache?

[Death Cube K]

You talk a lot of sense Pilferk. Couldnt have said it better myself.

[AxlN'Slash]

NO headache......his dreads are pulling his head to tight

[grog mug]

I guess this means we'll have to play the waiting game even longer before they decide what to do with CD.  This sucks.  They need to go ahead and release GH, and put the rest of their promotion into Chinese Democracy.  Does this mean that Chinese Democracy could be scrapped? Please say it ain't so!

[younggunner]

So the band are still together. Together meaning the current members still receive their monthly paychecks?

Please show me an official account of where these current members of gnr are getting paid for their services or have gotten paid.

Its a fukin myth. The peopel who have gotten paid are the people that have come and gone. Navarro, May, sunshine etc. Bucket, tommy, robin, brain,pittman,fortus and dizzy might have initially gotten paid in the very beginning but i truly doubt they are getting paid now. Theya re a fukin band. Most of you fail to reconize that they are also very good friends. Best friends? Prob not, i cant say, im not there but there are good friends from thier accounts. They arent fukin hired guns. Finck has been in this band since 97. He is the heart and soul. He cares about gnr as anyone.  The rest of the band has been around since 98-2000...

These guys didnt create this band or create its legacy but that is the past. WHat is in the present and the future is their efforts in gnr. They are a band. Not the convential way in terms of starting out but have grown as a band. Unless you show me factual proof that they have been getting paid over the years then shut the fuck up about that stuff. Im not saying i know for a fact they dont get paid, but they are a band and until proven otherwise im not gonna believe they do.

[lastroots]

I'm sure they get paid. Why should being good friends or being a real band be a reason not to get paid? I'm friends with my publisher. And also he pays for my work (I'd have a problem if he wouldn't...)

/lastroots

[Lesty]

\

Its a fukin myth. The peopel who have gotten paid are the people that have come and gone. Navarro, May, sunshine etc. Bucket, tommy, robin, brain,pittman,fortus and dizzy might have initially gotten paid in the very beginning but i truly doubt they are getting paid now. Theya re a fukin band.

Umm,...I think we can relax. I don't think anyone is losing sleep over who is getting paid.. I don't think anyone really knows the pay schedule of GnR, and why would we? GnR is Axl Rose. Period. The new guys all probably have individual contracts. I wouldn't think they're official members of the band. Yes, they may be a band but I assume they get paid a weekly salary, or they get paid when Axl has them on retainer.
I would be lying if I knew how they would get paid if an album were to come out. Besides obviously getting publishing $$ if they helped write certain songs, I wouldn't think they would get a piece of the pie from album sales. That would all go to Axl, who owns the names GnR and is GnR.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

Fact is, nobody knows what the contract with the label says.  The Fact is, if GnR had violated the contract in any way, the label would have sued them.  Fact is, if the contract is so incredibly biased toward GnR that it allows this kind of procrastination, then that's the labels fault.  They signed the contract and knew what they were getting into...

Very good point(s)!

and it is pertinent for us fans to note, as you stated that Axl/GN'R and thier management team are ultimately are the only ones who can act to protect the interest of the band.  Axl has been through a lot of shit so that WE could have a fuckin' band...  I think we should support our band.

[starchild_666]

I think Axl pays them big money to keep this 'project' together...

[sandman]

pilferk - i see your point about the contracts. i haven't considered that fact much because no one knows what's in the contract.

(i would assume that if it was that cut and dry, the label wouldn't risk getting sued by axl, but that's just me).

but even if we assume that axl has a legal right to stop or sue them....i still don't see how this guarantees a delay in CD being released.

it just seems like everyone is making so many assumptions.

and i can't feel bad for the guy when he's taken sooooo long already. finish the album and turn it over!!

[pilferk]

pilferk - i see your point about the contracts. i haven't considered that fact much because no one knows what's in the contract.

(i would assume that if it was that cut and dry, the label wouldn't risk getting sued by axl, but that's just me).

but even if we assume that axl has a legal right to stop or sue them....i still don't see how this guarantees a delay in CD being released.

it just seems like everyone is making so many assumptions.

and i can't feel bad for the guy when he's taken sooooo long already. finish the album and turn it over!!

Last comment on the boring stuff, I promise!!

Contracts are often not as "cut and dry" as people think they are.  Different lawyers, different judges, etc will interpret the contractual language (which, I can assure you, reads like very boring foreign stereo instructions) very differently.  The label probably, if it is some sort of contractual dispute, really believes they have the legal right to do what they're doing (and have a bastion of lawyers who believe the same).  Axl probably honestly believes the opposite, and has another bastion of lawyers who are like minded.  That's where the delays crop up...arguing breech of contract would mean that the material would become part of any settlement, and NEITHER side could release it (as in publish it..Axl could play the whole CD live every night if he so desired) until the case was decided.

Again, lots of assumptions there, I agree.  What it all boils down to is no one knows what the fuck is really going on....

[axl_rose_700]

pilferk - i see your point about the contracts. i haven't considered that fact much because no one knows what's in the contract.

(i would assume that if it was that cut and dry, the label wouldn't risk getting sued by axl, but that's just me).

but even if we assume that axl has a legal right to stop or sue them....i still don't see how this guarantees a delay in CD being released.

it just seems like everyone is making so many assumptions.

and i can't feel bad for the guy when he's taken sooooo long already. finish the album and turn it over!!

from what mysteron has said, it sounds like he has turned it over

[madagas]

700, I believe it is more likely that the album is done. However, Axl and Sanctuary will not turn the final mix over to Geffen until the GH dispute is settled.

[NickNasty]

If they tour w/out performing anything new, they will NEVER get any interest by any promoter for another US tour after the last debacle. OTOH, maybe IF they end up touring, Axl will have some kind of rant against the label...
I still have my doubts he shows at RIR.

[mentalradio]

How does all this Greatest Hits stuff impact Velvet Revolver? If they are trying to make their own mark in music, shouldn't they be just as upset as 'GnR' appear to be over the release of this album? Or, am I just barking up a wrong tree?  

[Ignatius]

Unless you show me factual proof that they have been getting paid over the years then shut the fuck up about that stuff.

So elocuent... Shouldn't you be in your High School debate class?

Ok kid, No, I don't carry a copy of their paychecks around with me all the time , but when you hire somebody, you pay him/her ( you even mentioned they were " hired guns") Do you think Tommy, BH, Robin are doing this for the GNR cause? Would you say they were paid just once years ago when they joined the band but haven't receive anything after that?

As for their " friendship", where is the factual proff you were talking about earlier that they are really friends? on Stage? It does look like Axl's relationship with the hired guns is basically a working relationship. Not friends, not comrade...speaking of comrades, wasn't that meant to be the tilte of the upcoming album by VR? see, they, on the other hand, seem to have a friendship bond.

[DemocracyRose]

Official update is ; Guns n'roses are still together and will be touring from late May

Thank Mysteron...