Chinese Democracy (Album) - Charting

[jarmo]

The chart is based solely on sales (both at retail and digitally) in the United States. The sales tracking week begins on Monday and ends on Sunday. A new chart is published the following Thursday with an issue date of the following Saturday.

So the Billboard numbers include iTunes sales.

Not just Best Buy.




/jarmo

[Layflats]

The chart is based solely on sales (both at retail and digitally) in the United States. The sales tracking week begins on Monday and ends on Sunday. A new chart is published the following Thursday with an issue date of the following Saturday.

So the Billboard numbers include iTunes sales.

Not just Best Buy.




/jarmo

I think it's two different animals....


In late 2004, the RIAA announced that it would extend its Gold and Platinum awards designation to legitimate digital downloads from the Internet. This Digital Sales program bestows Gold certification at 100,000 downloads, Platinum at 200,000, and Multi-Platinum status beginning at 400,000. The initial honors went to 45 titles from a variety of musical genres and recognized every major recording company. In 2006, the organization went one step further and authorized the launch of a Master Ringtone Sales Award, acknowledging original recordings of artists' hits as played on cellphones.

[GypsySoul]

There's one thing that confuses me about Best Buy.

Assuming the exclusivity deal ends after some months, we'll be able to see the album in more stores and buy it online at places like Amazon.com.

Isn't this the window where Best Buy should be trying to capitalize on their exclusivity and promote the album more aggressively?

It makes less sense to promote it once it's on Amazon, at Target, Walmart and every other store that sells records.....

My concerns with BestBuy is more on the legality side of this "promotions" thing and hope the GNR legal peoples got GNR's ass covered.

Like if BestBuy did actually buy 3 million copies upfront and there is some kinda "suggested assumption" in that contract that the band would be doing things to promote the album and, in effect, promote BestBuy, then when the 'exclusive' deal ends, couldn't BestBuy sue for breach-of-contract to recoop the upfront costs plus?

But since we have no idea how these contracts (especially the 'fine print') read, I guess the opposite could be true also ... that after the exclusive deal ends, GNR could sue BestBuy for lack of in-store and media promotions.

The industry is weird.  You have the RIAA which is what issues Gold, Platinum status which is built on shipped units minus returns (why the no return policy clause was genius).  They you have Nielsen Sound Scan which builds the numbers you see on Billboard and the like, which has no direct effect on how the RIAA issues Gold and Platinum albums.

Again assuming that BestBuy did actually buy 3 million copies upfront, wouldn't those numbers be considered "shipped units"? 

[LunsJail]

The industry is weird.  You have the RIAA which is what issues Gold, Platinum status which is built on shipped units minus returns (why the no return policy clause was genius).  They you have Nielsen Sound Scan which builds the numbers you see on Billboard and the like, which has no direct effect on how the RIAA issues Gold and Platinum albums.

It's also my understanding that it's up to the record company to apply to the RIAA for gold and platinum status.  So they could do that at any time with CD since the appropriate units have shipped.  Wouldn't that be good publicity?  A press release - "Chinese Democracy certified platinum"

Are you listening to me, Mr. Jimmy Iovine?

[Verse Chorus Verse]

Can I ask why it is of any importance to people here how many copies this new album sells?

Do you want the members of the band, and the record company, to make lots of money?

Do you want the album to be popular because that will somehow make you feel better about your love of the album?

Do you have thoughts along the lines of "If only people can hear this album, they'll fall in love with it"?


I'm asking because I don't understand.

Because if there truly is a trilogy of albums, the sales could be the deciding factor in the rest of the trilogy seeing daylight.

[Leddy]

There's one thing that confuses me about Best Buy.

Assuming the exclusivity deal ends after some months, we'll be able to see the album in more stores and buy it online at places like Amazon.com.

Isn't this the window where Best Buy should be trying to capitalize on their exclusivity and promote the album more aggressively?

It makes less sense to promote it once it's on Amazon, at Target, Walmart and every other store that sells records.....





/jarmo

I?m inclined to agree.  There is only one scenario I can imagine where BestBuy comes out of this ahead...

If they have indeed bought 1.3m units at $9, that?s a commitment of $11.7m.  Considering the sales figures of 500,000 and taking out a (very generous), 100,000 for iTunes sales, that leaves 400,000 sales @ $11.99 = $4,796,000 leaving a balance of $6,904,000.  BestBuy may have market data that suggest each purchaser visiting BestBuy spends an average of $20.  Taking out of the equation the $11.99 that they spend on the CD, that?s $8.01 x 400,000 = $3,204,000 at an average of 15% margin that could equate to $480,600 additional gross profit.

This means to date that they have made back $5,276,000 from an investment of $11,700,000.  Leaving a balance of $6,424,000 owing to 800,000 unsold CD?s ? or a new cost price of $8.03 per unit.

They then could be taking the long term view that these remaining units will eventually all sell, even at a reduced price of $8.99, giving a total gross profit on the deal of $768,000 + the additional profit of those 800,000 purchasers additional purchases (which at an average $20 ? $8.99 x 15% x 800,000 ) which could yield an additional $1,321,200 gross profit.  Therefore the total gross profit to BestBuy for the GNR deal could potentially be $2,089,200.  You would also have to factor in costs already incurred for marketing and promotion, floor-space etc to get a net profit figure.

[italysfinest1985]

There's one thing that confuses me about Best Buy.

Assuming the exclusivity deal ends after some months, we'll be able to see the album in more stores and buy it online at places like Amazon.com.

Isn't this the window where Best Buy should be trying to capitalize on their exclusivity and promote the album more aggressively?

It makes less sense to promote it once it's on Amazon, at Target, Walmart and every other store that sells records.....





/jarmo

I?m inclined to agree.  There is only one scenario I can imagine where BestBuy comes out of this ahead...

If they have indeed bought 1.3m units at $9, that?s a commitment of $11.7m.  Considering the sales figures of 500,000 and taking out a (very generous), 100,000 for iTunes sales, that leaves 400,000 sales @ $11.99 = $4,796,000 leaving a balance of $6,904,000.  BestBuy may have market data that suggest each purchaser visiting BestBuy spends an average of $20.  Taking out of the equation the $11.99 that they spend on the CD, that?s $8.01 x 400,000 = $3,204,000 at an average of 15% margin that could equate to $480,600 additional gross profit.

This means to date that they have made back $5,276,000 from an investment of $11,700,000.  Leaving a balance of $6,424,000 owing to 800,000 unsold CD?s ? or a new cost price of $8.03 per unit.

They then could be taking the long term view that these remaining units will eventually all sell, even at a reduced price of $8.99, giving a total gross profit on the deal of $768,000 + the additional profit of those 800,000 purchasers additional purchases (which at an average $20 ? $8.99 x 15% x 800,000 ) which could yield an additional $1,321,200 gross profit.  Therefore the total gross profit to BestBuy for the GNR deal could potentially be $2,857,200.  You would also have to factor in costs already incurred for marketing and promotion, floor-space etc to get a net profit figure.

Impressive analysis.

[jarmo]

Oh yes. Maybe Best Buy sold some TVs, video games, Hancock DVDs and toasters thanks to GN'R....




/jarmo

[Leddy]

There's one thing that confuses me about Best Buy.

Assuming the exclusivity deal ends after some months, we'll be able to see the album in more stores and buy it online at places like Amazon.com.

Isn't this the window where Best Buy should be trying to capitalize on their exclusivity and promote the album more aggressively?

It makes less sense to promote it once it's on Amazon, at Target, Walmart and every other store that sells records.....





/jarmo

I?m inclined to agree.  There is only one scenario I can imagine where BestBuy comes out of this ahead...

If they have indeed bought 1.3m units at $9, that?s a commitment of $11.7m.  Considering the sales figures of 500,000 and taking out a (very generous), 100,000 for iTunes sales, that leaves 400,000 sales @ $11.99 = $4,796,000 leaving a balance of $6,904,000.  BestBuy may have market data that suggest each purchaser visiting BestBuy spends an average of $20.  Taking out of the equation the $11.99 that they spend on the CD, that?s $8.01 x 400,000 = $3,204,000 at an average of 15% margin that could equate to $480,600 additional gross profit.

This means to date that they have made back $5,276,000 from an investment of $11,700,000.  Leaving a balance of $6,424,000 owing to 800,000 unsold CD?s ? or a new cost price of $8.03 per unit.

They then could be taking the long term view that these remaining units will eventually all sell, even at a reduced price of $8.99, giving a total gross profit on the deal of $768,000 + the additional profit of those 800,000 purchasers additional purchases (which at an average $20 ? $8.99 x 15% x 800,000 ) which could yield an additional $1,321,200 gross profit.  Therefore the total gross profit to BestBuy for the GNR deal could potentially be $2,857,200.  You would also have to factor in costs already incurred for marketing and promotion, floor-space etc to get a net profit figure.

Impressive analysis.

Thanks, but it's important to note that there are assumptions in there about their market analysis etc - that could be miles off!

It's just an example of how BestBuy could be seeing the deal into profitability.

[Leddy]

Oh yes. Maybe Best Buy sold some TVs, video games, Hancock DVDs and toasters thanks to GN'R....




/jarmo

Anything is possible.  I went to the supermarket yesterday for some bin liners, spent ?50 and realised when I got home I hadn't bought the bloody things 

[Layflats]

This may have been posted already, but this is just so badass...

While "Chinese Democracy" has failed to catch on with radio stations, Mr. Rose's record company is betting on a heavy rotation of another sort to boost sales. Two cuts from the album were included in "StripJoints," a CD compilation packaged with Exotic Dancer magazine that went out to 2,500 sexually oriented clubs.

"It's always nice to present music to people when they're having a good time," said Bob Chiappardi, chief executive of Concrete Marketing, which was hired for the strip-club promotion. "It's all about association."

It's also interesting people noting how AFD didn't do as much until Sweet Child was put into rotation on radio and MTV, then BOOM.  My favorite example (being a hick from Indiana) is Blind Melon's debut.  It was practically unknown until they made video with a little girl in a bee costume for a sappy song called "No Rain", then BOOM.  Anything can happen, the US buying public is fickle. Good, bad, great musically is irrelevant, it's what "in" that counts.

[jarmo]

Anything is possible.  I went to the supermarket yesterday for some bin liners, spent ?50 and realised when I got home I hadn't bought the bloody things 

Did you go back and come home with stuff worth an additional ?50?  




I think this album will be selling quite nicely for a long time.

There's so many possible singles on it....




/jarmo

[adman2374]

Anything is possible.  I went to the supermarket yesterday for some bin liners, spent ?50 and realised when I got home I hadn't bought the bloody things 

Did you go back and come home with stuff worth an additional ?50?  




I think this album will be selling quite nicely for a long time.

There's so many possible singles on it....




/jarmo

For my tastes, this is the best record that has ever been created. As for the mass/single market out there, I don't see many singles. Singles I see- "the blues," "Riad", and "Madagascar."

[Continental Drift]

There's one thing that confuses me about Best Buy.

Assuming the exclusivity deal ends after some months, we'll be able to see the album in more stores and buy it online at places like Amazon.com.

Isn't this the window where Best Buy should be trying to capitalize on their exclusivity and promote the album more aggressively?

It makes less sense to promote it once it's on Amazon, at Target, Walmart and every other store that sells records.....





/jarmo

I?m inclined to agree.  There is only one scenario I can imagine where BestBuy comes out of this ahead...

If they have indeed bought 1.3m units at $9, that?s a commitment of $11.7m.  Considering the sales figures of 500,000 and taking out a (very generous), 100,000 for iTunes sales, that leaves 400,000 sales @ $11.99 = $4,796,000 leaving a balance of $6,904,000.  BestBuy may have market data that suggest each purchaser visiting BestBuy spends an average of $20.  Taking out of the equation the $11.99 that they spend on the CD, that?s $8.01 x 400,000 = $3,204,000 at an average of 15% margin that could equate to $480,600 additional gross profit.

This means to date that they have made back $5,276,000 from an investment of $11,700,000.  Leaving a balance of $6,424,000 owing to 800,000 unsold CD?s ? or a new cost price of $8.03 per unit.

They then could be taking the long term view that these remaining units will eventually all sell, even at a reduced price of $8.99, giving a total gross profit on the deal of $768,000 + the additional profit of those 800,000 purchasers additional purchases (which at an average $20 ? $8.99 x 15% x 800,000 ) which could yield an additional $1,321,200 gross profit.  Therefore the total gross profit to BestBuy for the GNR deal could potentially be $2,089,200.  You would also have to factor in costs already incurred for marketing and promotion, floor-space etc to get a net profit figure.

Very good analysis indeed. I think the only thing that doesn't make sense to me is the whole idea of a "dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow" concept (b/c you can re-invest the earlier dollar for an even greater return). That would argue against a long-term view and instead trying to move as many units as soon as possible IMHO- particularly during the course of their exclusivity period. Who knows what Best Buy's up to though... they probably don't even know.

Good read.

[suicide]

I think this album will be selling quite nicely for a long time.

There's so many possible singles on it....

/jarmo

True, there are many possible singles on CD but that only matters if the fuckin' radio stations play them, which they don't, not here in fuckin' Belgium anyways. Heard Chinese Democracy a few times but never heard Better. And I guess most fans already bought the album so singles (and videos) should convince new fans to buy the album but if they never get a chance to hear or see them... it's a shame.

[Continental Drift]

The industry is weird.  You have the RIAA which is what issues Gold, Platinum status which is built on shipped units minus returns (why the no return policy clause was genius).  They you have Nielsen Sound Scan which builds the numbers you see on Billboard and the like, which has no direct effect on how the RIAA issues Gold and Platinum albums.

It's also my understanding that it's up to the record company to apply to the RIAA for gold and platinum status.  So they could do that at any time with CD since the appropriate units have shipped.  Wouldn't that be good publicity?  A press release - "Chinese Democracy certified platinum"

Are you listening to me, Mr. Jimmy Iovine?

Good point. It may be in their interests though to apply for the platinum certification when the sound scan/download numbers move closer to the 1,000,000 mark- otherwise they may draw unfavorable attention to the band... i.e. "Chinese Democracy was certified platinum today for 'selling" 1,000,000 copies.... 400,000 of those are already available for 're-sale' at your local Best Buy. HAHAHA.".

That said- I don't see why they wouldn't want to apply for the gold certification at this point though... That could give a nice little "post-holiday" boost IMHO.

[ppbebe]

I think this album will be selling quite nicely for a long time.

There's so many possible singles on it....

/jarmo

True, there are many possible singles on CD but that only matters if the fuckin' radio stations play them, which they don't, not here in fuckin' Belgium anyways. Heard Chinese Democracy a few times but never heard Better.

for a start, how about requesting the song like hell? 

[Leddy]

Anything is possible.  I went to the supermarket yesterday for some bin liners, spent ?50 and realised when I got home I hadn't bought the bloody things 

Did you go back and come home with stuff worth an additional ?50?  




I think this album will be selling quite nicely for a long time.

There's so many possible singles on it....




/jarmo

Ha - No!  I did however buy some larger refuse sacks and milk!  

I agree that it will have staying power, that could be helped by video(s) and further singles.  Axl has already said that there are interviews intentionally lined up for later on, which can only increase awareness and peak interest.

I personally think the biggest boost it could see would be any potential tour.  I didn't pick up Death Magnetic, as I am a casual Metallica fan, until a friend got us tickets to see them in March.  I was then interested to see what the new music they may play sounds like.  I'm sure that will be the case for many of the 100,000's of people that see them on tour.  

When put into perspective, the sales of the album have been very impressive considering the promotion and exclusivity of the route to market.  You can't draw comparisons to what any other band has done previously or currently - GNR's situation, and the situation surrounding the record are unique - that's why we love 'em 

[oldgunsfan]

There's one thing that confuses me about Best Buy.

Assuming the exclusivity deal ends after some months, we'll be able to see the album in more stores and buy it online at places like Amazon.com.

Isn't this the window where Best Buy should be trying to capitalize on their exclusivity and promote the album more aggressively?

It makes less sense to promote it once it's on Amazon, at Target, Walmart and every other store that sells records.....

/jarmo

that's what you would think

[oldgunsfan]

This may have been posted already, but this is just so badass...

While "Chinese Democracy" has failed to catch on with radio stations, Mr. Rose's record company is betting on a heavy rotation of another sort to boost sales. Two cuts from the album were included in "StripJoints," a CD compilation packaged with Exotic Dancer magazine that went out to 2,500 sexually oriented clubs.

"It's always nice to present music to people when they're having a good time," said Bob Chiappardi, chief executive of Concrete Marketing, which was hired for the strip-club promotion. "It's all about association."

It's also interesting people noting how AFD didn't do as much until Sweet Child was put into rotation on radio and MTV, then BOOM.  My favorite example (being a hick from Indiana) is Blind Melon's debut.  It was practically unknown until they made video with a little girl in a bee costume for a sappy song called "No Rain", then BOOM.  Anything can happen, the US buying public is fickle. Good, bad, great musically is irrelevant, it's what "in" that counts.

wonder what's in the strip club compilation-

from my experience strippers realy dig GnR