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Author Topic: What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?  (Read 151860 times)
peter7411226
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« Reply #360 on: June 25, 2009, 11:35:20 AM »

That is very true. You have to like what the artist is about and what he/they stand for.
The artists that I seem to be fond of are the artists that sing about the real truth. Many people can't stomach the truth and those are the ones who probably would hate artists like G&R; Bob Dylan; Neil Young...etc.
Many people dismiss Axl because they can't face the truth about themselves.
You know I can understand why many people will dismiss Chinese Democracy because it is indeed a rebellious-truthful cd that may be over their heads!!!!  hihi
Well that's o.k. There are many artists on the charts right now for those minds who are into non-mind-thinking / non-prolific thinking.
Chinese Democracy still rules!!! It is the mature-A.T. for destruction cd for this era.  beer

And what is the truth? Please enlighten us. In my opinion it comes down to the music. I can respect an artist for who he is and what he stands for. It doesnt necesarily mean that I have to like everything they put out. Loved Chris Cornell in Soundgarden but think everything he's done since is crap. I still respect him as an artist though.
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« Reply #361 on: June 25, 2009, 11:41:10 AM »

That is very true. You have to like what the artist is about and what he/they stand for.
The artists that I seem to be fond of are the artists that sing about the real truth. Many people can't stomach the truth and those are the ones who probably would hate artists like G&R; Bob Dylan; Neil Young...etc.
Many people dismiss Axl because they can't face the truth about themselves.
You know I can understand why many people will dismiss Chinese Democracy because it is indeed a rebellious-truthful cd that may be over their heads!!!!  hihi
Well that's o.k. There are many artists on the charts right now for those minds who are into non-mind-thinking / non-prolific thinking.
Chinese Democracy still rules!!! It is the mature-A.T. for destruction cd for this era.  beer

And what is the truth? Please enlighten us. In my opinion it comes down to the music. I can respect an artist for who he is and what he stands for. It doesnt necesarily mean that I have to like everything they put out. Loved Chris Cornell in Soundgarden but think everything he's done since is crap. I still respect him as an artist though.

People like Axl and Bob Dylan are rebels that went their own way and they are and were 100% true to what they are and never compromised their music or sold out, ever. They went their own way even when the fans didn't like it. That's the truth we are talking about.
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peter7411226
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« Reply #362 on: June 25, 2009, 12:05:09 PM »

That is very true. You have to like what the artist is about and what he/they stand for.
The artists that I seem to be fond of are the artists that sing about the real truth. Many people can't stomach the truth and those are the ones who probably would hate artists like G&R; Bob Dylan; Neil Young...etc.
Many people dismiss Axl because they can't face the truth about themselves.
You know I can understand why many people will dismiss Chinese Democracy because it is indeed a rebellious-truthful cd that may be over their heads!!!!  hihi
Well that's o.k. There are many artists on the charts right now for those minds who are into non-mind-thinking / non-prolific thinking.
Chinese Democracy still rules!!! It is the mature-A.T. for destruction cd for this era.  beer

And what is the truth? Please enlighten us. In my opinion it comes down to the music. I can respect an artist for who he is and what he stands for. It doesnt necesarily mean that I have to like everything they put out. Loved Chris Cornell in Soundgarden but think everything he's done since is crap. I still respect him as an artist though.

People like Axl and Bob Dylan are rebels that went their own way and they are and were 100% true to what they are and never compromised their music or sold out, ever. They went their own way even when the fans didn't like it. That's the truth we are talking about.

As someone who is in the industry let me tell you that in one way or another we all sell out. There is a big difference between Dylan and Axl though. Dylan has always been willing to play the promotion game. He constantly tours behind his albums. While he rarely gives interviews he does tour a hell of alot. He also puts out albums pretty consistently. Im a huge Dylan fan and havent always liked his work. Doesnt make me any less of a fan though. Love his new stuff by the way. The one key thing that people tend to forget is that this is a business. If a label puts money into a project shouldnt you be responsible for helping to promote it? Its good to be a rebel and to have integrity and to never compromise your music but you have to realize that when you sign with a label you have certain responsibilities.
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« Reply #363 on: June 25, 2009, 12:23:41 PM »

Well yes an artist should promote their material. And I'm sure Axl wanted to do this. But if the promoters are going to give him the short end of the stick, well than they should get nothing.
I admire Axl standing up to them. To me they are a bunch of pencil pushers anyway. All they want is to exploit an artist and make millions of dollars off of them. Axl has already been through all that. So has Bob Dylan. And believe me Bob gets his way with the promoters. Why do you think most of the super groups today are refraining from touring?
Once again if you are starting out and you just got signed than yes you are going to have to basically lick the bottom of their shoes------at least for a while until you can start calling the shots.
Look at Led Zep. Peter Grant (Zeps manager) said once: "We will rent the places to play and told the promoters you will only get 10%. The rest of the money will go to Zepp. 10% of Led Zep is better than 0% of Zepp." You know what, the promoters swallowed their money-forked tongues and agreed!!! rofl
So Axl is only looking out for his survival in the music business and I can respect that. When you command a God given talent that is GREAT, than you can command the shots. He doesn't have to roll over and play dog for them anymore.
As far as the record company putting out money for the LP I'm sure somewhere within that deal they have already recouped the money according to the contract that was drawn for Chinese Democracy.  smoking
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« Reply #364 on: June 25, 2009, 12:29:05 PM »

lack of promotion.

i also wasnt blown away by this album
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« Reply #365 on: June 25, 2009, 12:37:08 PM »

i also wasnt blown away by this album

Not enough crazy lixx? Not loud 'n' nasty enough?

 hihi



/jarmo
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« Reply #366 on: June 25, 2009, 12:46:43 PM »

Well yes an artist should promote their material. And I'm sure Axl wanted to do this. But if the promoters are going to give him the short end of the stick, well than they should get nothing.
I admire Axl standing up to them. To me they are a bunch of pencil pushers anyway. All they want is to exploit an artist and make millions of dollars off of them. Axl has already been through all that. So has Bob Dylan. And believe me Bob gets his way with the promoters. Why do you think most of the super groups today are refraining from touring?
Once again if you are starting out and you just got signed than yes you are going to have to basically lick the bottom of their shoes------at least for a while until you can start calling the shots.
Look at Led Zep. Peter Grant (Zeps manager) said once: "We will rent the places to play and told the promoters you will only get 10%. The rest of the money will go to Zepp. 10% of Led Zep is better than 0% of Zepp." You know what, the promoters swallowed their money-forked tongues and agreed!!! rofl
So Axl is only looking out for his survival in the music business and I can respect that. When you command a God given talent that is GREAT, than you can command the shots. He doesn't have to roll over and play dog for them anymore.
As far as the record company putting out money for the LP I'm sure somewhere within that deal they have already recouped the money according to the contract that was drawn for Chinese Democracy.  smoking
Yeah but when you alienate alot of people in the industry you also compromise your ability to command the shots as you put it. Life is about compromises. Every side has to be willing to bend a little. In terms of artist exploitation, when we sign up for this job we know what we are getting into. Hes also become a very wealthy man because of those promoters and pencil pushers. So it works both ways.
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« Reply #367 on: June 25, 2009, 12:47:32 PM »

i also wasnt blown away by this album

Not enough crazy lixx? Not loud 'n' nasty enough?

 hihi



/jarmo



Not enough of that wild, bluesy les paul that just blows your soxx off!! What's the point if you can't get hammered to it??
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« Reply #368 on: June 25, 2009, 12:55:58 PM »

That is very true. You have to like what the artist is about and what he/they stand for.
The artists that I seem to be fond of are the artists that sing about the real truth. Many people can't stomach the truth and those are the ones who probably would hate artists like G&R; Bob Dylan; Neil Young...etc.
Many people dismiss Axl because they can't face the truth about themselves.
You know I can understand why many people will dismiss Chinese Democracy because it is indeed a rebellious-truthful cd that may be over their heads!!!!  hihi
Well that's o.k. There are many artists on the charts right now for those minds who are into non-mind-thinking / non-prolific thinking.
Chinese Democracy still rules!!! It is the mature-A.T. for destruction cd for this era.  beer

And what is the truth? Please enlighten us. In my opinion it comes down to the music. I can respect an artist for who he is and what he stands for. It doesnt necesarily mean that I have to like everything they put out. Loved Chris Cornell in Soundgarden but think everything he's done since is crap. I still respect him as an artist though.

People like Axl and Bob Dylan are rebels that went their own way and they are and were 100% true to what they are and never compromised their music or sold out, ever. They went their own way even when the fans didn't like it. That's the truth we are talking about.

As someone who is in the industry let me tell you that in one way or another we all sell out. There is a big difference between Dylan and Axl though. Dylan has always been willing to play the promotion game. He constantly tours behind his albums. While he rarely gives interviews he does tour a hell of alot. He also puts out albums pretty consistently. Im a huge Dylan fan and havent always liked his work. Doesnt make me any less of a fan though. Love his new stuff by the way. The one key thing that people tend to forget is that this is a business. If a label puts money into a project shouldnt you be responsible for helping to promote it? Its good to be a rebel and to have integrity and to never compromise your music but you have to realize that when you sign with a label you have certain responsibilities.

Dylan tours because he feels like it, he is always on tour whether he has an album out or not. It's his Never Ending Tour that he has been doing for the past 15 years at least. That's him. Axl tours when he feels like it too, none of them do things on other people's terms or to please any record companies.
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« Reply #369 on: June 25, 2009, 12:57:56 PM »

i can understand a rhich man at his age not wanting to do all the promotion when he doesnt want and have to. but i hope he understands that there are fans caring about and would want "something more", be it more frequent updates, singles, videos etc. and again its EASY to do these days with technology, he doesnt have to leave his house for answering newer questions or posting an update.

The one key thing that people tend to forget is that this is a business. If a label puts money into a project shouldnt you be responsible for helping to promote it? Its good to be a rebel and to have integrity and to never compromise your music but you have to realize that when you sign with a label you have certain responsibilities.

I think it's a BIG MISCONCEPTION that Axl does NOT want to promote Chinese Democracy and/or is not willing to do "his part" in promoting the album and band.

Around the time CD was released, Axl was all over these fansites talking to us.  He also did that big-time Billboard mag interview and was talking about them getting all their ducks in a row and making plans for touring and other promotion things and whatever.

Obviously, something happened to change those initial plans ...... but for peoples to be saying that Axl isn't willing to do anything and everything in his power to promote the album and band is IMO bullshit!!!  He already showed us that he's ready and willing to do whatever it takes!!!

If Axl feels that it's in everybody's best interest to step back and get shit straightened out before 'going public' again, then so be it.  He knows all the ins & outs (or at least is probably attempting to find them out) so I trust his judgment concerning all things GNR.   
 
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« Reply #370 on: June 25, 2009, 01:00:40 PM »

Well said.


If people don't get something now, it's immediately assumed they'll never get whatever that something is.

Lots of assumptions....




/jarmo
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« Reply #371 on: June 25, 2009, 01:02:27 PM »

He already said he never intended a big public roll-out anyway, so it's more about what people want him to do than what he should be doing...
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« Reply #372 on: June 25, 2009, 04:14:54 PM »

I think constant bad press - with Axl being portrayed as an asshole you know people will believe anything
Failure to deliver an album over the course of time
Hardly any promotion
Striking while the kettle is hot, 2006 is a prime example very exciting time to be a GN'R fan 
No Music video
No immediate tour
its a complex album at that - Its a fresh new sound and I like it
you either love it or hate it
Axl did no press - he is the man we all want to hear from lets be honest
Axl is the pulling power of this album - TALK TO THE PRESS!!! Its never too late!!!

And I believe somebody mentioned its more like a fan album and I have to agree, its a shame I think the album is up there with the best of the best of 08. The album just needs exposure cos I think a lot of people would like it. I'm quite surprised that how many people don't know that Guns never split. I mean have these people being living under a rock!! I would of thought when GN'R was back they was going to rule the world again and just kinda fell a lil short. I'm not slating the band by all means, I want Chin Dem to be successful as much as everybody here on this board.
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« Reply #373 on: June 25, 2009, 04:16:43 PM »

I also believe its a mistake to think that a big tour is going to ignite CD sales. I read somewhere recently where a musician was saying that albums now promote tours and not the other way around like in the old days. People are nattering on about touring when that just doesn't appear to be Axl's favorite thing to do sometimes.
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« Reply #374 on: June 25, 2009, 05:04:18 PM »

I also believe its a mistake to think that a big tour is going to ignite CD sales. I read somewhere recently where a musician was saying that albums now promote tours and not the other way around like in the old days. People are nattering on about touring when that just doesn't appear to be Axl's favorite thing to do sometimes.

Thats true, albums in UK are usually ?13 and the thing people don't realise is a band only get upto ?1 in most case these days from each record (dependent on their contracts) and then it needs to be divided amongst all of them.

Thats the key reason bands tour, because thats the only way they earn decent money. Live shows generate ticket sale & most importantly merchandise sales (of which the band get a very big chunk of), this is why everyone was expecting GN'R to tour by now because it is the logical and common next step and lets face it you'd have to be crazy to turn down the amount of cash GN'R could earn (especially from festivals). Now people will say "but Axl doesn't need the cash, GN'R do what they want", which is true because Axl will be set for life but the other guys won't necessarily and it may be what GN'R do but it is financial suicide to think like that. Lets not kid ourselves, money is the constant relevance in all businesses and music is one giant business and in this financial crisis everyone is trying to make the most money which is where my concerns stem from.

It may not be his favourite thing do (touring) but surely you don't hire a new guitarist if you had no asperations to tour, of course I know plans can change but for bands of that high scale (not to mention a manager like they) when they have a curveball they always have back-up plans in case something happens, which is likely why alot of people have became bemused with the current state of things and its certainly understandable.
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« Reply #375 on: June 25, 2009, 06:33:10 PM »

again didn't axl say he had plans that were ignored?

Look at Led Zep. Peter Grant (Zeps manager) said once: "We will rent the places to play and told the promoters you will only get 10%. The rest of the money will go to Zepp. 10% of Led Zep is better than 0% of Zepp." You know what, the promoters swallowed their money-forked tongues and agreed!!! rofl

oh that's must be why jimmy page was a 'known miser' . Guess they didn't really swallow their tongues.

lack of promotion.

i also wasnt blown away by this album

yea promotion is what blows you away.  Tongue
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mrlee
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« Reply #376 on: June 25, 2009, 06:55:12 PM »

i also wasnt blown away by this album

Not enough crazy lixx? Not loud 'n' nasty enough?

 hihi



/jarmo

No, it wasnt memorable enough, and it failed to reach me like many other albums have.

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« Reply #377 on: June 25, 2009, 07:14:01 PM »

Yeah, maybe you'd remember it if Axl had worn the same clothes he did in 1986....

Like many of those bands that make the so called "memorable music".

 rofl



/jarmo
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« Reply #378 on: June 25, 2009, 08:06:20 PM »

Yeah, maybe you'd remember it if Axl had worn the same clothes he did in 1986....

Like many of those bands that make the so called "memorable music".

 rofl



/jarmo
You make me laugh Jarmo.

If someone doesnt have a shrine on there wall for this album. Then auto you bring out all the guns "WHAT ...YOU DONT THINK CD IS AMAZING...THIS IS MADNESS!!!"

I listen to albums. CD was ok, but it hasnt been something that amazed me. I havent felt the need to listen to it since December.

Id rather take the new Hardcore Superstar album over that.

I spose if D, didnt think it were amazing youd claim he only didnt appreciate it because he is still pissed over Axls anti gay rant he did in St-Louis.
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« Reply #379 on: June 25, 2009, 08:34:23 PM »

No, I get that you prefer bands like Hardcore Superstar. Bands that never offer anything new to the world. They just like to party and sing about it.   Wink

When somebody idolizes bands that wear more make up than most girls, it's no wonder Chinese Democracy doesn't work for you.

That's like expecting a hardcore Poison fan to "get" the new Depeche Mode album.... Might happen, but there's a big possibility that it won't.


I'm glad bands like that exist so you can get that void filled.

Because GN'R isn't gonna keep re-doing Appetite over and over again. It's been obvious since about 1991....





/jarmo

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