DUFF MCKAGAN Says AXL ROSE Has Come Up With 'Some Magnificent Stuff' For New GUN

[ITARocker]

Yes, and its' pretty obvious, from a musician point of view at least. From a listener point I don't know, it depends.

Is it really?

I'll give you two examples. November Rain and Estranged were songs written by Axl that the band then put their stamp on. Amazing songs.

Does anyone really focus on the fact that they were "Axl songs" from the beginning?

An amazing song is an amazing song. No matter who wrote it and when.



There's been examples like this through GN'R history. Not all GN'R songs were written while they sat in a room together.....




/jarmo

Sure, but NR without solos is an incomplete song and far from being amazing or a masterpiece (thats why it took i don't know how many years to deliver it) and estranged musically is all about the guitar work. Those were axl's "incomplete" songs. But it's ok, they were a band and they put ideas here and there, you work on my song and viceversa...I'm not talking about being in the same room. I'm just talking about working togheter on incomplete/new stuff, you know, u have the riff or the piano part, but not the solo, or the synth, or the vocals etc etc. U have almost a complete song but you need a break part and u don't have any idea so here it comes the other guy who says "we can do this we can do that" ...
I mean  we all know Axl has material for 2 cds... But they are complete songs already (written and played by thousands of people), and I'd like to listen to those songs in their original form. Do you really see slash just playing finck or buckeathead parts or just playing his blues/hard rock licks instead of those virtuoso things? I mean, it could work, but does it make any sense?
I'd like to listen to new material they can bring togheter, to see if they've got their old spark, just this. Being in a band is all about create togheter something, if you have to play songs already written, you can buy songs from thousands of songwriters out there


"An amazing song is an amazing song. No matter who wrote it and when." Ehm wtf, just no, art and genius need to be recognized

[jarmo]

Sure, but NR without solos is an incomplete song and far from being amazing or a masterpiece (thats why it took i don't know how many years to deliver it) and estranged musically is all about the guitar work. Those were axl's "incomplete" songs. But it's ok, they were a band and they put ideas here and there, you work on my song and viceversa...I'm not talking about being in the same room. I'm just talking about working togheter on incomplete/new stuff, you know, u have the riff or the piano part, but not the solo, or the synth, or the vocals etc etc. U have almost a complete song but you need a break part and u don't have any idea so here it comes the other guy who says "we can do this we can do that" ...

You just proved my point.

I mean  we all know Axl has material for 2 cds... But they are complete songs already, and I'd like to listen to those songs in their original form. Do you really see slash just playing finck or buckeathead parts or just playing his blues/hard rock licks instead of those virtuoso things? I mean, it could work, but does it make any sense?
I'd like to listen to new material they can bring togheter, to see if they've got their old spark, just this. Being in a band is all about create togheter something, if you have to play songs already written, you can buy songs from thousands of songwriters out there

The last tour kinda proved that they can.

Listen to the live versions of the songs from Chinese Democracy. They didn't try to play them exactly like they are on the album. They made the songs their own.

"An amazing song is an amazing song. No matter who wrote it and when." Ehm wtf, just no, art and genius need to be recognized

Huh?

It doesn't matter where and how the song started if the end result is amazing.



My whole point is that IF the songs are already written, it doesn't matter. They would still make the songs sound like GN'R.




/jarmo

[ITARocker]

Sure, but NR without solos is an incomplete song and far from being amazing or a masterpiece (thats why it took i don't know how many years to deliver it) and estranged musically is all about the guitar work. Those were axl's "incomplete" songs. But it's ok, they were a band and they put ideas here and there, you work on my song and viceversa...I'm not talking about being in the same room. I'm just talking about working togheter on incomplete/new stuff, you know, u have the riff or the piano part, but not the solo, or the synth, or the vocals etc etc. U have almost a complete song but you need a break part and u don't have any idea so here it comes the other guy who says "we can do this we can do that" ...

You just proved my point.

I mean  we all know Axl has material for 2 cds... But they are complete songs already, and I'd like to listen to those songs in their original form. Do you really see slash just playing finck or buckeathead parts or just playing his blues/hard rock licks instead of those virtuoso things? I mean, it could work, but does it make any sense?
I'd like to listen to new material they can bring togheter, to see if they've got their old spark, just this. Being in a band is all about create togheter something, if you have to play songs already written, you can buy songs from thousands of songwriters out there

The last tour kinda proved that they can.

Listen to the live versions of the songs from Chinese Democracy. They didn't try to play them exactly like they are on the album. They made the songs their own.

"An amazing song is an amazing song. No matter who wrote it and when." Ehm wtf, just no, art and genius need to be recognized

Huh?

It doesn't matter where and how the song started if the end result is amazing.



My whole point is that IF the songs are already written, it doesn't matter. They would still make the songs sound like GN'R.




/jarmo

I really got your point, but those songs are not "their" songs, just this. They play live and let die, kohd, and made those songs better than the originals, but those are not their songs, even if those"sound gnr". I'd like to see if they can put togheter something that comes out of their minds, hearts and fingers. I wanna see and hear a team working, cause we already had a lot of conversations about chinese democracy and the fact that many songs sound like demos, or "cut & copy" stuff, and i wouldn't like to go there again.

[jarmo]

I really got your point, but those songs are not "their" songs, just this. They play live and let die, kohd, and made those songs better than the originals, but those are not their songs, even if those"sound gnr". I'd like to see if they can put togheter something that comes out of their minds, hearts and fingers. I wanna see and hear a team working, cause we already had a lot of conversations about chinese democracy and the fact that many songs sound like demos, or "cut & copy" stuff, and i wouldn't like to go there again.

None of the GN'R members wrote those songs for GN'R. Unlike most GN'R songs.

I said most GN'R songs because a song like Reckless Life wasn't written for GN'R.... It existed before GN'R did. But it was written by people that later started the band.


Yes, you want song writing team work. I'd be happy with GN'R songs.

It seems like you already have a bias. It's like you've already come up with reason(s) why not to like the songs. If they are Chinese style songs. Which is kinda funny because all we heard was "we need those guys back in the band". Then it happened, and then it turned into "we need new music".... And now it's almost like "we need new music but it has to be done the way I want it to be done". Just shows you that you will never be able to please everyone.... 

Like I said, I don't care about all that. The band is my favorite band. I don't like songs less based on how they were written/recorded, or by who and when.... But that's just me.




/jarmo

[sofine11]

We knew based on Axl's comments back in 2014 that at that point he already had another album more or less ready to go.  It makes sense that he wouldn't want to throw the baby out with the bath water and continue working on those songs with this lineup.  I just hope it's not a "cut and paste" type situation, and that he allows Slash and Duff the freedom to really make, say, The General and Atlas Shrugged, their own and put their spins on them.  Sorta the way they did with the live versions of Better and Chi Dem.

[jarmo]

Yes. The album was pretty much done.

But then you have to remember that at the time it made sense to release it the way it was. Without knowing the details of the songs or album, we know who was in the band.

Fast forward to 2019. Things are different. It doesn't necessarily make sense to release the same exact album now just because it did in 2014..... Different band.


I'll give you an example. A song like Shackler's Revenge. It made sense to put it on Chinese Democracy. But maybe today they would rather go for a song like let's say I.R.S..... If that makes sense.


So maybe the album isn't the same as it was in 2014 because some things have changed.... 





/jarmo

[allwaystired]

Yes. The album was pretty much done.

But then you have to remember that at the time it made sense to release it the way it was. Without knowing the details of the songs or album, we know who was in the band.

Fast forward to 2019. Things are different. It doesn't necessarily make sense to release the same exact album now just because it did in 2014..... Different band.


I'll give you an example. A song like Shackler's Revenge. It made sense to put it on Chinese Democracy. But maybe today they would rather go for a song like let's say I.R.S..... If that makes sense.


So maybe the album isn't the same as it was in 2014 because some things have changed.... 





/jarmo

To be honest, I'd like to hear it how it was then, as it was obviously something that as you say made sense at the time. To me, that's something I'm very interested to hear. That's not to say of course I wouldn't want to hear any updates that may or may not have been made to the material, but my curiosity will always make me want to hear different versions of stuff.

I do wonder if the material left over from that era might have been put away, and that time has now gone as in 'the moment has passed for that work'. Who knows? I think it's fair to say though that the motivations and mindsets that drove the band at that time have now altered- which may well have an impact on what they want to release, lyrically and musically.

[jarmo]

Sure. I get that you'd want to hear it. Many of us would love to.

But the thing is. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that the album that was done in 2014 is even more experimental or similar to Chinese Democracy in style.

Does that really describe the band in 2019?

Also, it's possible other songs that were considered not to fit that album might now make more sense..... It works both ways!




/jarmo

[allwaystired]

Sure. I get that you'd want to hear it. Many of us would love to.

But the thing is. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that the album that was done in 2014 is even more experimental or similar to Chinese Democracy in style.

Does that really describe the band in 2019?

Also, it's possible other songs that were considered not to fit that album might now make more sense..... It works both ways!




/jarmo

Yeah absolutely. What worked then might not work now.

If you had a choice, would you go for that old material being released exactly as it was in 2014, or updated and amended for 2019? (Let's say, as a discussion, you can only choose one to come out). I think I'd probably go for the former personally, if I couldn't have both!

[jarmo]

I'm one of those who believe that the band knows better what works for them. Whatever they want to release.

The super fan in me obviously would love to hear everything ever recorded! 



/jarmo

[allwaystired]

I'm one of those who believe that the band knows better what works for them. Whatever they want to release.

The super fan in me obviously would love to hear everything ever recorded! 



/jarmo

Haha! Yep! I feel the same really, bands know what they want to do and what works, and as a fan I do respect that.

Having said that, it always frustrates me that there's stuff I can't hear- but that's part of being a fan I suppose!

[ITARocker]

I'm one of those who believe that the band knows better what works for them. Whatever they want to release.

The super fan in me obviously would love to hear everything ever recorded! 



/jarmo

If there is some raw material i think they could work on it, or even if there is some almost complete stuff that Axl thinks could sound much better with the old partners in crime they could work on it

Apart from that, i'd like to hear new songs entirely written by the holy trinity AND the already recorded songs played by the other guys.

But at the end of the day, I think we'll have a 13-14 songs album with 2-3  new songs and the rest will be the unreleased CD 2 stuff re-recorded

[pilferk]

But at the end of the day, I think we'll have a 13-14 songs album with 2-3  new songs and the rest will be the unreleased CD 2 stuff re-recorded

I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

We might get 10 (or some number) of CD 2 era stuff, but I think it's a disservice to just say "re-recorded".  I suspect that stuff will be largely rewritten.   Not the lyrics or basic meldoy, but the actual meat and potatoes of the songs.

You pointed out Estranged...and I think that's a good example.  And I further think Duffs comments support my "feeling":  The guys will put their own spin on all of it.  They'll listen to what Axl has, and they might play within that melody and lyrical "space", but it will be Duffs and Slash's heart and soul in it (and Franks, and Richards).  They will work in their own flourishes, solos, etc within the confines of the structure.  I think Duff saying he's heard "really amazing stuff" speaks to that....if they're listening to it, I'm assuming they're giving feedback and planning how they're going to expand it and make it their own.

I mean...this is all circle jerking theory crafting, really.  We won't know til the stuff comes out, and maybe not even then.  But I have faith that they'll create as a unit....sure, some of it might start out with CD2 era material as it's basis.  But I don't think it will sound anything like it did in 2014, in whatever state that was, once it sees release.

Just like I expect Slash and Duff will bring some stuff to the table they've been fiddling with over the past decade...but it was too "Guns-y" for them to do solo, or with their other bands. 

Again...I guess we'll see!!  But, the positive in all this is...I think we have confirmation there is new music being worked on.  That was a big point of contention late last year...whether they would/could function as a creative unit anymore.  I think we have zero doubt that's the case, now.

[sofine11]

But at the end of the day, I think we'll have a 13-14 songs album with 2-3  new songs and the rest will be the unreleased CD 2 stuff re-recorded

I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

We might get 10 (or some number) of CD 2 era stuff, but I think it's a disservice to just say "re-recorded".  I suspect that stuff will be largely rewritten.   Not the lyrics or basic meldoy, but the actual meat and potatoes of the songs.

You pointed out Estranged...and I think that's a good example.  And I further think Duffs comments support my "feeling":  The guys will put their own spin on all of it.  They'll listen to what Axl has, and they might play within that melody and lyrical "space", but it will be Duffs and Slash's heart and soul in it (and Franks, and Richards).  They will work in their own flourishes, solos, etc within the confines of the structure.  I think Duff saying he's heard "really amazing stuff" speaks to that....if they're listening to it, I'm assuming they're giving feedback and planning how they're going to expand it and make it their own.

I mean...this is all circle jerking theory crafting, really.  We won't know til the stuff comes out, and maybe not even then.  But I have faith that they'll create as a unit....sure, some of it might start out with CD2 era material as it's basis.  But I don't think it will sound anything like it did in 2014, in whatever state that was, once it sees release.

Just like I expect Slash and Duff will bring some stuff to the table they've been fiddling with over the past decade...but it was too "Guns-y" for them to do solo, or with their other bands. 

Again...I guess we'll see!!  But, the positive in all this is...I think we have confirmation there is new music being worked on.  That was a big point of contention late last year...whether they would/could function as a creative unit anymore.  I think we have zero doubt that's the case, now.

Pilferk, this a fantastic post and basically sums up my hopes for what the next album will ultimately be.  I suspect if Axl has perfectly good vocals and melodies recorded from 99-08 that they're not getting scrapped by any means.

[GNR4LIFEJD]

Why would anyone actually care if New music came out that was from CD Era sessions or completely new its going to be all NEW to US.

[draguns]

In addition to this, "This I Love" started out as a UYI era song back in 1993 and turned into something else on CD in 2008. 15 year gap between the start of a song to its finish. GNR always had  history in starting songs but finishing it up later on.

[PermissionToLand]

Why not? I'd say it's way more likely to be new ideas than previously recorded studio recorded tracks that they're willing to wipe the contribution of past musicians from and replace with the current lineup.

Anyway - it's all speculation, which is my point. No one has said anything about it being CD-era material, nor have they even hinted at it, to to the best of my knowledge. It's all just people reading into things their own interpretation.

GNR doesn't seem to work that way though. They didn't throw away Nov Rain or YCBM because those were written before AFD came out. And supposedly Axl recorded TIL in 1993, so it's possible Slash did some playing on that which was wiped. Not to mention Brian May and a bunch of other musicians' parts getting wiped throughout CD.

I really got your point, but those songs are not "their" songs, just this. They play live and let die, kohd, and made those songs better than the originals, but those are not their songs, even if those"sound gnr". I'd like to see if they can put togheter something that comes out of their minds, hearts and fingers. I wanna see and hear a team working, cause we already had a lot of conversations about chinese democracy and the fact that many songs sound like demos, or "cut & copy" stuff, and i wouldn't like to go there again.

You are assuming they wouldn't completely re-write the songs. Maybe Axl would just approach Slash with the same basic idea he approached Bumblefoot with on, say, Atlas Shrugged, and not whatever form the song ultimately reached with Bumble. But even if he did show Slash a well-formed version, there is no way Slash wouldn't want to re-write it anyway.

But at the end of the day, I think only a few songs would be post-CD material anyway, just the strongest material that Axl cannot let go to waste, and would fit with the current lineup. I feel like a lot of it probably wouldn't work anyway. Stuff like Oh My God and Shackler would not fit the current band. So I think it will be at most 1/2 CD material, at most.

[DeN]

plus, the gap time allows Axl to estimate if the songs passed the test of time

[14 Yrs Of Silence]

I'm certainly in the camp of whatever they release I'll be happy, don't care when it was written.  It will be collaborative I'm sure in a number of ways for different songs.  At the end of the day, I'm an Axl supporter number one, because for me there's been no side projects that can touch anything GN'R has done, including Chinese Democracy. 

I do hope before the end of days, we'll get to hear the full lot of completed material that's in the vault, including the more experimental stuff that probably isn't right for the current line up.  Would be a shame for any of it to go to waste. 

[Executioner]

Slash and Duff are just throwing out this PR stunt about GNR recording a new album to promote their own new albums surely if a GnR album was in the works they would put their own side projects on hold, sounds to me they don't really know what will happen with the band or whether they will be in it going forward ,the former members all fed the press about new music for years after CD but nothing came about and most of them were kicked to the Kerb when Slash and Duff came back.