Here Today... Gone To Hell!

It's official - The General is next:

per GNR Merch:

Guns N’ Roses return with a brand new single entitled “Perhaps” out now via Geffen Records. Written and recorded by Axl Rose, Slash, and Duff McKagan this year, it stands out as the legendary rock band’s first release since 2021. 7” includes another new song on the B-Side, “The General.”

Tracklist:
Side G: Perhaps
Side R: The General

Limit 4 per customer

No word on a CD release yet but I'm assuming similar to Hard Skool there will be one - vinyl being released in October (ships Oct 27)

I'm sure they'll do an EP version too. Not everybody has a record player.

The General, that's exciting.  Been waiting a long time for that.

Maybe the Nightrain fan club item next year will be a CD version with some live b-sides?

I think that might be too limited - guessing we'll get more stuff added to the official store over the next little while. I mean Hard Skool event got a cassette release after all.

Hahaha perhaps is great the video looks awesome and now they are releasing The General.
I love this
I love this!!!

Ordered the vinyl (almost ordered the shirt too)

What a day to be a GNR fan!

Do we know when the general is coming as yet?

The vinyl ships on October 27th so worse case scenario then. I would assume before then, but I’m sure the band and management only has that answer.

The Perhaps 7" Vinyl shows as Sold Out on gnrmerch.com.  :o I didn't get to order a copy.  :(

They also have them on the German and UK stores

de.gnrmerch.com (http://de.gnrmerch.com) and uk.gnrmerch.com (http://uk.gnrmerch.com)



/jarmo

Weird, I still see it.




/jarmo

That is weird. It is available again now. I was able to order it.  ;D

Jarmo you happen to know if a CD release is planned, or is this exclusive to vinyl?

Baz said The General was the sequel to Estranged. Seems weird to put it out as a b-side with no fanfare if that's the case.

Or, it's the R side instead of the G side on a 7".

It takes time to get vinyl pressed and released. Perhaps it's just a case of getting both songs out while the tour is still happening....



/jarmo

Imagine the General turns out to be just that instrumental piece they used for entrance music in 2006 😂

Brain originally titled the song "The General" because they were eating General's Chicken when working on it.

When Brian turned it over to Axl, he assumed they called it The General as a reference to Tommy Stinson, who apparently was made fun of as being the musical director when the guys were creating instrumental tracks for Axl to consider.

The group also considered Axl to be like Julius Caesar so they sampled music from the movie Ben Hur, used it for material then called that song "Seven".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7mH8ulKAbE

Friends and family have heard the song at parties and whatnot.

It has vocals and lyrics.

You can hear vocals on the cell phone recording too.
Though it would be interesting if one of the instrumentals was released as such. Devious Bastard with the samples maybe. I have a soft spot for that track.

DEVIOUS BASTARD is FUCKIN EPIC!. It's like Rage Against the Machine-ish. I can't even imagine Axl grovin over that.

So there is a rumor being reported that there will be no CD or digital release of The General. That it will only be available on the vinyl release of Perhaps. That is insane if true - anyone heard this?

https://www.stltoday.com/life-entertainment/local/music/st-louisan-richard-fortus-of-guns-n-roses-finally-makes-it-to-biggest-hometown-stage/article_48d6409a-48dc-11ee-8ab3-2731484c4382.html

Richard mentions he’s really happy with Perhaps and the article slides to the fact that The General may be played live soon.  Could be reported speculation, but you never know.

Is it this version https://youtu.be/D_ihpCWS0l0?si=dNoZlyTRb0GqHLXL

I'm not normally one for strong opinions, but I'd be quite disgusted with the band if it was only a vinyl only release.

I think in this post covid landscape where folk are still struggling to make ends meet, I think forcing people to buy a yesteryear format would be an indulgent move, given how much money they have made on tour in recent years. Most people I know do not have record players anymore lol. It is quite a niche thing.

Let's see what pans out, but hopefully they do not go down the road of monetising the track this way.

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Yeah I have no way of playing vinyl at this point.  I have one vinyl album but that came with a downloadable copy so it's more of a collectors thing.

Fingers crossed

It will most certainly be released digitally. We're not living in the 70s. If it's not then someone else will copy the vinyl to a digital format and release it online illegally

Good one!!

For those complaining about vinyl. Record players have had a big come back i got a 3 in one about a year ago plays vinyl, cds and i believe has bluetooth capabilities. Been collecting more vinyl records since and probably the best way to listen to an album.

I believe current sales figures show that vinyl beats out CDs in sales. Now, is it as high as streaming or digital downloads? No. But I don’t know that niche thing is accurate with vinyl.

It’s definitely a different experience and sounds different. Not entirely better in terms of quality, I think at this point digital still has more dynamic range, and depending on your system, the friction actually does wear out frequencies through repeated platings.

That said, it’s my preferred way of listening. Forces you to commit to an album and really get into it.

Vinyl has had a comeback, sure. But a vinyl exclusive for a song we've talked about for years?

Personally I buy CDs and rip them to listen on the go. The booklet/physical copy is a keepsake and I can play the MP3 in the car on via in-home streaming. The band gets paid, I get a handy backup in case of hard drive crash. Vinyl just isn't in the mix and hasn't been for me since about 1989.

I'm all for a vinyl release alongside a digital release. I like vinyl but it is considered a niche market nowadays. I would buy vinyl as a collectors thing, then I would buy the tape or cd and play that, this is going back in time lol

Back in the day when coloured vinyl and picture discs were an exciting find in the record store

More because physical media music is becoming a niche market vs vinyl NOT being a niche market.

I'd be shocked if the song wasn't released digitally.  Especially if they want it played on any broadcast forum (satellite, radio, etc).  If it's really a B side and they don't want anyone to hear it, maybe.  But I sort of doubt thats the case.

It says online this year that only 15% of people own a record player, and half the people who buy vinyl don't own a record player, that seems reasonable.

I was definitely in one of those groups for a few years before I was in the other group.


As a matter of fact, I bought CD on vinyl in 2008 on release, and didn’t have a way to play it until 2022.

Sounded great by the way. And glad I bought it back then as it seems hard to find now.

This may be a dumb question.  Will hardly be my first.

This being released on vinyl only...does this mean it will not be available on iTunes/Apple Music?  Spotify?

I'd happily support the band any way I can.  I legit bought the digital singles for 'Absurd', 'Hard Skool', and 'Perhaps'.

But if my only option is ripping it off YouTube, I will 100% go that route if its my only avenue.

Anyone know, either way?

Not sure where this rumor originated.  ???

How likely is it that they won't put out the track? Both Absurd and Hard Skool were released to radio and streaming. The only tracks not available are the live tracks on the singles.

But this isn't a live track. I'm assuming they'll release it to radio as well?



/jarmo

I have yet to hear any of the 3 new singles on the radio, ever.  And Philly hardly hurts for rock stations.

In fact, in my life I have never heard, not one time, anything on the radio from CD or TSI?

Shit, even going a far back to the UYI singles, I think the latest one I ever heard on the radio here was 'November Rain'.  Released February 1992.

But we are getting off track here. 

I certainly hope that 'The General' will be on those services.  Just seeing who knew what. 

I've heard Hard Skool on the radio quite a few times when it came out. I have yet to hear Perhaps, but I didn't really listen to the radio that much since it came out. I've even heard Better a few months ago (fan request).

so much time offline

I believe there will even be a new album in November.
The launch dynamics have changed
Perhaps it's a beautiful song and The General will possibly be the kind of song that touches the soul like TWAT. Here in Brazil, I listen to Chinese every day. It will be the album that Axl will remember as a great musician.

Just waiting for them to come back
I went to Rock n Rio 2001, and then to all the shows in São Paulo that they had. Last I had the opportunity to take my children. My daughter is 17 and my son is 10.

I’ve heard Hard Skool and Perhaps a fair amount of times on the radio here in NJ, never Absurd, but I think that’s for obvious reasons.  I don’t think a clean version of that song got sent to radio. 

The source from what I can tell is the same Italian site that were first to report Perhaps being pushed back a week. Going on second hand translations since I don't speak the language I don't think they mention radio. Just no digital or CD release  I would assume digital includes streaming but maybe they meant downloadable, and it will still go to YouTube and Spotify.

well if u need some fine translation from italian give me the link  ;D

Then your radio stations are a little bit whack or you are SUPER unlucky.  Maybe they hold a GnR grudge? No idea.

I've heard 2 of the 3 new tracks on the radio....just haven't heard Absurd.

I've heard CD (the title track), IRS, and TWAT several times on the radio and I've heard Hair of the Dog and Since I don't have you from TSI.  All in the past year or two (and I don't listen to the radio that often).

I'm pretty sure The General, if it is going to be released, will be released to the radio (and thus, there will be digital versions available).

I heard Perhaps played on UK radio the other evening while driving in the car.

https://radiorock.it/guns-n-roses-la-nuova-the-general-non-sara-disponibile-in-streaming-e-in-digitale/

Pretty sure based off the URL alone they do say streaming and digital

Going by Google translate, the article says no streaming platforms or digital sale. It also says that the source is the same insider as the one reporting that the Perhaps release was pushed back a week.

philly stations hold a grudge.

Specifically wmmr for a handful of reasons, the cancelled show in 02, axl’s general behavior, and I think also because of the song one in a million. They did have one DJ who was friends with one of the CD era members and would speak positively of the band, but I don’t even know if he’s still on the radio.

When they released better the station played it three times that day only to trash it during those three plays and then never played it again.. Other than that I’ve only ever heard them play the standard hits, which are probably obligated through contract. Or at least that was when I listened to radio. It’s been probably a decade at this point since I’ve cared to.

yep correct

I heard Perhaps in a bar a few weeks ago.

This was where I was headed with my question.  Thanks for the info.

'The General' is the only hook to buy the vinyl single.  If I can get it on Apple or Spotify, where is my incentive for the vinyl?

Looks like I will have to rip this off YouTube.  Sorry, GNR.  I'd support you if you didn't release things in a format that has not been the standard since I was in grade school.

I would be really surprised if they didn't release it in digital format. The question is, will they release it before Oct. 27?

Sadly as a New Yorker commercial rock radio is relegated to 104.3 classic rock and if you live north of NYC maybe you get 95.1 again classic rock and they never play new stuff even if its from bands that get played alot on those stations like I don't think they play anything from U2 after It's a Beautiful day era or anything past 2000 metallica not sure if they have played the new Stones song but probably not.  I would have to hear it on satellite radio at best to hear CD era GNR. But your right CD or TSI for that matter doesn't get  radio play.

WMMR Philly played Hard Skool daily for a couple of weeks in 2021, and has played Perhaps daily for the last week.

There's talk in Gunner circles that the Perhaps vinyl with The General as a B-Side is being delayed one week out from shipment.

@jarmo: Is there anyway to confirm or contradict this?

Time will confirm

Is this because of the German merch store listing a different date for the 7"?

I haven't heard of a delay.




/jarmo

May have been. There was also an Italian connection to the rumor.


Thank you for your response jarmo.

The magic 8 Ball has been delayed until December 1st.
Who knows if that affects shipping of the vinyl  ???

The vinyl has been listed as delayed in some markets per reports.


Also the songwriting credits have Brain on the track... Axl, Duff, Slash. A couple of guys I've never heard of... and it's listed as  The General and Monsters.

Steve Freeman and Marc Haggard are the other writers credited on The General

Or The General and Monsters as it is listed

(https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/f38328d/2147483647/strip/true/crop/3000x2093+0+0/resize/840x586!/format/webp/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnpr-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F76%2Fb6%2F5a01d126425b900145758f5c8b16%2Fmerle-haggard-1974.jpg)

Suddenly Axl's outfits on SCOM make sense...

Info about Marc "M.I.R.V." Haggard:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.I.R.V. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.I.R.V.)

He's the guy playing from 0:39 on:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWyTyn2vAgE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWyTyn2vAgE)

Jamming with Primus & Bucket (0:25):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPHh69mvEyU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPHh69mvEyU)

Steve Freeman a.k.a. Extrakd:
https://www.discogs.com/artist/149857-Extrakd (https://www.discogs.com/artist/149857-Extrakd)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extrakd (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extrakd)

Some work with Bucket (there are others with Brain too):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAliIdAV-NE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAliIdAV-NE)

Interesting. From those performances I have no clue what to expect lol

That makes sense that other accompanying merchandise get delayed perhaps due to production issues.

Its going for the Christmas No.1 slot... General Santa remix version.

 I'm happy that Axl is releasing material, although I believe he has a full album and that it would come out this year. I listen to my CD playlist almost every day. Put the sequence

1- Chinese
2- Shacklers
3- Absurd
4- Better
5- ITW
6- TWAT
7- HARD SK.
8- Sorry
9- Perhaps
10- Maddy
11- The Blues
12- Catcher
13 - TIL
14 - Prostitute

The CD is much more cohesive, the songs excluded as B-Side

Nice stack! I'm going to lineup a playlist in that order but I'm going to swap SOD for RIAD. May even slide Scraped in there somewhere.

Never really liked The Blues/SOD.

I've realized I'm in the minority but I absolutely love RIAD. Best heard with good legit headphones; so much going on.

I've come to appreciate Scraped as well since listening through headphones.

Ok..I'm confused. Can't read through all these pages.
Am I going to be able to hear the general on Friday without buying the vinyl.....or not?

No one knows so far. (Well, Jarmo must know  :hihi: )

Patiently waiting to hear the track

Guys, I got my hands on the vinyl and it's actually a 3 minute ad for Dollar General. The solo fucking rips though.  : ok:

I think so because it’s going to be uploaded anyway so if I were releasing that I think doing it at the same time as the vinyl release makes sense

Can you confirm it was actually sung by The General from those insurance commercials with Shaq?  ;D

Update:


THANK YOU FOR PURCHASING FROM THE GUNS N' ROSES OFFICIAL STORE!

WE ARE REACHING OUT REGARDING YOUR ORDER #GNR70288 CONTAINING THE PERHAPS 7" VINYL.

THE RELEASE DATE FOR THIS ITEM HAS BEEN CHANGED. ORDERS CONTAINING THIS ITEM ARE NOW EXPECTED TO SHIP ON OR BEFORE 12/8/23



/jarmo

My email also says if they don’t ship it by 11/22 and you have not responded that you want to keep your order it will be canceled automatically. I already responded.  Just giving a heads up to those that ordered it to respond so it doesn’t get canceled without them knowing if there is another delay.

Standard GnR. Gotta laugh. Or you will cry.

And of course the band/management won't even talk about it, it will be swept under the carpet as if nothing happened.

Tomorrow is Friday in the states , when new releases come out.  Maybe a digital version still comes out on Apple, Spotify etc..

If it didn't come out already in Australia/NZ where it's already Friday, I don't expect it to come out anywhere else.

Right unless they put it out in the middle of the day tomorrow.  Like Green Day put something out in the middle of the day this week , did Australia get the new Green Day single before us?  I’m not sure, I’m asking.  I understand things that are set for a certain release date like on Spotify, or retail Australia, Europe etc, gets it before us.

Vinyl releases get delayed all the time. Had a Pearl Jam vinyl just ship this month that I ordered in February.





/jarmo

have you listend to The General yet?

It's Izzy's fault.....   :rofl:

omnishambles
noun [ C usually singular ] UK informal
UK  /ˈɒm.nɪˌʃæm.bəlz/ US /ˈɑːm.nɪˌʃæm.bəlz/
Add to word list
a situation that is bad in many different ways, because things have been organized badly and serious mistakes have been made:
The implementation of the new policy was branded an "omnishambles" by the Opposition spokesperson on education.

Will The General be released on a streaming platform?

GOD I HOPE SO

We call that a cluster fuck where I'm from.   :hihi:

I ordered from the german store and have not got any email.

Vinyl releases get delayed all the time. Had a Pearl Jam vinyl just ship this month that I ordered in February.





/jarmo

Was it pulled on the day or day before shipping? Did it also say you have to contact them just to keep your order in place?

I've heard before that it's common with delays on vinyl products, due to very few places that actually press the records.
Is there any info from the band on what the plan was with digital release of The General? Like, drop the single and a week after the release, drop The General to streaming services?
So now with this delay, they really should activate plan B and release The General digitally...

The German store still says estimated delivery next friday so maybe the problem is not that big in Europe?

If it's delayed we gonna have a leak before the release. History says that.

I'm in the UK, and ordered the vinyl from the UK merch store, and have received no such email about a delay.

In fact, when I view my order, it still says the release date is today.

Quite sad to see this, I guess there’s another 24hrs before all hope is lost but this one cuts deeper than usual considering they gave a release date this time. As a fan of the band you do expect to be let down when it comes to new music but this is just cruel.

let's say even for the most supportive fan, it's embarrassing.

again.

Im not going to pretend I ordered it. I didn't. I have no issues with production or unforseen delays, but the fact its left the day before to announce or no official word what is going on. No way they didn't know about it before then. It's highly embarrassing, unprofessional and amateurish. Again the biggest thing is I don't think anyone is at all  surprised, which shows the kind of operation that runs this machine.

The only answer we got from the genius management: "Perhaps"

Point!


At first, I felt as if this was a whole new eclipsing all others biggest letdown from this band. But then reality showed up and the memory of December the 6th, 2002 reappeared.


So, you know, same shit different decade.



Doesn't change the fact that GN'R is the greatest rock 'n' roll band to ever grace this planet.

Yep.

And they will have no one to blame but themselves.

Agreed, in general principle.  Once again, this band can't do something that literally every band does literally every week of literally every year.

But, given the history, total shock is a bit of a hard sell a well.  We know what we signed up for with this ramshackle operation.

People pre ordered something and it got delayed. Not a big deal. Happens from time to time. The product is not time sensitive where your life is now in shambles because it's not at your front door

The delay is not a big deal. The lack of communication is the problem.

Agreed about the communication , or lack thereof, from mgmt. But that should be expected and built into the overall expectation/experience. Everyone already knows that this band is generally not capable of doing things "smoothly". It's not like they won't be releasing it. What's a few more wks?

Stockholm Syndrome

Yes

True, what's a few more years or decades...

Now maybe it will come on digital platforms before vinyl. As fans anxiously await that sadness, but it's part of the Guns n Roses world, they have the most boring fans on the planet. It's us lol

one thing is almost certain it will leak before people can buy it.

well, I'd say you reap just what you sow

Bands take 400 years between albums all the time
Bands announce then de announce then re announce singles all the time
Bands have 17 producers all the time
Bands have their managers releases statements that they “booked a tour by accident” all the time
Bands hire dudes who insist on chicken coups in the studio every day
Bands bite the ankles of security guards all the time

It’s all standard industry practice guys
Come on…

Hahahahahhahahahahhahaha

The management of the band makes the Four Seasons Trump press conference next to a dildo shop look like a fucking PR master stroke

GnR management is and always has been an omnishambles

Maybe its a chinese general and we have to wait 13 years or whatever for it to drop....I Jest....I hope ???

This sucks so much! What happened?

aaaaaaaaand I was right  :hihi:

Yep!  :hihi:

It just leaked along with another one called monster.  Both are good, but Monster is better.

I had to edit this as i just played it through my 80's system with the big speakers. Monster is REALLY good.  This song needs to be released properly.  Axl sounds great and the guitar work is awesome

That’s encouraging, still such a shame it’s been delayed with no notice.
Like others have said, delays happen, but there’s usually better comms. Can’t wait to hear them and have them officially out there!

After much back and forth, we are finally content with the quality of the Perhaps/The General vinyl. We are sorry it pushes the release to December 8.




/jarmo

Well. So The General and Monsters are two separate tracks which makes the single entry in the composers database kind of odd.

I don't know what to make of The General. Not what I expected. Clearly very personal

Monsters is really really good and hopefully will forever shut up the crowd who claimed the vault was empty or nothing had lyrics.

My only critiques are the mix for both songs in certain spots and wish the "2006 tour intro" was more prominently used.

Am I right in hearing that "tour intro" (which I believe was Beltrami) in both songs?

These feel like two sides of a coin. Thematically and musically. But they also feel like distinct songs. I dunno. Tool does this stuff (Parabol / Parabola).

The orchestration piece is in the general. And also in Monsters, so yes. There is a verse in monsters that most thought was the general ( from the evader take) .
I think this could be one song w the right production but probably better as a two piece

I swear I hear the orchestration in both. It's definitely in there around the 0:55 to 1:05 mark in The General.
Then very early in Monsters, like 10 seconds in... sounds like part of the old concert intro Axl had hinted was part of The General.

I agree, like this as a two piece. It's almost like one song became two.

Yes, the intro piece makes an appearance in both. More prominent in The General

It makes sense to me that Monsters rolls into The General as one track.


EDITED TO ADD: Truly incredible songs, both of them. So fucking haunting. I'm in awe of Axl to make it through this shit to become the greatest most talented lead vocalist of any band, all time.

 luftuaeB

If this has been the held back BIG GUN for a decade...then it's worrying

They aren't for the masses but perfect for the CD Era contingent

The General feels more personal and I don't think it would have mainstream appeal - but Monsters is catchy enough to work as a single.

THIS IS SOME MAGIC!


It has some Funk in it, it ALL OUT ROCKS.


This is 21St Century Pink Floyd I can't stop listening to this.


FUCK, This Is SWEET!!!

i truly believe The General is about axl because axl was abuse when he was a child

I agree.


It's Powerful.

I loved ''The General''. It's dark, powerful, doomy, and has a catchy/aggresive chorus, with Axl's vocals at their best.

''Monsters'' sounds very good, and it's more radio friendly i think. With a potential for a single. Overall i prefer 'The General' but 'Monsters' has some devilish/ferocious Axl's vocals at the end, which are really impressive. One of the best Axl moments in the GNR song catalogue for sure.

What these 2 songs miss is a monster guitar-solo by Buckethead. That's a real pity.

I love both of them…maybe now some people will come to the realization that maybe they actually do have a number of songs in the vault….I think Axl’s experience with Chinese made him cautious about releasing new stuff

Quite possibly. I honestly think GNR could have released Chinese Democracy as is, without a single note changed, with Slash and Duff in the band and it would have got a much warmer reception.

Anyways - Hard Skool, Perhaps, The General, Monsters, Absurd (the last one being my least favorite of the bunch) still could have been an EP, or half an album if Atlas Shrugged and State of Grace and a few others remain on the horizon. Really surprised these aren't getting a bigger release.

Love these … they both have a what feels like a deeply personal, soul bearing quality.

This is great! Never once, did I think about canceling my order, when I received the email yesterday.

Long time I was here.
Was looking forward to the song and bumped into the leaks. Hopefully the actual release is a better mix but it's clear the style is in the same absurd (sic), Chinese Democracy era way.

Not bad but 'different'...and not really 'my guns n' roses'. So the looking forward part is away now  :-\

I really hope the reunited band will brings us again real hard (bluesy) in your face rock n' roll some day.

Wow. Monsters is sick.

Love Monsters!


I was there for you
It's all I could do
Oh But it's over now...

I didn't give them a listen but am reading what people think the lyrics are.  I know at the time the lyrics were written things were pretty fresh in Axl's life, coming from several sources and there was a lot of hurt.  Understandable there is a lot of songs around the same themes and from a very dark place.  I kind of don't want to hear these.  It's too close to things I don't want to revisit.  I have resolve, peace and joy in my life.  Wonder if Axl's not really interested in the revisit either, if he's moved on, if these songs aren't really important to him any more and that's why he doesn't say much about them or put them in the set list.

My take on it.  Could have nothing to do with what Axl's thinking.  

I think Monsters has one of the best lyrics that I ever heard in a long long time. And the track is a killer. The General is very good as well but it took a couple of listenings to grow. I love them.

This is my first post in 5 years.

Anyone else notice the subject matter is alluding to a very sensitive topic? Perhaps Im reading a bit into it, but it feels like it's centered around what's happened to Axl when he was young, or maybe he's shedding light on the atrocities involving childhood trauma?

I agree with you…

Sry but this is just pure studio recording onanism… bunch of sounds and effects trying to fill the vacuum left by the music that is completely lacking. I see why these 2 songs are released as b-sides. You can see them as soundtracks or something like that but that’s it.

Good to see you here Estebanf!

I love both songs. And yeah, the subject matter is super heavy. Im gald he made great art from it.

The General in particular, yes.

And I think that may be why it's coming out as a b-side. It's a very heavy topic and maybe one that Axl doesn't feel needs to be pushed as a single. That might also explain the "no streaming" rumors as well.

The more I listen to them, the more I like them. The General is so amazing and different what GN'R has done before and it still sounds like GN'R. There's so many levels and changes in the song that you have to listen to it multiple times to really appreciate it.

Imo the general has a very NIN vibe type of sound. I'm huge NIN fan so I really dig it.

The general was a grower for me. The last time, I heard it through good quality headphones and found it to be just brutal, the overall atmosphere, the lyrics, the chorus, everything. Monsters was good, but i was not blow away by it (yet).

Is "monsters" the same song as soul monster or a different song?

That seems to be a subject of some debate at the moment. The locker leak of the "My and My Elvis" track seems completely different. I think that's what most of us assumed Soul Monster was. The words "monster" and "soul" do appear in Monsters but there's nothing about Elvis (originally that was Elvis Presley and the Monster of Soul, and Leave Me Alone was an alternate title I think?)?

I think we're going to need Axl or someone to clarify. But honestly I hope whatever the instrumental was, it gets finished off as well. Was one of my fave demos.

These two leaks sound like demos IMO

Not very impressed anyway :/

vocal melodies, as usual, are good. Musically speaking these songs are really poor. basically 3 chords with 300 layers. I don’t see them as ‘songs’ but more as ‘soundtracks’. Very repetitive with a lot of atmosphere. I can see these songs in a sci-fi movie. But again, if u need 23 years or more  to release these songs (which sounds old already, maybe not to people who listen to gnr only, but it is what it is) something went wrong. These songs sounds like demos because  they are not going anywhere, like a typical studio song. Like you have these good melodies but u stuck there, you can’t develop them so you keep adding things here and there till you can’t get rid of any of it. So you have 300 reverbs, delays, vocoders etc etc making the song more of an ensemble of sounds than a structured song.

They should get rid of Brain, Frank... and get a proper rock drummer. That hip hop groove/beats are awful. They should go back to the hard-punk-bluesy-rock sound
Slash and Duff want to please Axl with this reworked CD era material, but IMO they should focus on writtin new rock stuff songs with a proper rock drummer

If there ever will be a new Guns N' Roses record, these two newest (along with Absurd) hopefully won't make the cut. These aren't guns at all, let alone big guns. Truly B-sides, curiosities, appetizers.

I agree with ITARocker, these are just cut & paste jobs in the studio, not real songs. We have these two lines sung here, another two lines there, another different part somewhere else. Then we have a sort of wall of sound behind them, not really sounding like a band playing a song together. Then we put these two vocal parts together, then copy those exactly same parts again, add the different part...and we're still not in two-minute mark, so we paste the same clips again, maybe leave one part away or change the order. Vocal melodies are pretty good, but it's really boring to get the same exact studio effected clip three or four times.

Kudos for the subject matter in the lyrics, though.

Brain being on Perhaps, saved that song for me.
As for the General etc I’ll wait for a properly mixed and mastered version before making a final decision.
Based on Absurd, hardskool, Perhaps sound quality, this is not the final versions of the General and Monsters.

I don’t illegally download stuff but I heard it on you tube , I thought the whole thing was phenomenal.  Band pushing themselves to places they’ve never been, which is what they’ve always done. None of their albums sound the same , which is a big reason they are my favorite band. 

So many bands are content just putting out the same record over and over, what is the point of that?  The new Green Day song which I’ll use as an example because it came out last week sounds like an AI generated song of what a “Green Day” song should sound like.  And I like them a lot , but I see no point in doing that.  The same can be said for a lot of other bands, I’m happy GNR aren’t one of them.

I also do hope it does come out as that 9 minute single song, I really enjoyed it like that. 

I'm thinking about the song content and Axl.  No final thoughts yet.

Soul Monster if that's about Stephanie, yeah, he dodged a bullet there without knowing it.  Time proved that, kick that woman to the curb and move on.  End those love stinks songs unless Slash wants to revisit that.

The General, not that the subject matter was a secret or that he was going to release it, just came out maybe before he was ready.  People find what they need to hear at the time they need to hear it, important there's something there for them to find.  Up to him if he wants to play it live and what that means to him.  I think it's important to have out there but if you're going to bring it up, it needs follow up.  He could do interviews but there's a lot going on there and it never fully resolves itself.  Comes around again.  Can close the wound but the scar is still there waiting to get ripped open.  Doesn't go as deep but it gets opened.

Axl's okay, you can see it in his behavior, on his face.  He's a veteran of that war.  There needs to be a follow up song for people to find.  Songs give you so many options for ways to find personal strengths and move away.  GNR songs are good for that, take the shit out and deal with it.  I hope he doesn't leave us with this, where it's at.  Beat the fuck out of this topic.  Well no, anger gets you through, but over here, where they didn't win in the end, I'm free and happy with my life.

I enjoyed them both before the link was removed and I’m looking forward to hearing it (them?) again soon.  That said, the second half / Monsters was more immediately gratifying.
.

I have to mostly agree. There are some great parts to the songs (screaming bridge of Monsters & low, distorted vocals) but as a whole, they feel unfinished. The chorus of Monsters is too upbeat, doesn't fit the creepy vibe set by the distorted part. Same issue I have with Shackler and the double-time upbeat pre-chorus ("Don't ever try to tell me...").

And the point about them being built around simple chord changes is a criticism I have of a lot of CD-era stuff. It seems like they stopped really writing around 2000 or so. After that, it was just tinkering around the edges. But many of the songs still needed real structural work.

That said, I'm still listening to them for the parts I like. And it's just interesting to hear this alternate universe where Slash never left.

Agree!

Oh yeah, and the song is definitely Soul Monster. The description of SM by Axl fits Monsters perfectly:

"I think it's our most Black Sabbath moment. Sang it on a Christmas eve. Imo the meanest section of anything I've sung to date. Which having said that I'm sure when it's heard others may disagree but we felt it was a Christmas card of unadulterated venom so to speak. I felt a lot better afterward." (Axl Rose , Here Today... Gone to Hell Forum, Dec. 2008)

The more I listen to The General and Monsters the more I like them.  Thinking back to the releases since the reunion, all these songs don't sound like collaborations as much as Axl tinkering and added elements by Duff and Slash.  The post-reunion songs have a CD feel--which is fine... but GNR has had 7 years since Duff & Slash returned to release an album of new collaborative music.  7.  I have finally resigned myself to the idea that a GNR album with "new" music will never be released ("not in this lifetime"). 

I love Axl as an artist, but I can only assume he releases music when he is damn well ready and that's it.  Everyone else in the band works on other projects and releases music on common industry timetables.

Yep that's what i've been saying for years, even talkin about the paradoxical "overproduction". You kind feel the lack of something behind almost all of these songs.
I just want to add this: imagine u have melissa reese as backing vocal and you can't find her anywhere in any songs. Axl's is doing all the vocals, even the more subtle ones. I mean u can see him on his laptop doing all the stuff alone with pro tools   :hihi:. Obviosuly you can find always interesting things in any of these songs because axl is overall a great singer and musican but i've always felt the lack of working togheter with other people (the funniest thing that comes to my mind it's him listening to dave navarro playing his solo on oh my god trough a phone or something like that and say "good"...cmon now  :hihi:). Even the slash's contribution is overall good but uninspired, you can feel it, these are not "his" songs.

Agree

I thought the songs were amazing, Monster was better because it had a lot of guitar solos. Axl walked some really dark paths, the guy is absolutely a great songwriter

The General is actually stuck in my head this morning. Didn't expect it to be an earworm but here we are

I'm actually starting to really like these 2 new songs. Although I hope they are actually meshed in one nice long song with a good bridge in between. If the lyrics in The General are more clear in the final version (assuming this one is not the definite version) with less effects, that would be a plus.

Nevertheless, the releases in the last couple of years are really good songs.

Yeah, I think it's pretty clear that Axl found his inner Ozzy when singing Monsters.

both awesome, I prefer The General. but both parts are great.
can't believe these tracks didn't make it on Chinese.

I wonder who made the tracking list for this album, but man, not including these ones, or Perhaps, or Hard Skool...

well, I found this new url https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jhv0J0DOvVE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jhv0J0DOvVE), sorry if it's not allowed but I just updated and everyone is talking about this  ;D


It only lasted a few minutes and was already removed.

After several listens, the songs are consistent with the attributes that make GNR great. Ideally, Monsters would just be the outro/coda of The General, consisting of one, complex epic song. Monsters seems like a natural epic outro in classic GNR style. It "shifts the tone" of the song at the end, consistent with past GNR anthems. Musically, it is very haunting and memorable. It makes sense that they released it by Halloween.

If taken as one epic song, it is clearly Shacklers/Madagascar/Oh My God meets Coma/You Could Be Mine. My only complaint is the mix and some of the vocal effects. However, they were just leaked demos, so I'll wait for the studio release.

With that being said, The General/Monsters follows the tried and true, magical GNR formula:

1.Mesmerizing and catchy intro (YCBM, Jungle, SCOM, etc.)
2. Complex and epic coda that shifts the tone of the song and concludes in unforgettable grandeur (e.g. NR, Rocket Queen, Locomotive, Patience, DTJ)
3. Interesting bridges and breakdowns in the middle of their songs that break the predictable formulas (Where do we go now, So far away, etc.)
4. Softer, catchier melodies that blend/mix/interchange perfectly with harder edged rock- GNR always knew how to blend catchy pop melodies with punk attitude, hard rock rasp, and heavy metal riffing. That was their trademark and genius.
5. Axl's vocals on these songs show off his entire five octave range as well as his "different voices." Sweet, ballad voice, as well as rasp, rage, demonic fury, angst, anger, paranoia, disillusionment, alienation, etc.
6. Demonstrates their keen ear for melody and their superb pop sensibility- GNR always had a catchy pop sensibility like the Beatles, Queen, and Stones
7. Slash's sweeping and weeping solo is very melodic and drives the song, especially in the Monsters portion. Slash's soloing in Monster drives the rhythm of the song.
8. Lyrical genius

the great musical thermometer. I showed it to 5 friends who don't even care about Guns n Roses lol. Everyone said "but why the hell haven't they released this yet? it's really good

detail. Monster, I believe it's Finck's famous Steve Ray V. style solo that Axl mentioned

The General - Guns N' Roses

Daddy, don't
I swear I won't
I'll be good from now on
And I'm awful sorry
Daddy don't
The hell I won't
I won't be good anymore
And you'll all be sorry

[Refrain]
Can anybody tell me why the pain, it just won't stop?
Can anybody help me?
The pain it just won't stop

[Chorus]
My only regret
Is that I never took the time to forgive
All those unspoken feelings
That were never spared
And those who understand
And lack self respect
And not the sordid meaning

[Verse]
Daddy, don't
I swear I won't
I'll be good from now on
And I'm awful sorry
Daddy don't
The hell I won't
I won't be good anymore
And you'll all be sorry

[Refrain]
Can anybody tell me why the pain, it just won't stop?
Can anybody help me?
The pain it just won't stop

[Chorus]
My only regret
Is that I never took the time to forgive
All those unspoken feelings
That were never spared
And those who understand
And lack self respect
And not the sordid meaning

[Bridge]
Don't know what to tell you now
It's never really what they tell you, now
You oughta know what they tell you now
And not really what they tell you now
Don't know what to tell you now
It ain't really what they tell you, now
Don't go where they tell you, now
It ain't really what they tell you, now

[Chorus]
My only regret
Is that I never took the time to forgive
All those unspoken feelings
That were never spared
And those who understand
And lack self respect
And not the sordid meaning

[Outro]
Is that I never took the time to forgive

HOLY!! FUCK!! The General is KILLER LIVE!!!


Axl CRUSHED IT!!! Proved he still has the range to get it done even though many doubted him with some speculating a proper release was foregone cuz he couldn't pull it off live. Naysayers sayin nothin now  : ok:


Slash adds so much soul to this EPIC!!!!!

Have you felt the pain?

Both songs are growing on me. I prefer Monsters but both are great. Anyway I think this lineup will shine the moment they focus on writtin new stuff instead of rework songs written by Fink, Brain, Stinson...
Slash and Duff are both excellent writers. I Want to listen to genuine Slash riff back in Guns.

And I still think they should get a rock drummer

How is the guy who’s been behind the drums of Guns N Roses for over 17 years not a rock drummer?  Genuine question, what don’t you like about Franks playing ?

If you know GNR history you know every album has grown and changed in sound you obviously start with AFD then lies is part live album part ep. UYI was a big direction change from AFD. Ill exclude TSI since its covers but then Chinese Democracy was as big a change in sound from UYI then UYI was from AFD sound. I would guess any future album release would be more in line with CD sound but im sure will be vastly different as well. It will be interesting hearing slash now with modern day axl vocals since this aint the 90s anymore.

In my opinion Brain or Frank are not hard rock drummers. Their style is more Nu metal, even funky or hip hop players. They are both great drummers but when you listen to CD era songs the kind of beats and loops you find there are not hard rock at all. They fit in a funky-hip hop-nu metal act, not a hard Rock Band like GNR
I guess that change was something intentional for Axl but I really doubt Slash or Duff really want that instead of a drummer like Sorum, John Tempesta, Matt Laugh, Josh Freese or any other hard rock drummer.
I want to see how this evolve once they focus on completely new songs written by this lineup. Wanna see how Frank or Brain adapt to Slash or Duff riffs and songs

Nu metal is soooo far off.  :hihi: Those beats and loops do not come from them anyway.

Brain is by far more nu metal or funky metal than hard rock

Keep saying it, it might come true one day.

Do you consider Brain style Hard Rock?
How would you describe his style then?

Influences of industrial and jazz, still within the rock spectrum. Definitely not Limp Bizkit and Korn territory.

IDK. I'm very excited about the direction of Monsters/General. The groove is something I wanted but didn't expect and they still go heavy and more straightforward in parts. Whoever is drumming on it throws down at points. Monsters has some excellent dual guitar work in it. I especially like the parts under the part where Axl screams. Duff and Slash are indeed excellent writers and it shows in the background parts of all of the four songs that have been released recently. Due credit belongs to the CD-era band for creating the framework for these songs but I've been digging the spin the current lineup has placed on those songs.

Agree on that. Maybe I should say industrial instead of Nu-Metal

Anyway I see Brain style closer to Ray Lucier's than Sorum, Tempesta or any other hard rock drummer

Have there been any reports/rumors on why the band has not released an album or at least a Lies-type EP since 2016?  ???

The way they've been working well together and getting along on the tours (as far as we know), it would not surprise me if the band simply released 1 or 2 songs every couple years and toured every couple years and that's it until they all die (don't fix what ain't broke).  No album.  No EP.  Just a collection of singles and B-sides.  Maybe a compilation album in 10 or 15 more years that compiles all the random released songs. :)

Publishing rights has been one source of speculation.

The interesting thing is that precisely songs that Slash and Duff recorded were leaked. only The General will be on vinyl correct? In other words, there may be more music leaked from Monster that wasn't on the release radar until now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqRVLPwJcw8

Wouldn't be so sure. They seem like two sides of the same coin, and the writing credits being "The General and Monsters" makes it seem like they might both be on there. But we'll find out in December I guess.

I didn't know writing a good song was so hard for them.  :-[

Monster is top song .
I liked The General, I loved the entire CD lol.

 Axl did a great job with musicians of different styles, for me he is a great producer and very brave to walk through different styles and still sound like Guns n Roses

Both songs have grown on me.  The thing is, only big GnR fans will give the songs the chance to grow, the average listener will not, so I'm expecting poor/average reviews for these songs.  Whether that matters or not is a different story...

If released, I think Monsters have the potential of being the song that people will like right off the bat. The verses are cool, the chorus is somewhat catchy, and then you have the - in my opinion - greatest vocal performance of Axl in the past 30 years during the bridge (or whatever that is called).

I don't know , Monsters sounds to me like the intro of a TV series....

Both songs have a really dark and cinematic vibe

They could do a good Soundtrack for a horror film

The Japanese GNR store linked on gnrmerch.com has a CD release of Perhaps shipping Dec. 20
Nothing on the US store yet 

Is there any info on tracklist on the CD?

Just Perhaps and The General.

https://store.universal-music.co.jp/product/uicy5140/

I really want a CD release. And I really don't want to order it from Japan.

Same, but i'm not paying 3-to-4 times more than the price of the CD for shipping.


This is all very bizarre to me, this vinyl-only for The General, and then this Japanese exclusive for the CD release.


Why? Crumbs for the lowly mice? A "you get what you get" type mentality?


The slow sporadic release of singles is mind-boggling as well. Hiding The General on the flip-side of a single, which is not as good.


The General is mind-blowing incredible. Monsters ever better. Both are better than the 3 post-reunion releases. And I love all 3, yes even Absurd.

DEAR GOD RELEASE THIS ALBUM
Hard Skool
Absurd
The General
Monsters
Perhaps
Atlas Shrugged
State of Grace
Eye on You
Quick Song
Oklahoma

Part of eye on you was Already recycled Into hardskool, so I don’t
Know if you’d see that one come Out.

Yeah, why not?  :peace:

I give it a 4/10. It feels disjointed, lack of structure. Also more an idea than a song. A bit repetitive.
I like the screaming but that's about it.

I do not like the song
and I want to know if people like it or not as a majority

Two possibilities:

One, vinyl may not have had a comeback in Japan the way it has elsewhere. I really don't know.
Two, maybe a CD will be added here eventually and the Japanese store was just updated first.

There's a lot going on in GNR land these days between these new songs, touring, heck even the new EOY version is something to talk about. As far as The General being hidden, my theory was it came down to the very personal nature of the song, but then they're playing it live...

Through google translate, it says that the cd-release is exclusively to Japan.

But they ship worldwide

Its pretty hard to say one way or another without decent vocals.

Axl's live vocals on the few I've seen are just dreadful.  Like, 'There Was A Time' live caliber bad, I'm talking.

Bet that ain't cheap

Newest rumor is that there will be a digital and streaming release prior to the vinyl shipping

Possibly Dec. 1

Got the CD and shipping for around $17

I can't figure out how to put a US address in when signing up to order the CD.

I like the song, especially the chorus (he sang that pretty well all things considered). My only "issue" is that the song seems incomplete. There's only one verse, one chorus, and one refrain that's repeated. That's it. This song has been around for how many years and this is all that's there? This is supposed to be the follow up to Estranged (a lyrical masterpiece) and there's only one verse? Same can be said for Perhaps and HardSkool.

I'm having the same problem - it's only letting me choose a local shipping address in Japan.

Those who have ordered successfully, any tips?

I thought that This I Love was the follow up to Estranged.... ;D
I really like both Monster and The General. But all I've heard about The General (prior to the leak) is that it was S. Bach's favorite among all the songs he has heard. I think that is where the hype about the song originates. Ok, there is also the part with the added orchestra, that got people exited. It should be judged as any other song... give it time to be heard.
I think the true experience of all these new songs will be when we get the full album. Hard school, Absurd, Perhaps all make more sense when I combine it with The General, Monster, State of Grace, or whatever else is waiting to see the light of day.
During the UYI hay days people hardly talked about Estranged and Coma when they had huge songs such as: Don't Cry, November Rain, KOHD, Civil War etc.

Full album?

Well the CD follow up, in whatever form that might be...

Update on the CD situation:

It doesn't appear Universal Music Japan ships internationally, and Amazon Japan doesn't have Perhaps listed yet. HMV Japan says it's restricted for export and can't ship Perhaps overseas. There are other retailers carrying it and some of them will ship. If anyone needs advice, inbox me. Not sure if they're supposed to be shipping this abroad or not, but frankly the day it comes out Ebay will be flooded with copies, a lot of which will likely be fake. Might as well make sure the money gets to the band.

according to blabbermouth the song is out i think this is a messed up https://blabbermouth.net/news/duff-mckagan-names-his-favorite-guns-n-roses-songs-to-perform (https://blabbermouth.net/news/duff-mckagan-names-his-favorite-guns-n-roses-songs-to-perform)

The General has been up-loaded and is parked on Spotify.


So....midnight tonight most likely....


ARTWORK:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1143985060022861855/1179887884451450943/1701377291978_f758eb9f86de409e931302ccbbc846d9.png?ex=657b6b38&is=6568f638&hm=236961dd563847e127ca022547fcfcb1421a928f7262b9a8760d1c79ceb4a76e&

or next friday

Yeah, possible, although PERHAPS was uploaded and parked 6 to 8 hours before it debuted on Spotify.


EDITED to Add: I'm in the US, and a friend over in Europe said it's still not available 5 past Midnight, so UGH!

At least we'll get it by next Friday which is HUGE since it has been a mystery whether or not it was getting a digital release.

I'm starting to wonder if those managing this band enjoy fucking with the hardcore fans.

good point

Not everything has to do with the ones managing the band.

I'm sure some think management ships out merchandise from the warehouse, posts on the band's social media, uploads tracks to streaming services and prints tickets to shows, but that's not reality.  :hihi:

The band licenses their music to released by Geffen/Universal Music. See, Perhaps: © 2023 Guns N' Roses, under exclusive license to Geffen Records



/jarmo

Next Friday it is.

Apparently.

Hopefully  :drool:

I for one think that it's kinda fucked up that the guys have been back "together" for over 7 years and they still haven't released ANY new material... instead all the releases are leftovers from CD. They always like to tell in interviews that they're going to write and release new music, but I don't think they actually even intend to. And listen, I don't think they HAVE TO write or release new stuff, they really don't - they're all financially sound by keeping this never ending nostalgia tour going. They don't owe anything to no one, but one can still wish...

Would you rather have songs released in 2021 and 2023, or nothing and then "new" songs in for example 2025?

This really isn't different from GN'R recording songs like Reckless Life or November Rain. Songs that existed before the band had even formed.




/jarmo

I still have hope for an entire album, why the hell did Monster leak if they had no intention of releasing it during the tour?
Clearly this came from some studio access with finished songs

How many Fridays left?

Ships on December 8, 2023



/jarmo

I was referring to Erick's comment about an entire album.

LOL. Ok.

I'm focusing on the next Friday!  :hihi:


/jarmo

THE GENERAL & MONSTERS combined have the potential to be the 21st Century's Eruption/You Really Got me.....and/or.....We Will Rock You/We Are The Champions.

(Couldn't think of any other song combos that go together like Rice & Soy Sauce and Chicken & Fingers :hihi:)


Wishful thinking based on the leaks. Even if The General is the only flip-side song to Perhaps, they really should release these 2 songs together on streaming platforms.

I've got 5 kids ranging from ages 30 down to 10. I feel VERY STRONGLY these young adults/kids would get into these 2 songs. They are so catchy. GN'R would open their catalog to a whole new generation(s). Perhaps was a great start but those 2 songs are FUCKING AMAZING!!!

THEY GO TOGETHER!!!

Preview on Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0hVcsoorCv/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng%3D%3D

Awesome, looks like it will be available digitally.  I bought the vinyl but digitally is how I primarily listen to music. 

https://gunsnroses.lnk.to/TheGeneralPresave






/jarmo

What's the benefit of pre-saving it? You don't get it any earlier, right? Looks like I have to agree to give UMG access to my Spotify account, which seems odd.

I think it's automatically saved to your library once it's out.

Edited to add: Yes, it asks for that permission. So it can add the song to your library I guess.  You can check which apps have permissions to access your account if you login on to the Spotify web site and check your account there.





/jarmo

the studio version is still the same i really think we got 2 studio versions The General and Soul Monster but i was expecting The General be much more different like longer after all we did hear this song is a sequel to Estranged and i was talking about the soul monster leak

Provided to YouTube by Universal Music Group

The General · Guns N' Roses

The General

℗ 2023 Guns N' Roses, under exclusive license to Geffen Records

Released on: 2023-12-08

Producer, Associated  Performer, Vocals: Axl Rose
Producer, Studio  Personnel, Mixer, Engineer, Associated  Performer, Keyboards: Caram Costanzo
Associated  Performer, Drum: Bryan Mantia
Associated  Performer, Background  Vocalist, Bass: Duff McKagan
Associated  Performer, Guitar: Slash
Associated  Performer, Guitar: Richard Fortus
Associated  Performer, Keyboards: Dizzy Reed
Associated  Performer, Keyboards: Chris Pitman
Associated  Performer, Guitar: Marc Haggard
Associated  Performer, Strings: Marco Beltrami
A&R: Nick Groff
A&R  Coordinator: Michele Ronzon
Studio  Personnel, Additional  Engineer: Eric Caudieux
Composer  Lyricist: Guns N' Roses



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35IMLsf54oI



/jarmo

Unavailable for me...but I'm thinking that will change once we get to tomorrow. :)

Yeah, it's put in New Zealand at the moment. Australia coming soon.

Midnight local time.





/jarmo

Blame Baz for all this hype!

Blame? The General is PHENOMENAL! If you combine The General & Monsters they are EPIC and on par with Estranged. Yeah, yeah.....my opinion.....yours weighs no more than mine.


The dropping of the ball, and I do mean a dropping of the ball of epic proportions......is to just release TG as a flip-side, a "hey, here's Perhaps and this other thing", and not release TG & Monsters together as one EP. Whomever leaked these 2 together gets it.


THE GENERAL & MONSTERS
G- The General
R- Monsters


I thought this was all the band's decision, but have since learned this may all be in the hands of UMG. So, whomever made this decision is not fit for the duty of deciding what's best for music releases for this band. It's still the same old BS that's been going on since 2004...or 6...or whenever CD was originally ready for release before somebody decided to keep fucking with it.....recording over shit when Bucket left....or was fired....or whatever particular piece of GN'R drama that mess falls into.


But the average non-obsessed GN'R fan isn't going to give a fuck, I get that.


Play these 2 songs back-to-back for people driving in their cars and their gonna forget their troubles for 9 solid minutes.


They are haunting, catchy....Axl sings from the center of his being. He whines, he rages, he pushes back.....and in the end of both those masterpieces, he's says fuck-it......you can have your demonic shit.....I'm moving on.

Oh I totally agree with you, I love the song.

 : ok:


The General is the brainstorm of Brain and my guess is that Monsters is as well.

don't get me wrong i do love The General like the 4 studio songs

Can someone tell me who Marc Haggard is? Its very interesting to me that the song which has slash and duff on it which makes sense and credits are given to Brain and Chris Pitman. Why did they leave Frank and Melissa off and not let them re record?  did none of the previous guitarists Buckethead, Finck, Bumblefoot have any contribution to these songs as well?

Cant stop playing it!

Ugh.  Can't say this one will be going in heavy rotation.

The music is pretty good.  But the vocals recorded underwater?  What the fuck?

Same.

Put in a word for me that we'd like Bob Ludwig to do the mastering from now on.

Ok here's my thoughts.

Extremely underwhelming track, vocals are fine up until 0:50, then it sounds like Axl's recording microphones were placed in the shower while axl was singing in the room next door, then it progressively gets worse at 1:06 where the lyrics are completely inaudible, apart from "Time to forget" and this is coming from someone who's english is their first and only language.

Extremely disappointing track, feels very disjointed, and you can tell Slash's talk box component and the overuse of 'wah' guitar  was just cut and pasted to include him on the track to keep him happy / band morale good, this is extremely unfitting.

I give it a 4.5 to 5/10. I'm disappointed.

Another rough one.  Oof.

Really enjoy this song and yes I agree with an above post it is even better when paired with Monsters.  That could be because that’s the first way I’ve heard it but it does seem to fit.

My favorite thing about these new songs they’ve released is they don’t sound like anything the band has ever done before.  Most bands at this stage of their career more often than not are repeating themselves, if they are even bothering to put out new music at all.  I’m hoping this trend of putting out a song at a time from song ideas that originated from the “Chinese Democracy “ years with Slash and Duff doing their thing on them continues for the foreseeable future. 

I like it. Sounds like the vocals were recorded fairly recently.

It sounds like the vocals (especially the "can anybody tell me") were recorded through a walkie-talkie 20 years ago.

Had the same reaction.

I thought the same.

And is that a good thing?  Making me wonder about the wisdom of wanting a new album done with the current band, as is.

Each to their own, but i thought it sounded like Axl from earlier this year, and how he did on Perhaps.

Yeah, what were they going for there?

The cynic in me says that the vocals are more recent, and that is done to hide the sound of the them a bit.  

As in, it was done out of necessity.

See, I think it's an artistic choice.  I think the vocals are meant to "move away" from you.  The effect gets more pronounced as you move through the song.  He's sort of going into the depths and the effect on the vocals is meant to show that.  Just mho.

And I see what Baz meant by "heavy" both in tone and topic.

I like it.  It's something different.  I never did hear Monsters, so it's interesting to hear people talk about that being a companion piece to this one. 

I'm wondering why Axl rewrote the lyrics to this song... hmm

Yeah, to me it's like two people/two sides of the same person singing. In order to get that idea across, one is his normal voice, the other has effects.





/jarmo

did not know that it sounding the same to me

Don't like the vocals effects. Dont like the fake drums either. 

Good song, strong lyrics!

Look, no one bats 1.000

I thought 'Perhaps' was excellent.  Thought 'Hard Skool' was very good.

'Absurd', I'm not sure I have played 5 times in total since I got it.  'The General' is likely to join that distinction.

Buy hey...some fans really dug them.  That's cool.  Just as others didn't love 'Perhaps' like I did.  No worries.

Differing opinions are good.  That's credible.  People that wave the pom-poms no matter what, just as well as people that shit on everything regardless, their credibility lacks.

Explain why liking what your favorite artist/band releases makes one lack credibility?

If one song is a 10, another a 7 that somehow invalidates that person's credibility? If someone is happy the band released a new track, that makes them less credible? It really doesn't. In your reality, someone who has the ability to whine is somehow more credible than someone who doesn't.

You post on a fan forum, your worry about this so called credibility is somewhat ironic.

Come on, get real. You're as credible as the next guy.


There's people who think UYI should have been one album. And then there's those of us (me), who have zero credibility, who think it's perfect the way it is....  :hihi:



But you're right, everyone will never like everything. It's as simple as that. There is no perfect GN'R track that everyone will like equally. And there's no perfect setlist. Etc.

GN'R have released four completely different tracks in the last two years (or so). I think that's awesome. If someone dislikes all four, sucks to be them.

The General seems to be the most experimental of them. Which shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone here.



/jarmo

I like the song. I do think Monsters is vastly superior, but The General has definitely grown on me. My biggest issue is the failure to follow through and carry the momentum on any of these releases. The music video for Perhaps was an awesome and completely unexpected surprise. But there was nothing done to follow up on that and all the excitement kind of died. I get that they toured for 7 years and that certainly pays the bills. I’m not necessarily expecting them to make endless TV & radio appearances, but a little something would be nice.

The General is currently #1 on the iTunes rock chart, but any hype is going to wear off quick. Maybe I’m misguided and extra work and promotion from the band wouldn’t make much of a difference, but it’s frustrating that they don’t even try.

Cue all the negative ninnies and armchair music critics of the Internet who think the know everything who will complain:
GNR isn’t the same since Steven Adler left!
This sucks cuz it doesn’t sound like Appetite.
Axl stinks and I don’t like him.
Since this isn’t better than November Rain, it’s the worst thing ever!
It’s over produced!
The productions sucks!
Where’s Izzy!?
It’s too different!

Calm the fuck down. Just give it a few listens and see what they’re doing. Writing songs about strippers and booze in you 60s doesn’t work. Sorry.

Really, guy?  YOU want to go down this road?  You, of all people?

OK.  Here is what I mean.  Since you asked.

We all have favorite bands, favorite shows, favorite directors...what have you.  Not everything is super awesome.  Way of the world.  As I said, no one bats 1.000.

So if a person find themselves in a spot where you can't bring themselves to say anything critical out loud, they lack credibility.  And I am not even talking outright shitting on things.

Look at my last post.  I said I loved 'Perhaps', think 'Hard Skool' was very good.  The other 2 were misses, to me.  I do not consider that out of line.  Nor would I think anyone out of line if they had different opinions on which of the 4 were good and which of the 4 were not.  Different tastes.

But my man, I've known you over 10 years now.  If you were asked to utter even a *mild* criticism such as that with a gun to you head...your brains would be all over the wall.  Because you could NEVER say such a thing.  Never seen ONE thing you didn't defend like your own child.  And chastise the hell out of anyone that dared.

I do not claim a eidetic memory.  But I would feel pretty confident betting green money that no one here could recall a situation where you said something even as mild as "yeah, that one didn't land."  Or, "yeah, not their finest moment."

Flipside is also true.  A guy who says everything is terrible is not a credible person.  Simple law of averages dictates something must have been good.  At at the very least, alright.

Extremes in either direction are not noble.  Finding fault with nothing, as well as finding fault with everything, is simply an illogical way to live life.

I agree with you. 

The ones I have in bold are things I consider things that can be summarily dismissed.  Those ships have all sailed.  People still fighting those battles are the like the Japanese soldiers they found on that isolated island in like 1959 that thought WWII was still going on.  Those battles are over and done.

I like the song. Not as good as Hard Skool, IMO. The song just seems incomplete. One chorus, one verse, one refrain. Repeated. That's it. The song just lacks depth. It most certainly will not catch on in circles larger than this [cue: artistic integrity argument]. I think what most of us want is a new song that makes the band relevant again...and it's apparent to me that it isn't going to be a CD-era song.

Yes guy. I will admit that I don't understand this obsession some have with their own credibility and image when they are all posting on fan forums. The fucking hint it in the description if you ask me. Do you go to a fan forum to hear credible opinions?





And I said, not every song released has to be your favorite. Didn't I? One can be a ten, one can be a seven etc.


I'm fortunate enough to be able to enjoy everything GN'R has put out. Some songs, I listen to less than others. And then some songs come back into rotation again. That's quality of you ask me.





Slightly disturbing.

There are those of us on this planet who, if we dislike something, we move on.

If band X puts out new songs for decades and I don't like them, I'll listen to the old stuff. This happens! I don't go on their fan forums and post about how they haven't done anything good since 1993!



I don't feel like I have the need to point out things I don't like as much as something else or look for faults in order to seem credible among people who I never met. I just don't care to be honest, about what people think about me. I do see the humor in all this. People taking themselves seriously to the point where they feel they need to find something they don't like to have credibility. I mean, if that's important in someone's life, good for them I guess.

Do I have favorite songs? Yes! Is there something wrong with them? I don't know. I like the songs. Why do I need to find something wrong with them? Do I have songs I don't enjoy as much? Yes. What's wrong with them? I don't know. I just don't listen to them as much as others.






There's no music video for the song.

I think the fact that the holidays are coming might have something to do with it. So hopefully there'll be a video of some kind coming out in the future.




/jarmo

I think it's a great GN'R track. A modern classic GN'R track. Axl's vocals and lyrics. Slash and Duff plus orchestration.


Plus the orchestration reminds me of the 2006 shows when it was used as an intro.





/jarmo

the song moving me deeply.
I love every part of it and in fact it's one of my all time fave GNR tune.

we should appreciate having songs of this level of quality at this point in the band's career.

how many bands can achieve that?

great job guys


(except for the artwork, it sucks, next time call me :hihi:)

i agree with you

Any new GNR song is welcomed.

I woke up this morning at 4 am and the first I did was play the song.

Every time GNR puts out a new song, I always get excited. I still remember in 1999 when they released Oh My God. I played it like 20 times in a row!

Great to hear is the #1 on the iTunes rock chart though, but as Faldor pointed out, it'd be awesome if they followed through every time they release a new song. With Perhaps with the cool video, the momentum was high that first week, but it died out quickly.  I guess they just want to let the music do the talking, but it'd be nice if Axl/Slash did some sort of interview to support any release.

I like The General alright. Not my favorite of the 4 "new songs". Basically verse, bridge and chorus repeat. I like the lyrics, but I was hoping to hear different lyrics on verse #2.

The intro melody reminds me a bit of the chord progression in Madagascar and Better. Maybe I'm completely clueless here, didn't Robin Finck write the music for those tracks? I didn't see him credited for this one, so I could be totally wrong.


I can't wait to hear Atlas and Monsters. Both vastly superior to The General.

I absolutely love the song!

Very different, but in a good way. Can't stop listening to it. Masterpiece in my opinion! I know it´s not exactly like classic GN'R, but it still sounds like GN'R.

Congratulations Guns N' Roses!  So happy to hear new music!

Reviews are interesting.  More like announcements than giving an opinion.  Leaves you wondering if the author even listen to the song.  Guess we'll see what it does on the charts.

I hope so. I know the delays were probably a factor. It would’ve been great if The General & Monsters could’ve been released in October. Not that they’re Halloween songs per se, but the dark vibe fits Halloween much more than the Holiday season. Not that it would have made a huge difference, but it could have gotten a jolt.

I’m all for letting the music do the talking, but it’s hard to stay at the forefront without putting in that extra effort. Have to ride that wave before it comes crashing down. That being said, it’s still holding the top spot on the iTunes rock chart, holding off Tom Petty and Sebastian Bach. What year is it?

To me, the General sounds like the love child of Live and Let Die (illusions version) and IRS

Nobody's opinions weigh more than mine.....in my world. I don't give way for reviews of others. The General is my favorite of the 4 songs released since Slash & Duff returned.

I've read what many are saying about The General. "It's brickwalled (whatever the fuck that means)....."the mix is terrible"......."only one chorus, the bridge this, Axl's vocals that".......NONE of that means anything to me.

I LOVE IT. The lyrics, the tone....Axl's vocals are FANTASTIC! It's new and wow is it different. It's like he's singing out of the darkness he existed in when he was living as an abused child.

My ranking of the 4:
The General
Perhaps
Absurd
Hard Skool

I recognize MOST GN'R fans would have a different ranking.

The opinions of others don't change how I feel about music, life, anything.

So, just my 2 cents which at the end of the day might be worth 1 cent.

All that matters is, do you enjoy listening to it....

There might be other songs you enjoy more etc. But if you don't, hopefully there are songs in the universe that you enjoy listening to.


So many experts on song writing, guitar playing, singing, recording, mixing, mastering etc. on the Internet.




/jarmo

So finally hearing the official audio version of the song. This feels like Oh My God Era GNR like had GNR come out with an album in 98/99 this fits right in with that era doesn't have as much of Chidem era song. First run through im not sure how i feel yet but Im gonna continue listening to it and see how it grows on me. Perhaps at first i was eh on but have since grown to really like that song. Hopefully ill feel the same about this.

I would rank them Hard Skool, Perhaps, The General, Absurd

Its painful and beutiful. In intent, it 's all I love since Appetite
Raw honesty to be a savior by sharing,brave,courage, stamina, love to humanity.

I enjoy it, though I prefer Axl  vocal without effects, as a whole the song is interesting and growing on me.

I love the song and also the fact that the 4 songs that they have released since getting back together are different.  I look forward to future releases.

Great point. I hadn't realized that. All 4 incredibly different.

Love this.

The drums go so fucking hard - craziest fills on any GNR release?

Brain is a beast, best drummer they had

It is a thing. i had a female friend who liked George Michael until his death, liked everything he released, no bad songs. One of my school friends was the same, he liked the Misfits, again, there are no bad songs. Conversely, I know lots of people that couldn't name you an album that they like from start to finish by any band. I think you just get different types of people

Monsters is such a better track than this, , better melodies, more hooks and more punch.

I agree. The verses have a nice funk vibe to them and the chorus goes rock. It still has a ChiDem feel, but its a little subdued. Like a bridge between UYI and CD.

I cant really get into the general, and I realize its because of the bridge. Some of the songs from that era have awkward  bridges and this might be the highest on that list. I love Better, but its got one as well, that last solo is so bluesy and the verses are so solid, I can forgive it.

I think Monsters wouldve made a better single. The general does feel like a b side (so its fitting), with a different bridge, a clearer mix (they really like muddying the waters with these vocal layers lately), and more reliance on real drumming over beats and loops, id dig it more. And if it were just another song on a full album, id let it slide and have less of an opinion because it would just be rounding out a track list, sitting somewhere in between a dozen other songs. Id be able to find something else to hang my hat on. This releasing one at a time makes it harder to just enjoy it, because it forces you to be more judgemental when your focus is on a single piece of work. Also, most of us come from a time when an album was an experience with highs and lows, and you ride out that whole journey. This method forces us to sit in a high or a low for six months at a time.

With all that said... thats just how i internally react to the music. Im sure a lot of us have such a big interest in music generally and Guns specifically because some songs grab you and can change you, even for a moment, on some emotional level. I think  a lot of people on this board are hoping to get back that feeling we had that first time in middle school when we heard something like estranged. But I understand the band can make whatever they want, though im the audience, the song wasnt made for me, its someone else's emotional outlet. They just happen to be willing to share it with the rest of us.


EDIT: When I said the bridge in the general is off putting, i think what i really mean to say is the pre chorus.

The song is awesome. And as many mentioned it's wonderful to have 4 totally different songs released so far. What I definitely wouldn't like to see and hear is a copy-paste to the same song with some variations and the fact that The General is different than the other 3 is a huge bonus, especially musically related. This means the band is still exploring and stepping to unknown fields nevertheless majority will say "This is not GN'R". This is great and to me it's all what music is all about. Still, I do believe that Monsters is one of the best tracks they have ever done and I can't wait to see it officially released. Hopefully soon.

I really do think the plan was to release The General and Monsters together. They really do go together. I wonder if this means it will be Atlas and Monsters next rather than Atlas/SOG. At some point these releases will wrap up, barring stuff in the vault we haven't heard (with vocals anyway). Really wish this all could have been an EP - Absurd, Hard Skool, Perhaps, The General, Monsters, Atlas Shrugged, State of Grace. But I'll take em piece by piece if need be.

Since Chinese was so varied, this could've fit on there. Same way, Street Of Dreams could've totally fit on Use Your Illusion if it had existed back then, or You Could Be Mine on Appetite.

There's this familiar thing about certain GN'R songs, without them being the same as the previously released material.





/jarmo

Just listened to the four new songs back to back and this would be a very good EP.  Don’t love Absurd, but it fits and the other three are solid and hard to pick a favorite.

in what order?

I have Better in front of the 4 since it flows into The General so well.....

1. Better
2. The General
3. Hard Skool
4. Absurd
5. Perhaps

I wish GNR still made big videos.  I could vision a very cool imagery for the General.

Something tells me a music video won't be done for the general... a simple youtube lyric video? sure.. ,  a live show footage compilation? perhaps...

a commercial music video with the band featured in it and some kind of narrative? Severely doubtful.

Agreed. What kind of video could you even make for a song about clearly horrific child abuse? I mean it could be done but I don't see it happening. I think the release as a b-side was Axl getting a very personal song released.

Definitely different from the other tracks released. Not just lyrically.

Hopefully a video is coming. I enjoyed the Perhaps video.



/jarmo

1. The General
2. Hard Skool
3. Perhaps
4. Absurd

For a band that made such big Blockbuster videos in the 90s to not really doing anything since is a bit strange to say the least,yeah they've put out a few low budget concert clips and yric videos but nnothing really creative, I know the era of  making videos for MTV is over but YouTube is possibly an even bigger platform  so  a big budget video by them would attract a lot more attention to the new music if of course is what they want.

Videos are useless in these days, plus gnr are totally irrelevant for the young generations, it really won't change a thing. The gonna have their 5 milions visuals on yt and thats it. They can't even put out songs already written and recorded 20 years ago, imagine a video, cmon now  :rofl:

Why would a b-side get a music video?

R side.

Maybe you're putting too much emphasis on which song is on what side.






/jarmo

I created a double album that is the reunion studio tracks and live versions of unreleased reunions tracks.  Hearing the reunion tracks in an album format positively adds to my appreciation for the songs GNR have released.

I couldn't figure out how to add a photo of the album.  Tracklist:

d- 01 Absurd
d- 02 Perhaps
d- 03 Hard Skool
d- 04 The General / d- Monsters
d- 05 T.V. Eye (live) 13 July 2023 Paris, France
d- 06 Whole Lotta Rosie (live) 29 November 2017 Los Angeles, USA
d- 07 Black Hole Sun (live) 20 July 2017 New York, USA
d- 08 The Seeker (live) 20 July 2017 New York, USA
d- 09 Slither (live) 8 September 2022 Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
d- 10 Sorry (live) 20 July 2017 New York, USA
d- 11 Better (live) 29 November 2017 Los Angeles, USA <First 14 seconds drop out - need to edit>
d- 12 Chinese Democracy (live) 8 September 2022 Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
d- 13 (Slash Guitar Solo - Live) 8 September 2022 Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
d- 14 Prostitute (live) 29 November 2017 Los Angeles, USA
d- 15 Madagascar (live) 29 November 2017 Los Angeles, USA
d- 16 This I Love (live) 29 January 2017 Saitama, Japan

I wanted to add Catcher In The Rye but of all the reunion versions I could find, Axl's voice sounded terrible, so I did not include it.  I titled the album "Not In This Lifetime" and the cover image is the shuttle Challenger explosion.  The back cover has the seven astronauts, their faces replaced with skulls.  A little dark, but wanted to do a call-back to when GNR wanted the Challenger image as the cover to AFD.   :)

I really liked the song, when most rock bands sound generic these days, GnR has really stood out from the others.  Which I think is a good thing, too bad they don't get praised more or get more attention in mainstream media... Then again everyone today likes Pop Country ( not real country music).

Didn't like it first listen. Started to grow on me on the second listen.  Perhaps is a stronger track,  that's probably why its  a B side

Keep listening to it…..it gets better with each listen

Theres a lot of clipping in the track, and if you examine the file further, it's heavily compressed.

Disappointing.

Man, imagine yourself 20 years ago waiting for the rolling stones being on the top of the charts  :rofl:... It's the same thing at this point. As i said before, young generations don't care and won't care about gnr new music. That's another reason axl doesn't feel the pressure of putting out new music, apart from his atrocious laziness. Plus He wasted an incredible amount of time, making the band totally irrelevant in terms of new adepts. This "new music" sounds old already (it could have been appealing in the 2000s n maybe he could have caught new ears at the time). If u add his meh todays performances, you can't expect any attention, really, even with a true great masterpiece. It's just us  :peace.

as usual your post doesn't make any sense, based on nothing but what's in your head.

good thing is, we don't need to argue with you, we just have to face the facts :

1) there's a lot of young people at the shows.
2) if it was "just us" you won't have millions of views on YouTube and millions of streaming on Spotify



anyway without transition, do we know how many songs have been worked on by Slash & Duff during Covid?

No!!!!

Yes!!!!


Sometimes I wonder how much/many people are influenced by other people's opinions.

If you're told something isn't cool/good/interesting etc., how many are likely to keep that in mind and allow it to color their own opinion.


I remember a time when GN'R was not cool at all. And then suddenly people started buying Greatest Hits like crazy. It had gone from cool, to uncool and back to kinda cool again.





/jarmo

I believe his no was to this question, do we know how many songs have been worked on by Slash & Duff during Covid?

I got a chuckle out of that.  I listen to the Dead.  A fan base that never cared if the music was cool.  A band that never care, just kept playing the music.  You're either on the bus or you're not and most of us are not sure who is.  The bus comes by and you don't get on, don't care.   :hihi:

Correct on my No….was answering the Covid question….we don’t know how many songs were worked on.

Random, pull it out of the air, I'm going with 8.  8)

Compare those milions to the ones who are selling nowadays. 5 milions for each "new" song on yt for a band like gnr is nothing.
The mythological masterpiece (in gnr hardcore fans mind) The General has barely 400 k views after 4 days. You think these are good numbers for a hystorical band?  PHARRELL WILLIAMS which nowadays is irrelevant if compared to some years ago has 600 k in 2 days. Pink 500 k in 4 days... and im talking about,again, random well known, but "old", artists.... Dua lipa has 45 m in 1 month...I make no sense, sure man, sure. Even if we stay in the "mainstream" rock METALLICA has 20 milion views in 1 year for Lux Æterna.
When i say "it's only us" I'm talking about the old fans and, ofc, some new entry, but that's it. GNR is AFD and UYI 1 & 2 for the 99% of the people who won't give a fuck about new songs in general, especially the way they put them out. The history of the band has been tainted too much in a sense (for right or wrong reasons), people just lost interest.
A video for any song won't make any difference...perhaps has a video and still has 5m views like the other songs. These are just facts, but keep believing whatever you want. And when you talk, speak for yourself, you're not entitled to say "we", don't think you count more than one.

I know. Just messing with you.

“There’s a handful of those songs that we absolutely fixed up and did when we were in lockdown,” Slash, October 2022.







/jarmo

Do you know what they say about people who live in glass houses?

I have never ever criticized or diminished anyone on the forum, I have always spoken for myself, I have always expressed my ideas and defended them. So you're clearly not talking about me....

ok, so the right question is: does Slash have big hands?  :hihi:

Bro you literally said “we” in your post and talk about people as a group that we all belong to hahahaha

Haha.  Fair point.

I really liked the 'Perhaps' video.  But that tune's tone and vibe also sort of allowed for concert footage and good times shown.

This one...not so much.

song is fine mix is fine enjoy it

Aerosmith did a video for Janie's Got a Gun.  I don't think Pat Benatar did for Hell is for Children.  If you don't put it out there, it remains in the secret world.  Then on the other hand while you're trying to make the public aware, you have victims who are listening/watching.  And in this case you have a victim talking.  

It's REALLY okay if there's no video for this one.  But if there has to be one, Axl should be involved in making it.  I haven't really listen to the song that closely to put together a story for me.  I know a lot about the subject matter.  Not that it's not talked about or worked with but it has to be a two way conversation for it to say what Axl wants it to say.  It can't be left to somebody else.  And it's really okay if there's not one or the song doesn't make a big social statement.  Songs reach the people they need to reach when they need to be found.

I actually found my way to the GNR forums when I was doing research on child abuse.  I've been around a long time, not for further research, it pops up from time to time.

The interesting thing about this song is that many friends who like other bands liked the song. Those who like Guns just found it strange that it didn't have a cool solo. I honestly loved it.

Interesting observation.

Id rank the new songs.

1. Perhaps
2. Absurd
3. The General
4. Hard Skool

You misread i wasn't the one sayin' "we"...

ok let's play


1. The General
2. Hard Skool
3. Perhaps
4. ABSUЯD

It's fairly common and for other reasons as well. For example, the novel Ulysses by James Joyce is an incomprehensible turd, but a lot of English majors and scholars I know are too afraid to say it aloud in fear that their colleagues will find them stupid.

Anyway, I really like this new song. It reminds me a bit of a cross/mix between something off CD and the first 3 minutes of "Foundations of Decay" (the last My Chemical Romance song that came out).

For me its

1. Hard skool
2. Perhaps
3. Absurd
4. The general.

1. Perhaps
2. Hard Skool
3. The General
4. Absurd

1. The General
2. Perhaps
3. Absurd
4. Hard Skool

1.  Absurd
2.  Hard Skool
3.  Perhaps
4. The General
5.  Monsters

I like that everyone so far has a different order.

Means that the songs are all quality.

Could it not be that there isn't a great song that stands? These songs are leftovers in any case, so it makes sense. And it makes more sense now that CD 2 never saw the light. You get used to these songs very quickly tbh. I think perhaps is the more rounded song. Hard Skool is the classic filler. Absurd is the unconventional filler. The general is musically poor. All the songs have good/great ideas if we talk about vocals and vocal melodies (of course, these are axl's songs). But to me it's really hard to find something that it's up to par with the other gnr songs (CD included). I think he should put out the songs as they were and start writing something new with slash and duff at this point, knowing that they don't add almost anything to these songs.

Hard Skool would not have sounded out of place on UYI - easily fits in with something like Perfect Crime.

Arguably Perhaps as well. Do we call Don't Cry a leftover because it didn't make AFD?

If you don't distinguish a well rounded song witch catchy refrain, good lyrics, great vocals (not only from the main singer) great solo, bridge, outro etc etc with a basically mono riff songs with 300 vocal layers on it (that's the style of these new songs) i don't know what else to say.  Sure they would have fit , but again, perfect crime is not civil war or november rain as well as hard school is not better or this i love. You don't build an album around those songs, you use those songs to complete the album. If a good album like CD almost sell nothing 20 years ago, imagine an album made of these "new" songs what would sell today, even if slash and duff are back. That's my opinion ofc

Omg we get it, you don't like it.

1. The General
2. Perhaps
3. Hard Skool
4. Absurd (Only included for completeness)

Some people like to pass their opinions as facts...

I never said you would build an album around them though, did I? You called them leftovers from CD2, I pointed out those two tracks wouldn't have sounded out of place among UYI cuts.

And in your own words you agreed. "Sure they would have fit..."

Not every Guns song is going to be November Rain or even Civil War

All of these songs fit GNR…they have consistently changed and progressed..I knew a lot of people that didn’t like the Illusion albums because they weren’t Appetite.  I love AC/DC but after awhile it is all too similar.  I love this band for the diversity of songs.  Love it or hate it they are taking chances.

100% correct. But i was answering to rebel about the "all quality" songs statement, which is not necessarily true.

Let's say this, you can like shit music or good music, you can't argue about that.

Now, a leftover is a song which didn't make the cut.  We have 3 options:

1) the song was incomplete
2) the song didn't fit the album
3) the song didn't add anything to the album in terms of quality compared to the other songs, and it would have been just a +1 song, basically a filler.

(and then it could be a mix of these 3 points, right?)

Knowing well that the song were completed and fit the album (like we said) 15 years ago, what's the remaining point? Yep, right. I mean I'm listening to people calling the general a masterpiece like estranged, when the author himself put it on a b-side. Cmon now.

I kinda feel these songs suffer from lack of structure and to compensate that we have a lot of layers, basically vocal layers all coming from axl (not even from melissa or duff, for example).

You can like that, ofc, but it wasn't my point: I like perhaps for example, still consider it a very basic song. I think they can do a lot more, and after 7 years this is a little poor . In the same time frame they made AFD UYI LIES. I don't expect something like that ofc ;D (i never expected anything tbh) but time goes bye guys...

it's a R-side because it's not a single for the general public.
Perhaps is more traditional in terms of songwriting and more appealing to people who don't listen to music often, with limited tastes and/or limited culture.

not to insult or diminish people who don't like it, but that's what it is.

how many people around here listen to Post-Rock? Musique concrète?
but everyone knows and can appreciate The Beatles. so yeah, it's a bit different, less accessible for the fanbase, and that's why it's not on Chinese, and that's why it's a "b-side".

imagine the reactions if the song made it on CD back then... ::)

Your definition clearly validates songs like Don't Cry, November Rain, You Could Be Mine etc. as being leftovers.

How do you decide whether or not any of these four "fit" the album? Just like they saved November Rain, Don't Cry etc. for later, there was no way of them putting every song on Chinese Democracy unless it was a double album. I get that you don't like the songs, but come on. Stop making up these silly reasons.




/jarmo

They are...Could you REALLY imagine november rain or don't cry on AFD, a pure solid hard rock album? I don't, while I can imagine YCBM on that album. But don't be naive, a musician knows the value of his songs, these are not silly reasons, these are realistic reasons (but ofc like u said there is even the 4th option, like you already have a good amount of good songs on the album so you save them for the next one, but i don't think it's really the case of these cd2 songs). Plus i just said i like perhaps, and i can find good things in each of these songs. I said somewhere else that atlas is the only 1 song who is musically REALLY interesting, and i'm not linkin that to my personal taste, i could even hate that song for what it matters. You guys don't have the habit to think on multiple levels, i just don't like talking about things like they are black or white only. Just this. But I don't want to bore you any further, enjoy the songs  :peace:

LMAO, The General is a masterpiece.

Oh wait, I've just read 10 whiney bitchy complaints about it, how it sucks, mix is bad, it's a 5 as opposed to a 12 digital quality speaking.

Yep, still a masterpiece as it enters my ears dances around my brain then flows through all of my being.

One of the magnificent things about music is no one's opinion weighs more than another. Music, like beauty, lies in the ears and eyes of the beholder.

Here's my ranking:
1. The General
2. Perhaps
3. Absurd
4. Hard Skool

Option 4. I don't feel The General was ever likely to be a CD cut, and I suspect it was meant to be paired with Monsters all along, on the follow-up that never happened (even in 2023 they leaked together, and were registered together as far as writing credits, as "The General and Monsters"). That would have needed two album slots. So I'm guessing it was intentional to leave them off CD, if due to length, rather than your other three options.

As for being a basic song - I agree. It is, but again I think that might be intentional. And it doesn't mean it's not quality. Fans may have built The General into a monster in their minds, but it's clearly a more personal song, very raw, about horrific subject matter. I doubt Axl ever expected "Daddy don't I swear I won't" to be sung by fans nodding their heads while driving in their car. You'd have to somehow ask him but it might just come down to artistic choice.

The more I think about it also the more Fernando's comment about the general being a "monster" feels like a pointed comment about who "The General" is. But that's just a guess.

Here's my ranking:
1. The General
2. Perhaps
3. Hard Skool
4. Absurd

When the time comes for them to release Monsters it will be my choice 1, I love it

I'd love to know who is responsible for leaving Monsters on the shelf. Best song since Better.

Exactly, but you don't really see people referring to those songs as leftovers in order to discredit anyone who enjoys them.

Unlike what you're doing.




/jarmo

They’re not leftovers, but they are songs from a different era. You can’t compare these songs to anything from illusions or appetite.  Chinese democracy as itself is an amazing album.,  what we’re hearing now are some of the material that wasn’t released from that era with some input from Duff and Slash.    I think people don’t express themselves properly when they’re saying this doesn’t sound like Guns N’ Roses but case in point look at the song angry from the Rolling Stones. That sounds like the stones and it’s a great song that will stand the test of time.  Perhaps is the most Guns N’ Roses sounding song released of the bunch thus far.   when we actually hear something that is written by this current band , things will sound different.   Personally, since they’re going into the vault, seemingly I wish they would just released a Polished version of just another Sunday..

Why isn’t anyone including Shadow Of Your Love l, in any lists here?      Of all the material GNR have released since CD, I prefer it the best. 

Because it has been released as a b-side twice before?

There is a difference between b-sides and outtakes. These four songs were outtakes by definition from the Chinese sessions. These are all album worthy songs like Don’t Cry, November Rain and Back Off Bitch. B sides are songs you generally don’t put on albums. There is a difference and I am sure Monsters and Atlas and a bunch more fully fleshed out songs were intended for Chinese 2.  It didn’t work out so they are throwing us dogs some bones.

I’ve never heard Monsters. What’s all the fuss about?

There's no fuss.... another demo that sounds like an idea more than a song :P

i agree soul monster is good love the studio song but i love hear the demo i'm sure it a different version

I personally prefer it to The General. The bridge is nasty and I think that's why a lot of people think it's what Soul Monster became; Axl mentioned in one of the old online chats he sung it on Christmas Eve and the bridge was "Imo the meanest section of anything I've sung to date." The SESAC listing for The General is actually under "The General and Monsters" and it appears like they were meant to go together. Marco Beltrami's work can be heard in both tracks, which also kind of ties them together.

It's a catchier song that you can sing along to.

No question it's what Axl was talking about there. He talked about the verses having a Black Sabbath vibe and the bridge being mean as hell. Monsters fits that description perfectly. Song titles change over time, as we saw with Jackie Chan > Checkmate > Hard Skool and others.

True, I've kind of come around to it, but we won't know for sure til the band confirms. Though "checkmate" I don't believe was ever an official title. Allegedly it was someone being witty about having a leaked track. The clip was released as "checkmate" when they were accused of lying about it. At least that's the story I've heard.

I also really want to know what Me & My Elvis is with that in mind. Because I do like that instrumental a lot, and if it's not Soul Monster, it needs a better name than Me & My Elvis.

Exactly. Different versions were released officially already.




/jarmo

For those who ordered the CD single I received shipping confirmation late on the 18th. Even with the time difference to Japan that's actually a day early.

That's impossible, because.... Management. Delays. Everything is their fault etc etc.

 :hihi:




/jarmo

Correct...Management purposely delayed to reunion until 2016 as well.  All their fault.

I have #2 and #4 flipped here.

But I think the biggest gap/drop off (whatever you want to call it) is between 'Perhaps' and whatever you have #2. 

Just think that was so far and away the best effort.

Hahaha.

I have it on a GNR singles playlist.  Because I like it?  NO.  Think its a total misfire.

But to a completist asshole, which I am...it needs to be there.

Hahaha.  Seriously.

Strange thing about this fanbase.  They build stuff up based on myth and legend.  "The General" was one of those.

I mean...what did you know?  It was just words.  I mean, if you told me years before I heard it, GNR had a song called 'Madagascar', I have said...OK.  then what?  What do I do with that info right now?

Look at 'Prostitute.  WAY talked up before arrival.  People were pumped.  I happen to really like it, but it doesn't like the reaction matched up to when it was just a rumor.

I gotta be real.

I came at this tune pretty hard, guns hot.  But it has grown on me.

Things like no hook and no solo still annoy me.  But it's actually a pretty well put together production, overall.

Funny you mention those.

People, who went to shows, had heard parts of both without knowing. The intro used at the shows in 2006 was from The General. The piano intro before November Rain was from Prostitute.







/jarmo

Heh, I never noticed the Prostitute thing, but I can hear it now

Holy shit!  That's wild. 

Great call.  Gonna go dig that one up.

Please help me out with that NR intro, I can't seem to find it. What year? It must be before CD came out. I found the rock am ring intro, but I cannot find the resemblance...

If you listen to the small piano bit beforehand, you can hear it. The 'for what you might lose' bit just before november rain starts. There's lots of 2006 on youtube

Thanks, there is no way I would put those two together :rofl:

something that has been puzzling me and that is the last drumming outro part of the song.  Why am I not getting proper snare sound out of Brian´s drums vs the other choruses and outro chorus.

oh shit, forgot to state, but whatever been said, I fuckin´love this song, listened to it at least 100 times and god damn it is good, ducking masterpiece.

https://youtu.be/2yNHOoPi97o?si=Z-eEqzPaEnY2nysl

Vinyl rip. I think this sounds a lot better than the digital release. Especially bass is a lot clearer in the mix.

Amazing.  You can hear the snare in the end part.

He did it many times during 2002/07
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWbiOtENE90 53:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AValGzOkrg

Got the Japanese single today. Still no Vinyl. No response from UMG either. No notice that it even shipped. Japanese single is cool though. No issues there.

Got my vinyl yesterday.

Got my Japanese cd as well last week. :)



/jarmo

Does anyone actually play their CDs or vinyls?

I got my Perhaps 7" before Christmas, but haven't actually taken it out of the plastic packaging.

I rip my CD and throw it on a home media server plus an MP3 player for the car. CD sits on the shelf as a collectable

Does anyone know when they plan to release Monsters?
I’m kind of hoping Slash redoes that solo because he was amazing on part 1 (The General).

No we don't know. And I'm pretty sure the leak is the final version, so I wouldn't expect a different solo.

I've had my vinyl for a bit and just today wired speakers into an old Sony receiver I picked up from a friend.


The vinyl is by far the best/cleanest version. Even better than the imsorry(AWOS) remaster out there floating around.


A great song just got better in my world!