Libanon - Israel - Iran - Syria - 3rd world war (no politics, promise!)

[gilld1]

What are you talking about, SLC? ?Iran hates us because we are so pretty! ?It has nothing to do with the propping up of puppet regimes, incursions for oil, or generations of greed. ?

In some ways countries like Sausi and Egypt and Jordasn may like to see Iran get blasted. ?First because Iran is mostly Shia and the others are Sunni and secondly because Iran's heritage is Persian versus Arab for the others. ?There is no love lost for Iran in the region. ?Where is Sadam when you need him!?

[SLCPUNK]

When Hesbolah kidnapped two IDF soldiers, Israel had every opportunity to react with a measured response. Blowing up the entire infrastructure (and killing civilians including children) of Lebanon lacked that measure.

As I said before, Israel are restoring their deterrence capacity.

As I said before they went way out of line. Killing civilians, is an overblown response.


 

What are you talking about, SLC?  Iran hates us because we are so pretty!  It has nothing to do with the propping up of puppet regimes, incursions for oil, or generations of greed. 

Yea, they all do look alike don't they? Over here we are all different looking and oh so pretty. I'm almost jealous of myself as I see my reflection bounce back off this computer monitor.......

Or nothing to do with overthrowing their democratically elected official and installing a brutal dictator in his place. Nah.......

[jameslofton29]

Where is Sadam when you need him!?

That is actually a really good point. At some point in the future, politicians,historians,etc. will most likely look back on the Iraq invasion and see that the big mistake wasn't just as simple as "invading the wrong country", but changing the balance of power in the Middle East, which could have dire consequences in the years/decades ahead.

A few good points, SLC. We invade a country WE claim has enough chemical weapons to kill the world 4 times over, while ignoring countries threatening to blow everyone off the map. If Iran had been dealt with in 2003, we obviously wouldn't be having this problem now. But we had smaller and more insignificant fish to fry.

As I said before they went way out of line. Killing civilians, is an overblown response.

Civilian deaths happen in every conflict. There's no way around it. Were they concerned about hitting the WTC full of civilians? Funny how when they kill civilians its ok, but when the military does it its a travesty. They kill civilians on purpose, we dont. Big fucking difference.

[gilld1]

Israel is reacting in a very measured way. ?They are measuring how big a building is and then find an appropriate bomb for its size.

I find it hard to judge Israel though. ?It would be like the Mexican coming here and blowing us up on a regular basis instead of just taking our jobs!!

[gilld1]

On a serious note, the US helped Iran on both borders.  We took out Sadam and also the Taliban.  Both were rivals of Iran and their brand of Islam and their intentions to dominate the region.

[judaskennedy]

the third world war is unavoidable- any one ever hear of Mubas?

[gilld1]

No, enlighten please.

[Slashead]

The youth of Iran will get rid of Ahmadinejad's reactionary regim. Most of young people in Iran don't hate Western culture. On the contrary, they are fascinated by it.

[judaskennedy]

Nostradamus says the 3rd antichrist will be born in the middle east and bring out ww3-   his name will not be mubas-  but something very close.      the first was Napone or something like that-  turned out to be Napoleon, the second was named Hister (guess who that turned out to be).   and mubas is the 3rd yet to happen,

[-Jack-]

Nostradamus says the 3rd antichrist will be born in the middle east and bring out ww3-   his name will not be mubas-  but something very close.      the first was Napone or something like that-  turned out to be Napoleon, the second was named Hister (guess who that turned out to be).   and mubas is the 3rd yet to happen,

Mubas...


 

[judaskennedy]

Mubas said backwards sounds like  Sadum (saddam?)

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

Israel is reacting in a very measured way. ?They are measuring how big a building is and then find an appropriate bomb for its size.

I find it hard to judge Israel though. ?It would be like the Mexican coming here and blowing us up on a regular basis instead of just taking our jobs!!

and israel would be the mexicans ?

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

Alrightie, lets start again on good bases.

First, i would like to hear you guys on the provocation matter. I personnaly think that we cannot talk about provocation in any ways, because the situation in the middle east has been going for decades, and at that point you cannot just go back to a specific event. Everybody's faulty.

The HZB did kidnapp some israeli soldiers, but they were retaliation of what happend in 2000.
in 2000, the HZB pushed Tsahal back into israel after years of Occupation. At that point, Israel and HZB arranged some hostages exchange, but it didnt go as smooth as it should have. What happend on july the 12th is a just the continuation of the tension.

Israel has occupied south lebanon. Israel still control the Farm Area in south lebanon, and according to Lebanon prime minister has planted a lot of mines at the frontier INSIDE lebanon and do not want to give the map.


Israel has the right to defend itself against the HZB attacks.
I give you that.
Israel is hated by most of his neighbors and therefore is in a tensed situation. yes.

What are the open objectives of this "war" ?
1 - get the 2 prisoners back
2 - try to destroy HZB

1 - (what happened to that other prisoner kidnapped by the hamas in palestine? forgotten?)
How on earth do you deal with a hostage situation by bombing the place? These guys must have missed some SWAT classes.

2 - again, history has shown us that you cannot deal with terrorism in open warfare.
even nuking the country won't solve it. Terrorism grows on hate.
as "axlforprez" said The Pentagon is one thing...but a building full of innocents with not one thread of linkage to aggression is appalling and horriffic .
why do i have the feeling that THIS IS excatly what i was saying.
Israel has killed 200 civilians so far, and maybe 2 have some linkage to the HZB.
Same thing.
Israel is acting the way al-quaida do.
Killing innocents because they cannot reach the real objectives.


The HZB. Is a terrorist organisation, alright. But unlike al-quaida (which HZB chief despise), the HZB is only concerned about the sovereignty of lebanon. They work as terrorist, yes. But any official paper will confirm that every action they have taken is firmly related to the protection of Lebanon. There is no terror game, in a sense of fighting the western society or fighting israel for the heck of it.


Moreover, i've stated several time, the HZB is controlled, funded and supported by Syria and Iran.


i can understand you guys views when you're happy Israel is giving HZB the taste of its own medicine ... but right now Israel is just giving Lebanon the taste of Israel's desperation.
Tsahal has been humiliated, and this war is, strategicaly, a way of making up with the past mistakes.

[jameslofton29]

Wat-Ever, I dont think going back to a certain point in the timeline is a way to understand whats going on. Why stop in 2000? Maybe 1995 and the assassination of Yitzak Rhabin. Or 1983 and the bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon(which strangely Reagan let go unavenged, unless covert action was really taken). Should Israel go the Reagan route and just pull everything out and head home, and maybe do covert ops over time? Or do you face the problem head on? Either way is very risky. Pull back, and you risk even more kidnappings/attacks. Intensify the conflict, and you risk a much wider conflict that could easily start World War III. The extreme danger of this conflict is that lines are already being drawn in the sand, and sides are being taken. You have the US, Israel, UK(maybe) on one side, and on the other is the Palestinians, Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Russia, China(maybe), and a bunch of Euro countries opposed to the US/Israeli position. This could turn into a global conflict within hours(under the right circumstances).

To be honest, I dont think there is a way to understand(or define) what is going on, and what exactly sparked the confrontation. Its open to many interpretations, and the so called "experts" are all giving opinions. The one thing we can all agree on is that its basically thousands of years of history reaching a boiling point, and the hotter it gets, the more countries we will see get involved. Hell, the UN wants an international force there. That right there is a serious mistake. Can you imagine the ramifications of some disaster falling on that international force consisting of troops of all nationalities?

[Slashead]

As I said before, Israel are restoring their deterrence capacity.

As I said before they went way out of line.

 

It's a matter of opinion.

[Sakib]

Guys and gals, these are all very good points.? I enjoy civil discussions, I think we're doing well!? Someone mentioned "the problem with Islam," and I'd like to correct that to fundamentalist Islam.? Fun"dumb"entalist anything is a danger to civilization.? That goes for Christians, Muslims, Jews, whatever.?

Also, someone mentioned, "what about the 1,000 prisoners Israel is holding?"? "Why aren't they released?"? Hmmm, my guess?? Because a week from the release they'll be targeting cafes, hotels, bah mitzvahs, etc.? That's why.?

Someone also mentioned a 50-50 land split.? This is preposterous.? It will happen as soon as the western U.S. is given back to Mexico, as soon as the American Indian is given the rest of the U.S., and Scandinavia returns its land to the Vikings.?

Oh, and btw, please don't say all Americans love violence and war.? Personally, I agreed with the Afghanistan war and the hunt for Osama Bin Laden...I disagreed with the Iraq War after I learned the entire justification was built upon non-existent weapons of mass destruction, bad intell.? A majority of Americans disagree with pres bush's policies as well.

 

Seriously, the Lebanese, private citizen and police and military alike have to come together to realize the biggest threat to their society is not Israel, it is the terrorist scum that is ignored that lives next door or down the street from them.? I believe the sub-title to GNR's Locomotive is the word I'm getting at here.? ?? ? ? ...complicity.? ?

under 18s women and children targetting cafes? ridiculous.

btw, if Palestinian movies off his/her property Israelis own it. Neighbours hate it because of the propoganda around israel. And muslim countries "apparently muslim" do help. Look at pakistan

[Slashead]

under 18s women and children targetting cafes? ridiculous.

If they are in jail, it must be for some reason. Plus, there's already been Palestinian kamikazes under 18.

[Axl4Prez2004]

In response to SLCPunk's cartoon that featured illegal terrorism and legal militarism...seriously, don't you see the difference in one man attacking a building with only innocent civilians (terrorism) and planes dropping bombs on hostile enemies who are hiding amongst civilians? ?Do you honestly think the innocent civilians who have Hezbollah in their building don't know it? ?I'm not saying these civilians deserve to die, but goddamn, if a gun-toting maniac running from the cops runs into my apartment building (or a couple dozen of them do) then I am getting the fuck out of there! ?Hmm, let's see, I go to work every day...my neighbor always has males aged 13 to 27 years old going in and out with large packages...he never goes to work...he's got friends who wear ski-masks as not to be recognized...come on!

For this matter to get any better, a change in philosophy amongst the Arab community must take hold. ?It's time average citizens give peace a chance. ?HannaHat, maybe you are right about the well-entrenched hatred of Israel as being the factor that prevents average citizens from not putting up with the terrorist scum in their lands. ?Maybe a U.N. force in the region to crush Hezbollah is necessary. ?Sanctions against Syria and Iran for funding the terror war machine will be needed as well.
Unfortunately, I just don't see this happening. ?The only olive branches that seem to come from the other side are wrapped around explosives and packaged as suicide-bombs. ?

PS Slashead just answered Sakib's latest comment.  Slashead is right.  Aiding and abetting terrorists is just as bad as committing the act itself (which btw yes there have been and currently are, many underage and female terrorists).  The Israeli forces may have it on tape these bitches are close with the male bombers.  They won't talk?  Guess what?  They won't be released. 

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

In response to SLCPunk's cartoon that featured illegal terrorism and legal militarism...seriously, don't you see the difference in one man attacking a building with only innocent civilians (terrorism) and planes dropping bombs on hostile enemies who are hiding amongst civilians? ?Do you honestly think the innocent civilians who have Hezbollah in their building don't know it? ?I'm not saying these civilians deserve to die, but goddamn, if a gun-toting maniac running from the cops runs into my apartment building (or a couple dozen of them do) then I am getting the fuck out of there! ?Hmm, let's see, I go to work every day...my neighbor always has males aged 13 to 27 years old going in and out with large packages...he never goes to work...he's got friends who wear ski-masks as not to be recognized...come on!

For this matter to get any better, a change in philosophy amongst the Arab community must take hold. ?It's time average citizens give peace a chance. ?HannaHat, maybe you are right about the well-entrenched hatred of Israel as being the factor that prevents average citizens from not putting up with the terrorist scum in their lands. ?Maybe a U.N. force in the region to crush Hezbollah is necessary. ?Sanctions against Syria and Iran for funding the terror war machine will be needed as well.
Unfortunately, I just don't see this happening. ?The only olive branches that seem to come from the other side are wrapped around explosives and packaged as suicide-bombs. ?

PS Slashead just answered Sakib's latest comment.  Slashead is right.  Aiding and abetting terrorists is just as bad as committing the act itself (which btw yes there have been and currently are, many underage and female terrorists).  The Israeli forces may have it on tape these bitches are close with the male bombers.  They won't talk?  Guess what?  They won't be released. 

I dont want to support terrorism
but if we wanna have a clear, objective thinking here we cannot fall under sentimalism and clich?s.
i have in the past, used the example of Star Wars, where, the alliance are the heroes. guerrilla is a way of fighting against evil.
yes, if you lived for 20 years in Gaza, you would see terrorism as your only help, the only thing you have. it'd be wrong. but you, yes you, would think that way.


but more importantly, we have to STOP COMPARING suffering and violence
we have to stop weighting the dead lebanese against israel
stop trying to judge what's worst, bombing civilians or blowing up a caf?

both of these actions go nowhere

terrorism lead nowhere. and the people hungry in Gaza feel it
bombing cities lead nowhere, and Israel will understand it in a few weeks, when things calm down, and nothing's changed
just as the USA in iraqj, they will fail. cause they're going the wrong way.


you see, we have to entities using the wrong methods. and they're stuck
- wrong methods, cause they started that way, and they're inter-dependent, therefore can't get out of the loop
- wrong methods because external pressure are leading them that way
---- > iran and syria advocating violence for palestine and lebanon
---- > the usa not stoping israel frenzy

you see.

now one question, and i'd like some answers.
for the israel lovers here
can you state some of the bad points about israel, whats wrong with their policy, their action, they're world strategy ... you know, see if it's not black/white in your heads ...


thanks  PEACE

and for once, i'm proud to be in FRANCE, no matter what you say, FRANCE recent decisions rock ahahah

[The Dog]

In response to SLCPunk's cartoon that featured illegal terrorism and legal militarism...seriously, don't you see the difference in one man attacking a building with only innocent civilians (terrorism) and planes dropping bombs on hostile enemies who are hiding amongst civilians? ?Do you honestly think the innocent civilians who have Hezbollah in their building don't know it? ?I'm not saying these civilians deserve to die, but goddamn, if a gun-toting maniac running from the cops runs into my apartment building (or a couple dozen of them do) then I am getting the fuck out of there! ?Hmm, let's see, I go to work every day...my neighbor always has males aged 13 to 27 years old going in and out with large packages...he never goes to work...he's got friends who wear ski-masks as not to be recognized...come on!

For this matter to get any better, a change in philosophy amongst the Arab community must take hold. ?It's time average citizens give peace a chance. ?HannaHat, maybe you are right about the well-entrenched hatred of Israel as being the factor that prevents average citizens from not putting up with the terrorist scum in their lands. ?Maybe a U.N. force in the region to crush Hezbollah is necessary. ?Sanctions against Syria and Iran for funding the terror war machine will be needed as well.
Unfortunately, I just don't see this happening. ?The only olive branches that seem to come from the other side are wrapped around explosives and packaged as suicide-bombs. ?

PS Slashead just answered Sakib's latest comment.? Slashead is right.? Aiding and abetting terrorists is just as bad as committing the act itself (which btw yes there have been and currently are, many underage and female terrorists).? The Israeli forces may have it on tape these bitches are close with the male bombers.? They won't talk?? Guess what?? They won't be released.?

yes, if you lived for 20 years in Gaza, you would see terrorism as your only help, the only thing you have. it'd be wrong. but you, yes you, would think that way.

That is ridiculous.  violence is "your only help"?  It should be the last resort.  do they really think an established state is going to cow-tow to a blown up bus or cafe?  Did MLK have to resort to violence after centuries of slavery?  Did Ghandi?  Unless you can win the fight, violence will NEVER solve a thing.  Trust me, if palestine had marched peacefully, staged rallys (maybe a benefit concert like free tibet or something like that even) the world would be on their side.  People don't have sympathy for dead bodies and blood splattered streets/cafes.  If you want to argue israel has been putting down the palestinian peope and making them suffer then show that, talk bout it, don't respond to it with bombs and missles.

That is such a cop out, such a BS excuse for all the recent bloodshed.  EVERYONE has a voice and with todays global communication with the internet and satellites and 24 hour news networks its even easier. 

and instead of supporting these terror groups, other arab nations should work together, work with the UN to PEACEFULLY get concessions.  violence as the only answer is a joke.