WHO WOULD JESUS KILL?

[N.I.B]

I can't agree dude, check out this story.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050828/ap_on_re_us/soldier_funeral_protests

I agree that banging drums is annoying and disrespectful, but christians protesting at a dead guy's funeral -- in the presence of his grief stricken relatives -- by yelling "god hates fags!" and "burn in hell fags!" is below the scumbag level.

thats just sad...

[POPmetal]

I can't agree dude, check out this story.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050828/ap_on_re_us/soldier_funeral_protests

I agree that banging drums is annoying and disrespectful, but christians protesting at a dead guy's funeral -- in the presence of his grief stricken relatives -- by yelling "god hates fags!" and "burn in hell fags!" is below the scumbag level.

Yes, that is even lower. Those people don't know anything about being Christians.

[Tied-Up]

Wow... I'm actually able to move from page to page without a 4 minute wait... so I guess I'll respond now to some of the comments made... first up... some that were made about my condesending tone...

some of your condescending statements:


Quote from: Tied-Up on August 23, 2005, 08:42:38 PM
Both of those gods (new and old testament) suck ass.?

Quote from: Tied-Up on August 24, 2005, 01:38:07 PM
I think that most religion is a farce

Well, the first comment was made in jest, because there was a bit of a debate about the "god of the new testament" vs. the "god of the old testament" ... so basically I just stated simply that they both suck ass, (which is my opinion, I am entitled to my own opinion, am I not?) and that I prefer to worship Axl... followed by the? ? It wasn't meant to be condesending, and quite honestly, the only people I can see that would be offended by such a statement made in jest would be right wing nut jobs.? And for those who are offended by my last comment... probably should be offended.

The second comment is another opinion, not a condensending remark.? I do believe that most religion is a farce, designed to manipulate and brainwash the minds of humans.? I believe that religion is a tool designed for, and used by the weak, because they need something more than what life has to offer them.? The weak choose to hide inside this shelter and live their lives according to some dated doctrine in the hopes that after they die, they might have something better, while wasting the great life that has been given to them.

That's my belief.? If you find my belief offensive and condesending, perhaps that is something that you might want to reflect upon, because I'm not going to apologize for believing the way I do, any more than you're going to apologize for believing the way you do.? If my beliefs are condesending to you, then you should have no problem in my thinking your beliefs are condesending to me... and hey, if you can continue to condesend me by believing as you do... then, you better get ready for some condescension to be served your way as well.

Quote from: Bridge on August 26, 2005, 08:56:31 AM
Quote from: POPmetal on August 26, 2005, 05:33:53 AM
but even if you interpret it that way, there still isn't any intentional malice in her statement.

So what?? Condescensions dont have to be intentional.? Ive met a million christians who deign to me about what I should believe and how much better my life would be if I were like THEM.? Is that condescending?? YES.? Are they like that intentionally?? Not really.? It becomes natural, or should I say habitual, when you join the faith.? They feel a need to tell you that you cant know peace or understand jesus or anything of the kind unless you're a card-carrying member of the faith, and that statement is blanket, presumptuous, and yes, condescending, whether the malice was intentional or not.


The point of my post was: don't accuse others of being condescending when you're doing the same thing. That said, there's a world of difference between what you described as condescending and someone just being rude and saying 'your god sucks ass.'

Actually, I was first accused of being condesending by Rocket Queen.? I was merely pointing out that she was just as guilty of what she was accusing me of being.? And then I merely pointed out where she was being condesending as well as blatantly contradictory in her posts.

Again, my comment about your god sucks ass... while I do continue to hold the opinion, it was made in jest.? Prior to delving deep into this debate, I tried to keep things light and fun.

Like rocket queen, you need to brush up on your vocabulary.? An atheist is someone who denounces god and refuses to listen to accept the possibility that there could be a god.? I repeatedly said I'd believe anything if you proved it to me.? I will accept proof, an atheist will not.

I don't actually consider myself an atheist... I don't think that atheists would refuse to listen to accept the possibility, however, do bear in mind that when you find an atheist... I can ASSURE? you they've heard all the 'witnessing' from christians they can probably stand, so they probably won't really want to listen, becuase... they've heard it all before.

 I've seen atheist friends being witnessed to in public, with HANDS ON prayers... how terribly embarrassing, insulting and intrusive!? And christians wonder why those who don't follow their faith find them to be meddling, presumptious assholes. ?Fortunately, since I wear an amulet around my neck, they take one look at me and they back away. ?Maybe they think that by laying their hands on me, they'll be steeped with EVIL! ? ?

Unfortunately, I seem to have met many christians who cant distinguish an atheist from an agnostic.? They feel anyone who doesn't believe christianity must either be an atheist or a satanist.? OR maybe they just flat out don't know what either word means.? Either way, an athetist I am not, and you (once again) ignored whatever parts you felt like ignoring in order to attempt a point.

This goes for any religion outside of the realms of christianity, including muslim, buddhist, taoist, pagan... etc etc.? Christians are CONDESENDING in their belief that they are the only RIGHT ones.
 

You should probably stop posting like how I did

Wow... you were gone for what?? less than a day?? I was gone longer than that, and I didn't profess to bow out of the debate.

but someone who can turn the bible into something wrong and bad obviously doesnt know what it's really about, doesnt even come close, their eyes are open but they dont see a thing, their ears are open but they dont hear a thing, so you are just arguing with someone who doesnt know both sides before making their decisions and preachings, even though they think they do

Nahhhhh... I was WRONG... you AREN'T condesending... NOOOOOO!!! Not in the least.? (that is sarcasm for those who fail to recognize it)

Non christians are christians- just with out Jesus

Not only condesending but also truly insulting. Perhaps as a self-labeled' heathen, I can refer to christians as being heathens without the mind to think for themselves. 

[SLCPUNK]

I can't agree dude, check out this story.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050828/ap_on_re_us/soldier_funeral_protests

I agree that banging drums is annoying and disrespectful, but christians protesting at a dead guy's funeral -- in the presence of his grief stricken relatives -- by yelling "god hates fags!" and "burn in hell fags!" is below the scumbag level.

Yes, that is even lower. Those people don't know anything about being Christians.

That guy is a total fuckin jerk. Furthest thing away from anything good. Even other churches protest (seriously) when he comes to town.

[SLCPUNK]

CARACAS, Venezuela, Aug 28 (Reuters) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said on Sunday his government would take legal action against Pat Robertson and potentially seek his extradition after the U.S. evangelist called for Washington to assassinate the South American leader.

Robertson, who later apologized for the remark, said he was expressing his frustration with Chavez's constant accusations against the administration of President George W. Bush.

"I announce that my government is going to take legal action in the United States ... to call for the assassination of a head of state is an act of terrorism." Chavez said in a televised speech.

The fiery left-wing critic of Bush's foreign policy who frequently charges the U.S. government is plotting to kill him, called Robertson "crazy" and a "public menace."

He said Venezuela could seek Robertson's extradition under international treaties and take its claim to the United Nations if the Bush administration did not act.

Robertson, the founder of the Christian Coalition and a leader of the Christian right that has backed Bush, said on Monday that if Chavez "thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it."

U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said political assassination was against the law and was not U.S. policy.

Relations between Chavez and the United States, the top buyer of the OPEC nation's oil, have deteriorated since Chavez survived a brief 2002 coup he says was backed by U.S. authorities. Washington says it is not plotting to kill Chavez and denies involvement in the coup.

Chavez said on Friday Bush would be to blame if anything happened to him. In the past, he has said Venezuela, the world's fifth-largest oil exporter, would cut sales to the United States if he was assassinated.

A close ally of communist Cuba, Chavez presents his self-proclaimed revolution as an alternative to U.S. policies in the region.

Washington says Chavez is a negative influence who uses oil profits to fund anti-democratic groups in South America while becoming more authoritarian at home.

U.S. civil rights activist Jesse Jackson, visiting Venezuela on Sunday, called Robertson's remarks "immoral" and rejected U.S. government claims against Chavez.

[Rain]

Funny I saw the news on TV an hour ago !
Pat Roberston should have seen this coming ! Now he's an easy target !

what's actually funny is that : "Washington says Chavez is a negative influence who uses oil profits to fund anti-democratic groups in South America while becoming more authoritarian at home"

I'm not saying that Chavez a saint, he isn't ... but he was democratically elected until 2006! And washington stating that he's supporting anti-democratic groups in South America is hilarious ... Who supported Pinochet and all the south american dictatorship for decades ?

[Tied-Up]

  I think we should just gift wrap Robertson and give him to Chavez.   Consider it a peace offering gift.

We would not only make Chavez happy, but, we would be rid of Robertson. BONUS!

While we're at it... can we just toss the rest of the right wing nut jobs in the box?

[SLCPUNK]

I was hoping Robertson would stand on top of the Dome in New Orleans, squeeze his eyes real hard and pray for the thing to go south......Too bad he wasn' thinking the same thing.

*****

Serious though Robertson pissing off Chavez (who has already threatened to cut our oil off) is great timing, especially with a hurricane that may destroy our ports where oil is delivered and the refeneries in the gulf...

They should COD his ass to S America right away.....

I wonder what the USA would do if some "church leader" in south America called for W's (pin)head?

If Chavez follows W's scale, then we should be ok, since he would invade a totally different country.....

[Tied-Up]

I think that the right wing nut jobs that were arguing with me and Bridge have finally shaken the dust off their sandals or however that passage is supposed to go.  Bummer... I was so enjoying the comic relief from their ramblings.

[POPmetal]

This farce just gets better and better. Now, after his talks with the reverend Jesse Jackson ? Chavez is gonna sell oil directly to poor communities in the US.

Venezuela to sell cut-price heating oil to U.S. poor
Aug 29 10:39 PM US/Eastern
 

CARACAS, Venezuela (Reuters) - Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez said on Monday his government plans to sell as much as 66,000 barrels per day of heating fuel from its U.S. Citgo refinery to poor communities in the United States.

The offer, made after populist Chavez held talks with U.S. civil rights activist Rev. Jesse Jackson, would represent 10 percent of the 660,000 bpd of refined products processed by Citgo. The deals would cut consumer costs by direct sales.

Venezuela's Energy Minister Rafael Ramirez said officials were still working on the details on how the oil would be sold from Citgo, a unit of the state oil firm PDVSA.

"We are going to direct as much as 10 percent of the production, that means 66,000 barrels, without intermediaries, to poor communities, hospitals, religious communities, schools," Chavez told reporters at a press conference.

The world's No. 5 oil exporter, oil cartel OPEC member Venezuela is a key supplier to the United States, providing about 15 percent of all U.S. energy imports.

But relations between Caracas and Washington have become strained since left-winger Chavez was elected in 1998 promising social reforms.

Chavez, a former army officer who survived a coup in 2002, frequently accuses the U.S. of backing efforts to kill him or topple his government. U.S. officials dismiss those charges but say Chavez has become a threat to regional stability.

Not that this affects me, but even if it did, I'd still rather pay more to avoid buying from Citago, which is a fully owned subsidiary of the Venezuelan state oil monopoly, and portions of its proceeds, whether directly or indirectly, end up helping radical left wing entities such as FARC terrorists and Fidel Castro's dictatorship.

That's why I think Bush's energy plan is so pathetic. Instead of subsidizing oil companies, we should be funding alternative forms of energy research, so that we can end our oil dependency on Saudi Arabia and Venezuela and stop funding terrorists and Marxists. And in the meantime, start drilling in Alaska.

[Rain]

Yeah right and maybe you can build a wall and live in autarchy ! 

[Tied-Up]

Bridge:  I don't know... he acts a lot like an ordained reverend.  He even cheats on his wife just like the other ministers do.   

[SLCPUNK]

This farce just gets better and better. Now, after his talks with the reverend Jesse Jackson

Jesse Jackson isn't really an ordained reverand is he?  Some churchgoers a few years ago told me he was nothing more than a self-professed "reverand".

The guy has dedicated himself to human rights around the world, working alongside Martin Luther King. He was in the seminary but did not finish after he decided to dedicate himself to the civil rights movement.

He's probably done ten-fold what anybody at your church has, or ever will do.

[gilld1]

Yeah, and Jesse gave an awesome reading of Green Eggs and Ham a few years back on SNL.

[Kitano]

This farce just gets better and better. Now, after his talks with the reverend Jesse Jackson

Jesse Jackson isn't really an ordained reverand is he?? Some churchgoers a few years ago told me he was nothing more than a self-professed "reverand".

The guy has dedicated himself to human rights around the world, working alongside Martin Luther King. He was in the seminary but did not finish after he decided to dedicate himself to the civil rights movement.

He's probably done ten-fold what anybody at your church has, or ever will do.

He's done alot to make his family rich and stir up racial tensions.? He hasn't done shit for the average black family except exploit them.? If that wasn't enought he is also an anti semite.

"Huh? Wazzat? I bolt upright in bed. Had EDB finally gone over the edge?

As I listened it turned out there had been a stampede at a South Side nightclub today that resulted in the deaths of 21 people. There was a fight between two girls on the second floor and the bouncers quickly moved in and started using pepper spray on everyone. In an attempt to find fresh air, the 1,500 patrons of the club stormed down a single, narrow stairwell that led to the only exit out of the building. The news was still being sorted out as I listened, but one thing was quickly relayed to the listener:

The Reverend Jesse Jackson arrived at the scene and declared, "We are asking area ministers to go to hospitals. My people are overwhelmed with the suddenness of this. At a time like this, you have to lean on your faith."

Bullshit Jesse. Fucking bullshit. The only thing you lean on are the television cameras.

You see, the only reason that nightclub was still open was because of Jesse. Back in July the E2 club was supposed to be shut down because of the numerous fights that took place in and around the club and because of several fire code violations. There was only one tiny stairwell leading out of the place and many of the doors were usually locked. If there was a fire, there would be a stampede and people could get crushed to death...

In swoops Jesse Jackson to the rescue!

The E2 nightclub was a black-owned business run by one of Jesse's childhood friends! How dare the city try to shut it down! This fire code violation must be the result of a secret campaign to take down black businessmen! Thus began a legal fight to keep the club open, with Jesse leading the charge protecting the little businessman from the big bad city inspectors.

Now, seven months later, almost the exact thing that the city wanted to prevent has happened. And who was front and center on the TV cameras offering prayer and help to the families? Jesse Fucking Jackson

Talk about damage control.

I really should be used to this by now, Jesse's use of the media and empty calls of racism to further his own personal agenda. I guess it's just that racism most definitely still exists in Chicago and instead of trying to help solve actual problems that are occuring, Jesse only wants to make more money for himself and his family. His Chicken Little cries of racism only serve to trivialize real problems that still go on.

One of Jesse's nicknames here is the "King of Beers." A few years ago, Anheuser-Busch was having problems in the city. African-American employees complained that they were being denied promotions and were threatening to call in Jackson and Operation PUSH if Busch didn't satisfy their demands. Jackson began rumbling about how there were no black-owned beer distributors in Chicago and started to preach a heavy anti-alcohol message to his congregations. He had led a major boycott of Anheuser-Busch in 1982, and the beer company didn't want a repeat of that. So they sent a $10,000 contribution to Jackson's Citizenship Education Fund in 1997, and campaign cash to Jesse Jackson Jr. in his run for the House of Representatives.

But Jesse only turned up the heat, decrying the complete absence of minority ownership. So Busch sold the highly lucrative River North distributorship to two young black men, Yusef Jackson and Johnathan Jackson, for about $7 million, about one third of the price it should have cost. The Jackson brothers were in their 20s and had no experience in marketing or management, let alone running a huge beer distribution firm. But I guess the fact that they were Jesse's sons was the only experience required. What was Jesse's (who remember up until now had talked about how evil alcohol was for the black community) response?"

[SLCPUNK]

He's probably done ten-fold what anybody at your church has

I don't go to church.

Furthermore, the things you mentioned do not earn a title such as reverand.  And then there are the examples Kitano gave.

Many people get honorary PHD's (See: MLK), he probably was given that title (reverand) as well (although I could be wrong).

 Reread my post for more background info.

Either way, this man has done plenty, more than anybody on this board I am sure, for the advancement of civil rights, and human equality. To give him shit because he chose to drop seminary and follow those ideals is a rather low class thing to say. But, as I see often on this board, those who promote peace, understanding, and respect are looked down on. While people who wage wars, lie, and condone murder are looked up to.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Jesse usually is good for stirring up the shit and gets in the way of progress.

But it looks like he actually accomplished something wit this visit with Chavez.

If Venezuela legally elected this guy then who are we to say anything? That is what the people want and that is their right in a demoratic society.