Philosophical question of the month-June

[2NaFish]

Thats not correct journey. God could (as god is infinetly powerful and infinetly wise) make you better at moral decisions. Our conscience is already quite powerful, why didnt he make it more powerful?

Journey, when you are the top of a building and want to get to the bottom do you jump off the roof or take the stairs? You take the stairs. Why? Because God made you good at making these sorts of decisions. But it doesnt affect your free will. You can still jump off the roof if you want, its just that God made you better at making those choices.

The exact same goes for moral decisions.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

what about when i shoot an african kid in the head with my ak-47 ?

[journey]

Thats not correct journey. God could (as god is infinetly powerful and infinetly wise) make you better at moral decisions. Our conscience is already quite powerful, why didnt he make it more powerful?

It's as powerful as it gets.
 

Journey, when you are the top of a building and want to get to the bottom do you jump off the roof or take the stairs? You take the stairs. Why? Because God made you good at making these sorts of decisions. But it doesnt affect your free will. You can still jump off the roof if you want, its just that God made you better at making those choices. The exact same goes for moral decisions.

Well most people take the stairs and most people don't hurt others. But there are a few who choose to take a more painful path and that's not God's fault. God's not a puppet master, therefore he can't control us or choose for us.

[GeorgeSteele]

What is the meaning of life?

I think life is a learning process. Maybe we're supposed to learn the true meaning of love, that unconditional kind of love. If you can get to a point where you care about everyone, even the ones who don't care about you, then maybe you've learned a lot.

Then why doesn't God create people without the ability to commit sin. Why not create people who are perfect and unable to harm others. People can still have free will, it's just that they wont have it in them to hurt.

Then that wouldn't really be free will. God wants us to learn why we shouldn't hurt others.

Journey, now your taste in music makes complete sense to me.  I mean that as a compliment and not a back-handed one. 

My problem with God and free will is that God allows innocents to be harmed by others' exercise of their free will.  And what about natural disasters?  How can God allow that?  Is he merely an observant bystander watching us fuck up our lives and having a good laugh at it?

Sometimes it seems that God is punishing humans for choosing free will.  God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, but when they did, he made them pay for it.  This theme is consistent with many Christian religions that tell you to "surrender" your life to Jesus and only then will you be saved.  The message is that free will is a bad thing because we ultimately make bad choices; so let God make them for us.  I find it impossible to reconcile that image of God as all-loving and all-merciful.

Not sure what any of that has to do with the meaning of life, but I think the dude with the picture of the kitten was on to something.   
   

[2NaFish]

It's as powerful as it gets.

To say our consience is as powerful as it gets is a cop out. Ofcourse it can be more powerful - God should be able to do anything being all powerful and all knowing. If not then the whole thing falls apart.

Well most people take the stairs and most people don't hurt others. But there are a few who choose to take a more painful path and that's not God's fault. God's not a puppet master, therefore he can't control us or choose for us.

99.9% of people take the stairs 99 times out of a hundred  - God made us good at those decisions.
No where near that amount of people do the morally right thing in every situation - God made us poor at those decisions.

I'm not saying that god wants to control us - but i've proven he can make us better at choosing things without affecting our free will; so why didn't (or cant) he make us better at choosing the morally right thing more often.

[journey]

My problem with God and free will is that God allows innocents to be harmed by others' exercise of their free will.? And what about natural disasters?? How can God allow that?? Is he merely an observant bystander watching us fuck up our lives and having a good laugh at it?

I always struggle with those two questions. There's no easy explanation. As far as innocent people being harmed, that can be prevented. We as a people, have a personal/moral responsibility to protect one another. The natural disaster element is very puzzling though. But I'm certain that God doesn't get any enjoyment from it.

Sometimes it seems that God is punishing humans for choosing free will.? God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, but when they did, he made them pay for it.? This theme is consistent with many Christian religions that tell you to "surrender" your life to Jesus and only then will you be saved.? The message is that free will is a bad thing because we ultimately make bad choices; so let God make them for us.? I find it impossible to reconcile that image of God as all-loving and all-merciful.

I don't think God wants to do the thinking for us. I've always seen it as he wants to be trusted as someone we can turn to when we do find ourselves in difficult situations. He's there for guidance rather than rulership.

99.9% of people take the stairs 99 times out of a hundred - God made us good at those decisions.
No where near that amount of people do the morally right thing in every situation - God made us poor at those decisions.

I'm not saying that god wants to control us - but i've proven he can make us better at choosing things without affecting our free will; so why didn't (or cant) he make us better at choosing the morally right thing more often.

It all circles back to our innate selfishness. Of course a person will take the stairs instead of plummeting to his death, because he wants to preserve the life he values (his own). That's the moral dilemma. The lesson of life is to understand the importance of everyones lives not just your own.

[2NaFish]

You sidestepped my question.

I've proven that god can improve our decision making process without affecting free will. Why didnt God make us better at choosing the right moral path?

[journey]

You sidestepped my question.

I've proven that god can improve our decision making process without affecting free will. Why didnt God make us better at choosing the right moral path?

If we all came equipped with the all-knowing mind, then things would be easy breezy and fair weathered forever. But what would we learn from that? What would be the point of the whole earthly experience? There would be no need for it. Our minds are strong from the beginning, but we have to evolve emotionally and spiritually through trail and error in order to become that well-rounded person. It's a natural process.

[2NaFish]

you've sidestepped my question again, and misrepresented me. i never said god should make us all knowing. i said he should've made us better, not perfect.

just as we are good at making common sense decisions why didnt god make us BETTER at moral decisions?

[journey]

you've sidestepped my question again, and misrepresented me. i never said god should make us all knowing. i said he should've made us better, not perfect.

just as we are good at making common sense decisions why didnt god make us BETTER at moral decisions?

Well most common sense decisions are instinctive. Morality is the most complex element. The common sense parts of our lives keep us surviving. The moral situations allow us to keep learning and building our conscientious structure.

I think if God were to have made us better in that sense, then that would've tampered with us learning how to become better on our own. Which is the point I was trying to make about the meaning of life. We have to learn to become that "better" person, in order to come full circle and experience true enlightenment.

[Jessica]

What is the meaning of life?

I think life is a learning process. Maybe we're supposed to learn the true meaning of love, that unconditional kind of love. If you can get to a point where you care about everyone, even the ones who don't care about you, then maybe you've learned a lot.

Then why doesn't God create people without the ability to commit sin. Why not create people who are perfect and unable to harm others. People can still have free will, it's just that they wont have it in them to hurt.

Then that wouldn't really be free will. God wants us to learn why we shouldn't hurt others.

The lesson can be pretty harsh.

But some refuse to see God.

[Jessica]

you've sidestepped my question again, and misrepresented me. i never said god should make us all knowing. i said he should've made us better, not perfect.

just as we are good at making common sense decisions why didnt god make us BETTER at moral decisions?

Also, don't forget that every decision you make has consequences.

For every good move, there are negative consequences.
For every horrible thing, there are good consequences.

Our world has martyrs, yes.

Our world has shitheads with the possibility to steal murder rape and kill, yes.

Bu then, who's to say we don't vome back ?
Who's to say we don't have to make amends in the future to people we once hurt ?

Couldn't it be the why we arent better at decisions?

Could it be that we to learn HOW to take the decisions ?

[2NaFish]

I think if God were to have made us better in that sense, then that would've tampered with us learning how to become better on our own. Which is the point I was trying to make about the meaning of life. We have to learn to become that "better" person, in order to come full circle and experience true enlightenment.

so god thinks its more important we struggle (and in most cases fail) to learn lessons about life than actually living in a world where people treat each other well.

sorry, but thats absolutely crazy. if that is what god wants then He is dememented and is fucking with us.


No, if God were truelly all-loving then he'd have made the world better.

[Markus Asraelius]

The meaning of life is really whatever a person makes of life. Meaning the meaning of life is decided by the person who is control of his life and what he/she decides for his/her life is all up to them or SHOULD BE UP TO THEM. 

[2NaFish]

The meaning of life is really whatever a person makes of life. Meaning the meaning of life is decided by the person who is control of his life and what he/she decides for his/her life is all up to them or SHOULD BE UP TO THEM.

as has already been pointed it this theory it pretty much flowery nonsense. the universe isnt completely subjective and simply because i say "the meaning of life is shiting yourself, steweing the feaces in your underwear for days on end and then dumping said poop on the Pope's head" does not make it so.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

whhy would WE be in the center of your questions ?
we're just human.

then again, 2nafish, your example is correct, that would be the meaning of "your" universe.
and as you must know, you are just one little element in MY universe, eveyrthing revolves around me. and you must think the same way.

[Sakib]

"Well i believe it's because it's like you can;t be caught red handed for committing a crime you haven;t yet committed or planned to commit. There maybe some other explanation only Allah knows as Allah knows best."

Then why doesn't God create people without the ability to commit sin. Why not create people who are perfect and unable to harm others. People can still have free will, it's just that they wont have it in them to hurt.

On a side note, in Islam, I really like the saying that Allah is closer to you than your jugular vain.

"I've realised the majority of philosophical questions set by Nixon usually involve an element of religion."

The two (religion and philosophy) are inseparable, no?

i agree with you. The reason why Allah doesn't create "perfect beings" in every manner is because Allah challenges mankind to be the best they can. He probably has created the perfectly harmless beings like you mentioned but we don't notice or know. Anyway the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is our model of perfection. He's the most perfect human being. Not any of his close relatives or friends could say anything negative about him. Whether you believe this or not is not in my hands.

Religion and philosophy are inseperable.

[2NaFish]

religion and philosophy are not inseparable. for you religion involves itself with every stage of life; but not for everyone. (unless you loosely categorize any sort of faith whatsoever as a religion)

bessam, you are indeed the shining star in my world; i'd wither and die without you.

[the dirt]

just as we are good at making common sense decisions why didnt god make us BETTER at moral decisions?

Because evil exists.

[2NaFish]

so because evil exists God didnt make us better at moral decisions? I don't understand that.