CIA-the most dangerous organization

[gandra]

well,my point isn't bashing Us,because i really respect Us system and way of life

but is CIA out of us goverment

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Al Qaida is the most dangerous organization.

The CIA are no angels, they've done some things that were less than credible.



But the CIA has not flown civilian airliners into buildings.

[stolat]

Or, are they really THE government? ?

I blame the CIA for Vietnam.

[lastroots]

@freedom:

right, but that isn't what I said. I didn't say take the US out of the last 60 years, I said take the US foreign policy out of TODAY or at least the last 7 years. They did wrong things before, but the worst is happening right now, and if we don't take care Bush will soon start another unjustified war. And then I'll take action, since I have a lot of friends in Iran.

[polluxlm]

I know very well the bloody and hypocrit history of the worlds nations, and it will be brought up when necessary.

It's necessary NOW! Everyone's so concerned about the US's abuses of power that they neglect all the other violence in the world.

The situation today however is one of the US being the only super power left, and they won't hesitate to execute that power while taking cover under old dogmas and debts. If you do the shit you have to take the criticism.

If you believe in realism, then that's how you'd expect it to work.

There are no bigger hypocrits than the United States in the year 2007.

How so? I see so many other nations who criticize the US, yet do very little to assuage all the suffering and war in the world that has nothing to do with US involvement. The US failed to stop the Rwandan genocide. Then again, so did everyone else. Is your country currently stopping the violence in Darfur? Nope. Hypocrisy isn't acting badly. Hypocrisy is taking a principled, moral position, while effectively doing nothing to actually support it.

I'm not forgetting or disregarding what goes on around the world, it's just not relevant to what we are discussing - the American CIA.

Just because something has always been does not make it right. You can't justify or disregard agression because 'that's normal'.

And I don't see what genocides and civil wars got to do with anything. Other nations can kill each other all they want, it's nor mine or your responsibility to take. I'm talking about the manipulation, the blackmail, the cultural imperialism, the wars, the killings, the prisons etc. that the US have been forcing on most of the world for the past 100 years. No, they're not the only one, but they are the leader of the pack. The one holding the strings.

And that is why they are, and should be, the focus of attention.

[fuckin crazy]

The U.S. Government never entered the war on goodwill, honor or whatever. They saw an opportunity and they took it.

Damn , where have I been , I'll play : I haven't seen such a big heaping pile of BULLSHIT since that Clown . The US entered the WW ll after being attacked unprevokedly by a very brutal regime (read the rape of Nanking) . Sure US the government supplied Britain with war material , but the UK had gone to war to protect Poland from another brutal regime . Britain was fighting for her national survival . The US and Britain had and has a very intimate relationship . Both countries share the same culture , language , and laws , and both countries are obligated to defend the other in case of attack . To say that the US entered the war for ulterior motives , that she gave 450,000 of her bravest souls for anything other than the defence of the free world just shows that you sir are an IGNORANT FOOL .

[freedom78]

They did wrong things before, but the worst is happening right now, and if we don't take care Bush will soon start another unjustified war.

On this, at least, we agree, and I think we both agree that that would be quite bad.

And then I'll take action, since I have a lot of friends in Iran.

I'm not sure what you mean by this?  Is that a threat?

Just because something has always been does not make it right. You can't justify or disregard agression because 'that's normal'.

I'm not justifying anything.  I abhor many of the US's actions.  But I don't, for a moment, believe that such actions would be a rarity if the US existed as an isolationist state.
 

And I don't see what genocides and civil wars got to do with anything. Other nations can kill each other all they want, it's nor mine or your responsibility to take.

First, civil wars and genocides were meant to draw an example of a hypocrisy that is certainly not singular to the US.

Second, how can you so easily say that it's wrong to instigate violence, yet believe it's perfectly acceptable to allow genocides to occur?  And of course they're relevant.  Critics of US foreign policy want us to stop interfering, yet we're criticized (and rightly so) for NOT interfering to stop the Rwandan genocide, among other things.  I'm just saying the world can't really have it both ways.  What most say they want is for the US to, essentially, get out of others' business.  But what they really want is for the US to bear the cost and burden of intervening when it's deemed acceptable. 

I'm talking about the manipulation, the blackmail, the cultural imperialism, the wars, the killings, the prisons etc. that the US have been forcing on most of the world for the past 100 years. No, they're not the only one, but they are the leader of the pack. The one holding the strings.

And I'm as much against these things as anyone else.

[lastroots]

The U.S. Government never entered the war on goodwill, honor or whatever. They saw an opportunity and they took it.

Damn , where have I been , I'll play : I haven't seen such a big heaping pile of BULLSHIT since that Clown . The US entered the WW ll after being attacked unprevokedly by a very brutal regime (read the rape of Nanking) . Sure US the government supplied Britain with war material , but the UK had gone to war to protect Poland from another brutal regime . Britain was fighting for her national survival . The US and Britain had and has a very intimate relationship . Both countries share the same culture , language , and laws , and both countries are obligated to defend the other in case of attack . To say that the US entered the war for ulterior motives , that she gave 450,000 of her bravest souls for anything other than the defence of the free world just shows that you sir are an IGNORANT FOOL .

May I remind you that the US government had a very friendly relationship with the Nazi regime until Hitler declared war to the US in 1941 and that they didn't care the smallest bit until then?

[lastroots]

I recently released an article on what happens in Guantanamo in a German news magazine. It's in German, if ya like put it into babelfish.


http://www.heise.de/tp/r4/artikel/25/25219/1.html

[fuckin crazy]

@freedom:

right, but that isn't what I said. I didn't say take the US out of the last 60 years, I said take the US foreign policy out of TODAY or at least the last 7 years. They did wrong things before, but the worst is happening right now, and if we don't take care Bush will soon start another unjustified war. And then I'll take action, since I have a lot of friends in Iran.

I agree , these last 7 years have been , to borrow a "military " term , a "clusterfuck" . The US needs to leave that region at let the Sunni and Shai'a have at it . May the best man win !!!

[freedom78]

May I remind you that the US government had a very friendly relationship with the Nazi regime until Hitler declared war to the US in 1941 and that they didn't care the smallest bit until then?

That's a bit revisionist.  Roosevelt wanted to get us into the war, but there was a general sentiment of isolationism in the US.  But, it was just a matter of time until we went to war.  The Japanese attack on PH and the subsequent declaration of war by Germany just helped to move the time line up.

[lastroots]

@freedom:

right, but that isn't what I said. I didn't say take the US out of the last 60 years, I said take the US foreign policy out of TODAY or at least the last 7 years. They did wrong things before, but the worst is happening right now, and if we don't take care Bush will soon start another unjustified war. And then I'll take action, since I have a lot of friends in Iran.

I agree , these last 7 years have been , to borrow a "military " term , a "clusterfuck" . The US needs to leave that region at let the Sunni and Shai'a have at it . May the best man win !!!

How funny you are. It seems you have no idea of either Sunni or Shi'a. And it seems you have no idea of Iraq, Iraqi history as well as the American (not only!!) influence on that region since the beginning on the last century.

[lastroots]

@freedom: not revisionist, but you're right, I did cut it too short. Still, the oeconomic relations between the US and Nazi Germany were very friendly. And I don't wanna defend anyone here. I'm German and trust me neither am I proud of our history nor our current goverment...

[freedom78]

@freedom: not revisionist, but you're right, I did cut it too short. Still, the oeconomic relations between the US and Nazi Germany were very friendly. And I don't wanna defend anyone here. I'm German and trust me neither am I proud of our history nor our current goverment...

I have a feeling that more Europeans are going to be irritated with their governments, as they keep electing leaders who are more cozy with Bush than their predecessors.

[fuckin crazy]

May I remind you that the US government had a very friendly relationship with the Nazi regime until Hitler declared war to the US in 1941 and that they didn't care the smallest bit until then?

Wrong , The US had diplomatic relations with the Nazi regime , they were anything but very friendly , in fact they were rather frigid .

 I don't know where people come up this revisionist view of the world , but read the memoirs of the world the leaders of that time . The men who lived through era . If one did , one might realize a greater understanding of political science , and hence the conflicts that we all confront today .

[polluxlm]

Just because something has always been does not make it right. You can't justify or disregard agression because 'that's normal'.

I'm not justifying anything.? I abhor many of the US's actions.? But I don't, for a moment, believe that such actions would be a rarity if the US existed as an isolationist state.
 

And I don't see what genocides and civil wars got to do with anything. Other nations can kill each other all they want, it's nor mine or your responsibility to take.

First, civil wars and genocides were meant to draw an example of a hypocrisy that is certainly not singular to the US.

Second, how can you so easily say that it's wrong to instigate violence, yet believe it's perfectly acceptable to allow genocides to occur?? And of course they're relevant.? Critics of US foreign policy want us to stop interfering, yet we're criticized (and rightly so) for NOT interfering to stop the Rwandan genocide, among other things.? I'm just saying the world can't really have it both ways.? What most say they want is for the US to, essentially, get out of others' business.? But what they really want is for the US to bear the cost and burden of intervening when it's deemed acceptable.?

I'm talking about the manipulation, the blackmail, the cultural imperialism, the wars, the killings, the prisons etc. that the US have been forcing on most of the world for the past 100 years. No, they're not the only one, but they are the leader of the pack. The one holding the strings.

And I'm as much against these things as anyone else.

We're straying a bit over to philosophical discussions here. I agree with most of what you say. There are no innocents and the problem lies everywhere. That much is true.

But the matter of fact is still that the US is the leader, and they are the only ones who could put an end to all the bullshit in our world.


Yet they choose to act like the biggest antagonizer of them all, all in the name of democracy and freedom.


Bottom line it's a global problem, a human problem. If we really want to do something about it we should start looking at the real enemy, not take elusive sides, cause that's what they want us to do. Whoever they/it are.

[fuckin crazy]

How funny you are. It seems you have no idea of either Sunni or Shi'a. And it seems you have no idea of Iraq, Iraqi history as well as the American (not only!!) influence on that region since the beginning on the last century.

You are right sir , I readily profess my ignorance of those two cultures , however it is readily apparent , to even the most casual observer of the animosity between those two religions . I do know however that US influence in that region was minor and ancillary untill the mid 50s in Persia and very recent in Iraq

[DeN]

wrong, the most dangerous organization is UMP, in france. 

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

wrong, the most dangerous organization is UMP, in france. 

aaha you got THAT right

[lastroots]

How funny you are. It seems you have no idea of either Sunni or Shi'a. And it seems you have no idea of Iraq, Iraqi history as well as the American (not only!!) influence on that region since the beginning on the last century.

You are right sir , I readily profess my ignorance of those two cultures , however it is readily apparent , to even the most casual observer of the animosity between those two religions . I do know however that US influence in that region was minor and ancillary untill the mid 50s in Persia and very recent in Iraq

You're aware that the British Army, along with the US government created in Mesopotamia what is known as Iraq today during WWI?