CIA-the most dangerous organization

[fuckin crazy]

I'm talking about the manipulation, the blackmail, the cultural imperialism, the wars, the killings, the prisons etc. that the US have been forcing on most of the world for the past 100 years.

 ?non siquetur...
 It was Rosevelt in 45 and Truman in 46 that ended British Imperialism

 ?non siquetur...
the US was an isolationist nation untill 7 Dec 1941

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

How funny you are. It seems you have no idea of either Sunni or Shi'a. And it seems you have no idea of Iraq, Iraqi history as well as the American (not only!!) influence on that region since the beginning on the last century.

You are right sir , I readily profess my ignorance of those two cultures , however it is readily apparent , to even the most casual observer of the animosity between those two religions . I do know however that US influence in that region was minor and ancillary untill the mid 50s in Persia and very recent in Iraq

You're aware that the British Army, along with the US government created in Mesopotamia what is known as Iraq today during WWI?

well, it's not THAT true ... lands and territories have been changing for ever. the WWI or WWII modifications are among others, all along time.

[fuckin crazy]

ancillary and minor role played by US Gov in Iraq pre 1990 . Prove me wrong if you can , where is your documentation .

[freedom78]

You're aware that the British Army, along with the US government created in Mesopotamia what is known as Iraq today during WWI?

The US role in the creation of the modern Middle East is minor, when compared to those of Britain and France.  Same with Africa.  But that hardly matters at this point.

[polluxlm]

 ?non siquetur...
 It was Rosevelt in 45 and Truman in 46 that ended British Imperialism

 ?non siquetur...
the US was an isoltionist nation untill 7 Dec 1941

No, they'd been doing activities in the pacific, mexico and latin/south america long before that.

[fuckin crazy]

"The US role in the creation of the modern Middle East is minor, when compared to those of Britain and France.? Same with Africa.? But that hardly matters at this point"

I thought that was the point you were trying to make

edit :  oops-attributed to the wrong person

[fuckin crazy]

  non siquetur...
 It was Rosevelt in 45 and Truman in 46 that ended British Imperialism

  non siquetur...
the US was an isoltionist nation untill 7 Dec 1941

No, they'd been doing activities in the pacific, mexico and latin/south america long before that.

point granted

[freedom78]

  non siquetur...
 It was Rosevelt in 45 and Truman in 46 that ended British Imperialism

  non siquetur...
the US was an isoltionist nation untill 7 Dec 1941

No, they'd been doing activities in the pacific, mexico and latin/south america long before that.

You mean the southern provinces?

[fuckin crazy]

the US has an absolute dismal record in Latin and S. America and the Pacific , but that is not what we were debating .

[fuckin crazy]

 non siquetur...
 It was Rosevelt in 45 and Truman in 46 that ended British Imperialism

 non siquetur...
the US was an isoltionist nation untill 7 Dec 1941

No, they'd been doing activities in the pacific, mexico and latin/south america long before that.

You mean the southern provinces?

haha , thats how US foreign policy regarded that area untill Clinton

[polluxlm]

Is that what they're called now?

I don't know, I just remember they had been taking land outside their borders before the war. But it's a unsignificant point anyway.

[freedom78]

Is that what they're called now?

I don't know, I just remember they had been taking land outside their borders before the war. But it's a unsignificant point anyway.

Joking, of course, though I personally think the US's failures in Latin America are among its worst. 

[gandra]

Al Qaida is the most dangerous organization.

The CIA are no angels, they've done some things that were less than credible.



But the CIA has not flown civilian airliners into buildings.

cia made al qaida
cia is mother of al qaida

[Lucky]

america/america instelled governments have killed more people since 1945 than all the previous regimes in the world put together.

Thank you for writing this.  I was starting to think that all our critics were justified, but this reassures me that, in fact, many of you are just deluded.  Are you serious?  "All the previous regimes in the world put together?"  Hmm...let's count a few shall we:

Nazi Germany - well, WWII accounted for 62 MILLION deaths, and since the Nazis started it, I'll put those on their tab.

I doubt the US can top even that gaudy number, but just in case, these other mass killers could be added to it:

The British, French, and Spanish (among others) who destroyed so many native populations in the lands they conquered.

The vikings, moors, huns, Mongols, and so many others who tried to conquer the world, through violence.

The Roman Empire, which ruled much of the world, often through violence and conquest.

Yeah...but the US has killed more. 

most dictators in the world since 1945 were hand picked and installed by the USA.
the whole "we're here to help" thing is a big hypocrisy. usa only helps usa.

Be grateful you aren't speaking German twice over right now.  The next time you criticize the US, please kindly remember that Europe's inability to solve its own problems was a strong contributor to the US's rise as a world power.

the whole "democracy" thing in the usa is also a big farce, because in the end it all comes down to 2 parties...
and both of them do the same things, only thing is that the republicans are a little more blunt.

Technically, democracy is a farce everywhere, as there isn't a truly democratic state in existence. 
****************************************************************************
None of the above, however, reflects my true position.  Rather, it reflects the fact that, in a desire to bash my homeland, most have selective memories and use faulty logic.  After all, how long does it take for YOU (all of you) to wash the blood off of your country's hands?  At what point can YOU take the high ground without it being hypocrisy?  There isn't a state in this world that isn't awash in the blood of those who conquered or were conquered.  Criticize all you like.  I hope it helps you deal with what is, undoubtedly, your own bloody past. 

nazis killed estimated 21 million people. Stalin on the other hand killed at least 20 000 000 of his own people.
so that thesis of your fails....
2nd,... here's what USA had to do in the past 60 years...
Korean War  2 800 000
Vietnam War  1 700 000

those are only 2 wars...
but you need to add all the dictators USA suported over the years in central, south america, africa, asia, and europe.
such as pinochet.
also the afgan, iraq, and iran wars.... USA was supplying wepons to all of them....
how many dictators through the years were sponsored by the CIA?
In Iraq, al quaida still used stingers provided by the CIA for the war in afganistan.

[freedom78]

america/america instelled governments have killed more people since 1945 than all the previous regimes in the world put together.

Thank you for writing this.  I was starting to think that all our critics were justified, but this reassures me that, in fact, many of you are just deluded.  Are you serious?  "All the previous regimes in the world put together?"  Hmm...let's count a few shall we:

Nazi Germany - well, WWII accounted for 62 MILLION deaths, and since the Nazis started it, I'll put those on their tab.

I doubt the US can top even that gaudy number, but just in case, these other mass killers could be added to it:

The British, French, and Spanish (among others) who destroyed so many native populations in the lands they conquered.

The vikings, moors, huns, Mongols, and so many others who tried to conquer the world, through violence.

The Roman Empire, which ruled much of the world, often through violence and conquest.

Yeah...but the US has killed more. 

nazis killed estimated 21 million people. Stalin on the other hand killed at least 20 000 000 of his own people.
so that thesis of your fails....
2nd,... here's what USA had to do in the past 60 years...
Korean War  2 800 000
Vietnam War  1 700 000

those are only 2 wars...
but you need to add all the dictators USA suported over the years in central, south america, africa, asia, and europe.
such as pinochet.
also the afgan, iraq, and iran wars.... USA was supplying wepons to all of them....
how many dictators through the years were sponsored by the CIA?
In Iraq, al quaida still used stingers provided by the CIA for the war in afganistan.

What the fuck?  You claimed that the US is the biggest killer ever, credit 4.5 million deaths to the US (ignoring that Korea was a UN action, fuckstick), and then claim that that somehow overcomes the 41 million that YOU attribute to Hitler and Stalin. 

You seem to have not understood my point, which is that your claim is completely ridiculous.  And, of course, you have not proven it to be otherwise.   

[Mr. Redman]

Thank you for writing this.  I was starting to think that all our critics were justified, but this reassures me that, in fact, many of you are just deluded.  Are you serious?  "All the previous regimes in the world put together?"  Hmm...let's count a few shall we:

Nazi Germany - well, WWII accounted for 62 MILLION deaths, and since the Nazis started it, I'll put those on their tab.
I doubt the US can top even that gaudy number, but just in case, these other mass killers could be added to it:
The British, French, and Spanish (among others) who destroyed so many native populations in the lands they conquered.
The vikings, moors, huns, Mongols, and so many others who tried to conquer the world, through violence.
The Roman Empire, which ruled much of the world, often through violence and conquest.
Yeah...but the US has killed more. 

First off, I actually thank YOU for writing this. All I've really got to say is you don't think america killed millions of people? What about the Sioux, Lakota, Ojiwbe and other native peoples. They PURPOSELY gave the natives blankets infested with small pox. They fucked us over time and time again, and we're still getting fucked by them day after day.

Here's a lil' story about someone in my Family;
They go to the Bureau Of Indian Affairs to try and get a loan to start a business, they say they can't. The people at the BIA says the only loans we can get are $96,000 but only if you want to be a truck driver. This has been the case many, many times within members of my Family. We're fucked by the GOV'T, sending us away to small "reservations" when the white man comes in and invades our land, chasing us farther and farther away from the natural habitat, confined to small areas they call "reservations" but coming from my Family that grew up on the White Earth, MN rez "the Rez is more Jail then it is a reservation" Growing up, if you had something that was worth more then someone else, they'd get pissed and burn your fucking house down. How would you feel to be, let's say 16 with a brand new Mustang. One Indian sees it, then you're waking up rushing down the stairs, to be outside so you can live. As you're outside you're watching your house, burning because you worked and saved your money to get a car, and the other people, sometimes the white folks that didn't like you because you were part Native, and most of the time the Natives who didn't like you because you were part White. You were outta place, but growing up and having it better off then most others on the rez, they hated you. You'd pick up that you wouldn't want to live your life up there, you'd want to go and do something productive in your life.

I don't think you actually understand how the United States of America treated the Natives.

[freedom78]

I don't think you actually understand how the United States of America treated the Natives.

Have you watched Office Space lately?  Because I'm pretty sure you must have one of those Jump-to-Conclusions Mats. 

And, once again, you've proven that the ability to read words doesn't equate with the ability to understand what someone actually means.  If you've read any of my posts in this thread, you'll probably see that I am not justifying the use of violence by Americans, be it against native populations or in aggressive war to achieve foreign policy goals.  I'm simply trying to point out that some make ridiculously exaggerated claims regarding this country, and that they have no basis in reality.   

[lastroots]

Honestly, I think that this "who killed more humans" discussion is just ugly.....

Does it really matter, who killed more? No, it doesn't. Murder is murder, and every country murdered humans.

By the way, this is off topic.

[freedom78]

Honestly, I think that this "who killed more humans" discussion is just ugly.....

Does it really matter, who killed more? No, it doesn't. Murder is murder, and every country murdered humans.

By the way, this is off topic.

Agreed, on all three counts.  Anyway, back on topic.

So, um, the CIA.  All this has inspired me to perhaps pop in "The Good Shepherd" tonight, since my baseball team is on a channel I get, and the Republican debate is destined to become the Jerry Falwell tribute hour.

The coup to do away with Allende in Chile wasn't our finest hour, though you have to wonder what Chile was thinking prior to the coup.  They had just elected a Marxist leader.  The US had a tendency to be reactionary toward those types of things.  And then they nationalized US industries in Chile.  Whoops.  While I don't condone the coup, you have to wonder what Allende was thinking.  I mean, I get that he's a Marxist, but nationalizing US industries wasn't a smart move. 

[Surfrider]

This board has gone far too crazy left for my taste.  I think that is more of the reason for the conservatives leaving than anything else.  Many of the comments on this board can't even be reasoned with.  For me, it started with the threads regarding the U.S.'s role in September 11.