CIA-the most dangerous organization

[SLCPUNK]

Anyway, there's plenty  of evidence out there (and not just from those who have a stake in denying it) that the US/CIA did not fund or train Bin Laden or have any relationship with him whatsoever. The Afghan mujahideen was supported by Pakistan intelligence funneling US and Saudi money to fight the Soviet occupation...

"He received security training from the CIA itself, according to Middle Eastern analyst Hazhir Teimourian."

Who is Osama Bin Laden?


"As his unclassified CIA biography states, bin Laden left Saudi Arabia to fight the Soviet army in Afghanistan after Moscow?s invasion in 1979. By 1984, he was running a front organization known as Maktab al-Khidamar - the MAK - which funneled money, arms and fighters from the outside world into the Afghan war.

What the CIA bio conveniently fails to specify (in its unclassified form, at least) is that the MAK was nurtured by Pakistan?s state security services, the Inter-Services Intelligence agency, or ISI, the CIA?s primary conduit for conducting the covert war against Moscow?s occupation."

Bin Laden Comes Home To Roost

[gandra]

this isn't topic about Iran ecremistic regime,this is story about organiation which make a wars on the world.

Lucky,yes ex yugoslavia was a member of third world,but in secerets prisons were 95% Serbs,my grandfather was 2 years on "goli Otok".

But for ex wars everybody have same guilty,only i want to say is that "Milosevic,Tudjman,Izetbegovic are people who was in deal with CIA"

In last 1.5 years in Iraq more than 100000 people killed,is this democracy?

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

In last 1.5 years in Iraq more than 100000 people killed,is this democracy?

wtf? who are you?  .... this makes no sense.... where am i?


anyway,
the CIA ain't responsible. It's just part of a global world system where countries or actors are looking for their best interest.
if it's not the CIA,  it's something else.

[fuckin crazy]

In last 1.5 years in Iraq more than 100000 people killed,is this democracy?

100,000 people for the 5 years of occupation yes , but no way in 18 months .

[lastroots]

For the question about my Farsi: I'm learning it at University, and for the points in the original speeches that were unclear for me, I asked my teacher and other native Farsi speakers.

For the comment "Wen want to find out if the Holocaust has happened"

Yes, that is just ugly provocation. But it is clearly NOT denial.

[polluxlm]

If they had put american presidents on trial together with the nazi's at Nuremberg most of them would've gotten the death penalty.

Without Americans Presidents, the only trials at Nuremberg would have led to the slaughter of more Jews and political prisoners.? You're welcome.

Touched a nerve?

It's a fact, nothing more. Just something I like to remember before I go all holier than thou.

[stolat]

If they had put american presidents on trial together with the nazi's at Nuremberg most of them would've gotten the death penalty.

Without Americans Presidents, the only trials at Nuremberg would have led to the slaughter of more Jews and political prisoners.? You're welcome.

Touched a nerve?

It's a fact, nothing more. Just something I like to remember before I go all holier than thou.

But that makes no sense at all 

[freedom78]

If they had put american presidents on trial together with the nazi's at Nuremberg most of them would've gotten the death penalty.

Without Americans Presidents, the only trials at Nuremberg would have led to the slaughter of more Jews and political prisoners.  You're welcome.

Touched a nerve?

It's a fact, nothing more. Just something I like to remember before I go all holier than thou.

Not really...I just like to occasionally remind America's critics that we are, in fact, generally nice and generous people, and that without us the world would be a very different place, and not necessarily for the better, as many are inclined to believe. 

[stolat]

Long live Patton's men!!

[polluxlm]

Not really...I just like to occasionally remind America's critics that we are, in fact, generally nice and generous people, and that without us the world would be a very different place, and not necessarily for the better, as many are inclined to believe.?

Let's get real here. There's no denying the american public are a nice and generous people, like all free nations, but that's not what we're talking about here, is it?

The U.S. Government never entered the war on goodwill, honor or whatever. They saw an opportunity and they took it.

And that goes for all their post war actions too. Assassinations, bribes and blackmail to control other sovereign states are not excused by what some percieve as a 70 year old noble deed.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

If they had put american presidents on trial together with the nazi's at Nuremberg most of them would've gotten the death penalty.

Without Americans Presidents, the only trials at Nuremberg would have led to the slaughter of more Jews and political prisoners.? You're welcome.

Touched a nerve?

It's a fact, nothing more. Just something I like to remember before I go all holier than thou.

Not really...I just like to occasionally remind America's critics that we are, in fact, generally nice and generous people, and that without us the world would be a very different place, and not necessarily for the better, as many are inclined to believe.?

it'd better, i think so.
it doesnt mean you guys (and please, do NOT see all americans as actors of these *actions*, you guys just live there and shop at wall-mart, it'd be like if i taken credit for the Declaration of the Rights of Man ... ) ONLY do bad things, but you do a lot of bad things ...

it's a like a guy in texas ranting " yeah ! we totally kicked sadam's ass !! yeah !" > No, you're fat, bald, 35 and you live in your mom's basement, brave dumb muscular marines kicked saddam's ass, not you.

freedom78 > you really need to seperate yourself from your country. you are not flag, you are not your country.

[freedom78]

Let's get real here. There's no denying the american public are a nice and generous people, like all free nations, but that's not what we're talking about here, is it?

The U.S. Government never entered the war on goodwill, honor or whatever. They saw an opportunity and they took it.

And that goes for all their post war actions too. Assassinations, bribes and blackmail to control other sovereign states are not excused by what some percieve as a 70 year old noble deed.

Which war?  WWII?  I suppose that you can perceive US involvement as a selfish action, if you wish, but that would be to ignore its obvious benefits to the people of Western Europe. 

Also, I'd ask that you read my original post again.  I never argue that the US hasn't done despicable things.  Rather, I merely point out that it's a convenient excuse for a world that is and always has been ripe with violence.  And, of course, the accusations that fly against the US do so in a hypocrisy vacuum, wherein we completely ignore the bloody history of every other state on this Earth while putting the last 60 years of US foreign policy under a magnifying glass and making exaggerated claims about how the US has "killed more than all previous regimes in the world put together."

I have NO problem criticizing the US, and talking about its failures, but for anyone to act as if they have the moral high ground from which to do so is plain hypocrisy.  The truth of the matter is that people love to blame the US, because they can't stand the fact that life on this planet is just plain fucked up sometimes.           

[freedom78]

it doesnt mean you guys (and please, do NOT see all americans as actors of these *actions*, you guys just live there and shop at wall-mart, it'd be like if i taken credit for the Declaration of the Rights of Man ... ) ONLY do bad things, but you do a lot of bad things ...

it's a like a guy in texas ranting " yeah ! we totally kicked sadam's ass !! yeah !" > No, you're fat, bald, 35 and you live in your mom's basement, brave dumb muscular marines kicked saddam's ass, not you.

freedom78 > you really need to seperate yourself from your country. you are not flag, you are not your country.

Oh, I understand that criticism of our foreign policy isn't necessarily a criticism of our people.  And I certainly don't think of myself as an unflinching supporter of all my country does.  If you asked me to defend many of our actions, I'd have to decline.  Again, I'm just fighting the idea that the US is the problem in the world...as if the world didn't have any problems before we came along. 

BTW, WAT-EVER: love the new avatar. 

[polluxlm]

Which war?? WWII?? I suppose that you can perceive US involvement as a selfish action, if you wish, but that would be to ignore its obvious benefits to the people of Western Europe.?

Also, I'd ask that you read my original post again.? I never argue that the US hasn't done despicable things.? Rather, I merely point out that it's a convenient excuse for a world that is and always has been ripe with violence.? And, of course, the accusations that fly against the US do so in a hypocrisy vacuum, wherein we completely ignore the bloody history of every other state on this Earth while putting the last 60 years of US foreign policy under a magnifying glass and making exaggerated claims about how the US has "killed more than all previous regimes in the world put together."

I have NO problem criticizing the US, and talking about its failures, but for anyone to act as if they have the moral high ground from which to do so is plain hypocrisy.? The truth of the matter is that people love to blame the US, because they can't stand the fact that life on this planet is just plain fucked up sometimes.? ? ? ? ? ?

I know very well the bloody and hypocrit history of the worlds nations, and it will be brought up when necessary.

The situation today however is one of the US being the only super power left, and they won't hesitate to execute that power while taking cover under old dogmas and debts. If you do the shit you have to take the criticism.

I'll be the first to codemn Iran or whomever if they attack another state, but until then the focus stays on those who actually wage war.

There are no bigger hypocrits than the United States in the year 2007.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

it doesnt mean you guys (and please, do NOT see all americans as actors of these *actions*, you guys just live there and shop at wall-mart, it'd be like if i taken credit for the Declaration of the Rights of Man ... ) ONLY do bad things, but you do a lot of bad things ...

it's a like a guy in texas ranting " yeah ! we totally kicked sadam's ass !! yeah !" > No, you're fat, bald, 35 and you live in your mom's basement, brave dumb muscular marines kicked saddam's ass, not you.

freedom78 > you really need to seperate yourself from your country. you are not flag, you are not your country.

Oh, I understand that criticism of our foreign policy isn't necessarily a criticism of our people.  And I certainly don't think of myself as an unflinching supporter of all my country does.  If you asked me to defend many of our actions, I'd have to decline.  Again, I'm just fighting the idea that the US is the problem in the world...as if the world didn't have any problems before we came along. 

BTW, WAT-EVER: love the new avatar. 

fair enough

on a broader range, pollux, every nation, maybe it be THE superpower, or big nations (FR, UK ...), they never use their power - or rarely - in the name of peace, and goodness.
everything is linked to private interests.

USA is facing critics cause with big powers come big responsabilities.
But i can assure you that other western countries are quite happy to be out of the spotlight.

one step would be to stop aiming at the government, but at private companies.
THEY are ruinging the world. THEY are the virus.
and i am sorry, but Free Market is the evil.
but again, we're not ready. we are just starting to realize.
just like communism failed to exist, Capitalism will fail soon, in a very tragic way. a very violent way.

[lastroots]

Which war?  WWII?  I suppose that you can perceive US involvement as a selfish action, if you wish, but that would be to ignore its obvious benefits to the people of Western Europe. 

Also, I'd ask that you read my original post again.  I never argue that the US hasn't done despicable things.  Rather, I merely point out that it's a convenient excuse for a world that is and always has been ripe with violence.  And, of course, the accusations that fly against the US do so in a hypocrisy vacuum, wherein we completely ignore the bloody history of every other state on this Earth while putting the last 60 years of US foreign policy under a magnifying glass and making exaggerated claims about how the US has "killed more than all previous regimes in the world put together."

I have NO problem criticizing the US, and talking about its failures, but for anyone to act as if they have the moral high ground from which to do so is plain hypocrisy.  The truth of the matter is that people love to blame the US, because they can't stand the fact that life on this planet is just plain fucked up sometimes.           

I know very well the bloody and hypocrit history of the worlds nations, and it will be brought up when necessary.

The situation today however is one of the US being the only super power left, and they won't hesitate to execute that power while taking cover under old dogmas and debts. If you do the shit you have to take the criticism.

I'll be the first to codemn Iran or whomever if they attack another state, but until then the focus stays on those who actually wage war.

There are no bigger hypocrits than the United States in the year 2007.

Seconded.

I have absolutely no problem in crticising Germany, Iran or who fucking ever. All of them have done bad things in their history and I never denied that.

But at first, this is a thread about the AMERICAN secret ageny CIA, not about other countries' histories.
And second, in fact the world we live in TODAY would be way more peaceful without the US foreign policies.

[polluxlm]

one step would be to stop aiming at the government, but at private companies.
THEY are ruinging the world. THEY are the virus.
and i am sorry, but Free Market is the evil.
but again, we're not ready. we are just starting to realize.
just like communism failed to exist, Capitalism will fail soon, in a very tragic way. a very violent way.

True, but first the protector (government) of the system must be brought down. This will happen in our life time. One can only hope it will be more peacefull than last time.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

man, i just realized i said that we needed to take down L'Oreal ....  *runs and hides*

[stolat]

Yes, I'd be running and hiding after that one too! 

[freedom78]

I know very well the bloody and hypocrit history of the worlds nations, and it will be brought up when necessary.

It's necessary NOW!  Everyone's so concerned about the US's abuses of power that they neglect all the other violence in the world. 

The situation today however is one of the US being the only super power left, and they won't hesitate to execute that power while taking cover under old dogmas and debts. If you do the shit you have to take the criticism.

If you believe in realism, then that's how you'd expect it to work. 

There are no bigger hypocrits than the United States in the year 2007.

How so?  I see so many other nations who criticize the US, yet do very little to assuage all the suffering and war in the world that has nothing to do with US involvement.  The US failed to stop the Rwandan genocide.  Then again, so did everyone else.  Is your country currently stopping the violence in Darfur?  Nope.  Hypocrisy isn't acting badly.  Hypocrisy is taking a principled, moral position, while effectively doing nothing to actually support it.   

on a broader range, pollux, every nation, maybe it be THE superpower, or big nations (FR, UK ...), they never use their power - or rarely - in the name of peace, and goodness.
everything is linked to private interests.

At least someone gets my point and, yes, the things done in the name of profit and a good bottom line are very very sad.

USA is facing critics cause with big powers come big responsabilities.
But i can assure you that other western countries are quite happy to be out of the spotlight.

This raises another problem with criticism of the US.  There are two distinct, critical voices out there.  First are those who resent US power (and the uses and abuses of it), and who want us back in our pre-WWII isolationist box.  Second are those who want us to use our power in cooperative and beneficial ways.  Of course, both can't be done, simultaneously.  The moment the US goes isolationist will be the same moment that someone, somewhere says "but we need you."  Of course, if the liberal view of collective security had a strong track record, which it doesn't, that would solve the problem. 

But at first, this is a thread about the AMERICAN secret ageny CIA, not about other countries' histories.

I certainly wasn't the first to take it off topic, as it went from a CIA thread to America bashing.

And second, in fact the world we live in TODAY would be way more peaceful without the US foreign policies.

That's guesswork, at best.  Take the US out of the last 60 years, and Europe is either under Nazi or Soviet rule.  Without the US, do you think the Soviet's would have been a more responsible super power?

Of course, I'm NOT saying that US policy is right or justified, but you simply cannot pin all the violence in the world on the US.  However, I'm sure someone will try.