Ending the war in Iraq...

[fuckin crazy]

here is intersting the interview of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad from channel 4.

> http://contreinfo.info/article.php3?id_article=1235

extracts on the war in iraq:

Q : Mr President, thank you very much for agreeing to talk to us tonight. Let me start with Iraq. Both the UK and the US have accused Iran of fighting a proxy war inside Iraq. Is that true ?

A : In the name of God, first I would like to express my greetings to all your good audience and a good evening to all the people of England.

What you are saying is an allegation ; we also accuse the English and the US of occupying and violating Iraq. I think the US and Britain should amend their own views and behaviour ; if they want to blame others for their defeat then they can be sure that their defeats will be repeated.

Obviously we do distinguish differences between England and the US in Iraq. We think that the British government has more quickly and more successfully realised the situation in Iraq, and withdrawing from Basra was the right thing to do and we hope they will continue this.

We are the country that has sustained the most damage from the lack of security in Iraq because the nations of Iraq and Iran are closely intertwined - our nations have been friends for thousands of years. Every year millions of Iraqis and Iranians travel to each others? countries and the security of Iraq has a direct impact on our security and vice versa. We want security in Iraq. And let me tell you one thing - you know the people of Iraq are a great nation with culture and civilisation, they have always been against occupations and they still are.



and a recent article about Ahmadinejad wanting a debate with good ol' W:

> http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,22431065-5001028,00.html


IRANIAN President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad wants a public debate with his US counterpart George W. Bush at the UN this month and a "global referendum" on who's right.

He didn't answer the question.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

he does later, it was just an extract, click the link read the rest.

But hey, he's a politician afterall, do our leaders answer questions?

[GeraldFord]

[DevilHatesALoser]

^ That is funny

[Bill 213]

Well Blackwater USA's Iraq contract has been pulled due to their unjustified killings of 8 Iraqi civilians and 1 Iraqi police officer.  Bush's mercenary side army is really schlepping it up.  Eh, at least we only wasted $1 Billion on their contract. 

[fuckin crazy]

Well Blackwater USA's Iraq contract has been pulled due to their unjustified killings of 8 Iraqi civilians and 1 Iraqi police officer. Bush's mercenary side army is really schlepping it up. Eh, at least we only wasted $1 Billion on their contract.

While it might put a momentary strain on US forces, there are plenty of mercenaries that will take up the slack. I would think a good majority of Blackwater's SOFs will just change employers.

[fuckin crazy]

PRESS RELEASE
[contact phone numbers removed to protect privacy
since I am forwarding this to many lists around the
country - Just attend demo if you are in NYC area]

Monday, September 17, 2007

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

SDS KICKS OFF THE IRAQ MORATORIUM AT THE NEW SCHOOL ON
9-21-07

New York, NY. The New School chapter of the Students
for a Democratic Society (SDS) is joining with
community organizations from around the country to
build the Iraq Moratorium and is calling for students,
workers, and faculty to participate in the first of a
series of escalating monthly actions to end the
occupation of Iraq. The first demonstration will be
held on Friday, September 21,
2007. Participants are asked to assemble at 12:00 p.m.
at the New School for Social Research on 65 5th Avenue
(between 13th and 14th Streets) in lower Manhattan.
Once assembled, participants will march north up 5th
Avenue to the Empire State Building (350 5th Ave.) to
demonstrate outside the office of Lockheed Martin, a
corporation that in
2005 reaped more than $19.4 billion in military
contracts from war and occupation in Iraq and
Afghanistan.

"Poverty grows and the killing continues while
Lockheed Martin gets rich off the suffering of others,
and we will be standing together to let them know that
they are not welcome in our city." says Atlee McFelon,
an SDS organizer at the New School for Social
Research. "It's unfortunate that the U.S. has been
engaged in a military occupation of Iraq since 2003
and yet the Left in general, and the anti-war movement
in particular, has been unable to implement effective
strategies to bring the occupation to an end and
develop visionary alternatives to the capitalist
system. We plan on changing that."

Event organizers believe that September 21st will be
the beginning of a surge in militant actions against
the imperialist occupation of the Middle East by the
U.S. According to the British Opinion Research
Business, more than 1.2 million Iraqis have been
killed by the U.S. occupation since 2003. Organizers
hope that the slow train wreck in Iraq will clarify
the present social system's inability to give the vast
majority of the world's population good jobs, quality
education, adequate shelter, quality medical services,
and peace. Only by building a movement with a critical
analysis of the present institutions of oppression, an
uncompromising revolutionary vision, and long-term
strategic programs will our generation be able to pass
on a society built on the values of solidarity,
freedom, self-management, justice, diversity, and
equality. To begin this process, the people must force
the U.S. government to immediately transfer resources
to fund the creation of jobs, universal higher
education, public housing programs, universal
healthcare, and reparations for the people of Iraq and
Afghanistan.

"Now, more than ever, with the death toll approaching
2 million, it is of utmost importance for us to
struggle for an immediate end to these horrifying
atrocities." says Meaghan Linick, an SDS organizer
from Eugene Lang College. "This series of escalating
actions is necessary for us to continue building a
movement that is visionary, strategic, and has the
size and power to effectively end the illegal
occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, and all forms of
U.S. imperialism and exploitation."

The occupation, torture, and mass murder in Iraq have
gone on for too long and it is time for the people of
the U.S. to stand in solidarity with the people of the
Middle East and begin raising the social costs for the
political parties and corporate institutions that
directly profit from and seek to maintain the
imperialist domination of the Middle East. Through
nationally coordinated local actions that allow
communities to choose appropriate levels of
commitment, SDS hopes to attract an increasingly
larger number of people into the anti-war movement,
solidify revolutionary commitments, and build power in
communities to abolish not only the Iraq War, but all
institutions that produce wars and injustice.

In the words of the Italian revolutionary Antonio
Gramsci, "It is necessary with bold spirit and in good
conscience, to save civilization. We must halt the
dissolution which corrodes and corrupts the roots of
human society. The bare and barren tree can be made
green again. Are we not ready?"

If YOU are ready, we will see you on September 21st,
October 19th, November 16th, and the third Friday of
every month until we bring the U.S. occupation of the
Middle East to a halt!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE! - SDS

[JMack]

? ? Mercs aren't usually known to the President so to protect him.? They are hired by alphabet soup agencies and Foreign governments for security reasons or for other reasons that are well? secret.? The US is paying for these groups because Iraqi government isn't.? The US isn't the only country paying either there are other countries involved.? Some of the counter terrorist units formation ideas came from the President, but never monitored or followed up on by the President.?(Not Bush either) Anyway, If caught all involved would be considered rogue and left unprotected, or gotten out of a hostile territory and arrested and then a stint at Petersburg Federal Prison would follow.? (It's now a max. security but not so much years ago).? Some prisoners had weekend passes to continue "working".
? ?During Viet Nam the CIA hired Chinese mercs for security.
? ?There are so many countries all around the world that have the same type of security companies.? It is true that after retiring from the military many guys go into the private security business.? It is also true that the Black Water guys will continue working for another company or a new company.? If it's done in the business sector than why wouldn't it happen in this area of employment after all it is a business.
? ? If you think the President is personally signing contracts for mercs. your wrong.? The defense dept., CIA and those more secretive agencies do the hiring and congress will allow the appropriations to do so.? There are some agencies that do not have to give a budget to congress.? These are the real spooks and it has to be that way for many reasons.? All countries have this stuff to some degree or they just have a country like the US, Brits, Australia or Russia, China ect..to protect their interests.
? ?"It's the game within the game" to steal the title of Walt Clyde Fraziers Book.? Which is a good read for anyone interested.

[JMack]

The Book, the video game or the bush hunters?

[fuckin crazy]

It would also be cool if you could look at the title of this thread and respect the universal spelling of Iraq.

Iraq, Clusterfuck, Quagmire ... it all means the same thing.

[SLCPUNK]

It would also be cool if you could look at the title of this thread and respect the universal spelling of Iraq.

Iraq, Clusterfuck, Quagmire ... it all means the same thing.

Well played.

[The Dog]

Polls: Distaste for Iraq war unchanged

WASHINGTON - Gen. David Petraeus' report to Congress and President Bush's nationally televised address have had little impact on Americans' distaste for the Iraq war and their desire to withdraw U.S. troops, polls show.
ADVERTISEMENT

Fifty-four percent still favor bringing the troops home as soon as possible, a measurement that has not changed in months, according to a poll released Tuesday by the nonpartisan Pew Research Center. And despite slight improvements in peoples' views of military progress, more said the U.S. will likely fail in Iraq than succeed by 47 percent to 42 percent, about the same margin as in July.

Nearly half, or 49 percent, said Bush should remove more troops than he announced he would last week, when he said he would withdraw some forces but leave at least 130,000 in Iraq at least until next summer. Thirty-eight percent said Bush's plan goes far enough.

Overall, two out of three said their views on the war had not been changed by presentations last week by Bush and Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq.

In a separate survey by CBS News, fewer than a third said the roughly 30,000 additional troops Bush sent to the war zone this year have made things better, while the rest said they have had no impact or made things worse. That was similar to the findings of a CBS News-New York Times poll taken days before the remarks by Petraeus and Bush.

Only 22 percent said they are willing to keep large numbers of U.S. troops in Iraq longer than two more years, largely unchanged from the previous survey. Nearly half, or 49 percent, said they should stay less than a year while 23 percent said they should remain for a year or two.

Even so, people expect the troops to stay longer than they would like. Only a third said they believe large U.S. forces will be in Iraq for two years or less.

The Pew poll was conducted Sept. 12-16 and involved telephone interviews with 1,501 adults. It had a margin of sampling error of plus or minus three percentage points.

The CBS News poll was conducted Sept. 14-16 and involved telephone interviews with 706 adults nationwide. The margin of sampling error was plus or minus four percentage points.

[SLCPUNK]

By Susan Cornwell 1 hour, 45 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Senate Republicans blocked a plan on Wednesday to give U.S. troops in Iraq more home leave, defeating a proposal widely seen as the Democrats' best near-term chance to change President George W. Bush's Iraq strategy.

The measure to give troops as much rest time at home as they spent on their most recent tour overseas needed 60 votes to pass in the Democratic-controlled Senate; it received just 56 votes, with 44 against.

It had been offered by Sen. Jim Webb, a decorated Vietnam veteran and former Navy secretary. The Democrat said U.S. troops are being "burned out" by repeated redeployments to Iraq, with tours of up to 15 months and less than a year off in between.

The plan was strongly opposed by the Bush administration -- Pentagon Secretary Robert Gates called it a backdoor attempt to pull troops off the battlefield in the unpopular Iraq war, and said he would recommend Bush veto it if it passed. A similar bill has passed the House.

Democrats have struggled all year to pass legislation winding down the Iraq war, and they have other proposals waiting in the wings, including some that explicitly require combat troop pullouts. But these are considered even less likely than Webb's to get any time soon the 60 votes often required to advance under Senate rules.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat, vowed not to give up. "We on this side of the aisle are not going to stop waging the hard but necessary fight to responsibly end this war," he said before the vote, adding that Republicans were "more interested in protecting their president than protecting the troops."

After the Webb measure failed, Republicans proposed a non-binding "sense of the Senate" supporting the goal of the Webb plan if operational conditions permit. But it also failed to get the 60 votes required, after Webb announced he opposed it and asked others to vote against it.

After appearing to gain momentum in recent days, Webb's proposal won the votes of just six of Bush's fellow Republicans on Wednesday. That was one Republican less than Webb's plan persuaded in a previous vote in July.

The senator who switched was Webb's fellow Virginian John Warner, also a former Navy secretary and an influential Republican voice on military matters. He announced on Wednesday he could not support the Webb plan again because it could extend tours of duty for units already in the war zone.

"I agree with the principles that you have laid down in your amendment," the 80-year-old Warner said during debate.

"But I regret to say that I've been convinced by those in the professional uniform that they cannot do it, and do it in a way that wouldn't invoke further unfairness to other soldiers now serving in Iraq."

Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain, a presidential contender, said the rejection of the plan was related to U.S. Iraq commander General David Petraeus' and Ambassador Ryan Crocker's testimony to Congress last week and their "sound argument that we are succeeding" in Iraq.

McCain argued that Webb's plan was unconstitutional. "We have one commander in chief and one only."

Fellow Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, a co-sponsor of Webb's plan, said Republican senators were heavily lobbied by the administration against the measure.

"The White House has been very effective of making this a loyalty test for the party," Hagel said after the vote.

Webb had tried to make the proposal acceptable to the Bush administration, including a presidential waiver in operational emergencies and a 120-day enactment period so the Pentagon could make needed adjustments.

[SLCPUNK]

Ok.... so only 30% of the country wants us out of Iraq.  We're going to reduce troop numbers, so I think we're accomodating most of what people want.  Of course there is some public concern, but the outcry isn't shared by as many as you'd think.  There is a small, vocal minority that gets alot of attention.  The opinions of the majority of members on this board are no way in touch with America.

Wow, imagine that! Dim pulling numbers out of thin air again...

Polls: Distaste for Iraq war unchanged

WASHINGTON - Gen. David Petraeus' report to Congress and President Bush's nationally televised address have had little impact on Americans' distaste for the Iraq war and their desire to withdraw U.S. troops, polls show.

Fifty-four percent still favor bringing the troops home as soon as possible, a measurement that has not changed in months, according to a poll released Tuesday by the nonpartisan Pew Research Center. And despite slight improvements in peoples' views of military progress, more said the U.S. will likely fail in Iraq than succeed by 47 percent to 42 percent, about the same margin as in July.

[DevilHatesALoser]

I think you're getting topics confused again.  I simply used the numbers Butters provided.  You're still too fucking dumb to read your own article.  Bringing the troops home as soon as possible doesn't mean an immediate withdrawl.  In fact, I would say bringing the troops home as soon as possible is what everyone wants.  Defining when "possible" is is the question.  You'd be able to grasp that though if you hadn't dropped out of college.

[stolat]

It would also be cool if you could look at the title of this thread and respect the universal spelling of Iraq.

Iraq, Clusterfuck, Quagmire ... it all means the same thing.

Well played.

At least those words are spelt correctly!

[SLCPUNK]

Bringing the troops home as soon as possible doesn't mean an immediate withdrawl.

Says you.

C'mon, don't get all bill Clinton on me now........

The problem is that you keep trying to paint those who want us out of Iraq as "extremists" and a minority, which simply is not true. Just as you try to label guys like me in the same light. To oppose waging wars on countries who didn't threaten us, adhering to international law, domestic law, the Constitution, are not "extreme."

Of course you also forget, that I was right about everything regarding Iraq, while your side was dead wrong, 100 percent.

[DevilHatesALoser]

Bringing the troops home as soon as possible doesn't mean an immediate withdrawl.

Says you.

C'mon, don't get all bill Clinton on me now........

The problem is that you keep trying to paint those who want us out of Iraq as "extremists" and a minority, which simply is not true. Just as you try to label guys like me in the same light. To oppose waging wars on countries who didn't threaten us, adhering to international law, domestic law, the Constitution, are not "extreme."

Of course you also forget, that I was right about everything regarding Iraq, while your side was dead wrong, 100 percent.

I could give a fuck about international law.  I care only about Domestic law and our Constitution.  I will not comment on the Iraq war with regard to our Constitution.

[SLCPUNK]

I could give a fuck about international law.  I care only about Domestic law and our Constitution.  I will not comment on the Iraq war with regard to our Constitution.

Well that says it all right there doesn't it.

This comes from a guy who thinks our old people (Americans remember) should die in the street like dogs, simply because they are old and a waste of tax payer money.

[freedom78]

I could give a fuck about international law.  I care only about Domestic law and our Constitution.  I will not comment on the Iraq war with regard to our Constitution.

Well that says it all right there doesn't it.

This comes from a guy who thinks our old people (Americans remember) should die in the street like dogs, simply because they are old and a waste of tax payer money.

No reasonable capitalist wants old people to die in the street like dogs. What a waste!   Rather, we drastically reduce the supply of adult diapers, build a DiaperDome, and allow them to fight it out with only one rule: "Two geezers enter; one geezer leaves."  Then we get sponsors and package it all for Pay-per-view TV!