Ending the war in Iraq...

[GeraldFord]

The Republicans like to talk about how all the Democrats are all about "defeatism." The Republicans like slogans, such as "winning the war on terrorism," "victory in Iraq," etc.

But what exactly does "victory in Iraq" mean? If you are talking about stabilizing the country and setting up some Western style democracy, it's just not going to happen. It wont. Never in a million years. The fact of the matter is, the invasion was based on lies and deceit, the Iraqi people want us out and there is really no end in sight.

There is a difference between being a defeatist and wanting to put an end to a lost cause. There are no good options, really. Obviously "Staying the course," another slogan, is a failure. Leaving Iraq, however, could be catastrophic, destabilizing the region and causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians. So what do you do? Phased withdrawal and talking with Iraq's neighbors seems to be the least worst option.

(1) Take out half of the military. As of now the US presence is a huge magnet for terrorists and is fueling anti-US sentiment around the world. If the US presence was reduced fifty-percent, the region could still be held together and the US pulling out half of its troops could be seen as an act of faith that they wont be there forever.

(2) Talk with Iran and Syria. The idea that the US should just flat out not talk to these countries and not try to work with them is asinine. Was Richard Nixon wrong to visit China? Was the US wrong to have diplomatic relations with the USSR during the Cold War?  So let's sit down with Iran and Syria and see if we can't put our heads together and work out some solutions to help stabilize Iraq once the US leaves.

(3) Have the Iraq's rebuild Iraq, not US contractors. It will help get their economy going and give the people a sense of empowerment.

The US government owes it to the Iraqi civilians and the US troops to end this conflict at soon as possible. So let's stop with the name calling. "Defeatist" is just plain stupid and inaccurate.

[SLCPUNK]

Well, as usual the right wing's claim that the Dems want out of Iraq altogether is not true, a false argument.

I'm curious how everybody is able to see into the future here? Everybody seems to have a crystal ball and knows what is going to happen when we exit? I'm supposed to believe the same people who told me "WMD", "Mushroom cloud", and "greet us as liberators", when they tell me of the ruin and destruction that will take place once we leave?

Yea right.

[GeraldFord]

Since Iraq is in chaos, I don't think it's implausible that a complete withdrawal could lead to total anarchy, with the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians. That's more plausible than the WMD bullshit. We owe it to these people to at least try to give them a country that isn't a hell on earth. We should not have invaded and we need to leave, ASAP. But we have to be smart about it.

[fuckin crazy]

It is in no more chaos than Vietnam was in the 60s or Beirut was in the 80s. The people of Iraq have to work this out for themselves.

[Communist China]

If we leave now God will bring his rath upon us. He wants us to win the war.

[stolat]

If we leave now God will bring his rath upon us. He wants us to win the war.

Not my God!

[Timothy]

If we leave now God will bring his rath upon us. He wants us to win the war.

Not my God!

your god is dead.

[Communist China]

If we leave now God will bring his rath upon us. He wants us to win the war.

Not my God!

your god is dead.

and no one cares!

[Timothy]

If we leave now God will bring his rath upon us. He wants us to win the war.

Not my God!

your god is dead.

and no one cares!

if there is a hell.......

[Communist China]

If we leave now God will bring his rath upon us. He wants us to win the war.

Not my God!

your god is dead.

and no one cares!

if there is a hell.......

I'll see you there!

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Since Iraq is in chaos, I don't think it's implausible that a complete withdrawal could lead to total anarchy, with the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians. That's more plausible than the WMD bullshit. We owe it to these people to at least try to give them a country that isn't a hell on earth. We should not have invaded and we need to leave, ASAP. But we have to be smart about it.

I actually agree with you!!  I do not agree with some of your ideas on how to leave, but we do need to leave at some point.

As soon as Iraq can manage its security our job is done. But until that happens we need to provide the security to prevent total anarchy. If anarchy exists, some Islamic religious zealot will take power and create an even bigger mess. Most Iraqis don't want that. But Iraqis need to get their shit together and do the jobs that we are doing now.

[norway]

Sure leave, and all Irakik people leave USA...peace for both!

[stolat]

Sure leave, and all Irakik people leave USA...peace for both!

You have a rather.........interesting view of the world Norway. How's the ducted heating? What's the weather like outside...............oh, you probably wouldn't know............

[SLCPUNK]

I would be willing to bet that the forces in Iraq, would again, be able to keep a lid on the pot, just like they did before we arrived.

I would also not be surprised if Bush sets up another dictator to do so. It has already been considered.

[norway]

How'sthe ducted heating? What's the weather like outside...............oh, you probably wouldn't know............

What is ducted heating, and why wouldn't I know how the weather is outside.

On that topic,
I'd like to see less spam on this forum and less of these assholes that has nothing better to do than start flamewars, being hostile and insultive.

Hopefully they achieve stability in irak again

[stolat]

Everyone in Norway has ducted heating!

[SLCPUNK]

Since Iraq is in chaos, I don't think it's implausible that a complete withdrawal could lead to total anarchy

You are drinking the right wing kool aide, the Dems plan is not "cut n run" as they would like you to believe. I said this in my first post.

Our problem, is that we have been so propagandized, we actually believe our system is the best. For these people, it is obviously not.

[SLCPUNK]

I actually agree with you!!  I do not agree with some of your ideas on how to leave, but we do need to leave at some point.

As soon as Iraq can manage its security our job is done. But until that happens we need to provide the security to prevent total anarchy. If anarchy exists, some Islamic religious zealot will take power and create an even bigger mess. Most Iraqis don't want that. But Iraqis need to get their shit together and do the jobs that we are doing now.

The Iraq government decided to take a month off (Taking Bush's advice I figure), the Sunni bloc of their government just left, and the Kurds are threatening civil war.

The puppet government we are tying to prop up now, can't stay together. What makes you think they can get it together at all, much less after we leave?

[norway]

we have been so propagandized

You hit the nail on the head here
USA did something, people of certain cultures bombs them and they "cutn'run" in some peoples eyes.

Not sure this is the right time for them to leave Irak since they already are there, how cool if Irak would end up respecting universal values/"rules"
You can say the same about USA tho.

It isn't the most credible messenger to say it that way, but the ideal is to achieve peace for both.

[stolat]

we have been so propagandized

You hit the nail on the head here
USA did something, people of certain cultures bombs them and they "cutn'run" in some peoples eyes.

Not sure this is the right time for them to leave Irak since they already are there, how cool Irak would end up respecting universal values/"rules"You can say the same about USA tho.

It isn't the most credible messenger to say it that way, but the ideal is to achieve peace for both.

It would also be cool if you could look at the title of this thread and respect the universal spelling of Iraq.