Baz "axl is getting ready to put out chinese democracy"

[jarmo]

Well that's been the fucking plan for 8+ years.  So am I out of line here by saying that they might consider getting a new fucking plan!!!  Or more effective tactics to complete that plan. What's your clever little response going to be this time??

You're the one who asked a stupid question.

I thought you were a realist and not a dumb ass.... 



Sure, it's been the plan for a while but the album wasn't 100% done years ago, now was it?

You're offering answers to problems you have no fucking clue about. Which is very nice of you, but pretty fucking useless.


What happened to the realist? If you're such a realist, shouldn't you be aware that in the real world, things don't always go according to plan?

You're the realist who claims to look at things from a rational point of view.  Why is it that with your kind of people, that point of view always means that you have to side against the band you claim to support?

You guys have your own little dictionary.

Rational person, objective, realist = everything the band says is a lie and nobody from the band's camp has ever told the truth.
Fan = put down the band and other fans, ridicule them on all possible occasions.
Real fans = people who go to fan sites to post shit about how much that band sucks and who know what's best for the band.
Tentative = a promise
Set list = something that's up to me to decide even if I'm not at the show in question.




/jarmo

[Bartlet]

I'd rather be excited and get let down than remain a jaded, desponded skeptic my whole life. But hey that's me.

What's that supposed to mean?  I said I wouldn't take what they say too seriously because it's not like they're gonna say it's a letdown.  Hopefully it's great, but I wouldn't get my hopes up just because of comments that are almost certainly biased in some way.  I'd rather be a realist, and not a dumbass, but hey that just me!

Realist?

Hahaha.


Yeah, I expect all future albums by my favorite artists to suck! Does that make me a realist? 





/jarmo

you must get really tired jarmo - constantly looking for a route around passed the point.

[novrain91]

Oh and one other thing.  It seems like a lot of people on here think that Axl is getting screwed over somehow and that's why it's not being released yet.  I think you're probably wrong.  I read the Playboy interview with David Geffen last night (he's the gay billionaire founder of Geffen Records) and it was from 1994.  In it he talked about the One in a Million controversy and Axl's choice to include the Charles Manson song on an album.  Both times he was told by bandmembers and Geffen himself that it would cause him unneeded controversy and set back, but for some reason he was adamant on releasing those songs anyway.  I'm a big fan of Axl, but stories like those don't paint a picture of that great of a decision maker.  I wouldn't be suprised if him getting in his own way is the main reason for all of the delays,etc..  Make of that what you will.

[jarmo]

you must get really tired jarmo - constantly looking for a route around passed the point.

No, not really. I've been there before.


I remember in 1991. I was excited about the fact that the band were finishing an album and getting ready to release it. I was expecting it to be great.

I didn't expect it to be bad....


Same goes for 2008.

I guess I'm not a realist. 


Aren't you done in this thread? We know you hate Baz and you don't want to hear what he has to say.

Oh and one other thing.  It seems like a lot of people on here think that Axl is getting screwed over somehow and that's why it's not being released yet.  I think you're probably wrong.  I read the Playboy interview with David Geffen last night (he's the gay billionaire founder of Geffen Records) and it was from 1994.  In it he talked about the One in a Million controversy and Axl's choice to include the Charles Manson song on an album.  Both times he was told by bandmembers and Geffen himself that it would cause him unneeded controversy and set back, but for some reason he was adamant on releasing those songs anyway.  I'm a big fan of Axl, but stories like those don't paint a picture of that great of a decision maker.  I wouldn't be suprised if him getting in his own way is the main reason for all of the delays,etc..  Make of that what you will.

Hey, that's a new interview you found! 1994! Cool!


You know what it speaks volumes of? Integrity. Doing what you think is right instead of doing what others tell you to do.

It's not your album, it's his. Of course he has the fucking right to make sure everything is the way he intends them to be.

He doesn't owe you shit!

So stop acting like it.





/jarmo

[novrain91]

Oh and one other thing.  It seems like a lot of people on here think that Axl is getting screwed over somehow and that's why it's not being released yet.  I think you're probably wrong.  I read the Playboy interview with David Geffen last night (he's the gay billionaire founder of Geffen Records) and it was from 1994.  In it he talked about the One in a Million controversy and Axl's choice to include the Charles Manson song on an album.  Both times he was told by bandmembers and Geffen himself that it would cause him unneeded controversy and set back, but for some reason he was adamant on releasing those songs anyway.  I'm a big fan of Axl, but stories like those don't paint a picture of that great of a decision maker.  I wouldn't be suprised if him getting in his own way is the main reason for all of the delays,etc..  Make of that what you will.

Hey, that's a new interview you found! 1994! Cool!


You know what it speaks volumes of? Integrity. Doing what you think is right instead of doing what others tell you to do.

It's not your album, it's his. Of course he has the fucking right to make sure everything is the way he intends them to be.

He doesn't owe you shit!

So stop acting like it.

/jarmo
[/quote]


Well Axl hasn't released a new original album for 17 years, that's very cool too! This interview was 3 years after that and with a guy who is considered by many to be the smartest man in hollywood.  Oh and I wouldn't bring up integrity with this argument. You want me to believe that Axl's integrity of doing what was "right" was to release a song that appeared to be bashing gays, black, and immigrants and another song thats royalites at first (later it was changed) went to Charles Manson who was responsable for numerous people's deaths??  He doesn't owe me shit and I don't owe him shit, but that doesn't mean I can't have an honest opinion about what is going on with my favorite band.  Just cause Axl Rose or Guns N Roses has fucked up and I call them on it, doesn't mean I don't think the band's amazing, it just means you're honest enough to admit when something is fucked up.  Something that you apparently are incapable of...pull the wool down and take a look at the "reality" of the situation bud!

[Bartlet]

you must get really tired jarmo - constantly looking for a route around passed the point.
[/quote

Oh and one other thing.  It seems like a lot of people on here think that Axl is getting screwed over somehow and that's why it's not being released yet.  I think you're probably wrong.  I read the Playboy interview with David Geffen last night (he's the gay billionaire founder of Geffen Records) and it was from 1994.  In it he talked about the One in a Million controversy and Axl's choice to include the Charles Manson song on an album.  Both times he was told by bandmembers and Geffen himself that it would cause him unneeded controversy and set back, but for some reason he was adamant on releasing those songs anyway.  I'm a big fan of Axl, but stories like those don't paint a picture of that great of a decision maker.  I wouldn't be suprised if him getting in his own way is the main reason for all of the delays,etc..  Make of that what you will.

Hey, that's a new interview you found! 1994! Cool!


You know what it speaks volumes of? Integrity. Doing what you think is right instead of doing what others tell you to do.

It's not your album, it's his. Of course he has the fucking right to make sure everything is the way he intends them to be.

He doesn't owe you shit!

So stop acting like it.

/jarmo

Well Axl hasn't released a new original album for 17 years, that's very cool too! This interview was 3 years after that and with a guy who is considered by many to be the smartest man in hollywood.  Oh and I wouldn't bring up integrity with this argument. You want me to believe that Axl's integrity of doing what was "right" was to release a song that appeared to be bashing gays, black, and immigrants and another song thats royalites at first (later it was changed) went to Charles Manson who was responsable for numerous people's deaths??  He doesn't owe me shit and I don't owe him shit, but that doesn't mean I can't have an honest opinion about what is going on with my favorite band.  Just cause Axl Rose or Guns N Roses has fucked up and I call them on it, doesn't mean I don't think the band's amazing, it just means you're honest enough to admit when something is fucked up.  Something that you apparently are uncapable of...pull the wool down and take a look at the "reality" of the situation bud!

pull the wool down? like on a turtle neck? See, i woulda said pull it up, like a beany hat.

meh. each to his own.

[jarmo]

Well Axl hasn't released a new original album for 17 years, that's very cool too!

Yeah, it's not up to you or me to decide when he has to release albums.

The sooner this idea makes it's way into your head and you start thinking about how ridiculous it is to whine about it, you'll feel a lot better.   

This interview was 3 years after that and with a guy who is considered by many to be the smartest man in hollywood.  Oh and I wouldn't bring up integrity with this argument. You want me to believe that Axl's integrity of doing what was "right" was to release a song that appeared to be bashing gays, black, and immigrants and another song thats royalites at first (later it was changed) went to Charles Manson who was responsable for numerous people's deaths?? 

Then you don't know what integrity is I'm afraid....

He learned pretty fast that people only saw One In A Million as a theme song for close minded racist fucks.

He doesn't owe me shit and I don't owe him shit, but that doesn't mean I can't have an honest opinion about what is going on with my favorite band.  Just cause Axl Rose or Guns N Roses has fucked up and I call them on it, doesn't mean I don't think the band's amazing, it just means you're honest enough to admit when something is fucked up.  Something that you apparently are uncapable of...pull th wool down and take a look bud!

Another one who has to try to insult me because he thinks he's such a realistic / objective fan.

 


You know what the REAL difference is?

I'm aware that things haven't gone as planned, just like you. But unlike you, I'm open minded and understand that everything has happened for a reason or reasons.

And no, it's not just "because it's Axl". That's your easy answers to everything. That and "put out the album!".


For a realist, you sure as hell live in a simple world where everything goes according to plan and your wishes seem to be granted......



By the way, the guy whose name is in this thread's subject actually told Axl something like "you should put it out".....  Your route of problem solving has been tried already.



/jarmo

[novrain91]

Well Axl hasn't released a new original album for 17 years, that's very cool too!

Yeah, it's not up to you or me to decide when he has to release albums.

The sooner this idea makes it's way into your head and you start thinking about how ridiculous it is to whine about it, you'll feel a lot better.  

This interview was 3 years after that and with a guy who is considered by many to be the smartest man in hollywood.  Oh and I wouldn't bring up integrity with this argument. You want me to believe that Axl's integrity of doing what was "right" was to release a song that appeared to be bashing gays, black, and immigrants and another song thats royalites at first (later it was changed) went to Charles Manson who was responsable for numerous people's deaths?? 

Then you don't know what integrity is I'm afraid....

He learned pretty fast that people only saw One In A Million as a theme song for close minded racist fucks.

He doesn't owe me shit and I don't owe him shit, but that doesn't mean I can't have an honest opinion about what is going on with my favorite band.  Just cause Axl Rose or Guns N Roses has fucked up and I call them on it, doesn't mean I don't think the band's amazing, it just means you're honest enough to admit when something is fucked up.  Something that you apparently are uncapable of...pull th wool down and take a look bud!

Another one who has to try to insult me because he thinks he's such a realistic / objective fan.

 


You know what the REAL difference is?

I'm aware that things haven't gone as planned, just like you. But unlike you, I'm open minded and understand that everything has happened for a reason or reasons.

And no, it's not just "because it's Axl". That's your easy answers to everything. That and "put out the album!".


For a realist, you sure as hell live in a simple world where everything goes according to plan and your wishes seem to be granted......



By the way, the guy whose name is in this thread's subject actually told Axl something like "you should put it out".....  Your route of problem solving has been tried already.



/jarmo

"He learned pretty fast that people only saw One In A Million as a theme song for close minded racist fucks."  Oh so Axl "learned" this really fast, what the fuck do you think David Geffen and the other bandmembers told him would happen?? Exactly that, but he did it anyway, and according to later interviews seemed to regret it.  Also, the "it's Axl" arguement has more ground to stand on then the argument that it's not his fault the album hasn't been released. It's pretty much common knowledge that he wanted to make Guns N Roses his own thing, which is why he acquired the rights under somewhat "shady" circumstances.  Anyways, this means that what happens is his decision, everyone else in the band is a hired gun.  He got what he wanted, and hasn't been able to deliver a new album of material since.  Who else is there to blame?? I'm not saying it wasn't admirable of him to try and make something great and release it to the public and once again reclaim the rock crown, i actually like Axl Rose a lot for the balls to try and do it.  But up until this point he hasn't been able to do it, and I don't agree with the way he's kept his loyal fans in the dark all of these years. That's all.,

[madagas]

One in a Million is one of the top five songs Axl ever wrote in my opinion. I'm glad he put it out. 

[jarmo]

"He learned pretty fast that people only saw One In A Million as a theme song for close minded racist fucks."  Oh so Axl "learned" this really fast, what the fuck do you think David Geffen and the other bandmembers told him would happen?? Exactly that, but he did it anyway, and according to later interviews seemed to regret it. 

I think he put too much faith in people.

But still, it's about integrity. He put out the song anyway.

Also, the "it's Axl" arguement has more ground to stand on then the argument that it's not his fault the album hasn't been released.

Yeah sure. If it wasn't Axl, he could've put out the Snakepit's first album under the GN'R name and you'd be all delighted with GN'R songs like "Be The Ball".

It's pretty much common knowledge that he wanted to make Guns N Roses his own thing, which is why he acquired the rights under somewhat "shady" circumstances.  Anyways, this means that what happens is his decision, everyone else in the band is a hired gun.  He got what he wanted, and hasn't been able to deliver a new album of material since.  Who else is there to blame?? I'm not saying it wasn't admirable of him to try and make something great and release it to the public and once again reclaim the rock crown, i actually like Axl Rose a lot for the balls to try and do it.  But up until this point he hasn't been able to do it, and I don't agree with the way he's kept his loyal fans in the dark all of these years. That's all.,

Some of us are more loyal than others it seems. 


No, not everything is his decision. If you are a realist you'd understand that. For example, he doesn't just sit and call up promoters to book gigs.




His loyal fans know what GN'R is about and don't try to change it just because it fits their needs.



Now you're trying to turn this into a Dead Horse topic, so I suggest you continue in the right section where people like you are free to whine. 




/jarmo

[ben9785]

It is really disheartening sometimes seeing all these arguments between fans. We're supposed to be supporting each other and supporting the band at this time.

As for Baz - We should be great-ful that there is someone out there who keeps us in the loop about CD. There's no reason for anybody to criticize him or  what he says for any reasons because he is not an official spokesperson of any sort - he's just sharing some details with us, because he's just as much a fan of Axl we are, and he's as eager as us for the album to come out.

[jarmo]

It is really disheartening sometimes seeing all these arguments between fans. We're supposed to be supporting each other and supporting the band at this time.

As for Baz - We should be great-ful that there is someone out there who keeps us in the loop about CD. There's no reason for anybody to criticize him or  what he says for any reasons because he is not an official spokesperson of any sort - he's just sharing some details with us, because he's just as much a fan of Axl we are, and he's as eager as us for the album to come out.

People don't often realize that Baz is a rock n' roll fan just like us.

He gets excited too.





/jarmo

[Skunk]

A lot of my friends would probably like it if i would talk about GNR a little less too...

So Baz, i totally understand.

Everytime he says something encouraging, i get excited, and i repeat it.

[burnz007]

One in a Million is one of the top five songs Axl ever wrote in my opinion. I'm glad he put it out. 

I agree and liking the song doesn't make one a radical or racist... rap artists release much more controversial material all the time but no one gives a shit. 

Songs like One in Million and Look At Game Girl are part of what makes them a legendary & "dangerous" band.

You can't expect Axl to censor his music so the dumbest of people won't have trouble understanding.   

[Ali]

Well Axl hasn't released a new original album for 17 years, that's very cool too!

Yeah, it's not up to you or me to decide when he has to release albums.

The sooner this idea makes it's way into your head and you start thinking about how ridiculous it is to whine about it, you'll feel a lot better.   

This interview was 3 years after that and with a guy who is considered by many to be the smartest man in hollywood.  Oh and I wouldn't bring up integrity with this argument. You want me to believe that Axl's integrity of doing what was "right" was to release a song that appeared to be bashing gays, black, and immigrants and another song thats royalites at first (later it was changed) went to Charles Manson who was responsable for numerous people's deaths?? 

Then you don't know what integrity is I'm afraid....

He learned pretty fast that people only saw One In A Million as a theme song for close minded racist fucks.

He doesn't owe me shit and I don't owe him shit, but that doesn't mean I can't have an honest opinion about what is going on with my favorite band.  Just cause Axl Rose or Guns N Roses has fucked up and I call them on it, doesn't mean I don't think the band's amazing, it just means you're honest enough to admit when something is fucked up.  Something that you apparently are uncapable of...pull th wool down and take a look bud!

Another one who has to try to insult me because he thinks he's such a realistic / objective fan.

 


You know what the REAL difference is?

I'm aware that things haven't gone as planned, just like you. But unlike you, I'm open minded and understand that everything has happened for a reason or reasons.

And no, it's not just "because it's Axl". That's your easy answers to everything. That and "put out the album!".


For a realist, you sure as hell live in a simple world where everything goes according to plan and your wishes seem to be granted......



By the way, the guy whose name is in this thread's subject actually told Axl something like "you should put it out".....  Your route of problem solving has been tried already.



/jarmo

"He learned pretty fast that people only saw One In A Million as a theme song for close minded racist fucks."  Oh so Axl "learned" this really fast, what the fuck do you think David Geffen and the other bandmembers told him would happen?? Exactly that, but he did it anyway, and according to later interviews seemed to regret it.  Also, the "it's Axl" arguement has more ground to stand on then the argument that it's not his fault the album hasn't been released. It's pretty much common knowledge that he wanted to make Guns N Roses his own thing, which is why he acquired the rights under somewhat "shady" circumstances.  Anyways, this means that what happens is his decision, everyone else in the band is a hired gun.  He got what he wanted, and hasn't been able to deliver a new album of material since.  Who else is there to blame?? I'm not saying it wasn't admirable of him to try and make something great and release it to the public and once again reclaim the rock crown, i actually like Axl Rose a lot for the balls to try and do it.  But up until this point he hasn't been able to do it, and I don't agree with the way he's kept his loyal fans in the dark all of these years. That's all.,

One thing I disagree with is the notion that Axl Rose acquired the rights to use the band's name under "shady" circumstances.  He came right out and asked for it and lawyers for him, Slash and Duff worked it out.  There was nothing shady about it.  Whether or not he should've felt it was appropriate to ask that question is another thing entirely.

Ali

[Verse Chorus Verse]

Every. Fucking. Thread. Every thread turns into a shitstorm.

Maybe closing the forum until the album comes out will save Jarmo a lot of cash and ulcers.

[mrbucketfoot]

Every. Fucking. Thread. Every thread turns into a shitstorm.

Maybe closing the forum until the album comes out will save Jarmo a lot of cash and ulcers.

Why let one bad apple spoil the whole damn bunch?

Some of us love talking about the band, tour experiences, the new songs, and looking forward to the albums, some don't. And it's pretty clear they can go elsewhere and that's why I'm here. I choose not to hang around negative people. I'd rather talk about, promote, and discuss what I'm about and what I believe in as a person rather than what I don't.

[Voodoochild]

Very well said, Ali. This is just a rumor that people keep stating as fact, but nobody ever had any proof on this. Im always asking how could it be possible to blackmail someone about this and still has any validation after all those years.

From what I read on that Geffen lawsuit about the GH album, the other members had a partnership with Axl but declined to continue, leaving all the rights and costs of the next album (rehearsals, gear rent and studios) to Axl.

[ben9785]

I really hope things change around here for the best once things get rolling and the album eventually surfaces.

Sure it's just a forum, but all the negativity around here sucks. Personally I come here to take a break from work and whatever else and think and talk about something I like and that interests me.  I don't like coming here and finding myself getting worked up about more arguments and frustration.

People can certainly discuss reasons as to whats holding up the album or what the situation is or whatever, but remember that we don't really know anything, even if we've heard it from a close source like Baz, hence people shouldn't get too defensive or critical because we don't know the true story.

[jarmo]

It was pretty much two people whining. One of which confessed that he hates Baz....

That kind of people will always feel unwelcome here because this place isn't meant to be for them. 





/jarmo