Baz "axl is getting ready to put out chinese democracy"

[gnrjanus]

but back to topic I guess.

If he's ready to put it out, well Say it...
Axl's been ready to put it out several times over the years.
I do think it's finished and everything about it has been finished but some small stuff not relating to the album are putting things on hold.

[WARose]

4 years can do a lot to a person.    stating the obvious, I know.. but when you wear the slash blinders and ask stupid questions, expect a stupid answer.

It has nothing to do with Slash blinders. I am just pointing out that Slash being lazy probably was about the best talking point Axl could come up with at the time to explain his departure. There were much bigger issues between the 2 than that, but at least it was a plausible scenario to run with given the hoard of media coverage it was getting at the time.

Look at what Axl said about Robin after he left the first time in the Loder interview, "Rose: [continuing] ... but at the same time, it's turned out to be a good thing. We've been able to push some of the guitar parts a step farther, that had he been here, it's not something that would have been considered, and I wouldn't have been rude enough to attempt to do that. Robin did a great job, but we've been able to up the ante a little bit."

Now much like the Slash situation when he left, Axl has to keep the public face that it isn't really a big deal. He in no uncertain terms labeled Finck a mediocre guitarist who couldn't get to that higher level. Just like Slash wasn't working to get to that next level. The "taking the recording to the next level" argument was levied against Bucket when he left to.

The premise of my point has zero to do with Slash. It has to do with the "if Axl said it, it is 100% true to the letter." Sometimes a little reading through the lines is required, even though that is frowned upon in some circles.

Axl and Slash split up because they were no longer compatible for whatever reason, not over his refusal to work on an album. That may have been the story the PR guys decided to go with to explain it, but I have a bridge to sell anyone who believes that was really the cause of the great schism.

I would hope that for the sake of consistensy at least the same group that use the "lazyness" credo in regard to Slash because Axl said so are as steadfast to remind others that Robin is a mediocre and limited player that was holding the guitars back according to Axl. He made that comment to.

The important thing to take away from these examples is that Axl is worried about making numero uno look good, which is what all people do. That also means he is not above exaggerating or embellishing if it acheives whatever the goal is the way he did in diminshing the effect losing Slash,Robin, Bucket would have on GNR when it came time to talk about them in the press.

See Jim Bob, questioning Axl's version of events does not automatically constitute "Slash blinders". He did the same thing to Robin as I layed out, so I guess I have Finck blinders to. I guess that also means I am wearing a KFC bucket now because Bucket was given the same sermon as those 2 in terms of how they were holding Axl back from the next level.

What I established is not Slash blinders but a familiar pattern of events upon the departure of GNR lead guitarists, and that to project Axl's rational on to Slash as though it were fact would require doing the same to Robin; yet somehow I don't think we will be seeing posts every other day talking about how his playing has really held back the band as Axl claimed.

your arguments aren`t really convincing to me. axl never implied, that robin was a mediocre guitar player. it`s just, when he left they were able to try something different and replace some of his work, that axl didn`t think was right for certain songs. as the case may be, they pushed some of the material to another level. as jarmo mentioned: without disrespecting robin.

however, he did not just claim, that robin`s departure was a good thing "to keep the public face that it isn't really a big deal". there is a lot of truth to that. compare the solos in IRS and twat from `99 to the leaks featuring buckethead. they really are on another level if you ask me.

bucketheads departure in 2004 is a different matter. on the one hand, they were probably really able to push the recording process a step further (buckethead`s tics....), but on the other hand it`s always been quite obvious, that axl wants him back. axl mentioned in his statement, that gnr "remains open for discussions", something he wouldn`t have done to many people, after they let him down. in addition to that, del james wrote in his column in 2006, that they tried everything to get buckethead back prior to the hammerstein shows.

[jarmo]

but back to topic I guess.

If he's ready to put it out, well Say it...
Axl's been ready to put it out several times over the years.
I do think it's finished and everything about it has been finished but some small stuff not relating to the album are putting things on hold.

The truth is, it was almost done in 2006, but then it was actually finished in early 2007.

As evident by the interviews Axl gave in 2006, he wanted to put it out before that year ended. Then the next goal was to put it out in March 2007, but due to delays and scheduling conflicts, the album couldn't be finished in time.


I personally feel that putting out some kind of update "just" saying the album is done, would make a lot of people happy but you have to remember that a lot of people are not waiting for that update, they want the release date. It's basically a no win situation until there's a new release date to announce.


Besides, most fans here know that the album is done.




/jarmo

[gunns1]

but back to topic I guess.

If he's ready to put it out, well Say it...
Axl's been ready to put it out several times over the years.
I do think it's finished and everything about it has been finished but some small stuff not relating to the album are putting things on hold.

The truth is, it was almost done in 2006, but then it was actually finished in early 2007.

As evident by the interviews Axl gave in 2006, he wanted to put it out before that year ended. Then the next goal was to put it out in March 2007, but due to delays and scheduling conflicts, the album couldn't be finished in time.


I personally feel that putting out some kind of update "just" saying the album is done, would make a lot of people happy but you have to remember that a lot of people are not waiting for that update, they want the release date. It's basically a no win situation until there's a new release date to announce.


Besides, most fans here know that the album is done.




/jarmo

I agree with the whole update theory that you said,
but at the same time, I think Axl should officially say something to communicate with fans,
where
A. He wont piss any of them off if it turns out not be true.
B. If he doesnt say anything, then People start to question whether or not he is still focused/intent on putting out the album this year

I mean, he doesnt have to give us another "tentative' release date,
but just a simple letter briefly outlining the current position of where he is at, and a thankyou to the fans , and mabye a hint or something,
Some false hope is better then no hope :0

[mrbucketfoot]

I don't think the whiny whiners will be happy until the album is in their hands.

If they band releases a release date, they'll say "oh, those have been broken before", forgetting that the last one was tenative and before that it was nothing but rumor.
And then if then do announce a date and people do believe it they'll say "where's the setlist...." or "where's the album cover...." I want those now. And if they announce those,
"I want a single...I want it for free".

It seems like people would rather be angry then get resolved (which sounds silly considering no one here knows the band personally).

But alas, I'd love to hear something from the band. I really enjoyed seeing Axl in that picture in the liner notes from 'Angel Down'. I mean people practically flipped their lids when they saw Frank in that GNR Jacket from the band's MySpace.

[madagas]

I'm firmly convinced the majority of Gnr fans are idiots.  I hope Axl runs off 3/4ths of the fanbase. Just start the fuck over. 

[Atillla]

I'm firmly convinced the majority of Gnr fans are idiots.  I hope Axl runs off 3/4ths of the fanbase. Just start the fuck over. 

Well, it's mainly the GnR fans who are too much on teh internetz who overreact to everything and overanalyze like they are Freud to every fart of the band. But that doesn't only go for the fans of the "old GnR" btw, the fans of the "new GnR" do the same thing.

I personally don't care who is in the band, as long as Axl is singing so I don't have that problem 

[madagas]

I am not discriminating between old and new fans....just sayin. Every band has knucklehead fans. But, the lot that frequents Gnrland seem fairly out of touch with reality.

[Atillla]

I am not discriminating between old and new fans....just sayin. Every band has knucklehead fans. But, the lot that frequents Gnrland seem fairly out of touch with reality.

I agree 

But you should check out the fans of Deep Purple for instance (on forums).. they take the crown when it comes to that,  with the 6-7 formations (Marks they call them) it had. GnR fans look sane and rational compared to them, lol!

[cyllan]

You raise some interesting discussion points, Naupis.  However, after going back and re-reading the Kurt Loder interview to which you refer, I strongly disagree with your interpretation that Axl regarded Robin as a ?mediocre guitarist?.  My understanding is that Axl was referring to Robin?s fondness for playing in a particular style rather than his technical prowess.  Axl has said that he wants GNR?s music to draw on elements from a wide sphere of musical styles and I think that he was reflecting this when he mentioned his wish to push the guitar parts ? not doubting Robin?s ability.  I believe that is why he has the three guitarists he now has in GNR, precisely because it allows each to bring their particular talent and speciality to the mix, in order that together they create the kind of distinctive sound that Axl envisaged for the evolution of GNR.

If I were to use an analogy it would be to compare musicians with tattooists.  I?m getting some more ink done and have a particular style in mind, so I?m going to an artist that specialises in the type of work I want.  I know that he?s a fantastic artist and in all likelihood could produce excellent work in other styles but I also appreciate that he prefers to work a certain way and, out of respect for his artistry and as a fellow human being, I wouldn?t dream of asking him to work in a way that he wasn?t comfortable with.

The situation with Slash I believe to be different.  It?s my opinion that the frustration Axl felt regarding Slash in those post-Illusion days largely came down to attitude, outlook and the future development of GNR.  I don?t believe that Slash is ?lazy? in the wider sense of the word because he seems to be pretty busy most of the time, but I do think that he obtains his motivation from very different sources than Axl and that this manifested itself in his approach to the recording of the next GNR album.

[ppbebe]

madagas, it's far from the majority of fans. if you think the millions that saw gnr in 06 and 07 are in the fan forums, you're out of touch with reality.

Funny how you decide to leave out the mention where Axl said Slash didn't wanna work harder... So, it's not really possible to change the songs too much if the other person isn't into changing them. 


But CD has nothing to do with Slash. 


There are people in the band who aren't afraid to work hard and experiment.






/jarmo

In the interests of full disclosure I present the following:

According to Axl (in a direct reference to Slash's work habits), and I quote verbatim, "I think it is time for the resident workaholic to strut his Les Paul. Caught off guard but always ready, ladies and gentlemen Mr. Slash" as he introduced him at Rock in Rio 1. Coming directly from Axl's lips in an unsolicited manner like that would seem to indicate lack of drive and work ethic are not a problem he experienced with Slash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpeWI8pyuKc


How can someone be both the band's "resident workaholic" and the "band member who didn't want to work hard" in the eyes of the very same person who is responsible for both comments?

you can be a workaholic and yet lazy in learning new things.

my mum said I was an excellent cook when I made dinner.
In fact it was horrid according to my brother. I'd say at least it was experimental.

[ppbebe]

interview to which you refer, I strongly disagree with your interpretation that Axl regarded Robin as a ?mediocre guitarist?. 

if robin was mediocre he wouldn't be in the band now, would he?

I don't think the whiny whiners will be happy until the album is in their hands.

I don't think half of them will be happy then as they are ovbiously whining happy.

considering no one here knows the band personally.

no one? I wouldn't be so sure.  not that to know someone personally is to understand them.

[ppbebe]

I wonder what the real fans would say about, if any, non vocal version of rocket queen or WTTJ.

Considering part of the main pull for those tunes is the incredible riffs etc ... I'd say they'd like them.  I love the new GnR songs but none of them have memorable riffs comparable to Jungle or Rocket Queen ...

you might have sai otherwise if you had ever listened to karaoke versions. most pop/rock songs don't sound too good without vocals.
the instrumental versions tell me that the new gnr songs are on another level.

[madagas]

Tank.....you're right. It is mainly these forums where the knuckleheads come to sound off. Good point.

[Saul]

I don't think the whiny whiners will be happy until the album is in their hands.

I predict twice as much complaining once the album is released.

[Ali]

4 years can do a lot to a person.    stating the obvious, I know.. but when you wear the slash blinders and ask stupid questions, expect a stupid answer.

It has nothing to do with Slash blinders. I am just pointing out that Slash being lazy probably was about the best talking point Axl could come up with at the time to explain his departure. There were much bigger issues between the 2 than that, but at least it was a plausible scenario to run with given the hoard of media coverage it was getting at the time.

Look at what Axl said about Robin after he left the first time in the Loder interview, "Rose: [continuing] ... but at the same time, it's turned out to be a good thing. We've been able to push some of the guitar parts a step farther, that had he been here, it's not something that would have been considered, and I wouldn't have been rude enough to attempt to do that. Robin did a great job, but we've been able to up the ante a little bit."

Now much like the Slash situation when he left, Axl has to keep the public face that it isn't really a big deal. He in no uncertain terms labeled Finck a mediocre guitarist who couldn't get to that higher level. Just like Slash wasn't working to get to that next level. The "taking the recording to the next level" argument was levied against Bucket when he left to.

The premise of my point has zero to do with Slash. It has to do with the "if Axl said it, it is 100% true to the letter." Sometimes a little reading through the lines is required, even though that is frowned upon in some circles.

Axl and Slash split up because they were no longer compatible for whatever reason, not over his refusal to work on an album. That may have been the story the PR guys decided to go with to explain it, but I have a bridge to sell anyone who believes that was really the cause of the great schism.

I would hope that for the sake of consistensy at least the same group that use the "lazyness" credo in regard to Slash because Axl said so are as steadfast to remind others that Robin is a mediocre and limited player that was holding the guitars back according to Axl. He made that comment to.

The important thing to take away from these examples is that Axl is worried about making numero uno look good, which is what all people do. That also means he is not above exaggerating or embellishing if it acheives whatever the goal is the way he did in diminshing the effect losing Slash,Robin, Bucket would have on GNR when it came time to talk about them in the press.

See Jim Bob, questioning Axl's version of events does not automatically constitute "Slash blinders". He did the same thing to Robin as I layed out, so I guess I have Finck blinders to. I guess that also means I am wearing a KFC bucket now because Bucket was given the same sermon as those 2 in terms of how they were holding Axl back from the next level.

What I established is not Slash blinders but a familiar pattern of events upon the departure of GNR lead guitarists, and that to project Axl's rational on to Slash as though it were fact would require doing the same to Robin; yet somehow I don't think we will be seeing posts every other day talking about how his playing has really held back the band as Axl claimed.

I think the issue is not whether or not Slash is lazy in the absolute sense, but lazy or indifferent when it comes to working on certain material, i.e. ballads, and in making an effort to grow and evolve musically.

As far as taking recordings to the next level, I always thought that was more about someone's style being the best fit for a particular song or not.

Ali

[Voodoochild]

IMO, it is lazy. He develop one idea of solo or riff but rather move to the next one than rework on it.

Its more like not wanting to reach the edge. 

And about Robin's departure in '99, Axl not only felt lost without him but also had to call one of his favorite guitar players of all time, Brian May, to record a couple of solos so he wouldn't feel bad to erase Robin's awesome work (wasn't exactly his quote, but it was pretty much what he said).

[madagas]

Axl wouldn't have taken Robin back if he didn't like him as a person and guitar player.

[Limulus]

still Axl decided to officially comment on his departed lead guitarists in a way where you can read bad things in it....he often has shown this "revenge"-attitude.

and the Slash "lazy" argument"....come on, Axl didnt sung with the band only once after the 7/17/93 show at rehearsals and rarely showed up anyway when the band had practised hours a day. it surely would piss about every band members in any band if your singer isnt doing his job - which in the first place always would be singing.

[Ali]

still Axl decided to officially comment on his departed lead guitarists in a way where you can read bad things in it....he often has shown this "revenge"-attitude.

and the Slash "lazy" argument"....come on, Axl didnt sung with the band only once after the 7/17/93 show at rehearsals and rarely showed up anyway when the band had practised hours a day. it surely would piss about every band members in any band if your singer isnt doing his job - which in the first place always would be singing.

I don't know if I would call it revenge.  I would call it anger, hurt, disappointment and lashing out publicly in a way to vent those emotions.  Tom Zutuat said that Axl feels the record should represent the energy of the people creating it, hence the desire to re-record parts, guitar or drum or otherwise.  And if Axl's feelings toward Robin were so negative for touring with NIN, then Robin wouldn't be around today.

Ali