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Author Topic: Donald Trump & 2016 Election  (Read 321349 times)
tim_m
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« Reply #3360 on: September 26, 2019, 07:27:20 AM »

https://www.foxnews.com/media/ex-mccain-romney-adviser-tells-msnbc-30-gop-senators-would-impeach-trump-in-secret-ballot

Sad but not shocking. They couldn't find their balls with a flashlight.
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« Reply #3361 on: September 26, 2019, 07:33:07 AM »

There was an investigation and no wrongdoing was found.

So how is what Trump allegedly did much different?

 Id like to see all the facts come out before I pass judgement on Trump. As you know, I'm not one to salivate over the mention of his possible demise.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 07:34:44 AM by Senator Blutarsky » Logged

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« Reply #3362 on: September 26, 2019, 09:01:29 AM »

So how is what Trump allegedly did much different?

Ignoring the fact this is a case of "whataboutism".....

Biden apparently didn't actually interfere to help his son.  The firing of the prosecuter in question was made because of MULTIPLE international agencies recommending he be fired.  And the Ukraine had already agreed to do it.

Biden was acting as an agent of the government, with the full knowledge and support of the sitting president, who had received assurances that, based on those recommendations from the international community, the prosecutor would be fired.  He hadn't been.  They were tying aid to a promise Ukraine had made to the international community.  That's called foreign policy.

Biden made the request, but it wasn't in order to get dirt on a political opponent and influence an election or help his son. It wasn't to benefit him, personally, at all.  It was to further a foreign policy tenet....not just of the US, but of much of the global community.

Trump made a request of the Ukraine to do something NOT to benefit the United States.  NOT to encourage a country to follow through on a stated/promised action.  BUT TO GET SOMETHING OF PERSONAL BENEFIT AND TO TRY TO INFLUENCE AN ELECTION.

Surely you can apply some objectivity here and see there is a WORLD of difference?

It would have been wrong (even though it didn't actually happen) if Biden did so to help his son, but Trumps is "more wrong" and "more illegal".

If you'd like to try to impeach Biden, now...go for it.  Right after you agree that Trump should be impeached and removed from office.

Wink

Quote
Id like to see all the facts come out before I pass judgement on Trump. As you know, I'm not one to salivate over the mention of his possible demise.

Which is what they're doing, no?  An impeachment inquiry is the investigation.  They haven't drawn up articles and voted yet.

« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 09:17:11 AM by pilferk » Logged

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« Reply #3363 on: September 26, 2019, 09:01:36 AM »

Now the whilstleblower complaint is out and it appears the whitehouse tried to cover it up by moving it to a computer for classified info and that Giuliani his personal attorney was trying to negotiate on behalf of the administration when he is not part of the administration. The fuck? This is spiraling downward very quickly.
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pilferk
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« Reply #3364 on: September 26, 2019, 09:03:34 AM »

The whistleblower account DOES seem to be 2nd hand (with information coming directly from those who heard the call to the whistleblower...and more than one of those who heard the call, too).

Dozens of people were listening in to the call, apparently, because it was supposed to be routine.....

And the complaint is NOT good for Trump.

It also details the basis for a cover up, and accusations that this is not the only call treated this way.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 09:05:08 AM by pilferk » Logged

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« Reply #3365 on: September 26, 2019, 09:28:12 AM »

The whistleblower account DOES seem to be 2nd hand (with information coming directly from those who heard the call to the whistleblower...and more than one of those who heard the call, too).

Dozens of people were listening in to the call, apparently, because it was supposed to be routine.....

And the complaint is NOT good for Trump.

It also details the basis for a cover up, and accusations that this is not the only call treated this way.
Yep this is bad very very bad. I don't know if it is Nixon level bad. I was not born yet but wow. Side note, Nunes really has a punchable face.
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tim_m
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« Reply #3366 on: September 26, 2019, 10:07:52 AM »

 rofl Nunes just totally face planted with his questions.
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pilferk
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« Reply #3367 on: September 27, 2019, 06:52:13 AM »

Before someone brings up Trumps talking point:

The Dem controlled House has passed 172 pieces of legislation since January (9 months).  This legislation addresses issues like healthcare (protecting those with preconditions), immigration (DACA status) and gun control.

That is more legislation than most House Sessions pass in their first year.

The Dem controlled House ARE focused on governing.  Mitch just won't vote on any of it in the Senate.

The Senate, on the other hand?  A record LOW number of bills passed since Janaury.  A record LOW number of votes held on the Senate floor since January.

It seems like it might be the REPUBLICANS...and specifically SENATE REPUBLICANS....who can't figure out how to operate and govern. Wink

Maybe they should spend less time defending a corrupt administration and more time working on kitchen table issues that people care about?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 06:55:27 AM by pilferk » Logged

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« Reply #3368 on: September 27, 2019, 09:25:11 AM »

You forgot election security they've also passed. All while doing this checks and balances thing they're supposed to do, you know defending the Constitution.
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« Reply #3369 on: September 27, 2019, 03:13:05 PM »

Trump is so dangerous and such a threat to democracy that he must be impeached immediately. But not before our 2 week vacation.

Do we still have a war on whistleblowers? Should trump prosecute under the espionage act? What would Obama do?
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« Reply #3370 on: September 27, 2019, 11:21:04 PM »

I come back after months and still hear the same garbage. 

Let me repost this. 

Let’s talk about that economy, since the economy is another area where I continue to hear people (who hate Trump) say “well it started with Obama”...😒

Since some of you are quick to stick up for the previous president (someone I voted for)... Can anyone share anything that Obama may have done that helped the economy?   Under Obama, the GDP was one of, if not the worst under any president since they’ve been calculating the number since I believe the 1940’s.  You could come back and say “but he followed a recession under Bush”. Yeah, and so have other presidents.  The first quarters GDP under any president can be attributed to the previous president.  This isn’t just me saying this.  This is well known, because the new president hasn’t had time for any of his policies to factor in..  So Trumps first quarter GDP is really Obama’s.  That number was slightly over 1% if you wanna know.  So with that said, Obama’s first quarter GDP was 5.4%....really Bush’s.  Then after that quarter, the GDP under Obama averaged between 1.5 and 2% quarterly.  So if Obama was doing anything good on the economy front, why weren’t those numbers higher?  They had already started to rise by the end of Bush’s time? 

From 2013-2015, the GDP started to rise under Obama, and it went from around 2.0% to almost 3% annually.  This was his best time. However, then from 2015-2016, it took a dive again and went to 1.6% over Obama’s last 2 quarters.  So I’ll ask you, how?  How did this happen if Obama was doing good things for our economy?  Why was it so low over the course of his presidency, and why did it then start to dive at the end of his term? 

And let’s go back to when Trump first took office.  Slightly over 1% (attributed to Obama) in his first quarter.  Then the next two quarters over 3%! 

Sorry guys, when it comes to the economy, it’s just not a winning battle to sit here and say things like Obama did great with the economy.

 
Stubbornness!
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 12:16:54 AM by damnthehaters » Logged

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« Reply #3371 on: September 28, 2019, 12:23:37 AM »

Difference is Obama inherited a recession, Trump was handed a good economy. This isn't rocket science.
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tim_m
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« Reply #3372 on: September 28, 2019, 12:27:47 AM »

Trump is so dangerous and such a threat to democracy that he must be impeached immediately. But not before our 2 week vacation.

Do we still have a war on whistleblowers? Should trump prosecute under the espionage act? What would Obama do?

Guess you missed the presser Schiff had after the testimony they would be working through the recess.  Roll Eyes

Those two are completely different. If Obama had been caught doing this Republicans would be breathing fire.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 03:35:38 AM by tim_m » Logged
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« Reply #3373 on: September 28, 2019, 03:01:27 AM »

Before someone brings up Trumps talking point:

The Dem controlled House has passed 172 pieces of legislation since January (9 months).  This legislation addresses issues like healthcare (protecting those with preconditions), immigration (DACA status) and gun control.

That is more legislation than most House Sessions pass in their first year.

The Dem controlled House ARE focused on governing.  Mitch just won't vote on any of it in the Senate.

The Senate, on the other hand?  A record LOW number of bills passed since Janaury.  A record LOW number of votes held on the Senate floor since January.

It seems like it might be the REPUBLICANS...and specifically SENATE REPUBLICANS....who can't figure out how to operate and govern. Wink

Maybe they should spend less time defending a corrupt administration and more time working on kitchen table issues that people care about?


Well now that's an easy one; Republicans refuse to govern simply because they hate America.
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« Reply #3374 on: September 28, 2019, 04:11:18 AM »

I come back after months and still hear the same garbage. 

Let me repost this. 

Let’s talk about that economy, since the economy is another area where I continue to hear people (who hate Trump) say “well it started with Obama”...😒

Oh, it seems you missed my previous comments that sandman ran away from with his tail between his legs.

The rate of decrease in unemployment has not changed since Obama:



Black Homeownership Drops to All-Time Low

https://www.wsj.com/articles/black-homeownership-drops-to-all-time-low-11563183015

- The probabality of a loan denial is 36.9% higher for back-owned firm in comparison to their white, male owned business counterparts.
- While white families have a median wealth of $171,000, black families have a median wealth of just $17,600.
- When researchers from the institute looked at median wealth from 1983 to 2016 (adjusting for inflation), black families saw their wealth decrease by more than half, while white families saw theirs rise by 33 percent.
- Black families in America earn just $57.30 for every $100 in income earned by white families
- Nearly one in five black households has zero or negative net worth. The share of white households without any wealth is considerably smaller, at 9 percent
- If current trends continue, it will take 228 years for the average black family to reach the level of wealth white families own today.

Quote
Can anyone share anything that Obama may have done that helped the economy?

Saving us from a disaster with the failing banks and automakers? Radically increasing healthcare coverage?

Obama tackled income inequality by increasing taxes on high-income taxpayers via: a) expiration of the Bush income tax cuts for the top 1–2% of income earners starting with 2013; and b) payroll tax increases on roughly the top 5% of earners as part of the ACA. He also lowered taxes on small businesses.

According to the CBO, the top 1% received 18.7% of the pre-tax income in 2007, but 15.0% in 2013. This indicated some progress on pre-tax inequality as well.

During late 2015, the House and Senate, in rare bipartisan form, passed the largest infrastructure package in a decade, costing $305 billion over five years, less than the $478 billion in Obama's initial request.

Inflation (measured by CPI-All Urban Consumers, All Items) fell to a historically low level during his administration, averaging 1.4% from Q2 2009 to Q4 2016, well below the 3.0% average from Q1 1989 to Q4 2008.

Obama presided over the third longest economic expansion among the 33 expansions tracked since records began in 1857, and the longest continuous stretch of private sector job creation since records began in 1939.

Between 2014 and 2015, real median household income grew 5.2%, or $2,800, the fastest growth on record. Contrary to prior trends, these gains were widely shared across the income distribution.

The S&P500 reached record highs 118 times during the Obama presidency.

Imports of petroleum products fell from 1.85% GDP in 2009 to 0.86% GDP in 2016.[142] The U.S. was less reliant on foreign oil than it has been in nearly 30 years.

From 2008 to 2016, the U.S. tripled the amount of energy harnessed from wind and increased solar power generation by a factor of 30.

Quote
 Under Obama, the GDP was one of, if not the worst under any president since they’ve been calculating the number since I believe the 1940’s.  You could come back and say “but he followed a recession under Bush”. Yeah, and so have other presidents.

Gee, it's the slowest recovery since the last economic crash as severe as the one in 2008? You don't say...  drool

Quote
So with that said, Obama’s first quarter GDP was 5.4%....really Bush’s.  Then after that quarter, the GDP under Obama averaged between 1.5 and 2% quarterly.  So if Obama was doing anything good on the economy front, why weren’t those numbers higher?  They had already started to rise by the end of Bush’s time?

LOL, you think a single quarter means anything in isolation? You have no clue what you're talking about.

Q2 2014, Obama had 5.5% growth. That blows the shit out of every quarter Trump has ever had. It's nearly DOUBLE Trump's best quarter.

Quote
From 2013-2015, the GDP started to rise under Obama, and it went from around 2.0% to almost 3% annually.  This was his best time. However, then from 2015-2016, it took a dive again and went to 1.6% over Obama’s last 2 quarters.  So I’ll ask you, how?  How did this happen if Obama was doing good things for our economy?  Why was it so low over the course of his presidency, and why did it then start to dive at the end of his term? 

And let’s go back to when Trump first took office.  Slightly over 1% (attributed to Obama) in his first quarter.  Then the next two quarters over 3%!

You're cherry picking quarters to build a narrative. Yearly GDP growth has been effectively identical:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/188165/annual-gdp-growth-of-the-united-states-since-1990/

Also, GDP is not the be-all-end-all of the economy. There are lots of other indicators which are horrible.

America's Wealth Inequality Is At Roaring Twenties Levels

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jessecolombo/2019/02/28/americas-wealth-inequality-is-at-roaring-twenties-levels/#1ee2fd4b2a9c



« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 04:18:01 AM by PermissionToLand » Logged
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« Reply #3375 on: September 28, 2019, 04:19:49 AM »

Let's watch the Trumpists run away from incontrovertible facts and statistics yet again!  rofl
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tim_m
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« Reply #3376 on: September 28, 2019, 05:26:57 AM »

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/27/765026582/meet-the-businessman-helping-giuliani-find-dirt-on-democrats-in-ukraine?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr
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sandman
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« Reply #3377 on: September 28, 2019, 07:33:03 AM »

I come back after months and still hear the same garbage. 

Let me repost this. 

Let’s talk about that economy, since the economy is another area where I continue to hear people (who hate Trump) say “well it started with Obama”...😒

Oh, it seems you missed my previous comments that sandman ran away from with his tail between his legs.

The rate of decrease in unemployment has not changed since Obama:



Black Homeownership Drops to All-Time Low

https://www.wsj.com/articles/black-homeownership-drops-to-all-time-low-11563183015

- The probabality of a loan denial is 36.9% higher for back-owned firm in comparison to their white, male owned business counterparts.
- While white families have a median wealth of $171,000, black families have a median wealth of just $17,600.
- When researchers from the institute looked at median wealth from 1983 to 2016 (adjusting for inflation), black families saw their wealth decrease by more than half, while white families saw theirs rise by 33 percent.
- Black families in America earn just $57.30 for every $100 in income earned by white families
- Nearly one in five black households has zero or negative net worth. The share of white households without any wealth is considerably smaller, at 9 percent
- If current trends continue, it will take 228 years for the average black family to reach the level of wealth white families own today.

Quote
Can anyone share anything that Obama may have done that helped the economy?

Saving us from a disaster with the failing banks and automakers? Radically increasing healthcare coverage?

Obama tackled income inequality by increasing taxes on high-income taxpayers via: a) expiration of the Bush income tax cuts for the top 1–2% of income earners starting with 2013; and b) payroll tax increases on roughly the top 5% of earners as part of the ACA. He also lowered taxes on small businesses.

According to the CBO, the top 1% received 18.7% of the pre-tax income in 2007, but 15.0% in 2013. This indicated some progress on pre-tax inequality as well.

During late 2015, the House and Senate, in rare bipartisan form, passed the largest infrastructure package in a decade, costing $305 billion over five years, less than the $478 billion in Obama's initial request.

Inflation (measured by CPI-All Urban Consumers, All Items) fell to a historically low level during his administration, averaging 1.4% from Q2 2009 to Q4 2016, well below the 3.0% average from Q1 1989 to Q4 2008.

Obama presided over the third longest economic expansion among the 33 expansions tracked since records began in 1857, and the longest continuous stretch of private sector job creation since records began in 1939.

Between 2014 and 2015, real median household income grew 5.2%, or $2,800, the fastest growth on record. Contrary to prior trends, these gains were widely shared across the income distribution.

The S&P500 reached record highs 118 times during the Obama presidency.

Imports of petroleum products fell from 1.85% GDP in 2009 to 0.86% GDP in 2016.[142] The U.S. was less reliant on foreign oil than it has been in nearly 30 years.

From 2008 to 2016, the U.S. tripled the amount of energy harnessed from wind and increased solar power generation by a factor of 30.

Quote
 Under Obama, the GDP was one of, if not the worst under any president since they’ve been calculating the number since I believe the 1940’s.  You could come back and say “but he followed a recession under Bush”. Yeah, and so have other presidents.

Gee, it's the slowest recovery since the last economic crash as severe as the one in 2008? You don't say...  drool

Quote
So with that said, Obama’s first quarter GDP was 5.4%....really Bush’s.  Then after that quarter, the GDP under Obama averaged between 1.5 and 2% quarterly.  So if Obama was doing anything good on the economy front, why weren’t those numbers higher?  They had already started to rise by the end of Bush’s time?

LOL, you think a single quarter means anything in isolation? You have no clue what you're talking about.

Q2 2014, Obama had 5.5% growth. That blows the shit out of every quarter Trump has ever had. It's nearly DOUBLE Trump's best quarter.

Quote
From 2013-2015, the GDP started to rise under Obama, and it went from around 2.0% to almost 3% annually.  This was his best time. However, then from 2015-2016, it took a dive again and went to 1.6% over Obama’s last 2 quarters.  So I’ll ask you, how?  How did this happen if Obama was doing good things for our economy?  Why was it so low over the course of his presidency, and why did it then start to dive at the end of his term? 

And let’s go back to when Trump first took office.  Slightly over 1% (attributed to Obama) in his first quarter.  Then the next two quarters over 3%!

You're cherry picking quarters to build a narrative. Yearly GDP growth has been effectively identical:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/188165/annual-gdp-growth-of-the-united-states-since-1990/

Also, GDP is not the be-all-end-all of the economy. There are lots of other indicators which are horrible.

America's Wealth Inequality Is At Roaring Twenties Levels

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jessecolombo/2019/02/28/americas-wealth-inequality-is-at-roaring-twenties-levels/#1ee2fd4b2a9c





Obsessed with me much?

Your lack of understanding of economics is sad. But economics are complicated. Most people never truly understand. But viewing everything through your bias makes you feel good, so i guess just go with that. It clearly makes you feel good and between Trump being your president and the fact that climate change is gonna kill us in 10 years, you clearly can’t handle any more stress. So keep your head up your ass and go with what makes you feel good. The rest of us will accept reality.
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« Reply #3378 on: September 28, 2019, 07:39:09 AM »

Trump is so dangerous and such a threat to democracy that he must be impeached immediately. But not before our 2 week vacation.

Do we still have a war on whistleblowers? Should trump prosecute under the espionage act? What would Obama do?

Guess you missed the presser Schiff had after the testimony they would be working through the recess.  Roll Eyes

Those two are completely different. If Obama had been caught doing this Republicans would be breathing fire.

Glad you are happy that you and your party are just like republicans. Although i don’t think republicans would be stupid enough to impeach a prez during their first term, but who knows.

Sire, fire up Trump’s base. Give him a shot next year. Further divide the sheep. Make ratings great again.
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« Reply #3379 on: September 28, 2019, 08:03:08 AM »

It's called doing what's right, putting country above party. The Republicans might want to consider doing the same.
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