"Next Album" rumor / speculation thread *UPDATE AUG 22/2023*

[babydolls]

The question is, how do you prefer to hear something new? In concert you're attending, a Youtube clip of a live performance or a studio version on the radio/online stream?



/jarmo

I think I'd go for studio version on radio or online stream.  I'm able to concentrate more on the whole song and take it in properly for first few listens, rather than at a concert.  From past experience, in a gig, IMO there's always too much else going on, and a lot is dependant on where you are in the venue and the state you're in - a lot of : ooh whats this, is this new, I cant see, dickhead behind me wont stop shoving, me working my way to a good vantage point in the crowd to see and hear as well as possible, someone waving a phone in my face, my feet hurt, ok now I'm being groped, someone is yelling AXL AXL AXL constantly in my ear, another pint of beer spilt on my boots, damn I want another beer,  , (fkn love it though - apart from the groping  )- when you're more familiar with a song these things pale during a gig somewhat as you look forward to sections you know and want to see translate to live performance.  When I saw GnR at Docklands, London 2002, there were a bunch of CD songs I'd never heard before at all - that was very exciting - I wanted to give my full attention, but its pretty hard in a crazy live setting and I was trashed that night.  The Blues though stuck out the most for me that night out of the CD songs    Axl's voice was really clear and soaring in the live mix (or where I was standing), I dont remember hearing him as clearly on Rhiad, so didnt have as much of an impact of the song until I heard the studio version.
 You tube clip is interesting to check out, but you're thwarted by quality of the recording and sound etc.  yep - so personally I enjoy songs more having heard them before I see them live. 
Covers are a bit different though - when seeing Guns do The Seeker in Vegas, I knew the song, but not their version, so that was pretty damn cool seeing that played. Likewise when they jam bits of covers, like Dizzy with Led Zep for example.

[sky dog]

For the next album, I would prefer to hear the studio versions first.

[D-GenerationX]

For the next album, I would prefer to hear the studio versions first.

How committed to that are you though?

Meaning, suppose they take to the road yet again with no new album.  That puts you at least a year away from an album.

Would you be opposed to hearing a new song on that tour, much as we did on the 2001/02 and 2006/07 tours?

[sky dog]

Oh no, I will take what I can get.  However, in an ideal world, I would prefer to get the studio versions first. Complete the album...top priority...then tour again.

[pilferk]

How committed to that are you though?

Meaning, suppose they take to the road yet again with no new album.  That puts you at least a year away from an album.

Would you be opposed to hearing a new song on that tour, much as we did on the 2001/02 and 2006/07 tours?

I just want to clear up one small thing:

By the above, you mean "take to the road with no new album FINISHED, and readying for release", I assume.

Because they could, potentially, start their tour before the actual release date of the album...even before the official release date of the single.  Heck, they did with the UYI albums, decades ago. As long as the music is finished, and they are waiting for either a release date to be granted, or the PR machine to ramp up, or just for the date to actually arrive, it doesn't mean anything. As long as the track list is picked, the music is mixed, the particulars are signed off on....in other words, once everything THEY are supposed to do is complete...it all good. But (and I know people hate hearing this) there is a process that has to play out that actually doesn't involve them all that much, and involves the labels A&R guys, marketing, production, etc.  No reason they can't be out playing shows, making music (and money) while that plays out.

I just want to be clear that going on tour, or scheduling tour dates, is not an automatic "Oh, another year til the album comes out", even if the album isn't actually on the shelves yet.

[D-GenerationX]

I just want to be clear that going on tour, or scheduling tour dates, is not an automatic "Oh, another year til the album comes out", even if the album isn't actually on the shelves yet.

I do not share the opinion that an album will come out once touring resumes.

If touring resumes with no album, I do not believe it is coming.  Furthermore, I will have serious doubts if it ever comes out.

They will have had just about a solid year to get their shit together.  Its not like that situation is new, because they had plenty of openings where you could say that.  Only now you have one of those openings, coupled with talk that they are going to "seriously take a look at things in that regard."

I realize this opens me up to scolding that I do not work in the music business.  I'm sure I will be given comparisons to the UYI tour. Or any other number of rationalizations that are the duty of real fans to make. 

It will fall on deaf ears.  It happens before the tour, or it does not happen, perhaps ever.  That is my stance.

[pilferk]

I do not share the opinion that an album will come out once touring resumes.

If touring resumes with no album, I do not believe it is coming.  Furthermore, I will have serious doubts if it ever comes out.

They will have had just about a solid year to get their shit together.  Its not like that situation is new, because they had plenty of openings where you could say that.  Only now you have one of those openings, coupled with talk that they are going to "seriously take a look at things in that regard."

I realize this opens me up to scolding that I do not work in the music business.  I'm sure I will be given comparisons to the UYI tour. Or any other number of rationalizations that are the duty of real fans to make. 

It will fall on deaf ears.  It happens before the tour, or it does not happen, perhaps ever.  That is my stance.

Fair enough.

I think if they've finished the album (and all that entails), and moved it on to the label to prep for release (and potentially even have a release date set..or are about to)...that going on the road doesn't somehow negate that and mean the album will never come out.

You can call them rationalizations...but they are historic reality.  It's just as easy to label your opinions as rationalizations to further your agenda (I'm not saying that's what they are, just that it's just as easy to dismiss as you have the counter points). You can think there might be a departure from history (and not just GnR...lots of bands go on tour just before a release)..but you're no "more right" than the opposing viewpoint. I'm not going to scold you for your opinion, because you point out many of the problems with your own position. You obviously realize it's not very defensible...

[D-GenerationX]

You can call them rationalizations...but they are historic reality.  It's just as easy to label your opinions as rationalizations to further your agenda (I'm not saying that's what they are, just that it's just as easy to dismiss as you have the counter points). You can think there might be a departure from history (and not just GnR...lots of bands go on tour just before a release)..but you're no "more right" than the opposing viewpoint. I'm not going to scold you for your opinion, because you point out many of the problems with your own position. You obviously realize it's not very defensible...

Historic reality, perhaps.  Apples to apples?  Not from where I sit.

First off, I am constantly told that its not 1991 anymore.  So for me to be given an example of something that happened in 1991 and translated to today, I'd point out how that "its not 1991 anymore" seems to be flexible, no?  If its me asking what's taking so long, hey, "its not 1991 anymore", asshole.  If its someone telling me to wait and see, they are free to point to a 1991 example?  Convenient.

But the bigger point is the events in 1991.  Yes, they began touring in 1991 without the UYI albums out.  Because, as usual with this band, they weren't done on time.  but there was an overall mindset that was the plan.  There was also HUGE demand for GNR material in 1991.  Today, not so much.  In 1991, the label was very concernd with getting it out.  in 2015, are they moving heaven and earth?  Not really.  Its going to be incumbent on the band.  And if you want to talk historical reality, the historical reality of that point with this band the past 15 years sucks right out loud.

[pilferk]

Historic reality, perhaps.  Apples to apples?  Not from where I sit.

Surely you realize your own bias, though? The only thing that can honestly be said is that it has happened before, both with Gnr, and with lots of other bands.

First off, I am constantly told that its not 1991 anymore.  So for me to be given an example of something that happened in 1991 and translated to today, I'd point out how that "its not 1991 anymore" seems to be flexible, no?  If its me asking what's taking so long, hey, "its not 1991 anymore", asshole.  If its someone telling me to wait and see, they are free to point to a 1991 example?  Convenient.

 

But GnR, in 1991, is not the only (or the most recent) instance of a band going on tour just prior to an album release.  Lots of bands do it. So this isn't so much a "look at 1991" comparison as it is "they've done it before AND other bands do it all the time" comparison.

But the bigger point is the events in 1991.  Yes, they began touring in 1991 without the UYI albums out.  Because, as usual with this band, they weren't done on time.  but there was an overall mindset that was the plan.  There was also HUGE demand for GNR material in 1991.  Today, not so much.  In 1991, the label was very concernd with getting it out.  in 2015, are they moving heaven and earth?  Not really.  Its going to be incumbent on the band.  And if you want to talk historical reality, the historical reality of that point with this band the past 15 years sucks right out loud.

Again, you're positing that they go on tour with material THEY have left to finish.

That's not, at all, what I'm proposing.  Maybe re-read?

And, in fact, you make my point for me by pointing out the label is likely not going to move heaven and earth to get this album out, even when/if the band finishes it.  The label will release it when they think it's best to do so, and that's not, likely, going to be a fast track release from the date the band completes it.

In the interim...the band can sit home and wait for the process with the label to complete..when they really don't have any influence on that timetable...or they could go on tour, maybe.  I'm not sure how the second makes the label go slower, or suddenly decide to NOT release the album at all.

[pilferk]

To be clear, I'm not "blaming" the label, or saying they'd be dragging their feet maliciously.  That's another discussion, and I think we've been there and done that.

But...there is a process the label goes through. That process takes time.  There's really no argument on that front.

My only clarification to the initial point was that, while that works itself out, I'm not sure why they couldn't be on the road, and why being on the road would have any impact on release date, in THAT situation.

[D-GenerationX]

Surely you realize your own bias, though? The only thing that can honestly be said is that it has happened before, both with Gnr, and with lots of other bands.

But GnR, in 1991, is not the only (or the most recent) instance of a band going on tour just prior to an album release.  Lots of bands do it. So this isn't so much a "look at 1991" comparison as it is "they've done it before AND other bands do it all the time" comparison

Ah, but "there are no other bands like GNR", right?  Or is that another one that one can apply when necessary?

On a more serious note, are a lot of other bands like GNR when it comes to this stuff?  There may be some supposed charm to them not being like anyone else, but in a situation like this, doesn't it hurt?  Meaning, I'd put way more stock in that concept that since other bands can do it, so can GNR, if GNR didn't march to their own beat when it comes to stuff like professionalism, promotion, and seeming to give a fuck.

And what of the label?  Do you think they spend a lot of time thinking about GNR?  I do not.  I tend to think if they turn something in, great.  If not, oh well.  I don't think much time is spent thinking about them, which was most certainly not the case in 1991.

Then there is label distrust.  Axl has told us "he doesn't feel he has a label".  Does that mean there is a great chance he turns it all in and hits the road and trusts hem to get it all done for him?  Doesn't that seem like a reach?  They fucked up the booklet last time, and that was supposedly with Axl giving this his full attention.  He's going to trust them when he is half a world away?  Does that seem likely?

[D-GenerationX]

To be clear, I'm not "blaming" the label, or saying they'd be dragging their feet maliciously.  That's another discussion, and I think we've been there and done that.

But...there is a process the label goes through. That process takes time.  There's really no argument on that front.

My only clarification to the initial point was that, while that works itself out, I'm not sure why they couldn't be on the road, and why being on the road would have any impact on release date, in THAT situation.

All true.

But as I said in the last post, I have a hard time believe Axl would turn this over to others, considering he felt he got fucked on that last time.  I assumed he would be a bit more hands on, which is why I think he would want this done before a tour that takes him all over the globe.

My bigger concern is that a tour starts up without anything being so much as turned in, and us getting that same "we're still looking at stuff" bit.  That happens, I think tis time to cash out.  You eventually reach a point where its long past time to question how committed Axl is to doing all this anymore.

I don't see a great argument that with a solid year to "seriously take a look in that regard" at long completed stuff, you couldn't get it together, all the more so after you said you were going to.  At that point, its hard to see a lot of optimism anything will ever change.

[pilferk]

Ah, but "there are no other bands like GNR", right?  Or is that another one that one can apply when necessary?

You're being glib just for the sake of it.

Remember...you're talking to me..not every other poster who has every posted here at HTGTH.  

I've never made that assertion.  In any event, while in some respects, they are different (and they're obvious differences...membership, etc)..in respects to what they can do while the label is in possession of finished material, I don't see why they should be held to a different standard.

On a more serious note, are a lot of other bands like GNR when it comes to this stuff?  There may be some supposed charm to them not being like anyone else, but in a situation like this, doesn't it hurt?  Meaning, I'd put way more stock in that concept that since other bands can do it, so can GNR, if GNR didn't march to their own beat when it comes to stuff like professionalism, promotion, and seeming to give a fuck.

Depends on the stuff.  It's not a line you can draw through everything...and a lot of the stuff you mention starts and ends with Axl, who DEFINITELY is different.  But, again...I was talking about a very specific "thing", and I don't think the line would extend to that particular "thing" in terms of "different".  Unless, of course, Axl delays touring so he can call the A&R guys every day to get a minute by minute update of the labels process of scheduling, marketing, and producing (meaning physically producing..disk pressing and file creation).  Which, given him penchant for micro managing is perfectly possible.  I'm just not sure that it's a sure thing, ya know.  He could very well want to get out and tour while he waits.  The label might even "suggest" it.

[quote
And what of the label?  Do you think they spend a lot of time thinking about GNR?  I do not.  I tend to think if they turn something in, great.  If not, oh well.  I don't think much time is spent thinking about them, which was most certainly not the case in 1991.
[/quote]

Nope, I don't. That actually goes straight to my point.  Once the band is done with the album, they've got to give the label some time to "spin up" to take care of it.  They're likely gonna have some lag time.  And, if your point is correct....do you really think the label is going to "pre-spin"? No, they're probably going to wait until they have the album in their actual hands to even start the process of release.

Thus, lots of down time for the band while they wait.

Then there is label distrust.  Axl has told us "he doesn't feel he has a label".  Does that mean there is a great chance he turns it all in and hits the road and trusts hem to get it all done for him?  Doesn't that seem like a reach?  They fucked up the booklet last time, and that was supposedly with Axl giving this his full attention.  He's going to trust them when he is half a world away?  Does that seem likely?

Ah, but that was my point: AFTER everything the band has to do is done. That includes the cover art and booklet.

Does he trust them? No...so I'm sure he'd insist on some contractual assurances.  And he can do SOME of that micromanaging from the road, if he feels he needs to.  Latigo Canyons is not the only place with internet and phone capabilities.  

[jarmo]

Let's play a hypothetical game.

The album is finished. The band and label are negotiating it's release.

At that point, do you:
A: Stay at home and wait.
B: Look at touring offers, consider them and book shows if they are good offers that make sense and fit the schedule.


Please enlighten us about how business works.
Thanks.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Ah, but "there are no other bands like GNR", right?  Or is that another one that one can apply when necessary?

You're being glib just for the sake of it.

Remember...you're talking to me..not every other poster who has every posted here at HTGTH.

On the first part, you are correct.  I am making light of that rather tired talking point.

On the second, no, I would not direct that at you, specifically.  I'm sorry if that's how it came across.  

Does he trust them? No...so I'm sure he'd insist on some contractual assurances.  And he can do SOME of that micromanaging from the road, if he feels he needs to.  Latigo Canyons is not the only place with internet and phone capabilities.  

I'd agree...but then how do you explain last time?

I was never able to square away how he spends almost a decade of his life on this thing, then let's it get all cocked up at the end.  Do his phones not dial out?

[McGann]

How many people
Ignore "hypothetical"
In that one, Jarmo??  😜😜😜

Splash

/Mike

[pilferk]

All true.

But as I said in the last post, I have a hard time believe Axl would turn this over to others, considering he felt he got fucked on that last time.  I assumed he would be a bit more hands on, which is why I think he would want this done before a tour that takes him all over the globe.

He doesn't, really, have a choice.  He can ask for contractual obligations to be written in as part of turning over music.  On the road or in his house...it's not going to much matter.

My bigger concern is that a tour starts up without anything being so much as turned in, and us getting that same "we're still looking at stuff" bit.  That happens, I think tis time to cash out.  You eventually reach a point where its long past time to question how committed Axl is to doing all this anymore.


I don't see a great argument that with a solid year to "seriously take a look in that regard" at long completed stuff, you couldn't get it together, all the more so after you said you were going to.  At that point, its hard to see a lot of optimism anything will ever change.

I mean..I guess.  Every day that passes means it's less and less likely we'll see another album, because (and not to be morbid) every day gets us closer to the end of Axl's life, too.

But that's a different point than mine and a different jumping off point.  I agree it's hard for them to get creative stuff and recording done when on the road.  If the music isn't done, and their side isn't turned over to the label before they go on a large scale tour (and not just a couple festival dates), then I somewhat agree. It likely means no album til well after the tour is complete.  I'll never say never with Axl, because he could drop an album of Skaa at 70 and I don't think I would be all that surprised.  Or he could decide to go all Howard Hughes tomorrow, and I'd likewise not be all that surprised.  I think that's part of his appeal, actually.  It can be maddeningly frustrating at times, admittedly.

[D-GenerationX]

Let's play a hypothetical game.

The album is finished. The band and label are negotiating it's release.

At that point, do you:
A: Stay at home and wait.
B: Look at touring offers, consider them and book shows if they are good offers that make sense and fit the schedule.

The bit in bold is a monster leap.

Please enlighten us about how business works.
Thanks.

Ah, more snit from the king of snit.

My initial point (which, in a shocking move, you have decided to mischaracterize and make me address your new interpretation...which I am not doing this time) was that I highly question whether your bit in bold even happens.  And if there is nothing to turn in before the tour, you have to start asking yourself if there ever will be.

[D-GenerationX]

But that's a different point than mine and a different jumping off point.  I agree it's hard for them to get creative stuff and recording done when on the road.  If the music isn't done, and their side isn't turned over to the label before they go on a large scale tour (and not just a couple festival dates), then I somewhat agree. It likely means no album til well after the tour is complete.

Agreed.

But don't you see it as a bigger problem if he has nothing for them by the time that comes?

Given the band members other commitments, GNR can't really start touring until May 2015 at the earliest.  Their last show was 6/7/14.  Obviosuyl, they didn't start work on the settling on a tracklist and overdubs the next day.  But you'd have the far better part of a calendar year here.

Do you see any conceivable scenario he cannot be ready to roll in that time frame?  And if you do, why should I believe that will ever change?

[pilferk]

I'd agree...but then how do you explain last time?

I was never able to square away how he spends almost a decade of his life on this thing, then let's it get all cocked up at the end.  Do his phones not dial out?

I suspect there was an unusual confluence of "stuff" going on at the time CD came out.  I suspect there were some massive gaps in communication that had a LOT to do with the GnR management team at the time (and, specifically, that the guy at the top . There was also some highly placed turnover at the label right around the same time.

The short answer is: I don't know.  Not for certain.  But I think what you point out....how out of character it would be for Axl to let things slide that way...actually speaks volumes.

I know, I know...you want to lay the blame completely at Axl's feet.  And I'm sure he deserves to shoulder some of it.  

But do me a favor: Look at the timeline of the Ticketmaster aquisition of Front line management, the release of CD, and Azoff's assention to heading Ticketmaster (and eventually LiveNation).

I'm not going to sit here and say it was all Azoffs fault.  But certainly you can see some circumstantial evidence that might indicate he was a wee bit distracted in the run up to CD's release.  

I think there were massive communications breakdowns going into the release.  And given that usually the label deals directly with the management (and not talent)...I think stuff might have gotten lost in the mail

All that's complete speculation, and I'm making sure to label it as such.  I have zero evidence.  BUT, I think it makes a lot more sense than thinking that Axl went MIA, and hands off, leading up to the release of the culmination of a decades worth of work.