WES BORLAND TO REPLACE BUCKETHEAD?!

[Izzy]

What makes Gilby more of a GNR player?

Hot damn, maybe the fact he's been on a GNR album?

And Izzy, I'll call you and say I think Finck plays the SCOM solo *better* than Slash. Yep.

I feel some what vindicated by that stupid statement.

I take some satisfaction that no one has been able to give me a sensible argument for either Finck or Fortus. Saying their 'great' doesn't transform them into something else....

I notice the same people so deeply in love with Finck are often the same people who were so in love with Buckethead....but now despise him since he left......

Axl Rose isn't King Midas. Not everything he touches turns to gold.

[badapple81]

Sometimes u lot puzzle me

Many people claim they don't want Wes Borland and his 'nu metal' in GNR - but raise no complaints to Nsync Fortus

I think we can all agree no matter how bad Limp Bizkit are, they are considerably better than Nysnc and Enrigue Inglesias.....

Sometimes people who don't understand the fact that he wasn't part of NSYNC puzzle me.  

It was a job just like GN'R. He's a professional musician, NSYNC paid him to play with them, so he did. It doesn't make him a band member.



/jarmo

I don't see where i said he was member of Nysnc.....

Well Izzy..

You CONSTANTLY refer to him as Nsync Fortus..

And you compared peoples views on Wes Borland being from Limp Bizkit/the nu metal scene and 'Nsync Fortus', as if Fortus was a member of Nsync like Wes was in Limp Bizkit.

Again, he did some session/live stuff as a job! Nsync are hardly a proper band (I classify a band as a group playing the instruments) anyway, he was basically a background musician. I guess we'll go over this again next week with you.

[Slipdisc]

Ever heard of Michael Angelo, Tony Rice, John Petruccie, Yngwie Malmsteen etc..?

Not only heard them but saw them live too (some)...

Buckethead and Lane are eons ahead any of those players. Lane is not only the best guitarist that even picked up the axe, he is also one of the best musicians of the past century. Both Buckethead and Lane admired each others work a lot (Lane was very impressed by Buck's crazy style and ability to create very ambient records like Colma).

The fact that Buckethead eventually found a way to play (in a live setting) a piece Lane constructed (by recording individual notes) of which he (Lane) thought it could NEVER be played live, earned Buckethead a lot of respect. Later Buckethead based alot of his style on this.

Lane is the one guitarist who humiliated both Vai and Malmsteen, by showing up at shows or clinics and then play pieces of which he knew that those players never really mastered them (like "Presto Vivace", Malmsteen still cries himself to sleep over this ).

None of those players can stand in Lane or Buck s shadow. Angelo isn t even a real musician, the things he does are more suitable to be displayed in a circus, pure guitar-gymnastics.

-PEACE-


PS: I know offtopic, but I already gave my opinion on Borland (It hasn t changed  ).

[Izzy]

Sometimes u lot puzzle me

Many people claim they don't want Wes Borland and his 'nu metal' in GNR - but raise no complaints to Nsync Fortus

I think we can all agree no matter how bad Limp Bizkit are, they are considerably better than Nysnc and Enrigue Inglesias.....

Sometimes people who don't understand the fact that he wasn't part of NSYNC puzzle me.  

It was a job just like GN'R. He's a professional musician, NSYNC paid him to play with them, so he did. It doesn't make him a band member.



/jarmo

I don't see where i said he was member of Nysnc.....

Well Izzy..

You CONSTANTLY refer to him as Nsync Fortus..

And you compared peoples views on Wes Borland being from Limp Bizkit/the nu metal scene and 'Nsync Fortus', as if Fortus was a member of Nsync like Wes was in Limp Bizkit.

Again, he did some session/live stuff as a job! Nsync are hardly a proper band (I classify a band as a group playing the instruments) anyway, he was basically a background musician. I guess we'll go over this again next week with you.

Look i'm tired of this - i will remind u i didn't start this 'debate' anyway

Its the hypocracy that pisses me off

Its alright for people to not want Borland in the group because he was once with Limp Bizkit but its not alright for me to be annoyed because of the shit Fortus has played with in the past, wtf?

Do you see the lack of consistency??

I have never said he was a member of Nysnc.....

At the end of the day i am entitled to my opinion. I don't like Fortus and i have limited faith in Finck's ability.

U disagree. Big deal.

I don't try and change your views on the band so why do u feel the need to attack mine?

I'm here for the genius that is Axl Rose. I don't have to like the fools he's surrounded himself with.

[jarmo]

I'm here for the genius that is Axl Rose. I don't have to like the fools he's surrounded himself with.

Too bad he can't play all the instruments by himself so that you could be happy....  



/jarmo

[Counterfeit_God]

I'm here for the genius that is Axl Rose. I don't have to like the fools he's surrounded himself with.

Too bad he can't play all the instruments by himself so that you could be happy....  


/jarmo

Dammit Jarmo, dont go giving him any more sly Ideas.  I dont want to wait 10 more years while he learns drums and bass!!

[Lesty]

Dammit Jarmo, dont go giving him any more sly Ideas.  I dont want to wait 10 more years while he learns drums and bass!!

No kidding. Too bad Axl can't hook up with Prince. Prince will play all the instruments on the record, produce it and even sing the vocals that Axl doesn't feel like finishing.

[Izzy]

Dammit Jarmo, dont go giving him any more sly Ideas.  I dont want to wait 10 more years while he learns drums and bass!!

No kidding. Too bad Axl can't hook up with Prince. Prince will play all the instruments on the record, produce it and even sing the vocals that Axl doesn't feel like finishing.

Or Lenny Kravitz, he plays the whole damn orchestra!!!!!

[Voodoochild]

Izzy, you asked about some good original stuff by Fortus and Finck. Anything I'll say here you'll disagree but, it's a subjective thing anyways, so, we can stay only in one song: The Blues.
- Finck wrote that middle solo (not Zakky Wylde, please everyone, don't come with this bullshit again) and, for sure, it's amazing. I guess a lot of people thinks the same. It have soul, power and a big evolution with the wha-wha (reminds me a bit of Slash's solo in SCOM). Period. I'm talkin' about writing, not the performance (I know Finck screw up the solos and riffs sometimes - yes, sometimes, not all the time, as some likes to complain).
- Fortus played some incredible outro solos for this same song. In my opinion, the Pittsburgh one is the best, but he did an awesome job in other NA shows. He did improve Madagascar a lot too and, with Finck's guitar work in this song, it makes the tune very powerful.
As you know, we just know a few "new" songs, so I guess it's not that fair to compare to all the stuff Slash wrote. And, as you know too, it's not this guys fault that Axl want to hide his "big guns", as he said once (and so many doubt).
One more time: it's my opinion, you'll disagree for sure, but don't back with this:

I take some satisfaction that no one has been able to give me a sensible argument for either Finck or Fortus. Saying their 'great' doesn't transform them into something else....

I guess saying their "fools" doesn't transform them into something else either...

[Izzy]

Izzy, you asked about some good original stuff by Fortus and Finck. Anything I'll say here you'll disagree but, it's a subjective thing anyways, so, we can stay only in one song: The Blues.
- Finck wrote that middle solo (not Zakky Wylde, please everyone, don't come with this bullshit again) and, for sure, it's amazing. I guess a lot of people thinks the same. It have soul, power and a big evolution with the wha-wha (reminds me a bit of Slash's solo in SCOM). Period. I'm talkin' about writing, not the performance (I know Finck screw up the solos and riffs sometimes - yes, sometimes, not all the time, as some likes to complain).
- Fortus played some incredible outro solos for this same song. In my opinion, the Pittsburgh one is the best, but he did an awesome job in other NA shows. He did improve Madagascar a lot too and, with Finck's guitar work in this song, it makes the tune very powerful.
As you know, we just know a few "new" songs, so I guess it's not that fair to compare to all the stuff Slash wrote. And, as you know too, it's not this guys fault that Axl want to hide his "big guns", as he said once (and so many doubt).
One more time: it's my opinion, you'll disagree for sure, but don't back with this:

I take some satisfaction that no one has been able to give me a sensible argument for either Finck or Fortus. Saying their 'great' doesn't transform them into something else....

I guess saying their "fools" doesn't transform them into something else either...

There's an attempt there at an argument

First off IF Finck did write the part in the Blues then that shows promise but to counter that i could point to the er....well his 'efforts' in NIN.........also while the Blues is a wonderful song the guitars are hardly awesome, they are good but lets keep this in perspective.

As for Fortus he wrote none of the new stuff, having joined after they had already performed those songs. Perhaps he is a creative genuis, we don't have the evidence to say either way. My problem with him is not really his guitar ability, i have already said he is very competant.

Anyway, i'm getting a little bored of this. Ultimately we're debating their potential for GNR. I don't think there up to it, other people think they are. Its not the end of the world.

I also thought this thread was about Wes Borland (a fine guitarist).......

[Mutherfunker]

Hmmmm, I think I'll write a post on topic.....  

We are lead to believe that the songs on Chinese Democracy have been composed (i.e structure/solos/etc), and songs maybe for another couple of albums too.

Therefore if Borland were to come in, it would be to play these songs live for definate and maybe record parts for the albums.

There is no way Axl is gonna get someone in who can't do this, or someone who doesn't have as much of a contribution to make as Buckethead. That would be going backwards, and as we know, the man's a perfectionist.

It follows then that if Wes did join GNR, then musically Axl would see him as up to scratch, and the songs would be as good. So musically I don't have a problem with him joining.

As for commercial success. Now we're talking!!! Ex Limp Bizkit guitarist Wes Borland, Axl Rose, Guns N Roses. Old Axl fans, Bizkit/Borland fans. Like it or not, that album would sell like a motherfucker.

Of course you have to wonder how Borland's sound will effect future albums if he becomes a long term member. That might put a lot of traditional GNR fans off a lot. Then again some here would have you believe that Axl decides every note and the band are just puppets  

@#$%Muther

[GNR_Green]

It follows then that if Wes did join GNR, then musically Axl would see him as up to scratch, and the songs would be as good. So musically I don't have a problem with him joining.

As for commercial success. Now we're talking!!! Ex Limp Bizkit guitarist Wes Borland, Axl Rose, Guns N Roses. Old Axl fans, Bizkit/Borland fans. Like it or not, that album would sell like a motherfucker.

Not in direct response to you Motherfunker, but I have to pick up on these points.

I haven't listened to a lot of LB but I know all the well known stuff obviously.  To put it bluntly the playing on their songs is diabolical, can you even name one song with an average solo?  I'm not saying that technical ability is everything, but there's only so much you can do without it.  Borland has managed to produce a couple of 'catchy' riffs but that's the limit.  Bucket could come up with millions times better stuff than every guitarist from nu-metal put together.

The other point is one I just don't get.  Why is it so important for people here that CD is a great commercial success?  What does it prove?  It's got to be quite marketable obviously in so far as it's on a huge record label (who want to be satisfied it can be sold in large quantities before releasing it at all), but I couldn't give a fuck about that personally and neither should anyone else here.  If it comes out it comes out and that's it.

[Mutherfunker]

To tell you the truth, I want the album more than anything whether it's commercially succesful or not. However, there is a side of me that wants to say to people "See, I told you so..... Guns N Roses are the fuckin best". The only way I'll be able to do that is if it makes a huge impact commercially. I suppose that's the reason for many people.

Your right about LB's music. There's nothing there to suggest musical brilliance. But like I say, if he does get into GNR, he must be capable of doing the job. Chances are he won't and he isn't.

@#$%Muther

[Slashly]

Well, a topic about wes borland  ended un being a topic about the new Gnrs shity guitarrists...

Fink wrote the solo, for sure, it's amazing

:hihi:C?m on!!It isn?t a bad solo but I could make a better one myself.

not Zakky Wylde, please everyone, don't come with this bullshit again)

Of course he didn?t!!!Zakk  is waaaaay better guitarrist and he could have made a magnificient solo!!
I?m definetley not a fortus hater but definetley a fink hater!!

[Miz]

Michael Angelo, Tony Rice, John Petruccie, Yngwie Malmsteen would all make me puke.

I wasn't saying they should be in GN'R.  I was saying that they're all just as good if not better than Bucket.

And do you even know who Tony Rice is?

Michael Angelo sounds to ponsy anyhow.  I suggest he change his fake name to Leonardo DaVinci.

Michael Angelo is his real name.  And even if it wasn't, I'm sorry, I didn't realise you we're so against stage names...like AXL, IZZY, SLASH and DUFF...

Damnit... If I wanted another 80's Cock-Rock band - I would be here - But I want something innovative....

Yeah, I didn't think you knew who Tony Rice was.

[Miz]

Ever heard of Michael Angelo, Tony Rice, John Petruccie, Yngwie Malmsteen etc..?

Not only heard them but saw them live too (some)...

Buckethead and Lane are eons ahead any of those players. Lane is not only the best guitarist that even picked up the axe, he is also one of the best musicians of the past century. Both Buckethead and Lane admired each others work a lot (Lane was very impressed by Buck's crazy style and ability to create very ambient records like Colma).

The fact that Buckethead eventually found a way to play (in a live setting) a piece Lane constructed (by recording individual notes) of which he (Lane) thought it could NEVER be played live, earned Buckethead a lot of respect. Later Buckethead based alot of his style on this.

Lane is the one guitarist who humiliated both Vai and Malmsteen, by showing up at shows or clinics and then play pieces of which he knew that those players never really mastered them (like "Presto Vivace", Malmsteen still cries himself to sleep over this ).

None of those players can stand in Lane or Buck s shadow. Angelo isn t even a real musician, the things he does are more suitable to be displayed in a circus, pure guitar-gymnastics.

-PEACE-


PS: I know offtopic, but I already gave my opinion on Borland (It hasn t changed  ).

Well, yeah, Lane is better than all of them.  But Buckethead isn't.  I was talking about guitar playing ability, and Angelo is better player than Buckethead.Malmsteen...well that's debatable..(has been and will be for all eternity), I personally don't like him anywhere near as much as Bucket, but my main point wasn't to argue who was actually the best, it was that Buckethead and Lane aren't (/weren't RIP) the only people who could play the guitar.

[Voodoochild]

Well, a topic about wes borland  ended un being a topic about the new Gnrs shity guitarrists...

Wes Borland is shit and don't deserves all this talking. But, anyways, I'm talking about how the actual GNR line up is good enough, despite what some people likes to say. Of course Borland is not welcome in this band. He has no skills to replace Buckethead. Period. It needs anything more to say?

:hihi:C?m on!!It isn?t a bad solo but I could make a better one myself.

Yeah, sure, you could do a better solo than anyone in any song. But you didn't. Malmsteen could do a better job than Hendrix, but he didn't. Maybe I could make a better job myself too, but I didn't. So what?
It's very easy to say that... As I said before, it's not like I'm the only person who thinks this solo is amazing. Even if it was, it's my opinion. Too bad you disagree.

Of course he didn?t!!!Zakk  is waaaaay better guitarrist and he could have made a magnificient solo!!

Yeah, Zakk is a fucking killer guitar player. But hey, maybe he would just shred and put his harmonics in this solo and could make a piece of shit near this Finck's solo. I know it wouldn't gonna happen this way, but I'm trying to explain how something just fit and it's good the way it is.

I?m definetley not a fortus hater but definetley a fink hater!!

You're a Finck hater? No way dude, I'm shocked!      See? That's why anything I said here and in that another post above you will disagree. You just hate the guy and anything he play you'll dislike. It's just a taste thing...

[Fuckin' Gunner]

Borland...now there's a great guitarist!

Why dont Axl hire the guy from Linkin Park as well, and we would really get the party started!

Man, I hope tou?re joking... this two guys just can?t play... they just put and effect and play and aleatory note... just horrible...

[alwaysoutparading]

The other point is one I just don't get.  Why is it so important for people here that CD is a great commercial success?  What does it prove?  It's got to be quite marketable obviously in so far as it's on a huge record label (who want to be satisfied it can be sold in large quantities before releasing it at all), but I couldn't give a fuck about that personally and neither should anyone else here.  If it comes out it comes out and that's it.

I think it's important to some of us that CD do well because we're all rooting for Axl in one way or another. We (atleast the one who are anticipating CDs release) hope that his efforts pay off. We want to see him succeed.  Also, if CD does well, it will open up the door to many things we'd love - like encouraging him to put out follow up CDs, merchandise, tours, MTV coverage. If CD sells well, GNR will be huge again and for some of us that means that music/pop culture will be interesting again.

[Fuckin' Gunner]

Hmmmm, I think I'll write a post on topic.....  

As for commercial success. Now we're talking!!! Ex Limp Bizkit guitarist Wes Borland, Axl Rose, Guns N Roses. Old Axl fans, Bizkit/Borland fans. Like it or not, that album would sell like a motherfucker.

You are confusing Guns N? Roses and Britney Spears...