Ban On Politics

[Will]

Christos and I pretty much have the same point of view on this.

I actually had hope that people would've learned by now how to discuss matters with no name calling or other stupid shit... I thought the 'trial' thread that we had going went on very well.. until...

I wish they would learn, but they just never will. Especially not on the internet. They're behind their computer screen and type whatever they want. And they just can't control themselves. I don't think I've ever seen a political thread on the internet without a racist/ anti-religion/ anti-something remark. All could go for the best and then just one guy comes in and says he hates America and Bush or he hates Islam and muslims (disclaimer: only an example, I do not approve of either of these opinions). Just one remark by one person, and everything goes downhill from there. That's how it goes. I know it's sad, but I don't think it will change anytime soon.

[Brody]

just for the record.. I wasnt name calling..

[Mal Brossard]

Like I said, that forum just needs one or two hardcore moderators who are willing and able to read everything, delete and warn when necessary, and not let things get out of hand.  The trial thread was going great until the insults, falsehoods, and assumptions got thrown around.  Had there been a political moderator to step in and get things to settle down, the thread could have been an intelligent discussion.

All I'm asking for is a trial of a new spin-off forum for politics with an effective moderator (As I said before, I'd be willing and able to do it) who can be a, well, "moderate" moderator.  Neither left-wing nor right-wing.  Neither lets everything go to anarchy, nor "fascistly" locks a topic at the first sign of dissent.  If it fails, it fails, so be it, we'll agree to drop it.  All I'm asking is for the opportunity to reopen political discussion.

I'm a member of another message board that has some of the best political discussions ever.  They have good supporters of all sides of an argument, debate their points well with limited insulting.  And it's dedicated to hockey fights of all things!

In the main forum over there, any threads that turned to name-calling or other problems were sent off to another board where the people could hurl insults at each other all day and night and it wouldn't clog up the board.  If it left that forum, they got posts deleted and a warning.  If it happened a second time, 3-day suspension.  Third time, 2-week suspension.  Fourth time, banned.

There are people at this site who can do it without name-calling (just look at some of the past discussions between myself and the former poster GNRNightrain-- we had some good-natured barbs thrown about, but also were able to keep it clean and serious for the most part).  Why should these people be punished with everyone else?

By banning political discussion, then allowing some as a "trial," you can guarantee people would start hurling insults at each other pretty quickly.  Views are bottled up for so long that any venom saved up from previous discussions would all spew out.  It could take a couple weeks for the crap to die down when it's brought back, but afterward, real political discussions could occur.

And yes, I do know that this is dedicated to a band and its music.  But we have forums here to discuss other world/life matters, sports, other music, and such.  While its main purpose is GNR, it has other discussions going on here as well.  Hell, the main reason I come here is because of the Jungle and Fun & Games sections.  You'll probably see that most of my posts are there.  I do read the other sections and post in them occasionally, but I post in those two primarily.

Like I said-- negative karma, suspensions, potential for banning in the future, etc. would be enough to help keep it cleaner than before.  It just needs a moderator who can be fair in treatment of all those being punished and willing to monitor the forum closely.  And I'd be willing to do it if tapped for the position.

[Slashead]

Let's give Duffman13235 (aka Mal Brossard) his chance!

[SLCPUNK]

Why bother to keep asking for it? I have seen politics on other forums banned as well, not just here.

There are a zillion other forums you can discuss politics on.

Currently I take my political rants to my fourm, myspace and a car forum (off section is highly political) I belong to. It is more than enough. (Besides, we turned out to be correct anyway what is really left to discuss?)


Threads in the jungle are 98 percent boring, I'll admit. But that is just as much our fault as anything else. Want it to be exciting? Post something exciting...............

[Markus Asraelius]

Want it to be exciting? Post something exciting...............

I agree 100 percent. This is just the kind of attitude to have.

But, speaking of the jungle, the only exciting threads to come along are the sexual threads...

[Christos AG]

Like I said, that forum just needs one or two hardcore moderators who are willing and able to read everything, delete and warn when necessary, and not let things get out of hand.  The trial thread was going great until the insults, falsehoods, and assumptions got thrown around.  Had there been a political moderator to step in and get things to settle down, the thread could have been an intelligent discussion.

All I'm asking for is a trial of a new spin-off forum for politics with an effective moderator (As I said before, I'd be willing and able to do it) who can be a, well, "moderate" moderator.  Neither left-wing nor right-wing.  Neither lets everything go to anarchy, nor "fascistly" locks a topic at the first sign of dissent.  If it fails, it fails, so be it, we'll agree to drop it.  All I'm asking is for the opportunity to reopen political discussion.

I'm a member of another message board that has some of the best political discussions ever.  They have good supporters of all sides of an argument, debate their points well with limited insulting.  And it's dedicated to hockey fights of all things!

In the main forum over there, any threads that turned to name-calling or other problems were sent off to another board where the people could hurl insults at each other all day and night and it wouldn't clog up the board.  If it left that forum, they got posts deleted and a warning.  If it happened a second time, 3-day suspension.  Third time, 2-week suspension.  Fourth time, banned.

There are people at this site who can do it without name-calling (just look at some of the past discussions between myself and the former poster GNRNightrain-- we had some good-natured barbs thrown about, but also were able to keep it clean and serious for the most part).  Why should these people be punished with everyone else?

By banning political discussion, then allowing some as a "trial," you can guarantee people would start hurling insults at each other pretty quickly.  Views are bottled up for so long that any venom saved up from previous discussions would all spew out.  It could take a couple weeks for the crap to die down when it's brought back, but afterward, real political discussions could occur.

And yes, I do know that this is dedicated to a band and its music.  But we have forums here to discuss other world/life matters, sports, other music, and such.  While its main purpose is GNR, it has other discussions going on here as well.  Hell, the main reason I come here is because of the Jungle and Fun & Games sections.  You'll probably see that most of my posts are there.  I do read the other sections and post in them occasionally, but I post in those two primarily.

Like I said-- negative karma, suspensions, potential for banning in the future, etc. would be enough to help keep it cleaner than before.  It just needs a moderator who can be fair in treatment of all those being punished and willing to monitor the forum closely.  And I'd be willing to do it if tapped for the position.

We gave it a chance, it didn't work. THAT simple.

Why get another moderator just cause some people wanna talk politics and go through the whole trouble ALL OVER AGAIN, when you can simply avoid a topic, that only 10-15 people care so much about?

You can post all you want, as far as I'm concerned no politics on this forum. It's too good to fuck it up...

[Mal Brossard]

And what a "chance" it was.  One thread largely ignored by moderators until things went to far is barely giving things a chance.  That's more of a "set it up and watch as it fails, rather than try to control things" than giving it an honest chance.

I used to go through and read the Jungle a couple times a day because the discussion there was so good on a number of topics.  We got perspectives from members of many different backgrounds and views: different political ideologies, different religions, different races, different nationalities.  Things did get heated at times, but it was because there was no control over things.  Political threads were allowed to run rampant with little to no control over them until the damage had already been done.  Moderation was reactive to what had happened already and the messes they allowed to grow, rather than proactive in trying to prevent further problems and cut them off at the start.  Now I check it maybe once every couple of days.  The discussions have been inane, sometimes bordering on mind-numbing (role playing?  The typical "dude, I like this chick, but I have no idea what to do, help me!" topics, the Rock-Anderson wedding, etc.).  The "What Happened to this Section?" threads make some good points.

The easy way out is just to ban politics entirely, but this doesn't help anyone out other than those who don't like political talk.  A better way for all involved is to actually pay attention to what's happening or find someone who will.  We've had a period of cooling off.  Six months with no discussion is enough for people to settle down a tad.  The one topic brought back obviously had a good start to it, but no one with any power here paid any attention to it until all hell had already broken loose.

All I've ever asked for is a chance on my idea and just keep getting the same "No, just because the powers say so" kind of responses.  It's obvious there are people here who back my idea, or at least see that I am making a good point-- they've posted in this thread.  How besides those involved here would be likely to post there at some point?  Probably more than the 10-15 estimate.

[Christos AG]

You can post all you want, as far as I'm concerned no politics on this forum. It's too good to fuck it up...

[Jim]

This ain't no democray sir,

you're way too much of a keano to be considered for moderation,

(the first rule of moderating is, you don't ask about moderating.......... You can speak about it afterwards, that's all right, but never ask to join us on olympus)

... And, lastly,... I may well agree with you. Well. I might not go that far, but still. I would like to see politics make a return at some point. Before the height of the religious invasion that helped bring down political discussion, a child board for politics and current affairs was actually in the pipeline!, so it isn't neglect of the idea. The thing is, the administration has decided not to allow discussion because, well, this is his house and while there may be ways "around" the problem (around), they aren't easy to solve and the OWNER of this site sees no reasons to go to the trouble of sorting something out,

not right now at least. Why should he?

[Mal Brossard]

you're way too much of a keano to be considered for moderation,

Keano?  Define please.

And, lastly,... I may well agree with you. Well. I might not go that far, but still. I would like to see politics make a return at some point. Before the height of the religious invasion that helped bring down political discussion, a child board for politics and current affairs was actually in the pipeline!, so it isn't neglect of the idea. The thing is, the administration has decided not to allow discussion because, well, this is his house and while there may be ways "around" the problem (around), they aren't easy to solve and the OWNER of this site sees no reasons to go to the trouble of sorting something out,

not right now at least. Why should he?

I still don't agree with the decision, but at least this is finally closer to the response I was looking for rather than the sort of "The council says no" response with a bunch of different reasons that I;ve eventually refuted that I've gotten repeatedly before.

I still think my idea would work if given a chance and won't completely give up the fight until political discussion is permitted by the board police to return.

EDIT: Wow, this was my 600th post.

[Jim]

I don't know. Read between the lines. Wait, no, I meant read between the brackets. Derive a definition from the combination of said explanation and the removal of a letter. Oh, and the 'much of a.'

[LeftToDecay]

I can point you to at least 2 or 3 dozen others that "ban" hardcore political discussion..

Please do.

[Mal Brossard]

Ah, too keen on becoming a moderator.  Gotcha.

[Will]

If you guys REALLY want to discuss politics, why don't you do it on another board, maybe one dedicated to this kind of discussions? And maybe come here just for your GN'R/ music needs?

I don't know, just an idea.

[pilferk]

I can point you to at least 2 or 3 dozen others that "ban" hardcore political discussion..

Please do.

http://messages.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=93410

http://abacomessageboard.com/

http://www.mousebuzz.com/forum/mousebuzz-questions/10986-political-statements.html?highlight=politics

http://www.crf2.com/

http://www.alpinezone.com/forums/

http://forums.di.fm/

http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=124514

http://www.shottalk.com/forum/printthread.php?t=7

http://swordforum.com/forums/

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/index.php? used to have (though I'm not sure if they still do) a strict no politics rule.? It's not expressly stated in their rules, and they don't have an off topic forum, but there have been "political" posts made that were promptly deleted.

http://www.britishcarforum.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?Cat=0

http://www.ocforums.com/index.php?s=


There's the first dozen from my IE favorites (with most of them actually pointing to WHERE it says no politics, so you don't have to go searching).? If you'd REALLY like another dozen, just let me know....but I think you get the point.

Having a "no politics" mandate, when the main subject of the board has nothing to do with politics, isn't exactly rare.

[Surfrider]

With all due respect, I believe that part of the problem was that there was selective moderating.? I think it is pretty much indisputable that most of the moderators lean to the left.? For example, if someone says something insensitive about muslims or a loony liberal, they will be quickly admonished.? Yet, if someone makes an anti-Christian comment or calls someone a racist or a biggot, these insults were often left alone.? I also believe that there are buddy-buddy relationships between the moderators and certain posters.? In my opinion, this led to inconsistent moderating and banning, which in turn led some of the right-wingers to bitch and moan.? If there was consistent moderating of everyone, regardless of viewpoint, I believe that many of the problems would have gone away.

I am not arguing that the political threads should be allowed; I am simply stating what I believe had an impact on the way the threads got out of control.? However, I must say that part of the reason that the political discussions were interesting is because there are many people on this board from all backgrounds and all parts of the world.? I enjoyed reading how people in different countries perceived events around the world.?

[heinous]

With all due respect, I believe that part of the problem was that there was selective moderating.? I think it is pretty much indisputable that most of the moderators lean to the left.? For example, if someone says something insensitive about muslims or a loony liberal, they will be quickly admonished.? Yet, if someone is called racist or a biggot, these insults were often left alone.? I also believe that there are buddy-buddy relationships between the moderators and certain posters.? In my opinion, this led to inconsistent moderating and banning, which in turn led some of the right-wingers to bitch and moan.? If there was consistent moderating of everyone, regardless of viewpoint, I believe that many of the problems would have gone away.

Soooooo very, very true.

[LeftToDecay]

Http://Njahnjahnjah.com/
x 12

Well, I'm very glad I have somehow managed to avoid such forums this far.
How very depressing there actually are some webmasters that do something like that.

In some cases boardcrew telling people what they can and can not talk about in an offtopic forum is very undrstandable.
Official sites of various larger than life corporations, industries come to mind.Official forums that are partially  responsible for upholding a an image/brand potentially vunlerable to varying net filth might want a strict moderation. If www.disney.com/forums existed, i suppose mods there wouldn't want people going apeshit.

In my eyes, there just isn't an excuse for a "independed" webmaster,  who just doesn't have "external" issues to worry about,  to start telling people what off topic issues they can and can not talk about,
Of course a webmaster can do so.
His board and all that.
It doesn't however remove the fact that is is plain insulting and  very disrespetfull towards the community.

[SLCPUNK]

With all due respect, I believe that part of the problem was that there was selective moderating.  I think it is pretty much indisputable that most of the moderators lean to the left.  For example, if someone says something insensitive about muslims or a loony liberal, they will be quickly admonished.  Yet, if someone is called racist or a biggot, these insults were often left alone.  I also believe that there are buddy-buddy relationships between the moderators and certain posters.  In my opinion, this led to inconsistent moderating and banning, which in turn led some of the right-wingers to bitch and moan.  If there was consistent moderating of everyone, regardless of viewpoint, I believe that many of the problems would have gone away.

Soooooo very, very true.

This was discussed before.

People who made racist comments were called racists. Then those people got upset because they were called on it.

Sand Nigger, towelheads etc.

The Katrina thread also brought the racists out too.

Crying about "left leaning" mods is not being realistic when it comes to that. Most people are not racist and find that type of talk repulsive.