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Author Topic: What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?  (Read 182689 times)
The Catcher
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« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2009, 04:43:29 AM »

Street Of Dreams would definately be a radio friendly single, yes. It's immensely sad that that's what it has to come down to, though.
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« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2009, 05:13:43 AM »

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"I didn't hear anything catchy, it sucks"

People just underestimate the importance of a single these days.  Think about AFD if SCOM was never released = Guns may never have been so huge.  People think TIL would make an epic single but i disagree.  I think SOD would be much more "Radio Friendly".

Both would crash upon landing.  Neither are what the public wants to hear.  If such were the case you would have heard them on the radio.  Labels do not spend all this money test marketing material for nothing.

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« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2009, 05:16:17 AM »

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What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?

The name of the band on the cover of the album. As simple as that.
Probably than fans of the old band know about the current situation and care ( or don't ) to hear this album but
GnR haven't had any exposure outside of concerts and the VMA's since...well...a lot so I don't know why
anybody who wasn't a fan of the band in the first place should care about their return inforunately.

For instance, if Ron Thal didn't join, I probably wouldn't have been really interested in this album and it really
would have been my loss since it's probably my all time favourite...GnR even replaced NIN as my favourite band
with this album and that says a lot.

There is also a LOT of people who wanted to hate that album and simply don't consider it a GnR album because
Slash isn't playing on it...And I can understand that in a way. I wouldn't be interested in a Faith no More tour
if Mike Patton had been replaced for instance...

But yeah, that's unfortunate for a lot of people. This album is incredibly good.
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« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2009, 05:17:47 AM »

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Street Of Dreams would definately be a radio friendly single, yes. It's immensely sad that that's what it has to come down to, though.

It is indeed but i think you're right and this is the reality of music.  Even just a few years ago when i was a teenager, there wasnt ultra fast broadband so If you wanted music you had to buy CDs and listen.  Promotion does seem to be a key factor these days though
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« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2009, 05:29:36 AM »

for one, not enough people have heard the album

Thats what happens when you don't go all over the place promoting it and doing videos and radio interviews etc and  u put it in a small ass electronic chain.

GNR would've been better served taking a lesser money deal to have it in Target or Walmart. I know that is mostly the record label but still, BB barely have 1000 stores, the promotion was just horrible and lets face it. GNR picked the worst first single imaginable.

we live in a microwave society where everybody wants it "RIGHT NOW"  a 1 minute intro, the verses and chorus are hook free............

I personally don't like "Better" but I think if it had been the first single, things would've went a lot haha BETTER.



Also, I think the album is too epic heavy............ I know for me, had this album came out in 2002 considering how depressed,suicidal and emotional I was back then, I would be on here telling u that CD is greater than Appetite.

Thing is, in 2009 I am in a good place mentally/emotionally and I am a fairly happy person and CD let's face it, is pretty fucking depressing and heavy............

2002 it would've been the greatest album of all time for me, 2009 it is good but I have to be in certain moods to listen to it.

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« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2009, 05:43:02 AM »

There are at least as many " best albums of recent times!!" as there are dedicated  fan communities.
Just because world isn't in it's collective knees sucking Axl's cock after hearing CD doesn't necessarily mean there is some colossal flaw in the universe.
You found album you love, woohoo! Why not settle just enjoying it instead of wondering what it is in your DNA that makes you and your taste in music so vastly superior to the non-Axl loving parts of the universe who " just don't get it"?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 05:44:46 AM by LeftToDecay » Logged

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« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2009, 08:29:26 AM »

green day promoted their album with videos, in store signings, special shows, etc. Axl did not. Promotion, if done right, can go a long way. Also, I don't think anyone outside of the GN'R message board would ever consider it to be one of the greatest rock albums of all time, not to start shit or anything, but most people seem to think it is "alright" to "pretty good".

Subjectively, no one can consider it "alright to pretty good". No way. The songs are on a level that no other bands out there today puts out, and the production is flawless and so is the band. It's not possible that the GN'R message board community can deem it to be an amazing record and the rest of the world does not. Look at Rolling Stone's review. It was on point, and so were a lot of other reviews. The bias in the media can't explain it all and neither can the lack of promotion. It' something else.

not everyone out side GnR message boards feel that way

and unfortunately, people's opinion's of the artists they consider purchasing goes along way towards whether they wil purchase their material and let's face it, the general publics opinion of axl is pretty fucking low
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« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2009, 08:57:29 AM »

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Maybe we just have to accept that GNR are not too popular anymore?
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« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2009, 10:26:20 AM »

I dont think that it really has anything to do with popularity. Theyre classics get played on the radio all over the world today as much as at any period in time. I feel that the ball was dropped by everybody ( label, management , the band) regarding CD. Maybe they felt the hype alone would sell records which is kind of reckless. They shouldve had a monumental campaign in place for the release of this long awaited album. Tours, appearances on talk shows, interviews, commercials, radio tours etc., shouldve been planned ahead of time. It seems like everything was rushed without any real plan in place. Which is unfortunate. I feel for all the players who spent years giving there hearts and souls working on this album.
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« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2009, 10:35:41 AM »

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I dont think that it really has anything to do with popularity. Theyre classics get played on the radio all over the world today as much as at any period in time. I feel that the ball was dropped by everybody ( label, management , the band) regarding CD. Maybe they felt the hype alone would sell records which is kind of reckless. They shouldve had a monumental campaign in place for the release of this long awaited album. Tours, appearances on talk shows, interviews, commercials, radio tours etc., shouldve been planned ahead of time. It seems like everything was rushed without any real plan in place. Which is unfortunate. I feel for all the players who spent years giving there hearts and souls working on this album.


Maybe the theory of Axl being forced to release it is correct and as a result Axl chose not to work on it.  Hell, i dont really know anymore.  It just seems like such an opportunity for Axl to make a comeback was wasted.  Even if he started promoting it now, i still think its too late.  Although it did take a while for AFD to take off so there still is hope for Axl. 
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« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2009, 11:11:25 AM »

A couple of points I'd like to mention.

1. If Axl as current G&R leader retired and never worked on CD would all G&R fans still be supportive?

2. After the release of CD many fans appreciated it and many dismissed it.

3. In the hyperbole of the press who most of them gave bad reviews (accept for Fricke of Rolling Stone who gave CD a great review. The so-called rumors/facts of the record company, management, videos, releases and air play could it be that Axl just wanted to complete his contractual obligation of delivering a cd and that was it?

In the end of all this if you were an artist and put out a fantastic CD for your fans and not knowingly to your fans started reading blog sites to see if you are still well respected to go out and tour the cd, do you think that artist would go out and do so when he is reading 50/50 percent of support and non-support. Axl already has money. He can retire and enjoy his private life and it wouldn't be too much of a concern to him to get back in the ring when his fans are dismissing him. Axl really doesn't care about the press or if so-and-so didn't do their job. His main concern is his MUSE. The MUSE is his fans. Why is he going to bother doing a tour if most of his fans are dismissing Chinese Democracy? The real fact here is to compare the old band with this new band really doesn't hold any water.  The true reality of this is even back in the days of Appetite if that line up had any other singer----no one would ever have heard or known about a band called Guns & Roses. Let's face it. Lead guitarists; bass players; drummers are a dime a dozen as far as being very good to play in a professional band. But a front man-singer who has the voice; right look; attitude and moves all in one package?Huh Good luck finding someone like that. You'd have a better chance stealing a space shuttle and flying to the moon!!!!
I've got a feeling that I know what Axl must be going through. Yeah everyone has a opinion about him that he is this or he is that. Well all the great front men have to deal with that: Jim Morrison; Elvis; Ozzy.......but it's really disheartening when a singer has to find out that his fans are bitching and complaining about 'what the singer is doing'.  Perhaps if Axl had the right musicians in the band that gave him the support and friendship he might be touring despite of what Joe Hollywood and the clan is pressing about. No singer likes to get up on stage without having the band support him regardless if the singer might be hard to work with. Being a great singer/front man is the hardest position in a rock & roll band. It takes guts. Talent. And above all team support from his band mates and true fans who are interested in that artists work.  beer
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« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2009, 11:32:34 AM »

A couple of points I'd like to mention.

1. If Axl as current G&R leader retired and never worked on CD would all G&R fans still be supportive?

2. After the release of CD many fans appreciated it and many dismissed it.

3. In the hyperbole of the press who most of them gave bad reviews (accept for Fricke of Rolling Stone who gave CD a great review. The so-called rumors/facts of the record company, management, videos, releases and air play could it be that Axl just wanted to complete his contractual obligation of delivering a cd and that was it?

In the end of all this if you were an artist and put out a fantastic CD for your fans and not knowingly to your fans started reading blog sites to see if you are still well respected to go out and tour the cd, do you think that artist would go out and do so when he is reading 50/50 percent of support and non-support. Axl already has money. He can retire and enjoy his private life and it wouldn't be too much of a concern to him to get back in the ring when his fans are dismissing him. Axl really doesn't care about the press or if so-and-so didn't do their job. His main concern is his MUSE. The MUSE is his fans. Why is he going to bother doing a tour if most of his fans are dismissing Chinese Democracy? The real fact here is to compare the old band with this new band really doesn't hold any water.  The true reality of this is even back in the days of Appetite if that line up had any other singer----no one would ever have heard or known about a band called Guns & Roses. Let's face it. Lead guitarists; bass players; drummers are a dime a dozen as far as being very good to play in a professional band. But a front man-singer who has the voice; right look; attitude and moves all in one package?Huh Good luck finding someone like that. You'd have a better chance stealing a space shuttle and flying to the moon!!!!
I've got a feeling that I know what Axl must be going through. Yeah everyone has a opinion about him that he is this or he is that. Well all the great front men have to deal with that: Jim Morrison; Elvis; Ozzy.......but it's really disheartening when a singer has to find out that his fans are bitching and complaining about 'what the singer is doing'.  Perhaps if Axl had the right musicians in the band that gave him the support and friendship he might be touring despite of what Joe Hollywood and the clan is pressing about. No singer likes to get up on stage without having the band support him regardless if the singer might be hard to work with. Being a great singer/front man is the hardest position in a rock & roll band. It takes guts. Talent. And above all team support from his band mates and true fans who are interested in that artists work.  beer

I respectfully must disagree. Let me start with the guitarist bassist and drummers being a dime a dozen thing: While it may be true that musicians are a dime a dozen, As a singer in a band in a band I can say that you have to find the right combination of players to make it work. You cant just throw any proffesional musician with a great singer and expect it to work. If it were that easy everybody would be huge.
Second point: I'd like to believe that Axl isnt as weak minded as you make him out to be. Do you really think that our support is the reason he's not out there doing things? Im sure there are other factors that have held him back from doing things. As an artist, If I worked hard on something for 15 years there would be nothing that would stop me from giving my art the proper release it deserved. Unless other factors beyond his control are to blame. If he cant deal with criticism or negative posts as your insinuating then hes in the wrong industry.
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« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2009, 11:33:34 AM »

1. The band did zero promotion
2. No new single is being sent to stations
3. 500,000 copies of a CD in the late 00s isn't bad from a rock band. How many copies did the last Pearl Jam/Pumpkins/NIN album sell?
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« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2009, 11:40:17 AM »

Lack of promotion for sure

or

Maybe we as fans are too positive about the whole thing and we are blind to see/hear the album actually sucks? (I'm not saying it sucks, i just say maybe we as fans are not in a good position to judge this album correctly?)



It's one of the 2 people. I personally hope it's the lack of promotion and the release of singles/videos and tour.
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« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2009, 11:50:30 AM »

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Let's face it. Lead guitarists; bass players; drummers are a dime a dozen as far as being very good to play in a professional band. But a front man-singer who has the voice; right look; attitude and moves all in one package?

All components of a band are equally important.  You cant say Axl would have been big without them or vice versa.
But singers are tough to find.  (good ones)
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« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2009, 11:57:52 AM »

Axl not being out there doing promotion hurt the album. People wanted/needed to see Axl again and he didnt deliver on that front.

But being he seems content on doing nothing then why should we care? If you enjoy the album then that is all that matters.

We are fans of a band that does everything backwards/nothing at all.

Just enjoy the music and any type of words that come from Axls mouth. Its not going to be how we ALL thought it was going to be.
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« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2009, 12:42:22 PM »

For me, Axl's touring and videos in the past have uplifted GNR songs further into rock n' roll immortality.
I am not a fan of CD as many here are, but I felt that it had potential if Axl and GNR had gotten behind them and pushed them, as was done for AFD and UYI.
It seems that beginning with TSI, Axl was not comfortable resorting to smaller venues to tour extensively. Maybe it is hard to go from doing stadiums full time to arenas.

The failure to promoted CD for whatever reasons, will lead to many speculations that only damage his reputation and ability to produce more music, as is evident by his statements of uncertainty over his long term musical goals.

The ex-members will be looking more and more justified in comparison. This will end up being a footnote in GNR lore and not a chapter in its history, which is what we were all pining for. The reunion rumors will never go away either and will be stronger because of this.

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« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2009, 12:50:25 PM »

It all comes down to 15 years of nothing.  We live in a society that if you're not in the news all of the time then you're as good as gone.  A lot of things change in 15 years.  I would bet that a large number of the old fans, now in their mid 30s, have changed their listening habits.  A lot of the peoplethat I used to hang with no listen to country.  Personally speaking, there was a period in which I baely listened to GnR because you can only listen to the same songs for so many years.

Axl can sit around and blame Slash, the record label, Azoff, or whoever but it all comes back on him.  He did this to himself.
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« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2009, 12:57:58 PM »

I am not a fan of CD as many here are

And yet you hang around for some weird reason....




Axl can sit around and blame Slash, the record label, Azoff, or whoever but it all comes back on him.  He did this to himself.

He doesn't play the game like everybody else, does things on his own terms.


A lot of artists do stuff and think "why do I have to do this shit?" just to sell more albums.




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« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2009, 01:02:50 PM »

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He doesn't play the game like everybody else, does things on his own terms.

BS. He played the same "game" back in the day. Enough with he does things on his own terms. That is the most overated/over used comment around here.

He has done the videos, press, appearances,etc in the past. You dont become the worlds biggest band solely on the music alone. You have to put in the work outside of the music.

Axl chooses not to play the game now...for whatever reason...who truly knows....but not because everyone else does it.

Your right in that he does things on his terms, but so do all other mutimillion dollar celebrities/rock stars.
 That is the luxury they have all created for themselves. But dont insult us by saying he on some kind of integrity protest.

It would be nice for Axl to do an interview like this....stuff like this would go along way in the whole CD saga
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpbJBXF66Gc&feature=related
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 01:17:27 PM by younggunner » Logged

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