Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Slash Shrugs Off Axl Rose's Latest Tirade, While In Vegas

Posted by Doug Elfman
Sunday, Mar. 15, 2009 at 02:29 AM

Ex-GNR guitarist Slash was in Las Vegas Saturday night to see Terry Fator?s new show at the Mirage. I asked Slash if he heard about Axl Rose?s latest tirade ? Rose calling Slash a ?cancer? and saying he?d never reunite with Slash.

?Ah, yeah,? Slash told me. ?But you know, it?s one of those things with him. It doesn?t really affect me at all. At this point, it?s starting to become a little bit ? he?s just sort of like ? whatever.?

Slash couldn?t seem to find the right words, because he didn?t seem to care, I think. He looked like he was shrugging a bit. I lit Slash?s cigarette and told him he looked unfazed.

?It?s been a long time,? Slash said. ?The fact that he has anything to say at all ? it?s like, whatever dude. It doesn?t really matter.?

Right after Slash said this, I asked him what else he would be doing in Vegas this weekend. Just then, his wife, Perla Hudson, walked up, heard my question and responded:

?We?re gonna go have sex! All kinds of sex. Loving sex. The kind of sex parents don?t get to have at home ? when they go to Vegas.?

In other words, between Axl and his wife, Slash seemed pretty clear about which one was going to get a rise out of him.

Slash is working on a solo album, reportedly with guest vocals from Ozzy Osbourne, Fergie and other singers. Or as Hudson told me: ?He can?t mention it, but it?s superstar singers. It?s on the DL.?

http://www.lvrj.com/blogs/vegasvoice/Slash_Shrugs_Off_Axl_Roses_Latest_Tirade_While_In_Vegas.html

He handled that well.  Perla is pretty cool.   : ok:

These "superstars" are what is getting my attention.

very nice the way he handled it.

I mean he is a cancer but yet every member of the former GNR and everybody else in the world still want to work or be in a band with him. it just doesn't add up.

Slash knows very well how to treat with the people for being always "The Super Cool" And the average people let Slash to cheat them portray as the good guy. I think this is the classical Slash behavior.

He has been talking about Axl for the past 12 years. The idea that Slash is the cool guy, because Axl chose to share his views a few times is beyond me.

I agree with you what I say is that lots of people believe in the hypocritical face of Slash. The few times Axl speaks he speaks from heart and many people doesn?t understand the honestity.

Ha, pretty cool he doesn't care at all what Axl had to say. Sums up alot really.
I think so much time has passed he's just moved on and become more mature about the whole thing.

Im really not trying to take sides on this cause I love them both BUT:

Just from an outsider point of view, I just think Axl used a poor word choice calling Slash a cancer.

I mean when u take the perception of the outside world:

everybody quit Axl and don't want to work with him

Slash has a band with 2 other members of GNR, Steven is still Slash's friend and Izzy collaborated with them and the entire music world wants to collaborate with Slash


I am just saying, the evidence from now doesn't hold with what Axl said.

Maybe Slash WAS a cancer back in 96 but he certainly isn't viewed that way by the general public.

Maybe he is to Axl.

Axl's obviously talking about his feelings, not about how the general public feels about Slash.


Maybe you have somebody in your life that you realize you're better off without, while everybody else thinks that person is awesome.





/jarmo

especially shooter jennings

let's not forget scott weiland, or rod jackson, or some other singers that have worked proffesionally with him for some time  ;)

Right or wrong, Slash will always be be viewed better in the court of public opinion, that ship sailed a long time ago.

Personally, I think there's plenty of blame to go around - I mean c'mon, how many lies has Slash been caught in and how many people have left GNR of their own accord?

For the most part, those 2 points are very telling...

The personal back and forth has become white noise to me, I just try to enjoy the music they've made both together and apart and leave it that...

Or maybe you (Axl) keep telling yourself that to justify your actions but deep down you wished it worked out.  None of us know for sure how Axl or Slash really feel.  I still go back the whole divorced couple thing.  Slash is that hot wife you got sick of fucking, but you don't want anyone else fucking her.  To make yourself feel better you say she put on some weight and is a whore, but deep down you know she was the best fuck you ever had and will always miss her.

I don't know about how many lies Slash has been caught in, but the following left on their own accord:

Robin Finck
Slash
Duff
Izzy
Buckethead
Paul Huge

Fired:
Gilby
Matt
Traci Guns

I was saying more what Falcon better articulated.


I know Axl views him that way and like I said, I am not saying Axl is wrong by any means cause I am not involved and have no idea.

My point was to the public opinion thing, where everyone wants to work with Slash, wherea they all left Axl, so it makes the Axl comment not come off well, cause the perception shows Slash is anything but.

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:  NOW THAT's a fucking analogy! 

HA!!!!!!!!  D, I knew you would love that one!

Not sure "lies" in the plural form was the best choice of words, he obviously "remembers" things differently at different times - fair enough?

That said..

He flat out lied to the entire world on Camp Freddy Radio about visiting Axl's house, there's no ifs ands or buts about that one.

Guilty as charged.

Like I said above, the rhetoric is of zero interest to me anymore.  

Both are what they are - expect nothing and take no personal stock in either.

Enjoy the tunes and leave it at that...

Yeah but I can't blame Slash for lying about that under the circumstances cause the things axl said he said could've destroyed his band.


I agree though, I really try to not take sides and just enjoy them both.

And yes, u are dead on Jarmo. there are a few people who are very cancerous to me but aren't bad people and others like them.

Oh please.

Axl explained his feelings quite recently.




/jarmo

2 years ago he said he loved Slash, so give it up.  He says those things because he still cares for him.  If he didn't, he wouldn't waste time talking about him.  That is how it works Jarmo.  Axl is emotional and changes his mind... a lot.  He also killed Izzy back in the day for leaving GNR, now he loves him again.  He called Sorum an Albatross, then had drinks with him till 6:00 am in New York a couple years back.

I don't buy that.

Slash should have never put himself in that in that position and Axl should have never
spoke of it publicly.

Slash fucked up royally and lied about it, Axl aired the dirty laundry to "destroy" Slash's band.

A lose/lose no matter how ya cut it.

Slash seems almost a little scared of Axl, he never ever confronts Axl's ramblings head on. That could just be his style, but god knows if someone was calling me a cancer and attacking my integrity and saying id deliberately sabotaged the biggest band in the world I'd be taking that person to task.....unless it's essentially true??

That said nearly every former band member and employee appear to concur with Slash's version of events, and forgive me but im not a conspiracy nut , so I'll believe the perceptions of 90% of the people that actually lived and witnessed these events.

I personally believe that the Axl / Slash things is much more about 2 people interpreting the same set of events from there own perspective and has little to do with one guy or the other 'lying' and playing games in some huge conspiracy.

Slash seems to be a guy open to ahem...massaging the truth to either avoid public scrutiny or avoid conflict, and Axl seems to genuinely believe his opinions and words, but perhaps is open to delusional thinking.

Thats my take anyway

Didn't you say you loved him in what -- '06?
No. I said "loved," as in past tense. It was a misquote by a writer I mistook as a fan.

From the most recent interview.

Loved, as in it could mean 1985!

You just choose to see what you want in his interviews.



/jarmo

/jarmo
[/quote]

2 years ago he said he loved Slash, so give it up.  He says those things because he still cares for him.  If he didn't, he wouldn't waste time talking about him.  That is how it works Jarmo.  Axl is emotional and changes his mind... a lot.  He also killed Izzy back in the day for leaving GNR, now he loves him again.  He called Sorum an Albatross, then had drinks with him till 6:00 am in New York a couple years back.
[/quote]



Exactly

It's clear to any emotionally aware person the feelings behind the words, just as Izzy was mercilessly slagged by Axl between 1992 - 2005 (or thereabouts) it's Axl's way.
Remember Izzy eventually retaliated in a few interviews and his words were far more cutting than the things Slash has said.

Well can't blame you guys for trying.....  :hihi:



/jarmo

No, Slash is very media savvy.

He knows he has won in the court of public opinion, so Slash played it perfectly taking the high road.

Maybe Del is misquoting him here, oh, I forgot, its always someone else slipping up making the mistake.  Axl never makes a mistake.  So for 2 years we thought he loved him, then he clarifies it recently, I guess he didn't mind us thinking he loved him for 2 years.  Think what you want, but Axl's inner most feelings probably don't get revealed often.

Axl's opinion hasn't changed. It's been the same for a long time. You just refuse to see it.


Yes, Axl has to clarify a lot of shit because people read what he says and then "translate" it to fit their own fantasies.





/jarmo

Trying what exactly??

Im offering my perceptions on a fallout between 2 people, one says he still loves the other, the 2nd says he 'loved' the first.

Jarmo, Jarmo, Jarmo, that interview was a snapshot in the life of W. Axl Rose.  Its not reflective of Axl's total body of work and his feelings after that interview are subject to change.  On that day he was very hateful and veangefull to Slash.  But at other times he had been very complimentary of Slash's playing and how he had badass riffs back in 1996, yet he bashed his playing in the last interview saying none of it was inspired and stuff like that.  He changes his tune some.  That is fine.  There was a time Axl was very pissed at Buckethead, well, no longer.

To prove your point that they love each other?





Only if you've got a selective mind.

Ok. Let me get this straight. The fact that Axl thought Slash did some nice things in 1996 and in 2008-9 he says he thinks Slash is boring, is "changing his tune"? He's not even talking about the same time! Not even the same fucking millennium.


Are you serious?

Axl: "the less anyone heard of him or his supporters, the better."

I guess that refers to you?




/jarmo

SG, stop deluding yourself with stupid thoughts.

I support Axl.  I buy merchandise, CD, and fly around the country to see his shows with GNR.  I also support Slash.  I didn't say Axl loved Slash, I said YOU don't know exactly how he feels and a soft ball interview with Del James doesn't change that he didn't reveal everything to us.  Hell, he didn't even tell us why he hates Slash now.  All I said is he is cool with Izzy and Sorum now, and he used to freaking kill those guys.  He claims he showed interest in Fall to Pieces back in the day....  Well, that tells me he liked Fall to Pieces, which was on VR's 2004 album (I mean the music, not Weiland's voice or lyrics).  Or what about him dismissing the Snakepit stuff, then later regretting dismissing it because he wanted to work with some of it.  He changes his mind.  He is blowing of steam.  Eddie Van Halen said things much worse about David Lee Roth and look what happened.  I don't want a reunion, but we don't know the whole story.  Period.   

Sorum? Are you serious?

They were at the same party!

So you have two options:
Get Matt Sorum kicked out -> headlines and Matt milking the incident for all it's worth.
Do nothing -> have GN'R fans over analyze the incident three years later.




You're really struggling.

Showing interest in working on a song in the mid-90s doesn't mean you like the end result in 2004 recorded by a different band.

Besides, Axl's the guy who pushed Slash. Maybe he saw some potential in those riffs that could've become a GN'R song eventually.


He was ready to work on the material and do a few of the songs, but that wasn't good enough for Slash so he recorded it on his own as Snakepit.



Yeah, you definitely don't know the full story and you don't seem too interested in it either since you keep looking for "clues".....



/jarmo

Good points, but you leave out Izzy every time, don't know why...

I am just saying, if you ever get a divorce and you say you hate your wife, remember, there was a reason you married her ass to begin with Jarmo.  Heck he could have said those things because he was angry at that moment with Slash, or maybe he is bitter and wanted to hurt Slash's feelings with those comments.  There is always a motive.  I am still waiting on the bombshell to drop about why he hates Slash anyway.

Or from the liver, which is the case here. :P

I hate how it's turned it to a Axl vs Slash thing.

No doubt Axl "love" the artist that created some great guitarwork,-
- but "what I thought was beautyfull don't leave inside you anymore" might be more close to the truth now :peace:

If we all knew the "full story" then we wouldn't need to have all these interviews and read books about went down.  There is still a big hazy cloud about how everything all went down.  You have 4 or 5 guys that say one thing and Axl that says another.

He never wrote a book and didn't go out of his way to try to be the good guy while pointing fingers.

Axl and Izzy also shared a different bond than what the rest of the band had. They were friends before GN'R.





/jarmo

Izzy publically said stuff much, much worse than what Slash said.  Oh well, since he didn't "act nice" its okay.  Jarmo, I don't want to argue. We agree to disagree.  I like how our debates don't get personal.  HA.   : ok:

What Izzy said sure as hell didn't get the same media attention as Slash traveling around the world talking shit about Axl for years and years.




/jarmo

Because nobody cared, we were in the middle of the Grunge Invasion.... 

back in the day it may have been in slash's mind and he's always spoe his mind

apparantly, axl's not on slash's mind now but it sure seems like slash has been on axl's the last 12 years or so

I would never even dream of calling that person a "cancer".  Especially 10 years later.  I'd be afraid I'd appear as some sort of obsessed person.  I mean, come on, 13 years later....kind of time to get a grip on things. 

I'm not so sure it's about being "media savvy" or "court of public opinion".  Maybe it just comes down to not feeling the need to respond.  If he felt compelled to respond to the whole thing, he could have put out a "statement" almost at once.  He didn't.  I'm sure most of us were waiting for some backlash almost immediately.  Didn't happen.  Took until now because some interviewer brought it up. Probably because he doesn't really care.  Deep down, maybe he does really care. However, if it were me, I wouldn't give much credence to the sort of statement that was made. 

I'm sorry for anyone whose base opinion doesn't change through the years - personally, I think that time and experience makes one's opinions change.  Staying in one mindset and opinion through the years makes one "set in their ways".

Axl doesn't clarify anything.  You're right, though..... people will translate things to fit their own fantasies, no matter what that may be. 

Slash is right, who cares what grudge Axl has, at this point, in 2009 to talk about shit that happened almost 20 years ago is dumb, so whatever describes it pretty well.

Slash always think about Axl and GNR and always is hoping reunion. The matter is that he likes to portrait as the "good boy" and he knows how to say to cheat the fans. Personally, although I really loved AFD lineup, I began to loss credibility for Slash back in the beginning of the 90?s.

Good for you. So you think lying is ok and you think changing your story to fit your own agenda is fair?



He cared enough to write a book about it and then go out to promote it.






/jarmo

I don't think Slash was thinking that Axl was ever gonna call "bullshit" on the last 20 years either, I think Axl has the right to clear the air, regardless of it's significance today.  I would like to say that at least it's coming straight from the horses mouth, I myself appreciate that. How long have people wished to here Axl's side? How long have all of you wish for this moment over the last how many years?

Jarmo, the book isn't about Axl Rose and his hate for him......  Jeez...

When Slash basically says "I love Axl, but Axl is just, you know Axl" in interviews, I think it's pretty obvious what he's trying to suggest.

i think there all full of shit tbh.

Neither like each other. They both have things to prove. They both wanna make music and money.

They are human beings, simple as that. The same rules apply.

The only difference is, they have alot of people putting pressure on them to work together again and alot of people making up their own views and bias from things they have said.

The real way it is. No one will ever know.

The way you should figure it out. Its clear they dont wanna work together. If they do reconcile, im sure we will all be the first to read about it.

Lets get over it guys im tired of the

"Axl and new guns are better than old"

and "Slash is amazing, a true guitar legend, hes not a bad guy. He doesnt go onstage late"


Its the same shit over and over and over.

He said he wrote it to "set the record straight" regarding GN'R.

Axl was, and still is, a big part of GN'R.


It's basically his version of how he wants us to remember that era of GN'R.





/jarmo

His feud with Axl is only PART of the book.  If Axl is so happy now, he has no need to stoop down the the liar Slash's level does he. 

I wish slash supporters would take that same advice.

Didn't you understand what I said?

A lot of people bought the book to read about GN'R (that includes Axl, he's in GN'R).





Not stooping down to any level. He's just telling us what's on his mind.


I know, it's upsetting because only Slash should be allowed to talk about Axl and GN'R.




/jarmo

You are right Jarmo... Please reference all these attacks on GNR and Axl that you have stored up so I can read all his cancerous comments... While you are at it, you can copy in the following but not limited to:

Izzy
Duff
Matt
Adler
Lars
Zakk Wylde
James Hetfield
Dave Navarro
Gilby
Traci Guns
Vince Neil
Nikki Sixx

That about sums it up.

It makes for good rock n roll theatre but even that aspect of it has ran it's course for me.

You just don't fucking get it.

If Axl thinks Slash is like a cancer to him personally, it's his fucking opinion. Get it?

You weren't there when shit went down beginning in the 1980s when they first started working together.


Only a fool would assume that we know every single detail of what happened and that everything is in print for all to see.

I guess you think Axl is basing his opinion on Slash by reading articles online? The guy was in a band with him for something like 11 years. I think he knows more about Slash than you and I!


You might think Slash is the most wonderful thing that has happened in your life. That's your opinion.


So please stop with the stupid desperate attempts to find all this "proof" to prove your point.




/jarmo

You just made my point for me.  I said I didn't want to argue about this, you kept doing it.  Neither are innocent, and you, nor I know what all went down.  Thanks for agreeing with me.....FINALLY!

Of course you don't wanna argue because you're going on and on about how much Axl cares for Slash.

You don't want your illusions to be shattered.

That's why you keep going on and on about it.

"But he said he loved Slash!" and shit like that.




/jarmo

I just think that it's funny that for the past 10 years, Slash had NO problem at all talking shit about Axl, but now that Axl ripped him a new asshole (and rightfully so), that all of a sudden Slash is backing down.

Guilty conscience, Slash?  :hihi:

I don't think he ever said anything to the level that Axl said about him.  Infact, I would love to see these quotes from all these interviews, I think you will have a tough time compiling anything more than, "he went on stage late", "we rehearsed late, when he was ready" "We didn't see eye to eye on the direction of the band" etc, etc.....

I read Slash's book and I still don't see anything he said that was really all that bad about Axl to be honest. Hell he is mostly complimentary

Its like some don't think Axl did any wrong whatsoever and that he is perfect and just an average normal guy.

Kind of like when Slash lied about going to Axl's house, right?

He made Axl look like a dick over that when SLASH was the one that lied only to admit it years later.

Slash is a master manipulator. He knows how to work the media - and he has made Axl unfairly look like the bad guy this entire time.

Spot on man!  I read Slash's book and he rarely bashes Axl at all.  The book is about FAR more than Slash's view on GNR.  It is about his whole life which obviously involves GNR.  I have read many Slash interviews and I have rarely seen him bash Axl.  I also see no issue in a guy promoting a book.  Its not like he promoted it just to speak about Axl.  I actually think its great that he is a bigger person and doesn't comment much on this kinda thing.  Of course he is gonna give answers when asked, just like Axl does. 

But yeah, it was a great answer from Slash.  Its nice to see he has moved on and is enjoying fucking his wife instead of organising interviews to call people cancer! haha

No, I don't.  I'm saying that when it comes to life, people evolve and our opinions change through the years, based on experience and the healing that sometimes comes with time and reflection on things.  How a person felt about something, say 10 years ago or 5 years ago, and what that person said about it might be totally different than today.  It doesn't mean someone's lying or changing a story to fit one's own agenda.  But, oh yeah, we're talking about Slash here who does those things all the time, I guess. 

I thought this said it pretty well:
   

That's probably where the truth lies, right there.   

Does anyone know why Axl actually hates Slash SO much???  I read Slash's book and he didn't bash Axl in it, far from it.  He simply constructed a few points that led to the break up, such as the material he had that Axl was apparently reluctant to work on.

But, i thought one of the main reason's why Slash quit was because of the appointment of Tobias.  Up until then, Slash always had the main say in who the rhythm guitarist was, but Tobias was appointed without Slash knowing and later re recorded Slash's parts on Sympathy for the devil. 

But Slash still doesn't hate Axl or ever claimed to.  So why does Axl hate him so much???

He's lied about recent events. Like when he claimed he didn't go to Axl's house a few years ago. It was a recent event then, not something he had years and years to think about

How does that fall under healing?




You don't have to call somebody a name in order to insult somebody.


For example: I could write a book about how things happened without saying a negative word about anybody else and the others who were part of the events can feel insulted because the book isn't truthful.

Especially if I used my book to portray myself as the poor victim in the public's eyes.





/jarmo

Jarmo, so you do or you don't have a quote, because right now you are really reaching...  So one guy is insulted and wasn't called a name, another guy is like "whatever" and he was called a cancer....

You said it right there.  According to Axl, he worked very hard on Slash's material and Slash wasn't willing to work on it to the same level.   Many people, apparently including you, are under the impression that Axl refused to work on Slash's material and that was that, which, according to Axl (the person in question here), is the exact opposite of the truth.

The book is filled with things like that. Not to mention all the Jetboy accusation stuff (no idea if that stuff was true either...)  At one point Slash even pretty much accused Axl of driving him to the point of suicide.

Grounds for hatred?  I don't know.  Axl might hate Slash, I have no idea, but he never said that he did, so I'm not going to start suggesting that he did.  There are plenty of people I know (mostly democrats from hollywood) that are essentially cancers to the world, but I don't hate them.

How many times can I repeat this so you Slash fans get it? What fucking quote?

Didn't I just tell you quite recently that not everything is available online for you to disregard?



If you lie about the history of a band to make yourself seem cooler, don't be surprised if the others aren't happy about it.


Are you acting or are you really that confused?

The guy who's "whatever" has spent YEARS talking about Axl and wrote a BOOK dealing with the subject.

Then his attitude changes once Axl tells his side of the story. What a funny coincidence.



Who's reaching? You are.

"He called Slash a cancer but Slash never said a bad word about him  :crying: ".

 ::)


The general idea is that Slash left because Axl didn't want to work on his songs.

Is that the truth? No, it's the way Slash wants you to think it happened.

Even Marc Canter says it didn't go down like that!

So all these years Axl gets all the blame.

And now you want a fucking quote to see why Axl doesn't like Slash? Are you fucking serious?



So I guess you can only dislike people when there's some kind of proof of it online? You can't dislike a person unless you can Google for a quote?

Does that apply to everybody in your life? Maybe there's a person in your life you don't get along with. Can we Google him/her to see that your dislike is legit? Otherwise we'll just have to assume your dislike isn't fair!



/jarmo

this is hilarious...Jarmo is outta quotes?
I gotta take a screenshot!

What's hilarious is the Slash fans not understanding the simple fact that not everything can be found by using Google. Therefore Axl should not hate Slash!

 :rofl:





Here's a quote: Slash has lied about nearly everything and anything to nearly everyone and anyone. It's who he is. It's what he does.

Axl in 2002.



/jarmo

Lets just ignore reality.   Axl LOVES Slash  :love:   They are two peas in a pod.

 :hihi:  Somehow, that's not a very convincing quote when it's Axl saying that Slash lies all the time.  I'm not interested in arguing with you or anyone else in regard to that because it's old and been done many times here, so that's not my point.  I just found some humor in it, that's all.     

How is it funny? We know slash lies, it's been pointed out many many times.

If people are just obsessed with quotes, and not interested in trying to understand anything, there's plenty of random quotes I can post.


It seems like in order to dislike a person, there needs to be quotes that are public knowledge!

 :rofl:




/jarmo

There you go.  In reality, they probably really are - two peas in a pod.  Like someone else said, they're probably really both full of shit, for all we know.  

No need to sound defensive.  I know that's been pointed out many many times.  I, for one, am not interested in seeing quotes and rehashing the same old argument.   

Geez - a person can't even laugh around here sometimes without people getting their underwear all in a bunch.   I just thought it was funny that someone wanted proof and quotes of Slash's lying (which I'm sure there are many things that can be posted to try to make a point and we've gone that route before) and the quote that was posted was Axl saying he lies, which, oh never mind.....   

Here's another quote since Smoking Guns insists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfni6ZLRkZI

Slash: "What was it that you (Axl) broke the real band up for?"


Here's another interesting one where it's all Axl's fault: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2s4B8t0h-k

The last minute.





/jarmo

Slash barely even gave what you could call a response to this and it results in a 5 page thread. Wow, people have really bought into the soap opera aspect of this. To steal someone else's quote, it's kind of run its course for me.

I think that more people need to take a good long hard look at this.

I believe credit for the "full of shit" line goes to mrlee... :yes:

 

Jarmo, friend and fellow Gunner....  I am sorry I ruffled your feathers,  : ok:, I am not pro Slash or Pro Axl in this, I am just being objective that Axl does have some emotional paranoia like behaviors and since he has no current real enemies at the time, it seems he has chosen to go after Slash harder now than ever.  Since about 2005 or so I think Slash has been very complimentary about Axl, so this isn't a "new" thing, he has been this way for about 4 years.  Who cares if Slash fibbed years ago or not... Its not like he beat up his girlfriend or anything...

You didn't.

I just can't seem to get through to you.

Just to make it short for you: You don't need quotes in order to dislike people.  : ok:



/jarmo

I agree!   : ok:

Smoking Guns v. Jarmo = hands down best argument i've seen on here in the last 6 years!

I agree with smoking guns in saying that we really need to see what's in that hazy cloud before we can make obejctive judgements about the whole thing

Jarmo, would u at least agree, that Axl had a little bit of fault in this?

I mean why should he be the sole person to decide what music to do etc?

See what I am saying? Like why does everything have to be up to Axl's liking before it can be done? Slash and CO weren't big on a few of Axl's songs but did them anyway and did them well.

so why couldn't Axl throw Slash a bone and do some songs his way?

I have always maintained sort of a 50-50 fault with this.

Slash does lie, but come on, Axl isn't exactly George Washington either.

I think everybody lies in life, we are only human!  And none of us will ever know wheter Axl wouldnt work on material or wheter Slash wouldnt.  Thats between them.  But I don't see any issue in releasing a book about your life and putting forth some views you have on a number of subjects (most of these weren't about Axl). 

The fact is, I have seen more ex gunners etc etc, agree with Slash's version of events.  And they were all there.

Afraid so.

The problem I have with these arguments on this board is that some people are either it was all Axls fault or it was all Slash's fault. When in life in any situation is it just one persons fault? They arent in a band anymore, we have the great music so who gives a fuck now?

What a load of bollocks this all is

Any reasonable person can see that both sides has failings.

Slash is clearly slight of hand, Axl is clearly delusional.

Best post since the all encompassing "they're both full of shit". :yes:

That sounds like Velvet Revolver with Scott!  :hihi:


Axl wasn't the only one deciding. He just didn't want to do all the Snakepit songs.




He did, Slash wasn't happy and took all the songs to go do Snakepit.

Slash wanted to be the one deciding.




That's just a comfortable way for some of you to accept that your idol isn't as cool as his image.

It's easier to come to grips with it when you can blame Axl too.





/jarmo

Sigh, it goes on.



The sooner we can weed out the extremist nutbag cult weirdo element on both sides that enable this shite .....the better off we can all be, and get back to being fans of the music. (that doesnt mean being unable to criticise rationally)

This Mum V Dad thing is crap, and those that enable  by saying things like 'axlites' 'slash fans' etc etc should grow up get a life, and in the immortal words...' live your life'.

Its funny, people talk about world peace ,yet we have a bunch of internet dorks getting theyre panties caught up in a bunch cos they feel theyre rock superhero is infallible compared to the other guys wet dream hero.

Lecture over :)

The anaology Ive used before is:

Brian May and Axl disagree 100% on theyre stories on what happened with catcher.
Does this make either guy a liar???

Perhaps yes.

MUCH more likely its 2 people with differing versions of events based on theyre PERCEPTIONS.

Most rational people with no ideological barrow to push would conclude the same with Axl n Slash.

That's just a comfortable way for some of you to accept that your idol isn't as cool as his image.

It's easier to come to grips with it when you can blame Axl too.






/jarmo

[/quote]




Are you on drugs???

Axl CLEARLY isnt an angel and clearly can be very ,very difficult to get along with, so clearly according to most ex members (who funnily enough all concur), a large proportion of bands that toured with GNR in theyre heydey, all of Axl's notable GF's, ex managers Axl was at least equally partly to blame for oh so many things.

But perhaps It's all a MASSIVE conspiracy

Perhaps IZZY lied too??
Read my thoughts about Brian May above.

Anyway I give up, Im off to talk reason to religionists

I hope the above was not directed at me, Slash is hardly my "idol".  

I find it hard to believe a word he says...

 :rofl:  HAHAHA!!! Well done man, finally someone has said it!

Anyways, Slash,Duff and matt played on loads of material that they werent really into.  Once the piano/keyboards came out, that was it for the old guns.  I mean did "pretty tied up" and "civil war" really need keyboards!  

Did Chinese Democracy really need to be worked on for 15 years, or did it really need the ridiculous entrance to TWAT!

Also, when i saw GNR live in 06, did they really need to cover christina aguilera's "We are beautiful".  HAHAHA!

Of course.

I disagree with what D said because he's wrong!

I'm only making sure people get the correct facts and not some story that changes every other week.



Ah, so because I disagree with you I must be either stupid and/or on drugs.

I'm probably sober more days of the year than you.... So, there goes that theory.



Former employees and other people from the past are always the most reliable sources aren't they?


Since this is the VR section, you might wanna look at the bands Slash has been in since GN'R. You might notice how Snakepit changed members multiple times and how VR is without a singer because of how nice those guys were to each other.

Maybe the fact that VR imploded can be blamed on Axl too?


If you think the former members are always 100% honest when they talk about Axl, you're the one on drugs.




No, it was a general statement.

It seems easier to think that your idol isn't perfect when you can add "but, Axl's also full of it".....

 ::)



Clearly an open minded GN'R fan.



And once again, the VR fans are discussing Axl instead of Slash.....  :rofl:

This was supposed to be about the irony in the fact that after all these years, Slash isn't commenting on Axl.





/jarmo

do you really need to spend time posting on this site?

Against my better judgement.

Jarmo

When nearly EVERYONE that knew they guy in real life says the same things, (Erin, Izzy, managers, Steph, touring bands, Duff, Slash, Gilby, Robert John  etc etc etc)
I mean seriously do all these people get together on weekends to get theyre stories straight??? or is it more likely that they are offering opinions based on what they saw/experienced??

I personally think Axl has a huge heart, but I feel that more than likely he has been extremely erratic at times and often not such a nice guy.
When I called him delsusional, Im taking into consideration $70,000 herbal wraps, regression therapy ( a 90's fad and unless im mistaken an almost entirely discredited therapy) 'almost to the point of conception'.......Im taking into consideration that Axl cant seem to function on any level , be it personal relationships or fan communication without massive dramas.....but then blames everyone else (former members, GF's, fans etc etc etc.....) It;'s classic


You failed to answer the following:

When Izzy called Axl a dictator that was out of control , is he LYING??
When Brian May completely disagrees with Axls version of events regarding Catcher was he LYING??

Or perhaps 2 people view 2 events differently????
Slash could have DUMPED on Axl in his book, he didnt.

I think fans should get a grip.


Night

Well, he was asked a question and basically just said whatever

Why shouldn't I?  Its not like one can be accused of trolling whilst in the VR section!   :hihi:

That's a ridiculous counterargument.   Both of them are idolized around here, to the point where some people believe it's just not possible for either one or the other to have been wrong in some way.  The notion that either one of them is blameless is lame.  Let's face it - both of them are probably full of their own bullshit.       

Fair enough.

However, I hardly "justify" Slash's lying with any "Axl's this or that" commentary.

I have separate opinions of both based on their individual behavior over a period of time.

As mrlee said, "Full of shit" seems like a common denominator to all parties involved on various points of contention.

 

^^ exactly



Very good points.  I get tired of the sentiment around here, on a Guns n' Roses (which, by the way, includes many versions of the band) site, that Axl is the be-all-end-all idol whose every word is taken as absolute fact and if Slash said it then he must always be lying.  It gets old.   

When you leave something behind by your own choice or because somebody else makes that choice (you're fired), do you look back on it thinking of all the good things?

No, you try to justify your own decision by making sure only the bad things are mentioned/remembered. It becomes "of course I made the right choice, I couldn't stay".

If you're fired, then it's "that guy was an asshole, I did nothing wrong".







See above.

Maybe he wanted to see it that way in order to make his decision seem right.





I get that.

But I also believe that Slash sees things in a very different way and it's not necessarily close to the truth.

While Axl is honest.



Also, in the case of Slash, he's been caught lying!

How is that "seeing things differently"?





Of course you do.

As you said, Guns N' Roses site.

Axl is in GN'R, Slash isn't.  : ok:


If you go to a Slash site, then you might notice how they support him and his career.

We support GN'R in 2009, and Slash isn't part of the band. If that's an issue for you, maybe you've misunderstood something about this site?




/jarmo

Jarmo you make some good points sometimes, but seriously you cant even look at Axl subjectively, you turning round and saying someone who disagrees with you is wrong simply because you think Axl cant do no wrong is more messed up than people arguing over this same shit again and again

And your signature says a lot.  :rofl:


My opinion is that Axl is honest and Slash isn't.

I'm not the only one with that opinion.


I don't buy the popular opinion that Axl broke up the band. All those guys who left are responsible for their own actions.

Is it Axl's fault that Slash has an ego? No, of course not.

Yet people think he hasn't got one because he's just this cool carefree guitar player in a top hat.....



Maybe I should throw in a quote here:





/jarmo

it would be cool to get more ^^Marc Canter talking regarding these issues. he appears to be more objective in general. main advantage: he wasnt in the band but always had and still has connections with both, Slash and Axl. so he might add some more "truth" than the both celebrity death matchers.

He could add some more insight but what would he stand to gain by that, especially if he wants to keep his connections with both men intact.

i could agree the best solution for him probably might be NOT going deeper into this. and hell, i'm not requesting or demanding anything but seeing it from the fans' site.....Marc Canter could be the best objective source we could get regarding these issues IMO.
Beta, Del, Fernando are too close to Axl, others have no contact anymore etc., ya know?

I don't think Axl is a "liar" and I think Slash lies but that doesn't make him necessarily a "Liar" if that makes any sense whatsoever.


I honestly don't think Slash takes enough fault for what his drug abuse did to drive that wedge between he and Axl.  I think Axl justifies *and maybe rightfully so* his control over the band due to it being like "well, I had to carry this band cause u guys were so fucked up to do anything" so why now should i go back to things being even.


he has a point. I honestly think the drugs really turned Axl off and caused a big distance between them.  SO i can see how that is Slash's fault and how Axl was difficult to work with, but maybe he was labeled "Difficult" cause he didn't want to be mediocre or just good.


I do agree that Slash is at his best when Axl pushed him.

I know from experience, I have always been sober and I have been in several bands with druggies and it fucking SUCKS and is        damn near impossible to deal with.

So he wrote a bio?

Wow!! Fuck me, what a shock.

And in the bio he wrote about Guns N Roses and his relationship with the members of that band. Jesus! Who would have thought it?!

Thousands and thousands of people write autobiographies every year. There is no problem in that at all. Everyone has the right to express there thoughts on the life they have lived, and if people want to read about it... then he's a lucky chap.

You should give him credit for actually talking about stuff publicly, rather than locking himself away for years without a word. And what do you want him to write about? Should he just completely ignore Guns entirely or risk the wrath of Jarmo?

Yet one more thread that had descended into nonsense and pathetic bickering.

Are you basically admitting that this site is biased against ex members of GnR... whoever they may be?

It's not so much against the old members (IMO), but more about being for the current ones.  This is a fan-site, what did you expect, seriously?

That goes both ways. 

If you leave or get fired you say eh fuck them, big assholes, ect., ect.

If you are still there as either an employee or a friend or a hanger-on, very seldom are there any out of pocket comments unless you are not looking to stay long. 

Seems very few here want to look at this from an objective pov.

It's either one side or the other.  Very little in the middle.  It's like a couple of high school cliques.

Actually none of it really matters much in the end.    It's supposed to be about the music.

Hypothetical question:  If Robin comes out in the future and says Axl was really hard to get along with and he couldn't stay any longer and that's why he went back to NIN is he going to get slagged the way anyone else says these things are?

Man, I love the 'Slash lies, so therefore Axl has done no wrong' argument. Sometimes I find the level of fanaticism on this board just plain creepy. For someone to have their rational way of thinking so impaired by an individual that it insites absolute blind loyalty and sycophancy is a worry.

Who would've thought that people who were there with him would object to him "setting the record straight about GN'R" and then just basically telling the story like he wants us to remember it, instead of sticking to the truth?

When even Duff says he doesn't recall the events like Slash does.


How weird that people react!




Yeah, it's so creepy to believe in something and support it.

In this case, GN'R.





/jarmo

Jarmo, I love you portray GNR as some sort of Religion or Faith that you must "beleive" in.  Its a fucking rock n roll band born from the gutter that made it to the peak of the highest mountain from busting their ass.  But that is about where it stops.  Lets not make GNR something they are not. 

Pretty much everyone here supports GNR or they would not be here. 

 

Ok, you just pissed me off, so I'll repeat myself again.   ::)  I started here several years ago after searching through many GnR sites which seemed to be either pretty exclusively about either "then" or "now".  I wasn't interested because, for me,  that's not what GnR is really about.  GnR is a band which has existed for a long time and includes many different versions and members.   I found this site and really liked it because it was about GnR as a whole, I thought, at that time.  Obviously, that's changed. 

Now, it's "we support GnR in 2009".     

"As you said, Guns N' Roses site. Axl is in GN'R, Slash isn't.  : ok:"

I thought this was (well it used to be) more of an all emcompassing site.  A GnR site.  That includes a lot of people, including Slash, among others.   

"We support GN'R in 2009, and Slash isn't part of the band. If that's an issue for you, maybe you've misunderstood something about this site?"

Maybe I have misunderstood something.  As far as I'm concerned, GnR includes a fuck of a lot more than just what exists today, in 2009.  If you think it's just that, then I believe that's a pretty narrow minded view of what GnR is about and has ever been.  If you truly just want to support the 2009 version then why don't you just make this site exclusively that, if that's what it is for you?   

   

Sounds that way, doesn't it?  If it's going to be that way, then why even fucking bother having anything about ex-members?   

Oh, I'm sure he will be.  After all, it's about GnR 2009, you know. 

This is supposed to be a fan site about GnR.  But only if you're a fan of today's version.   

But only if it's the 2009 version. 

The 2009 version is what GnR is now.   You are talking about what GnR was, and is no longer.   It used to be, but not today.   Its not hard to understand.  :peace:

why argue about it?

No, that's not it (and no kidding, by the way).  Did you even read what I tried to say?   

You know - it doesn't even fucking matter, because this place has gone from what I thought was a pretty good site about GnR to only about GnR today and God help anyone who wants to think differently.  So, if it's just about today and you can't talk about anything different and Axl has become THE idol around here, then it's become just another one-sided lame site.   It's not about Guns and Roses anymore, it's about 2009 and that's it.  That's not GnR and what it's about, for some of us around here anyway. What a bunch of shit.     
 

so you are telling us the current lineup isn't GnR?

I mean it is what it is.   

A lot of people have good points about this site.  If your not  a 100%  Axl worshipper than you are gonna get bashed on here.  A classic example of this of this is D.  he always makes good points and admits to being an Axl AND slash fan.  Still he gets bashed if he questions Axl.  When I commented on the guns n roses section, I was accused of trolling.  But they're always on here too!  So lets all just focus on Axl Rose and agree with all that he says! - oh wait, isnt this the VR section  :rofl:

That's not at all what I meant and, somehow, I think you know that.  Do I need to reiterate what I said in another way?    I feel like you just took everything I wrote and turned it right around to the opposite.   

Axl is incapable of lying.
Axl walks on water.
Axl turns water in to wine.
Axl cures cancer with his tears.
Axl is the greatest musician in the world ever.
Axl never makes mistakes.
Axl is a prophet from God.

I believe, I believe, I believe.


If you don't believe this then you have no business being here.  There is no concern for the perspectives of others here, only Axl's.  Who cares that if not for theother 4 originals Axl would be building cars back in Lafayette, that's irrelevant here because this in GnR 2009.  Love it or leave it, baby!!

"We support GN'R in 2009, and Slash isn't part of the band. If that's an issue for you, maybe you've misunderstood something about this site?"


buckethead and robin finck aren't too. does it means we don't have to support chinese democracy ?

I support every member of guns n'roses. a lot of them said a lot of bullshit in the past years, but I don't care too much.
even Lennon said shit about Macca. people lied about others, bashing, etc. but it's only a question of love.
if you don't love someone at all, you don't even talk about him. souvenirs are painfull sometimes.
Guns N'Roses is a moving entity, some people joins, some people left. some becomes ennemies of Axl, it doesn't mean
we have to agree with him, even if, I admit, I rarely think he's wrong and I understand why.

BINGO

Yeah, the focus is on today.

So if you have a problem with something like accepting this current band as GN'R, you might need another site. That's all.....



This issue seems to arise quite often among you confused Slash fans for some reason.

You seem to think that because Slash was in GN'R until 1996, we need to support all his actions. If that's the case, you might need a Slash fan site.






Whatever you say.  ::)




/jarmo

Jarmo, you are just as bad as the slash defenders when it comes to defending Axl.

You only wanna see it your way.

Which is why you rejected the  "they're both full of shit" comment because it equally blames Axl as it does Slash.

My comment is not about saving Slashs image. I couldnt give a damn about Slash. Hes over-rated to fuck.

So? This is a GN'R site.

I never understood the whole idea of being a fan of something means you have to point fingers and bash the things you're a fan of.


I'm not in high school anymore so I don't worry if somebody thinks it's uncool to say things like "I think GN'R is the best band in the word".





/jarmo

difference is Axl is in GnR, Slash is not, hasn't been for 13 years, and he's not even on the latest album.

I don't go to Slash boards and bash everything Slash does and talk about how much I love Axl.

U do that enough here in the VR Forum or Slash related threads :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

So doing so makes you a hypocrite.

You are passionate about Guns N Roses, And Axls vision and musical contributions.  So , because the music he makes and the guys in the band now, mean alot to you. You want to defend them because you believe in them, yes?

So the people who are fans of slash, talking about slash, defending slash, in the EX-GUNNERS/VELEVET REVOLVER section are going to do the same are they not, because what he is/was apart of, means alot to them too.

So telling them , they are blind or this and that. Yet you will deny Axl having part of any wrong doing is hypocritical.

I feel both Axl AND Slash are full of crap. But i dont see your need to preach to the Slash/VR fans in the section designated to them.  If it was in any of the other sections on the forum, fair enough, justified. But surely its expected here.

So your answer is to get rid off the section?

I believe there are GN'R fans who are curious about what the former members are doing.

Obviously some of you seem to think that this is a Slash fan site because we have a sub section for his current band.



/jarmo

this isn't a VR forum tho, its a GnR forum.   Just because there is a thread or a section for VR doesn't make this a VR site.

isn't there an offiical VR forum?  I think there is, and I'd bet there is a GnR section too. but I don't know because I don't go to it and troll.  That is all I'm sayin.

I know dude, I was just busting your balls. : ok:

Sure go ahead. VR sucks and the only thing in this section is arguments anyway.

i could do with out a vr section :D  i've been saying this for years.   ex-gunners is cool tho cuz I do like to keep up with what guys like Izzy, Bucket,and now Robin are up to..

I wouldn't get rid of the section...It's a band related to most of the GNR members. If the band is basically done though I'd can it. We'll see what happens as far as them getting a singer.

give up trying to talk sense on this topic at this forum. me and several others have been trying for years, it just won't take with wome people.

carmiedisco12, you win the award for my favourite poster!

man, it must tear some of these hardcore 2009 GN'R fanboys to pieces to listen to something like Estranged when the solos come crawling up in the song, knowing that you hate the guy that plays it so intensely!

glad Im more of a musiclover than a hardcore dedicated fan and a politican in some ways.

Jarmo I think you are missing the point.

The reason people on this site get annoyed at your comments is because you seem to have changing standards and biased views towards certain people in the band.

Eg:

Robin walked out of the band but we still support him in a positive way.

But

If anyone says anything positive about Slash they instantly get ripped about by bitchy comments.

It is just unnecessary. And a bit pathetic.

Slash says something.
Duff says something.
Axl says something.
Axl's manager says something.
Perla says something.

Etc

We have no firm evidence to show who is telling the truth 100% or who to believe. Even people like Del James can't be trusted as they have an agenda to stay in with certain camps.

if 10 people see something happen and you ask them to describe it, a few hours later you get 10 different responses.

now this has what 10 years between when it happened and now, and also alot of tension built up by the media. paraphrasing and editing interviews for their own goals.

it's a shame the 2 of them will never sit down and talk it out.

That perfectly illuminates the true source of the entire 13 year debacle between Axl and Slash and the breakup of the old band.

I absolutely agree. I think Slash in 2008 isn't the Slash from 1996.......... Axl, I am not sure of, but I think if they sit in a room for a few hours, they'd walk out being friends again maybe.

I've had all sorts of blowups with people that i swore I'd never speak to again and after talking it all changed.

The mistake you make, along with many other Slash fans, is that you assume too much.

Just because some of us find Snakepit and/or VR boring, doesn't mean we can't enjoy the stuff he did in GN'R.

We're GN'R fans, of course we like GN'R songs. I thought it was fairly obvious to most. But I guess to Slash fans it makes no sense!


So I don't get that kind of feelings listening to old GN'R materiel.

Does that upset you? That you can't at least get that kind of pleasure from us "fanboys".  :rofl:





Too bad for you.

This is a GN'R site, we're on GN'R's side of the fence.

That's what support is about.



If you can't see the difference in how Robin has conducted himself compared to Slash, that's your problem, not mine.





/jarmo

Why do we have to be forced to have viewpoints? The whole point of forums is to argue about stuff and comment about recent happenings in the GnR world.

Seriously. I LOVE these arguments - right until people start bitching about the site, and the way its set up! We have a little bit of information from both sides, and then we each choose an opinion and argue it. Ideally, as a mod i'd expect Jarmo to tell us if we're doing it in the wrong section, or if we're spamming etc etc. But really he can do whatever he wants.

Right here, in the Ex-GNR section, I think, is where these arguments belong. And they're awesome until you start bitching about the site. Jarmo supports Axl, yet whenever he makes a point , you start criticizing the site - argue with his points like Smoking Guns did! Cos he makes some good ones..

even if he's wrong.. : ok:

Thanks m_rated for the kind words.

Jarmo, you are a great fan of the current band and the GNR name and I really respect that.  And you don't need to explain your love for the old songs, that is something WE ALL agree on.  They are classic.  I wouldn't change a thing about them.  As far as Finck goes, I never got the idea he poured his heart and soul into GNR like Slash did.  In the end, he truly was more of a hired gun that quit the band twice during his tenure.  Say what you want about Slash, but he didn't leave GNR to go tour with Bush or something rediculous like that.  He stayed in GNR till he felt he couldn't do it anymore.  Robin stayed in GNR till a better gig came. 

and when that didn't happen settled for a terrible gig like NIN.

The irony for a "Gn'R" to say this...

i love how you slash fans slip in these robin jabs whereever you can, no matter how irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Anyone who would call NIN a terrible gig probably has their head stuck in 1987 and haven't the slightest clue.  Even if NIN isn't your thing, to call it a terrible gig is just ridiculously stupid.   I want some of what you are smoking.

Smoking Guns looks at everything with a very heavy Slash bias.  Look how he claims Slash stuck around until he couldn't anymore and makes it sound like Robin was only there for a paycheck.   You have no idea what you are talking about dude.   Then again you think Axl and Slash really love each other.  :rofl:

Notice how its the Slash fans who have the big obsession with reunions and such.   Modern day GnR fans in general do not care.    Who needs who again?

who needs who? both need eachother!! the main public in the rock world still would love to see them reunited, you cant twist that. Slash made his offers.....Axl refuses til death. so if it would be for the fans......Axl fails to respect this issue not Slash.

I would love to hear Robin's side of the story, that is for sure. SOmething had to happen to piss him off though. U don't stick around a band for a decade and leave right when shit gets going.

NIN....is a really good gig though lol.

N hey , it was Robins original main band, perhaps he was happy to patch up with Trent n do something fresh. He'd been in GNR years, guess he wanted a change.

March 25, 2009

Lastly, in answer to all your questions as to why I chose not to continue on with Guns N Roses, the reasons are pretty well documented in my book, I'd rather not revisit that subject anymore, thank you.

Cheers,
Slash iiii|| ; )

MySpace update

What a legend!

Smart money says that'll never happen. :(


Not necessarily.

I've always thought Robin was married to NIN with GNR as a mistress.  His relationship with Reznor (though tumultuous at times) will seemingly always take precedence over whatever else he has going on musically.

Axl should act according to his feelings, thoughts, not according what fans love. A musician is, first of all, a human being who has the right to be with the people he wants. It would be stupid that Axl reunites with Slash just to please the fans or the "rock world" or to make more money. Axl?s attitude makes me admire him.

Then why is it the Slash fans who are crying for Axl and Slash to play together again??

most who prefer Axl could care less.   

That alone tells you who needs who.

the chemistry on stage with those 2 together is hard to top and has been a big part of their success in the 80s/90s in the first place, something any other hired musician in the last years fails to IMO, and i'm not alone with that. people mostly call for Slash and Axl not Tobias and Axl or Finck and Axl.
respecting decisions and opinions....but calling it "stupid" to please soooo many fans in the rock world is out of line.
and still nobody can honestly twist the point that Axl is the only one unwilling to do some reunion with the classic line-up.

What kind of rights do you have to tell Axl who he needs in his life? Who needs to be in the band with him etc.?

I guess you didn't notice that Axl isn't motivated by the success?

He says he's not interested, why not respect it and move on with your own life instead of trying to condemn others to reunions they want no part of.




/jarmo

i've mostly only listed facts here, Jarmo. i didnt tell anyone what to do, neither did i mention success or money being an important factor for any kind of reunion for me.
if you interpretate the fact -that openly posting that out of the 5 guys from the classic line-up only 1=Axl says in 2008/9 that a reunion will never happen- as condemnation, well...thats your problem, but the fact still remains the truth for now.
further you dont need to tell me what to do with my life, and this is some real respect issue  ;)

So you just like to bring up facts about things that you don't even want to happen? You just like to argue about how everybody wants the reunion except Axl in order to achieve what exactly?

Why is it out of line to call a reunion, that's aimed to please a bunch of people who are never happy anyway, stupid?





/jarmo

You shouldn't call it stupid because the reunion is a sincere dream of some people.  You shouldn't call anyone's dreams stupid.  It may be unrealistic but I don't think it's stupid.

I am sure, that had the internet existed during the years of the Eagles breakup that people would have been clamoring for a reunion and others would have said no way in hell will that ever happen.  I think we all know how that one turned out.

so you got the fact talking finally and yes, unlike some others on this board i often like to talk about facts. people can and will interpretate the axl-no-reunion-stuff like they want. some call it egoistic mania, others true perfectionism, whatever....its up to them but the truth remains Axl being the only no-sayer. i dont see a problem listing this fact. actually i'm glad he did spoke out about this issue even if it makes some people happy and destroys hopes and wishes from many others. but its his decision so he is responsible for that and the blame and fame he gets from.

being little more subjective: with this band its always been some hard with hopes and wishes or any expectations, thats what long-time fans have experienced the hard way and better lived and live without.

"to please a bunch of people who are never happy anyway" is a totally subjective but offensive assumption by you i wouldnt rate any worth to discuss.

I ask anybody

would u bet everything u own or your life that there will never be a reunion?


I can almost guarantee that someday, we will see a reunion.   Maybe not anytime within the next 5 to 10 years, but before its all said and done, it will happen, if only a one off show.

But, if somebody thinks it's stupid, they probably have a good reason to call it that?

If somebody says "I'm not interested in that because I'm happy doing what I do now" and people still insist, you don't think it's a bit stupid, not to mention disrespectful?



Destroys hopes and wishes? Yeah, you forgot to add the word selfish. Destroys some peoples' selfish hopes and dreams.




It's a fact.

I thought you were interested in listing facts....  :rofl:

Offensive? Hardly.

Prove the fact wrong then. There's a bunch of GN'R fans who will never be happy. There's always something they want differently.

Are you saying all they don't exist?




/jarmo

Just because you don't share that same dream doesn't mean it's stupid. 

Would you/did you like when people told you that your dream of having the best GnR site on the web was a stupid dream to have?

Like I said before, is it unrealistic at this point?  Absolutely.  Stupid?  Not so much.  I agree with D, it more than likely will happen at some point but until then we get to enjoy this new, ever changing, lineup.

I don't know if I had that exact dream... But if I did, it would be a dream that was mostly up to myself.

So I wouldn't call it stupid.


If I had a dream of you working with people you don't get along with, maybe you'd think my dream was a bit stupid?


Personal dreams of achieving things in your own life aren't exactly stupid.

There's a difference between dreams and dreams. ;)



/jarmo

It is stupid.   Guns N' Roses has a perfectly capable and solid lineup.    Do you like it?  If so, then stop worrying about reunions.  Do you not like it?  Fall off the face of the earth please.  :)   

I see what you're saying.  But to have a successful site you'd have to depend on others to come and use your site and to some critics that could be labeled as stupid.

At any rate, I do see the validity in what you're saying.

For the record, I am not one of those dreamers hoping for a reunion.  I saw the originals in 88, version 2 in 92, vrsion 3 in 01 and version 4 in 02.  I am curious about seeing BBF and this DJ guy, though.

you know what all the re-union shit is boring.

if it happens it happens, if it doesn't so what. if people want to dream about it let them dream.

at the end of the day life goes on, the same way it did when people were waiting for the album.


oh and on a sidenote, antagonistic posts only fuel the fire, you say that it's stupid and you get another 10 posts saying why it isn't stupid. cut that shit out and you have a fraction of the bullshit left.

ah, come on, Jarmo, you can do much better!

easy to falsify:
general happiness in life and the wish/dream to see one of the greatest duets in rock history reunite dont have much in common, if any. when you're combining exact those words above from you it would mean if the mother from your neighbour would love to see an slash/axl reunion then she's never happy in her life. eh...hello? this is what i've said allready, a totally subjective but offensive assumption by you. just because many would like to see them reunite you take this complete against them rating them being unhappy, thats the offensive character.
only replying on the fact issue, as said before i'm not willing to discuss that more.

the word selfish i'm very ok to add that when it comes to hopes, dreams and wishes...cause thats part of the structure of them.

haha, solid line-up? Finck just left, Jim Bob!! he is GONE! we all will....wait....or "have to" move on!!

You still didn't prove the fact to be false.

There are GN'R fans who constantly find things to complain about (regarding GN'R).

If you claim otherwise, you're the offensive one!  :hihi:

I don't know what you're going on about, I was merely speaking about their complaints about GN'R, not their lives.

So you can twist and over analyze my words all you want, that was the only thing I was talking about. Fact!



I'll say this though, if a GN'R reunion is something you live for, maybe you do have an unhappy existence.

Meaning, if that dream is the only one that keep you going....





/jarmo

Finck is my favorite guitarist, but in GnR he was 1 of 8.    7 out of 8 are still there.  87.5% of the touring band from 2007.   They are still solid and they have a new guitar player who looks promising.  : ok:

enjoy living with your head up 1987's ass!

Who exactly is insisting that he reunites with the other fellas?  I see alot of "I hope they reunite" or "It would be nice to see" for the most part.  I for one would love to see them reunite, but I am more than happy if they don't.  It would never live up to the hype anyway. 

I don't think hoping and dreaming about it is selfish per se.  Demanding there be a reunion is selfish but no one here is even any type of position to demand anything from any of the boys.

Solid as in musically solid maybe.  Not foundationally solid.  Every time we see them touring someone is being replaced.

that was your quote we're discussing, i am not twisting any of it. "who are never happy anyway" in this quote isnt connected to GN'R directly, it more comes as it can be seen as general unhappiness you were implying to. and thats what is falsified allready. yeah, off course later "GN'R" is added in there and i doesnt have the wide general meaning of happiness anymore. but factly the bands' name isnt within your original quote. so thats were the misunderstanding started, you meant it to be GN'R related but it can be seen differently.
but even if now seen as only being GN'R related your quote is misleading as the main subject can also be seen from at least 2 main perspectives. do you mean any GN'R reunion would be stupid or only if it happens for the reason to please unhappy GN'R fans?
and actually the "bunch of people" wanting to see an Slash/Axl reunion is a pretty big one!

eh, Jim Bob, the new EMO looking one will have to prove himself live first before judging his role in Axl's band.

enjoy living with your head up 2001-07 ass!  : ok:

Jesus.

You're telling me that it's not about GN'R when the topic at hand is a GN'R reunion and I even explained the meaning to you?

So even though I explained to you what I meant, you're still interpreting it your own way? Maybe you should type my posts for me since you know what I really mean?




I don't think I said that.

I think I said that I can understand why it would seem stupid to some. Because one guy is not into the idea and still talking about it every other week can be seem as stupid by people.


Because I didn't agree with your comment that calling it stupid was "out of line".  : ok:


I don't have an opinion on a reunion, so I can't tell you if I think it would be awesome, amazing, cool, great, spectacular, stupid, silly,  magnificent, pointless, idiotic or something else.




Don't worry about Jim Bob.

I'm sure he's a big boy and he can take care of himself.

You just go watch those bootlegs of the old band and cross out another day in the calendar when the reunion didn't happen.

 ;)


By the way, what happened to your "Thanks for the European tour 2006" text under your avatar?

That was a nice touch. Showing gratitude to the band, nice support.  : ok:




/jarmo

my thoughts exactly and he does get a free pass for leaving the band twice compared to other members

That's his favorite cop-out. Go through his posts, and I guaren-damn-tee you'll find him use that same line at least a dozen times in the last month.

It's pure systematic denial. As soon as his reunion wishes are shown to be baseless, he whines and runs away like a dog with his tail between his legs.

You know he was responding my comment/question in that above quote.  I just don't like to see people not forgive each other.  I don't like to see people hate each other for the rest of the their lives over basically petty stuff.  They should be grateful to be alive.

The music is what matters.   The ever-changing lineup has always been the deal, and it probably always will be.  

There is the core of Axl/Dizzy/Tommy/Chris who have been at this for a decade+ and Robin was there just as long.    Richard and Ron have already proven to be excellent guitarists and while Finck played more leads than either of them, DJ has great chops, and now and perhaps Richard and Ron will get to step up and shine more.   Brain and Frank are both excellent, I think the band is a little tighter with Frank, but Brain has better techincal skill.. I'm happy with either one.   This is my favorite band..

Look at videos of Ron with the band that first night at the Hammerstein in 2006.  And then look at one of the last shows from the tour in Japan.    

Yes the players taking the songs on the road might not be all the same guys who recorded them, but isn't going to a live show more about enjoying music and the show?   Axl is at the helm, always will be.. so the way I see it you can do one of two things.   Either accept the facts and support the band and go see them on tour and buy the albums.. or find another band, theres loads of good music out there.   What good is pissing and moaning about things you can't change??  

But the show is also about the players and enjoying them.  For the most part people are going to shows to not only hear the music but see their musical "heroes" or whatever you want to call them.  If it was just about listening to the music then they would stay at home and listen to it on their stereo or what have you.  People want to see their rockers rocking out but there is no one besides Axl that anyone can become emotionally attached to.  I know going to a GNR show that Axl is the main guy and thats why I pay the ticket price.

At least that's been my experience of the live shows I went to of whatever band it is.

I disagree.   Axl is the biggest draw, always has been, always will be.  But you are completely discrediting the rest of the guys in the band.

I'm not saying they suck.  I'm saying the general public doesn't know them and if it's always a revolving line up they never will.  We will by virtue of being fans and following the band.

And yeah Axl has always been the biggest draw but not the only draw, yet right now he is.  If they can keep a great band intact now and with hopefully future releases then that should change if the music is great. Then the people that really want a reunion should become smaller.

At least that's my personal view on it.

reunion is not an option.    death before reunion.   so anyone wanting that is wasting their wishes.    like it or not.

Missed the point.

HAHAHA!  Come on!  Axl not motivated by success!  Then why the hell did he try to perfect an album for 15 years!  And why is he going on a "stadium tour"?  Surely on the tour he is going to try and make Nu GNR more popular by playing the old material.  I think you've got this the wrong way around.  Slash and Duff are happy to just go out and play.  Axl IS motivated by success.  I guess he still thinks Guns n Roses are a big deal in 2009.

after all the confirmations in the world...some still believe that a full blown reunion is going to happen?
unbelievable...even Steven Adler gave up in it...and if he did...then we know its a terminal prospect... :hihi:
why are we simply not happy with the fact that all of them are still alive...firstly...and secondly...still active in the music world..?

in this day and age of boring music and no excitement in rock whatsoever, Axl Rose is keeping us all entertained and hooked onto his brand of rock the way he always has been doing....nothing new there...

Axl Rose and his revolving door scheme, although not very popular with most has provided us with some bad ass artists to start being fans of...bucket, robin, brain, ron....these are all virtuoso's in their field and i am glad we had the opportunity to see them in action next to the best front man out there...that alone is kickass...

can you even imagine a reunion show?

no one would be focusing on the music...everyone would be watching how Axl reacts to Slash on stage, is Duff comfortable, on whose side of the stage is Izzy on...and so on....we'd all be focused on how uncomfortable they're feeling with each other....and then we'd take them apart the next day because it wasn't what we expected it to be....a reunion is a very bad idea...the music would suffer...

no, Jarmo, we were talking about facts, remember? re-read your own exact quote and you can see where the misunderstanding started. you are the one giving room for interpretation there. fact  :)

as for my "Thanks for the European tour 2006" text under my avatar.....its gone for some weeks, thought that about 2 years of thanking was enough. i "moved on", ya know? not living in 2006 anymore ;)  but find the new avatar GN'R quote realistic these days. off course it might change any day, exspecially IF Axl + back up band surprises me some more again live or with new releases.

and please stop posting your assumpted little personal attacks about me and/or others as if i'd watch the classic-line-up dvds day in day out all the time. the idea gave me a good laugh though   :hihi:

You sound like a kid who wants his parents back together eventhough they divorced 13 years ago, and have both moved on in life and found happiness.

If Slash and Axl have both found happiness, and yet you've still got your panties in a bunch because you can't have what you want, what's that say about you?

Slash is currently starting recording his solo album with josh Freese on drums!

GNR will never be a 'band' again until the lineup is solid enough to have a 'band' photo taken that can accompany an actual album.

If Axl's answer to who's in the band is....'lets go with who's on the album' then obviously its not a band, its a loose definition of a solo album with a few long term friends.
That's a shame
Cos u lose the name and we all still get the same music without all these arguments.

Unfortunately time has revealed the answers to  a lot of the argumets that were going on when I first found this site 5-8 yrs ago, and it's a damn shame, cos I loved GNR.

On topic, Josh Freese is an awesome drummer, and I hope some of the old raw Slash mised with his gift for melody is back. Though IMO Slash was always the awesome finisher, he's not at his best as the constructor of a tune.

@ AxlsMainMan:
your recent posts sound like you being a ret*** full of assumptions with the only intention to attack fans who dont share your views, just to fullfill your own happiness.   :D

I'm sure your posts sound intellegent and wellthought? damn near excellent eh?

Not cool..

If you're gonna get personal, take it to PM's.

Understood?

that was just an answer on his last 2 personal attacking posts at me. rarely like this but if thats the way he/she only can play can be in the game, too.
and actually those attacks can easily be interpretated like i said, so its not that far off. but why not re-reading his/her crap before answering a post you dislike? eh?
there is some huge problem here when people are trying to discuss things that often someone jumps right within attacking on a personal level for whatever reasons. when you disagree with others' views talking about things but go attacking personal its a lack of discussion skills. a bigger one.

Wait..

Aren't you the guy wishing for a reunion so you're own happiness can be attained? :hihi:

Are people like you ever going to move on from the whole name issue?

Yeah, it's true that you can always twist my words to mean something they don't.

Congrats.


Are you happy with the explanation now or do you still insist I meant something else?





It didn't say "Axl + backing band". I guess something must've happened to you in those two years....

A new release? What, the, fuck.




Says the guy attacking/insulting others who oppose his views....  ::)



Because he puts his art first instead of money and fame?





/jarmo

Either way, it's not acceptable here.

So in a word:

Stop.

my avatar never had the GN'R b(r)and name so wth.
Jarmo, a new release can be a lot more than a new album which surely isnt on the radar in the near future. let it be a video, a re-release (there was official talking about a better booklet) with maybe even some bonus like an official dvd-docu or bonus tracks, official live-shows (as Metallica offers for example) etc.  i still can get excited about things if they are made some good in my ratings. actually my main hopes are for different setlists and thats not too unrealistic.

True, Axl is the biggest draw in the band. Not true that jemin was discrediting the rest of the guys in the band.  Whenever they tour, what, their's gonna be some sort of emotional attachment to the guitarist's? No offense to the newer guys but the only one left thats been there a while and made major contributions to CD is Richard Fortus and a little bit from Thal, who only played one tour with the band.  I think that's what jemin was getting at. 

Chris and Brain have both been in the band longer than Richard and have a few writing credits compared to no writing credits for Richard.

Plus, they're on virtually every song whereas Richard is only on like 5 songs.

why does it really matter who was on what songs or who wrote what?

thats silly..

It doesn't matter to me at all, I was merely pointing out that what classicgunsfan was saying is false.

i was speaking of the lead guitarists mainly, bucket since he's all over and makes the record and fink.

Careful where you tread and what you say, there, you guys.  Remember, we only support the 2009 version, here.   : ok:

You still mentioned "major contributions to CD from Richard" eventhough he's only on like 5 tracks and has no writing credits:

oldgunsfan, u don't know what you're talking about

I'm pretty sure ron is on every song on the record man.. and he has been on 3 tours not one  ;) and it's his third year and got great contact with the band and fans right away

and lynn, i'm pretty sure we're supporting the only GNR there is to support, we can't go back in time and support anything, we can support the present for the future though : ok:

btw, I was sure that this was slash thread, guess i was wrong

that's silly?
man, I bet you're huge on coverbands!

i don't go to forums about coverbands or follow what they do, but you see a lot of them when you live in las vegas and some of them are all right.   

i go to a show to enjoy the music and the live band experience.   Axl has never brought a lineup of GnR out on tour that has disappointed me yet, and I don't think that will change.

I don't sit there and over analyze everything like some people.   I go to have a good time.

Axl could sing with Hanson backing him and it would still be badass cause its Axl, so hard for it to be a "bad" show. 

so why are ppl complaining?

I am not really sure, I guess cause they liked the other guys like Bucket and Robin, but ya, I think the show itself will still be great, you know what I mean?

I'm gonna miss Robin too.   Sucks I'll never be able to see him play the This I Love solo... but i'm not going to complain about it..  I respect Robin's choice and the band's choice to move on and no amount of complaining will change that.

of course the show will be kickass  ;D   thats what really matters.   everything else is just small shit.