Here Today... Gone To Hell!

http://www.thevaultradio.com/index1.html

he says that in this new interview...also says hes touring in July in the U.S. with a "big band" he cant talk about yet..

Maybe they are touring with STP. Nevermind, they aren't a "big" band.  Perhaps Van Halen.  Sounds promising!!!  We need a good US tour!

Or reformed led Zeppelin?  :P

nice! gona be good!

Peace

baz said that he himself will be touring with a big band, not that he (axl) with a big band,, at least that's how i read the comment..

ya, baz is touring with a big band in July/August in the U.S.  but he cant talk about it yet because all the contracts arent signed...

but he did say "axl is getting ready to put out chinese democracy"

also they are filming a video to "by your side" to coincide with the tour

Baz has been saying for quite sometime that CD is coming out.....
Perhaps he's touring w/ GN'R again, if not perhaps KISS or Aerosmith this summer.

well, who does Big John work for besides Brett Michaels?? because Baz said big john will be on the tour...

I know he works for Kid Rock

Sounds promising. "Getting ready to put out the album" sounds way better than "the album's done" or that "there's xx albums worth of material" etc.

The album has to be done first before they can get ready to put it out... So to me it sounds like things are really moving forward. :)

Baz is playing a Swedish festival where Bret is also playing (with Poison).




/jarmo

Cool, that song is amazing. Can someone put up the lyrics here?

In fact, the whole album contains the most dynamic music to my ears that I have heard in a long time.

Well what did he say? I can't get this thing to work...  :crying:

yes he did..."I text him all the time, and hes getting ready to put out chinese democracy"

I just listened to it a 2nd time its around minute41

Sorry, my bad!  For some reason I have a 14 minute version of the radio interview, not 41 minutes.  You're absolutely right!!

I can't find any version... ???

Same. Someone just rip it n' upload it.

its on the left...says sunday..click play

Yeah, he did say that!  :D

He also said something about "a book that is out now"...  :hihi: He said that they must be talking about a different person because that's not what Axl is like at all.. But we already knew that didn't we.  ;)

i wouldn't hold your breath about that.

You can't say that most of us around here aren't hopeful, can you?   More breadcrumbs, but tasty breadcrumbs at that....

One could argue that Axl has been getting ready to put out the album for some time. If Baz said "Axl's prepping an announcement or Axl's finalizing the release date" or something I'd think this was major news.

As usual we have to take it with a grain of salt, but that combined with the mystery tour in July at least makes this the most promising little nugget we've gotten in a while.

Once again Baz is dropping the "Axl/GNR" name into yet another interview. I love Baz and his music kicks ass but as many people on this very board keep saying - If its gonna happen AXL and/or GNR will announce it.

I know its a pain in the ass waiting for news about a tour or release of CD but the monthly tidbit of gossip from Baz is really starting to get boring. :rant:

 :peace:

True, I got more from the tour line than anything else. It's cool to hear Baz anyway. He's awesome and I wish he'd get more exposure. Not to mention someone who is positive about Axl. I'm grateful for that too.

Would you rather have no tidbits of "gossip" from Baz? This is Axl's FRIEND we're talking about. I don't think it's boring at all.

By the way, the interviewer seemed to think he knew what band Baz was talking about when he talked about the upcoming tour. And I think he stated it quite clearly. Baz coulda said "no, it's not the one you're thinking about" or that "it's not GnR"... right? Even if the tour with some other band wasn't confirmed yet or if he wasn't really allowed to talk about it...?

Or maybe I'm reading way too much into this.  ::)

People complaining about Sebastian for making mention of GNR is really starting to get boring !   :rant:

that guy was Big John from the rock of love with brett michaels show...hes a bodyguard for several rockstars....thats why I was wondering who else he works for...

Gnr could start with RIR and then tour US. That's not a bad idea is it?  :smoking: If you want to promote a new album at the same time? An album that would be released in August or September? And put out a single before that, say, in July?

 ???

Seems like a good idea...

Axl should come to Hultsfred in Sweden and then i'd just commit suicide because i'd know that my life would never get better :hihi:

No, Bach has said in the past that Axl was eager to get it out - I think this is the first mention that Axl is actually getting ready to put it out.

I know that its inappropriate for Bach to be talking about Axl and promoting GNR so extensively since he isn't even a member of the band, but really we should be thankful that someone out there in the know actually shares some information with us.

Regarding the big tour news, surely he would have mentioned if it was GNR?
I'd figured he would because nobody close to the band has any concern about him speaking about the album.
Unless this is something they really do want to keep under wraps for the time being because its still being worked out.. ?

maybe when he said "big band" maybe he meant he's doing swing music now!!!  ;)  maybe its brian setzer.heehee

Well, this has been done all too many times before.  :-\

hey can some one send me a direct link to the interview? its not showing up for me

was this interview today? 

last night

I like Baz, but if he doesn't quit flapping his mouth about CD, he's gonna find himself banned from the estate. It'll be him and Slash sitting in Axl's driveway asking him for forgiveness.

I'm serious. Axl's put a lot of work into this, and if he wanted it known that he's ready to release it, he'd put it out there himself. Baz is a cool dude, but he's starting to ride the coat tails a little too much.

I'm sure he talks to Axl about all of that.  I'd imagine Axl would say something to Baz if he didn't want him talking about it.

Who's going to take Bach out on the radio EXCEPT Axl?  No one..

Agreed.

And i don't think he's riding on Axls "coat tails" i think he's just trying to promote it as much as he can as best as he can because he knows that they are strugelin trying to promote it.

:peace:

Wow sounds like things are moving foward my birthday is in June hopefully I can get on the plane to vegas rockin CD !!!!! I don't think Axl minds what Baz says sounds like are patience is paying off this is good news.

pffft my 18th birthday will be in January and i doubt i'll be crankin CD in my truck (hopefully i'm wrong) but i don't think anything will really happen for a while. I think the most we'll get is maybe another letter or a note of things going on or to happen soon, and maybe that'll happen in june :-\ hard to tell


:peace:

Nah man, I don't think there willt be any more official news on the album until things are definite. Based on the feedback from fans and press and critics, I can't see them making any more mentions of the  "forthcoming" or "soon to be released" album until they have a definite timeframe for release. To their credit, I'm sure they only had good intentions announcing a "tentative release date" last time, but it did backfire on them.

Yeah, I don't think they should say anything until they have a release date (or tour dates, or whatever they are going to do this year).

Man, "getting ready to put out Chinese Democracy" sounds like he's picking shirts and doing his hair already. LOL. ;)
We can only hope.

i think Ax's getting ready to put out chinese democracy since 2001's edition of rock in rio. without an explanation on why it takes so long for it to actually come out, i don't see why we'd be any closer now than we were 7 years ago.

Uhhh...  I'm pretty sure I remember a quote from Baz awhile back where he said he had asked Axl if he could talk about this stuff to people and if I remember correctly Axl told Baz - "sure. tell the whole world if you want to."

I see nothing wrong with this and it sounds awesome to my ears and I can't wait to go and buy 2 or 3 copies of this album when it finally does come out.

It's gonna' be freaking amazing!!!  :beer:

In some interview Bach told that he had asked from Axl if it's okay to talk about the new songs and mention songnames, and Axl had answered that no problem, go ahead. Bach doesn't bullshit, atleast not much  :D

Come on, everybody knows that Axl is getting ready to put out a new record !

Can someone transcript the interview?  : ok:

Didn't he mention when he was on Eddie Trunk's show that he was pressured to do the 2002 tour and that they weren't really ready at that point?  I don't think Axl really felt they were ready to try to put out CD until late in 2006.

he even said soon was not the word in 2002. :yes:

I believe he's been eager to put out chinese democracy for a decade and now he's ready.

Baz said he is starting his tour during July in Nebraska. Isn't that in your neck of the woods?

this big john guy does work for brian setzer it appears.

found this
unsure when he said this. is stray cats a swing band?

Yeah, I think you're right. He's been wanting to release a record but it hasn't been ready, and he hasn't been ready. If he's ready now, it looks like CD is just around the corner.  :)

Haha, no....they were popular in the 1980's-Rockabilly-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHNuY-nptGo

 ;)

On topic, I hope this topic is true! ;D

Axl looks very ready in live videos from 2006 and 2007  :smoking:

really now?

why yes it is but where did he say that?

At about 66:15 when a chick asks if he is going to be playing in Omaha any time soon. He responds that his tour is starting in July in Nebraska, and it goes until Sept.

sweet!

i'll have to look into that, Thanks : ok:

Same shit.


Different day.

yeah but maybe that's simply because this is the same thread you read a few days ago.  ???

thanks and I found out that the 1980's-Rockabilly-guys are starting their farewell tour in august in spain so
the big band can't be them.

Interview with Baz on the Classic Metal Show (http://www.theclassicmetalshow.com/), February 23rd, 2008:

DJ:: Be honest here Sebastian... Are we ever gonna hear Chinese Democracy? Not you, but us!

Baz:: YES!

DJ:: [laughs] Ok.....

Baz:: Yes you are. I know for a fact you are. And, it's not really him holding it back. It's all these business people fighting over it. And you know, I've been in contact with him and he's had it done for a long time.

DJ:: Right.

Baz:: And it's just.. There's so many people that are fighting over that album, that it's really bigger than him, you know? So, when I read all this crap about him, it's so hilarious 'cause people don't really know what they're talking about. You know? Guns N' Roses is bigger than rock.

DJ:: Right.

Baz:: They're like the Stones or Led Zeppelin, or Fleetwood Mac or something like that. Like when we toured with them, the whole city comes. You know, it's not just like "here's a show", it's like everybody comes out, you know?

DJ:. Right

Baz:: So... It's a very big deal. You'll hear it. I heard it, it's totally incredible.

DJ:: Excellent man.




/jarmo

[shakes fist in air] DAMN YOU BAZ! DAMN YOU FOR GETTING US ALL EXCITED AGAIN! DAMN YOU STRAIGHT TO HELL!

Thanks for that quote Jarmo. I have no doubt that there's been more holding up the album than just Axl, but we will never know the whole story until after the album comes out, or maybe never..

Business people fighting over it? I understand this thing probably cost 10 mil plus, but I'm still lost as to what could be so complicated about this-if the label is afraid they are going to lose money over it, what can they do about it? It's possible they don't want to pump a lot of money into marketing it

One word: lawyers. Most of them could screw up a wet dream.

I understand it's lawyers and stuff-I remember maybe 5 or 6 years ago I think Eddie Van Halen had said lawyers got involved and kind of stopped Roth at getting back together with them at the time-I could imagine how many things through the years for a lot of bands were messed up due to legal reasons

Lawyers have clients, you know. Clients want things and they hire lawyers to get them. Both sides, not just one. Axl has his lawyers, the record co. has theirs. Let's not pretend Axl and the record co. are naive little schoolgirls and the lawyers are just fucking everything up. There's plenty of blame to go around in this situation. I'm pretty sure of that.

I've hired many of them, and I have gone up against them. I know exactly how they think ... see the above idiom.

The fucked up thing is that there was plenty of time to negotiate things with the record company and all other parties involved while completing the record.  I mean, how did Axl expect to have a shot in hell of releasing the record last March which was 3 or so months after his press release?  Is progress being made or are they waiting for god to intervene?  Something has got to give.  As we approach the one year mark since Axl's tentitive release date, it would be a great thing for him to communicate to the fans, even if he can't give us a hard date, just to let us know that the record is completed and what the current status is.

including ex-members ?

Fleetwood Mac.  :rofl:

Oh Baz you crazy Canuck. But yeah, it's an exciting interview.

johnnyblood - absolutely agreed.


fuckin crazy - lawyers you've hired havent been that good then...? Maybe choose better next time.

And finally - all hail "baz" for there is nothing cd or axl related he doesnt know o no siree! and no - it isnt as if othe rpeole who have been quoted on the issue had any idea whats going/gone on. good god no!

just baz.

baz is truly the man with the info.

or the mouth. im surprised he hasnt choked on it yet, he's so full of it.

god bless the prophet!

 ::) :-\ :confused:

i agree with a large part of your sentiment, but more communications from axl wouldnt change/help/mean anything, imo, but based on experience.

I have retained some of the best in the business.
I'm glad some else caught that. They are good, but damn! GnR, Zepp, and The Stones ... I don't think so.

Baz is a close friend of Axl's. Probably one of the closest if not THE closest friend. If you choose to believe what someone else has said about CD over what Baz says, then ok.. it's your choice...

Did you ever think that maybe he would've liked to have done that but maybe the other side wasn't interested until the album was done?

Is that scenario possible?




Because it was possible, but things didn't go as planned?






/jarmo

i dont think baz knows whats hes talking about to be honest

Yeah well, what do you know?

about as much as you i'd say  ::)

Then the problem is you don't think! Baz is friends with Axl, they talk, so yeah I'm pretty damn sure he knows what he is talking about. They probably talk on the phone about whatever is going on.

So you don't think the fact that Baz actually knows Axl helps his credibility?

You don't think Axl would stop Baz if he felt that the guy was talking to much, let alone talking out of his ass?

is he really that close, and not just someone axl called after years of silence because he knew he was one of the few who'd pick up the phone? Does their relationship not benefit both of them, especially when they tour together (tho mostly "the mouth", on balance)...?

Thanks for giving me the choice, i think its clear which path ive chosen for now.

Oh my God....

Talk about over analyzing their friendship.


Baz actually has talked to and spent time with Axl during the last year. That's more than you can say about some of these self appointed GN'R experts that like to pass themselves of as experts in the media.

He also got Axl to sing on his album. Something nobody else has managed to do recently.





/jarmo

Yeah, why not chose the most improbable path? :P

Just try to check the Occam's Razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_Razor) theory. It would explain a lot.

Why would Axl let Bach hear the new material and even sing in one song if they weren't really friends?  ::)

and the last year is the only year that counts, is it...?

You, however, are bastardising the theory by using a very compressed, even heavily edited form of it.

Do'nt. You'll come unstuck.

No shit? Just because you want. ::)

You rather believe in a conspiracy theory about Axl n' Baz friendship than the most obvious truth. Cool for you, whatever makes you happy.

You're the one who choses to whine about Baz not being a friend, not me.


Look at the fucking facts for once.

It's pretty obvious that he's been in contact with Axl.






/jarmo

check gunsnroses com.
and remember, the delay is solely bumble's fault.
axl sent joke messages to baz while he and ron were at a radio show.

Where did i say he had not been...?

Again, you deliberately dont bother to address the point. But i expect no better.

Because you have no point....

It's just the usual "he doesn't know" shit that I expect to see from certain people.

You seem like one of those unhappy fans who chose to believe people who haven't had any contact with Axl in years or decades.  ::)




/jarmo

Well, yes, if it's up-to-date info you're looking for your best bet is to ask the person who's had recent contact with the subject.

BTW, thanks for posting the transcript, Jarmo, good to see that Baz is still as enthusiastic as ever.  :D

At this point, it would be an even more egregious act to Baz than to fans if Axl and GNR do not put out this record in 2008. It could do some serious damage to any credibility that Baz has, while we fans did not make publicly bold statements like this at the behest of Axl or anybody else involved.

I would hate to see this new GNR music end up where "The Perfect Crime" UYI Tour Video Tape is.

MNW

Its a whole different thing now. A way bigger project, a new situation and a different stage - the final one, lets hope. :)

Ah! and there you get the point! Those people were not, for the most part, lying about their experiences, even tho those experiences were a while ago. Now, i may take that on faith, but you do the same with anything motor-mouth says.

Who exactly are these 'other people' that have been quoted on these issues that have actually been in contact with the band within the past year besides Baz??  ???

Which is why baz should shut up. he risks, mainly because of someone else's fuck up, being seen as even more of a berk by people like me.

No one. its everyone else whose hung up on THE LAST YEAR, not me.

I don't think he gives a fuck what people like you think of him to be honest...


The funny thing with people like you is that you chose to listen to people who have no clue and when somebody who has a clue says something, he/she should shut up so he/she doesn't look bad if things change.  :rofl:




Of course!  ::)

It's fun to focus on things that happened years ago isn't it?

People who've had no participation with what's going on now really are the people who know best.... Right....


So keep trying to discredit Baz because of your personal bias. It's pretty amusing.  : ok:


You're so predictable.

Everybody who's still in contact with Axl/GN'R are obviously not telling the truth and they're just ass kissers! While people who've never been in the same room with Axl or the band in the last few years are the ones who know what's going on!

It's amusing how this only works one way. The people who still are friends with Axl are automatically not credible because of the association, but those who aren't friends, aren't automatically disqualified as credible for having an agenda or being bitter. Weird.

Former associates are always telling the truth...  Surely there can't be any kind of bitterness involved..... ::)




/jarmo

I dont fully agree with jarmos stance on things all the time but on the points above im 100% with you.

Why people dismiss Baz as not being in the know is beyond me, Axl recorded with the guy ffs and they communicate daily. Why would Axl lie to Baz about the status of CD what would Baz gain from constantly lying about CD. Axl has been pretty quick to issue cease and desist letters im sure that if this was info taht was incorrect then BAz may well be on the end of one of these letters or a phone call / text from Axl telling him to cool it.

Mysteron has confirmed that the discussions are still ongoing but there are pretty cool things arranged once these discussions have been agreed this to me feels like there could be some headway and that there will be a release this year if not early 09.

Jarmo your work here is appreciated.

again - for the hard of thinking and reading (not splng and typng lk me) - all ive ever said is he should shut the fuck up about it as he has no control and whether hes heard it is totally irelevant.

Now, if you want to have a wider debate (i dont and wont) about whaths happenned over the last several years and how we got here, many people would need to be heard, and baz would be the least of them.

i just want him to shut his fuckin mouth. simple as. i mean, so hes heard it and knows its coming...what does that actually mean, and how reliable is it?

I choose to answer that one way, and you choose another. thats fine. jsut remember its totally subjective.

Because even band members have commented in the past, and they should shut up too, for all thats come of their words. Thing is, they do stay quiet mostly. baz doesnt.

here, ill just remind peole of the whole Better+advert thing.

Or you just shouldn't read? none of your business is it?


what about 2006?

I like the  'GNR is bigger than rock' bit. well said baz.


I think so, judging from tusk and dreams, the only fleetwood mac songs I know. :hihi:
according to wiki.
Fleetwood Mac are an influential and commercially successful rock band formed in 1967 who have had high turnover of personnel and varied levels of success. From the band's inception through the end of 1974, no incarnation of Fleetwood Mac lasted as much as two years.
you wanna some non British for change.

the three bands are all british btw.

ppbebe - erm...WHAT?!

It's only irrelevant to those who like to repeat the "it's not done" line.

Maybe you don't want to hear that it's done and the hold up isn't due to Axl?




Like the band themselves.





Ask yourself this: Why do you need to question the reliability of somebody who's obviously been on tour with GN'R in 2006 and 2007 and who keeps in touch with Axl?





Funny how you just wish people to shut up and yet you know for a fact that to get the full picture, these same people should be the ones to do most of the talking.


If it bothers you, don't read it.

You know, don't read it and shut up!   : ok:




/jarmo

i think baz is only tryin to help.giving us something more then nothing really.it's a plus that baz cares enough to give this info.he could just not say anything and yet he opens up.good for him,thankz baz !

whether he or band member should shut the fuck up or not is the business of him and the band not yours.

On the top of that, we like hearing them. If you don't, who cares.
just quit checking them.

again, you miss the point. I believe its coming and is finished. no, i dont entirely believe axl isnt the hold up, but i dont think its all him.

i only wish people would shut up because they have nothing more to say than "its coming".

well, ok. good. deadpan smiley here.

He said a bit more than that....

But carry on wishing for those few who do know what's going on to shut up.



/jarmo

right. baz saying something, especially something nice about the record(s) is better than having no infos/statements at all. the mysteron posts also make me optimistic again. but what's with all this talk about who's to blame for cd not being released already? axl's in negotiations with the record company. it's not as simple as: "hey, axl doesn't put out the record. maybe it's not even finished" or "it's only about the record company." two parties are discussing things and strategies for a proper and succesfull release. sure it's sad that this again takes so much time. but i wouldn't "blame" anyone. it's just what the circumstances are.

no matter what someone will allways complain.it's just the way it goes.but has anyone thought to thank any of these people.for giving there time for us.or was that way too much to handle.i only hope people learn to appreciate things more.it really keeps the doors open for a release of cd.it keeps the hope alive.don't you get it yet ?

and my point is, no, it isnt better.

jarmo, he didnt say more than that - or if he did please enlighten me.

hes heard it. hes on it. hes touring in the summer with some band who may/not be gnr.

big deal. excuse me while i cream myself.

i keep gettin told they aint doin this for me, and that its none o my business.

Thank 'em? FUCK 'EM!

maybe if axl did say more it would have more impact.i can't say how much that would help matters out.if you don't like it well then.don't know what ta tell ya.

but talking about the record (as baz does) doesn't do any harm, does it? you may be annoyed by baz. alright. but what's the major problem? sorry, i don't get it.

If you can't see that he said more than "it's coming", maybe the problems isn't Baz, it's you?



/jarmo

do you read bas comments as accusing anyone? IMO he's doing exactly what you would do. talking about the circumstances from his point of view.

and so many business people fighting over the album----- does this sound like a record company?

When you promote a record (or a movie, or a book, or whatever) you keep doing interviews for months. And you pretty much answer the same questions too, so its only natural to have the same answers.

Anyways, Baz was nice enough to keep us updated with this "business people fighting over it" on Chinese Democracy. He could not say anything about GNR, but he wanted to do so. Isn't anyone business but his what he should or shouldn't do, period.

baz's intention (from my point of view) was not to bash/accuse anyone. it was to defend axl, get some things straight and show his enthusiasm about the songs he heard. that's fine. and yes, baz refers to the "circumstances": people fighting over the record. but one of those fighters has to be axl (or his management). that's all i'm saying. and you're right: there's prob. more than just 2 parties involved. by the way, it is hard for me to answer to your post, coz originally i was not refering to baz in my comment.

ok, he also said business people are fighting over it. anything else? do you fancy being informative and not just obtuse...?

those business people will, of course (as has been said) be instructing lawyers. isnt axl also a business personn with lawyers?

what im saying here is, its unlikely imo that hes jsut habded it over and is taking no further interest.

notice here, before you jump in again, jarmo, that im acknowledging the negative effects of other people and not just axl.

please notice that.

please.

i have never been an unqualified axl hater. nor am i an unqualified axl lover. its called nuance. just like in that letter from axl, which was so well written (no, i do actually mean that).

and thats quite correct, i just dont like him and think he should shut up, and thats actually all ive ever said. im doin nothin more or less than baz bashin, and have never pretended otherwise.

I can't see only two parties as so many business people fighting over an album.

At least you're honest so now we know not to take your posts in this thread seriously.


You hate the guy, for some reason which you haven't explained, and wish he'd shut up.

But instead of just ignoring the thread, you spend a lot of time trying to stir up some shit.





/jarmo

Anytime Baz wants to talk, I'll listen.  Thanks for getting the word out Baz.

To get back to the point of the thread, I always love hearing what Baz says about the album.

Everyone who has heard it has said that it's "totally incredible" which gets me excited. Most of these people are tight with GNR and obviously know the incredible level of talent of the older songs and performances, so that's saying a lot. It's not empty praise. And while they are unfinished, the demos definitely provide that insight. Awesome lyrics by Axl and great potential.

It's like when your making cookies. You spend a lot of time gathering the right ingredients and want to make something really awesome. Making something great whether that's cookies or good music is always a tremendous risk. Some people judge too hastily and say "oh, I don't think I'm going to like that" or "those aren't the ingredients I like in my cookies", however if you do things right, preheat your oven, work on the cookies with love and care, and give them the right amount of time to bake, they come out perfect.

I could only ask Axl to not blame us for wanting to eat the dough before the cookies are done.  :P

Well it's not like these people are going to come out and say that it doesn't sound good, that it's been a waste of a decade.  This is even more true if they're so called "tight" with GNR.  People who have heard the album are associated with GNR so I wouldn't take what they say too seriously.

I'd rather be excited and get let down than remain a jaded, desponded skeptic my whole life. But hey that's me.

What's that supposed to mean?  I said I wouldn't take what they say too seriously because it's not like they're gonna say it's a letdown.  Hopefully it's great, but I wouldn't get my hopes up just because of comments that are almost certainly biased in some way.  I'd rather be a realist, and not a dumbass, but hey that just me!

aka... :D beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

Realist?

Hahaha.


Yeah, I expect all future albums by my favorite artists to suck! Does that make me a realist?  ::)





/jarmo

When did I say I expected that??? I said I wouldn't get too excited based on people who have commented on the album so far... Seeing as how they would never say it wasn't good.  That doesn't mean that they're not telling the truth, i hope they are, but you have to remain a little objective about these things.  Especially at this time.  I should have known even the acknowledement that some things out of the GNR camp should be taken with a grain of salt would get your panties in a bunch!

In most cases, artists who are releasing a new album say it's great or the best album they ever made.


Personally as I've seen the band perform some new songs live as well as reading comments from people like Baz, I tend to believe it'll be great. In addition, I know the people involved are very talented.

Maybe I'm a dumb ass unlike you.  :rofl:




/jarmo

Alright, thanks for proving my point.  I've also seen the new songs live and read all the comments about them.  The new songs were pretty good, but obviously didn't generate the same response as the older songs.  This is probably to be expected, but at the same time this new album and the new songs have been worked on for years upon years, so you find yourself in the position of expecting a little more.  Or atleast that's how I felt, which most people seemed to agree with, or atleast at the three concerts I went to.  Oh and as far as u being the dumbass and not me...U said it!

I didn't particularly mean it personally, so don't take it that way.

There is a difference between being unbiased and a "realist". Personally I don't care for "realists". They usually sit back, arms folded, and judge people to the point of inactivity. Instead of picking a side they just sit back and point out other peoples shortcomings without examining their own lives. Instead of being critical and honest, they become cynical and desponded. There are certainly enough of those in GNR forums. I'm not lumping you into such a category, but merely pointing out why I don't care to talk to the negative jaded types.

But yes, sometimes people close to a project or the people involved can see it through their own lens. I don't think thats the case. Not everyone near this project are people pleasers it seems. I seem to remember Axl and Tommy having a little tiff at the beginning of the 2006 tour. But they worked it out. It seems to me that Axl was making a record that he was proud of. You don't go out there and say "oh hey, what can I do to please this person or this person....", you go out and you make something you can be happy with. As an artist you want to do your best. You aren't fighting to get X amount of record sales or critical acclaim. You're fighting yourself, that voice in your head who is saying that it's not good enough. And if Axl is happy with it, using his prior records as a basis, I have no other reason to believe that the album will be anything less than incredible. What Baz says reaffirms this, not to mention others. And the record is done. Finished. And to me, that's a very encouraging thought.

But the jaded person says, "oh well, this album will never live up to expectations". But in truth, it has nothing to do with the album's content. It has to do with your refusal to accept the possibility of it being great. Arms folded, judging, jaded. Maybe something comes along and cracks that wall that was built up long ago. It's like, "hey...why try to fall in love....I'm a realist...I'll probably get hurt again". Can you define love? Can you nail it down? Can you define good art? Can you say: oh, this is good art...do that? No, otherwise everyone else would be doing it. It takes a tremendous amount of time and hardwork and most people aren't willing to put in the time.

But me, a person who looks forward to the album and thinks that will it will be great, such "realists" will label me as a dreamer. A head-in-the-clouds type who doesn't know how the world works. Suddenly, I'm the ridiculous one? Ha.

Exactly the reaction most artists who play unreleased songs gets....

Oh, and it happened in 1991 too.





Yeah I did.

I just don't think a fan who's excited about GN'R is a dumb ass. I think people who put those fans down on a fan site are....



/jarmo

here here

keep spouting off the SAME unsubstantiated BS, great PR for G N R!

Well you said it not me.  To clarify, I hope this album is fucking amazing and lives up to all of the hype!  With that said, not agreeing with the way its release ( or non release in this case) has been handled or acknowledging that people close to GNR obviously are only going to say positive things about the quality of the record doesn't make me a negative jaded type.  It makes me the honest and open type! The kind of behavior that I wish would be undertaken by whoever is behind the scenes in charge of releasing this album.  That's all i ask.  I mean how hard would it be for Axl Rose to come out with a statement on what's going on or what the future plans are?? I mean honestly, what would this take him 20 minutes?  He doesn't "owe" his fans anything, but is that too much to ask??  Especially seeing as how it's been over a year since his last statement, which didn't guarantee, but made it seem like the record was coming out in 2007.

Let's see, I might be out of line here, but I (personally, not speaking on behalf of the band, Younggunner, Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy) think that the plan is to release the album





/jarmo

Well that's been the fucking plan for 8+ years.  So am I out of line here by saying that they might consider getting a new fucking plan!!!  Or more effective tactics to complete that plan. What's your clever little response going to be this time??

You're the one who asked a stupid question.

I thought you were a realist and not a dumb ass....  :P



Sure, it's been the plan for a while but the album wasn't 100% done years ago, now was it?

You're offering answers to problems you have no fucking clue about. Which is very nice of you, but pretty fucking useless.


What happened to the realist? If you're such a realist, shouldn't you be aware that in the real world, things don't always go according to plan?

You're the realist who claims to look at things from a rational point of view.  Why is it that with your kind of people, that point of view always means that you have to side against the band you claim to support?

You guys have your own little dictionary.

Rational person, objective, realist = everything the band says is a lie and nobody from the band's camp has ever told the truth.
Fan = put down the band and other fans, ridicule them on all possible occasions.
Real fans = people who go to fan sites to post shit about how much that band sucks and who know what's best for the band.
Tentative = a promise
Set list = something that's up to me to decide even if I'm not at the show in question.




/jarmo

you must get really tired jarmo - constantly looking for a route around passed the point.

Oh and one other thing.  It seems like a lot of people on here think that Axl is getting screwed over somehow and that's why it's not being released yet.  I think you're probably wrong.  I read the Playboy interview with David Geffen last night (he's the gay billionaire founder of Geffen Records) and it was from 1994.  In it he talked about the One in a Million controversy and Axl's choice to include the Charles Manson song on an album.  Both times he was told by bandmembers and Geffen himself that it would cause him unneeded controversy and set back, but for some reason he was adamant on releasing those songs anyway.  I'm a big fan of Axl, but stories like those don't paint a picture of that great of a decision maker.  I wouldn't be suprised if him getting in his own way is the main reason for all of the delays,etc..  Make of that what you will.

No, not really. I've been there before.


I remember in 1991. I was excited about the fact that the band were finishing an album and getting ready to release it. I was expecting it to be great.

I didn't expect it to be bad....


Same goes for 2008.

I guess I'm not a realist.  :'(


Aren't you done in this thread? We know you hate Baz and you don't want to hear what he has to say.





Hey, that's a new interview you found! 1994! Cool!


You know what it speaks volumes of? Integrity. Doing what you think is right instead of doing what others tell you to do.

It's not your album, it's his. Of course he has the fucking right to make sure everything is the way he intends them to be.

He doesn't owe you shit!

So stop acting like it.





/jarmo

Hey, that's a new interview you found! 1994! Cool!


You know what it speaks volumes of? Integrity. Doing what you think is right instead of doing what others tell you to do.

It's not your album, it's his. Of course he has the fucking right to make sure everything is the way he intends them to be.

He doesn't owe you shit!

So stop acting like it.

/jarmo
[/quote]


Well Axl hasn't released a new original album for 17 years, that's very cool too! This interview was 3 years after that and with a guy who is considered by many to be the smartest man in hollywood.  Oh and I wouldn't bring up integrity with this argument. You want me to believe that Axl's integrity of doing what was "right" was to release a song that appeared to be bashing gays, black, and immigrants and another song thats royalites at first (later it was changed) went to Charles Manson who was responsable for numerous people's deaths??  He doesn't owe me shit and I don't owe him shit, but that doesn't mean I can't have an honest opinion about what is going on with my favorite band.  Just cause Axl Rose or Guns N Roses has fucked up and I call them on it, doesn't mean I don't think the band's amazing, it just means you're honest enough to admit when something is fucked up.  Something that you apparently are incapable of...pull the wool down and take a look at the "reality" of the situation bud!

Yeah, it's not up to you or me to decide when he has to release albums. :)

The sooner this idea makes it's way into your head and you start thinking about how ridiculous it is to whine about it, you'll feel a lot better.   ;)




Then you don't know what integrity is I'm afraid....

He learned pretty fast that people only saw One In A Million as a theme song for close minded racist fucks.




Another one who has to try to insult me because he thinks he's such a realistic / objective fan.

 :-*


You know what the REAL difference is?

I'm aware that things haven't gone as planned, just like you. But unlike you, I'm open minded and understand that everything has happened for a reason or reasons.

And no, it's not just "because it's Axl". That's your easy answers to everything. That and "put out the album!".


For a realist, you sure as hell live in a simple world where everything goes according to plan and your wishes seem to be granted......



By the way, the guy whose name is in this thread's subject actually told Axl something like "you should put it out".....  Your route of problem solving has been tried already. ;)



/jarmo

"He learned pretty fast that people only saw One In A Million as a theme song for close minded racist fucks."  Oh so Axl "learned" this really fast, what the fuck do you think David Geffen and the other bandmembers told him would happen?? Exactly that, but he did it anyway, and according to later interviews seemed to regret it.  Also, the "it's Axl" arguement has more ground to stand on then the argument that it's not his fault the album hasn't been released. It's pretty much common knowledge that he wanted to make Guns N Roses his own thing, which is why he acquired the rights under somewhat "shady" circumstances.  Anyways, this means that what happens is his decision, everyone else in the band is a hired gun.  He got what he wanted, and hasn't been able to deliver a new album of material since.  Who else is there to blame?? I'm not saying it wasn't admirable of him to try and make something great and release it to the public and once again reclaim the rock crown, i actually like Axl Rose a lot for the balls to try and do it.  But up until this point he hasn't been able to do it, and I don't agree with the way he's kept his loyal fans in the dark all of these years. That's all.,

One in a Million is one of the top five songs Axl ever wrote in my opinion. I'm glad he put it out.  : ok:

I think he put too much faith in people.

But still, it's about integrity. He put out the song anyway.




Yeah sure. If it wasn't Axl, he could've put out the Snakepit's first album under the GN'R name and you'd be all delighted with GN'R songs like "Be The Ball".





Some of us are more loyal than others it seems.  :P


No, not everything is his decision. If you are a realist you'd understand that. For example, he doesn't just sit and call up promoters to book gigs.




His loyal fans know what GN'R is about and don't try to change it just because it fits their needs.



Now you're trying to turn this into a Dead Horse topic, so I suggest you continue in the right section where people like you are free to whine.  : ok:




/jarmo

It is really disheartening sometimes seeing all these arguments between fans. We're supposed to be supporting each other and supporting the band at this time.

As for Baz - We should be great-ful that there is someone out there who keeps us in the loop about CD. There's no reason for anybody to criticize him or  what he says for any reasons because he is not an official spokesperson of any sort - he's just sharing some details with us, because he's just as much a fan of Axl we are, and he's as eager as us for the album to come out.

People don't often realize that Baz is a rock n' roll fan just like us.

He gets excited too.





/jarmo

A lot of my friends would probably like it if i would talk about GNR a little less too...

So Baz, i totally understand. ;D

Everytime he says something encouraging, i get excited, and i repeat it.

I agree and liking the song doesn't make one a radical or racist... rap artists release much more controversial material all the time but no one gives a shit. 

Songs like One in Million and Look At Game Girl are part of what makes them a legendary & "dangerous" band.

You can't expect Axl to censor his music so the dumbest of people won't have trouble understanding.   :peace:

One thing I disagree with is the notion that Axl Rose acquired the rights to use the band's name under "shady" circumstances.  He came right out and asked for it and lawyers for him, Slash and Duff worked it out.  There was nothing shady about it.  Whether or not he should've felt it was appropriate to ask that question is another thing entirely.

Ali

Every. Fucking. Thread. Every thread turns into a shitstorm.

Maybe closing the forum until the album comes out will save Jarmo a lot of cash and ulcers.

Why let one bad apple spoil the whole damn bunch?

Some of us love talking about the band, tour experiences, the new songs, and looking forward to the albums, some don't. And it's pretty clear they can go elsewhere and that's why I'm here. I choose not to hang around negative people. I'd rather talk about, promote, and discuss what I'm about and what I believe in as a person rather than what I don't. :)

Very well said, Ali. This is just a rumor that people keep stating as fact, but nobody ever had any proof on this. Im always asking how could it be possible to blackmail someone about this and still has any validation after all those years.

From what I read on that Geffen lawsuit about the GH album, the other members had a partnership with Axl but declined to continue, leaving all the rights and costs of the next album (rehearsals, gear rent and studios) to Axl.

I really hope things change around here for the best once things get rolling and the album eventually surfaces.

Sure it's just a forum, but all the negativity around here sucks. Personally I come here to take a break from work and whatever else and think and talk about something I like and that interests me.  I don't like coming here and finding myself getting worked up about more arguments and frustration.

People can certainly discuss reasons as to whats holding up the album or what the situation is or whatever, but remember that we don't really know anything, even if we've heard it from a close source like Baz, hence people shouldn't get too defensive or critical because we don't know the true story.

It was pretty much two people whining. One of which confessed that he hates Baz....

That kind of people will always feel unwelcome here because this place isn't meant to be for them. 

:)



/jarmo

That whole album is brilliant ... absolutely brilliant; a thinking mans work of art.

As someone else alluded too, if artists censor their work, the world would be without some of it's greatest masterpieces.

I agree. Artists' art is a form of expression. You can't censor that. If it's censored...then it's no longer their own.

I would be delighted with "Be The Ball" as much as I am with songs like "Rhyad And The Bedouins" and "Silkworms". Cause It's all "great" stuff : ok:

"Rhyad And The Bedouins" and "Silkworms" will not be on CD! They might be on the sequels of CD but their versions will be completely re-worked from what we heard in 2001-2002 and kick the shit out of any Snakepit or VR song.

From what I remember, an old poster here met Axl and he apparently said that "Silkworms" had been worked into another song.

As for "Rhiad..", I'm not sure if that will ever turn up, but that song definitely has alot of potential. The main guitar riff of the song is killer. I'm personally a great fan. And the title is unique too.

If I recall, however, I think a few people reported hearing the band (minus Axl) rehearsing it ("Rhiad") at a few locations during the last tour?

I met Pitman over a year ago and asked him about Silkworms. He said (as of then) that it will be on the second or third album. He also said that the 2001 version sucked and the one on the album is way better and rocks really really hard.
I liked the 2001 version, so am really excited to hear the album one....but it may take a while. ;)

The guys from EMS were the ones who said that Axl said that the had been reworked and no longer called 'Silkworms' and that it was Axl's lady's favorite song.
Take that for what it's worth.

Nice one, thanks for that info.

You can hear the potential in the live versions from Rio, etc, but they did sound very incomplete back then.

sry I missed this post yeaterday.  :P

I agree.
To fighting over something is to argue over it. about what? Maybe there're many different opinions on how it should be promoted. maybe there're many companies that want to take part in it.

Net People act as if they know exactly what the negotiations are about when in reality, like baz says, a fat lot they know.

actually with other lyrics, some re-arrangements and Axl's voice on it that song "Be The Ball" could be some goody and better than stuff like "Bad Apples", same goes for some other Snakepit 1st album songs IMO. add that Axl wanted some of the Snakepit stuff "back" when finding out slash was using it for the 1st Snakepit release, there is a video interview about this.

but back to the topic: yes, Axl surely is still getting ready to put the album out : ok:

Funny how you decide to leave out the mention where Axl said Slash didn't wanna work harder... So, it's not really possible to change the songs too much if the other person isn't into changing them.  :)


But CD has nothing to do with Slash. 


There are people in the band who aren't afraid to work hard and experiment. : ok:






/jarmo

Well sortly after that information came out, Eat My Silkworms  was dissolved and it's former community members  have not bothered us since. I take it as it is true because the cult worshiped Pitman and the song.

there's a pic of axl holding a sign that says eat my silkworms though

There isn't a recording of the convo tho.  :P

uhm, please? my post was a reply on your "Be the Ball" bashing and my post included my personal thoughts -1st snakepit album- about re-arrangements, new lyrics and Axl's voice in it which dont have much or anything to do with Slash working harder IMO. lyrics and Axl's voice would have been purely "Axl's work" and (re-)arrangements could be 1man's up to the whole band's work in general so i dont get your reply anyway (which off course was some expected Axl > Slash-reply). the point is that the 1st Snakepit album COULD have been a good GN'R record....with some other arrangements, Axl's voice and Axl's lyrics on. i added the video interview cause this is some rare uncommon proof for the fact that Axl really had interest in some of the 1st snakepit album songs/song parts.
also i do think that for example IRS without Axl's voice is a boring simple song but the way axl sings on it makes it a very good one...that could have worked before, again: IMO!
i hope to be able to buy a real physically CD and hope the man + business can work that out this year.

I disagree.  : ok:

I simply think that re-arranging a song has a lot to do with getting the rest of the band work on that piece of music.

Unless you just wanna take a recording and cut it up in Pro Tools or something...




/jarmo

but you have to agree on the voice and the lyrics which were 2 of my 3 points in the post?
and many bands write music first then put lyrics on top and re-arrange mostly only the song structure like...longer verse, bridge some later, chorus 4time not 2times, etc.
it also would help a lot having the whole band in the same rehearsal place at the same time.
also Civil War drum pars were kinda "pro tooled"...and to me its an outstanding song. yes, this developped all off topic but could make an interesting single topic.

to be kind, the best snakepit has to offer as far as gnr worthy material would be a riff here or there and an entire new song would have to be built around it.  For snakepit it's cool.  For gnr....... it is in no way good enough.  I'd say the same about VR as well. 

Yeah, I agree that Axl has an amazing voice and writes great lyrics.

I also think that since lyrics often come last (not always though), you might have to get "excited" about a song in order to write lyrics to it. So, if you feel indifferent about a piece, then it might not go anywhere. Or if the rest of the band doesn't get "excited" about your suggestions for re-arrangements, things might grind to a halt....


I think there are pieces/songs on many ex-member albums that could've been better if GN'R had worked on them.



I agree. That's why I think the whole re-arrangement idea involves a bit more work...





/jarmo

thats why i also came up with IRS instrumentally/no vocals......besides the bucket solo i cant see any "kick-ass" riffs, outstanding arrangements or some superior song structure or music parts in there. if this no-vocals-version would have been played to you first without knowing the vocal version i would bet about 99,9% gnr fans would have skipped it and rated it kinda "school band"/"garage band"-crap. on this simple song its mostly Axl's voice which makes it special......and thats why i question the snakepit 1st album stuff could have been a really good GN'R record, and IMO without too much re-arrangements.

we're still off-topic  :hihi:

you must have meant  'the real fans' by gnr fans.

IRS is a more surfacy and accessable song compared to others, especially "There Was A Time".

However, fact remains, what we heard were demos. What we heard on tour was much more densely layered, organic, and raw. Take for example the IRS performance at Rock am Ring or one of the new ones like the Budokan. The song was much stronger and had a great feeling to it, even if it still is a more surfacy/accessable type song. And I'm not mentioning Tommy's really cool Krist Novoselic-esque bass line. So don't judge too hastily on the demos Limmy. But you're free to your opinion.  :smoking:

So, Limulus, I know what you're talking about, but at the same time I disagree. The beginning riff is piercing and great. And the way the note is held (it's hard to explain, but the duwwrrrwrrrrr) is really awesome. Both IRS and Better have great hooks, imo, even if they lack the complexity of "There Was A Time" or "Madagascar".

Madagascar is complex with all that layers, but the structure is kinda simple (same with IRS).

But talking about IRS, since that awful radio recording of the Trunk's show, I always loved the guitar work on the calm intersections. Robin's slides gave the song a really modern sound.

And mrbucketfoot, I strongly disagree with Better lacking complexity. If one thing, its far more complex than TWAT (structure, layers, tempo and tone changes).

I really like all the new songs...but IRS doesn't do much for me, I just don't think it is such a great song, it has been that way since I first heard it. To me it lacks that one thing to push it over the edge. Maybe it is kick ass live unfortunatley but I haven't had the chance to see GNR live since '93. So get your asses to South America and prove me wrong

It's not that it lacks complexity, it's just more mainstream. The riff is really simple (yet awesome) and then it does get more complex during the breakdown (which I love... the drums there are incredible and coupled with the Pitman 'metldown', oh lawd it's a sassy song).

I wouldn't say its simple.. Maybe it gives you this impression because its basically the same melody as the vocals, but Axl wrote the lyrics AFTER the instrumental, as he said himself on one of the Hammerstein gigs. Also, once you learn how to play the riff, you see it's far from simple and obvious as it deals with harmonics and distortion using two strings notes.  :)

Are you talking about the demo(s) or the live version?

From what I heard on all demos, the '99 version was the one who was closer to a finished sound IMO. The quality of the recording is bad, but I think the mix was alright and it leads to a finished intention.

Also, using a good headphones (I mean really good, not one of those cheap-ass sets) makes the 2007 demos and live bootlegs sounding HUGE.

baz loves IRS doesn't he? (sorta back to the topic.... ;D)
chriskon you should check some boots of the last tour...altho seeing is believing and no recording would come close to a real live experience.

axl mentions the snakepit album in RS 1999 interview.

"Loder: Do you think that stuff can be done in that old sort of [GN'R] style, that blues-based style, or do you think that's just over?
Rose: No, no, I don't think any style of music's over. I mean, look at [Lou Bega's] "Mambo #5."
Loder: True.
Rose: You could find ways to blend all kind of things. It really just takes the right song. I don't personally believe that was the interest of Guns or Slash, I don't believe the right song was the interest. I mean, what people don't know is, the [Slash's] Snakepit album, that is the Guns N' Roses album. I just wouldn't do it.
Loder: Really?
Rose: Oh, yeah! Duff walked out on it, and I walked out on it, because I wasn't allowed to be any part of it. It's like, "No, you do this, that's how it is." And I didn't believe in it. I thought that there were riffs and parts and some ideas, I thought, that needed to be developed. I had no problem working on it, or working with it, but you know, as is, I think I'm with the public on that one."

donno about this album but I personally take an instrumental GNR demo over any VR song with or without vocals at anytime. I wonder what the real fans would say about, if any, non vocal version of rocket queen or WTTJ.

Considering part of the main pull for those tunes is the incredible riffs etc ... I'd say they'd like them.  I love the new GnR songs but none of them have memorable riffs comparable to Jungle or Rocket Queen ...

Agreed... Jungle and Rocket Queen both have incredible grooves that I haven't heard from a new song yet... well, maybe Chinese Democracy. And the vocal/guitar "duet" verses on TWAT is something unique in itself that I like just as much as a good running groove.

You can listen to a couple measures of WTTJ and know immediately what it is based on that groove. Same with the first half of Rocket Queen. But listen to a couple measures of Better, Madagascar, or IRS and it is a struggle to tell them apart (ok, maybe not for any of us here). That isn't bad necessarily.... thanks particularly to the vocal mix, and on a large start-to-end thing they accomplish a whole lot, but it doesn't have that groove...

I disagree completely.  For one thing, most of the new songs we've heard are ballads, and piano/synthesizer driven ones at that, so they aren't by nature going to be guitar riff-driven like a song off Appetite.  Despite that, I can listen to one measure of "Better" or "Chinese Democracy" and know exactly what it is as much as I can with any other GN'R song.  I could right away.  Another thing is that these new songs are not in the same blues-based vein as the old material.  The new material embraces different influences, and while it's still melodic hard rock, it's not an apples to apples comparison with the old material.

Ali

You disagree, and go on to further my point? ;)

ok, not quite. But what you are saying is similar to what I was thinking. A lot of UYI doesn't have those AFD guitar grooves, either... but I like it all the same.

TWAT "Yes, that is GNR for sure"
Better "WTF was that insanity? GNR? Sweet!"

The blues-driven stuff is what I personally identify GNR with, and I would prefer that to be the core. I certainly don't mind excursions into other territory... that is what I like about UYI.

What you said is tru... a lot of what we have heard are ballads... I hope / expect that there is a lot more than that!

"Better" is the best new song BY FAR! The live version isn't that great. I dont like it. But the actual leaked song blows me away. If that's BucketHead on lead guitar on that song, He's awsome. "IRS" & "TWAT" are just ok , not epic in any way. I'm looking forward to hearing all the songs as a Whole, If it ever comes out........who knows?

In the interests of full disclosure I present the following:

According to Axl (in a direct reference to Slash's work habits), and I quote verbatim, "I think it is time for the resident workaholic to strut his Les Paul. Caught off guard but always ready, ladies and gentlemen Mr. Slash" as he introduced him at Rock in Rio 1. Coming directly from Axl's lips in an unsolicited manner like that would seem to indicate lack of drive and work ethic are not a problem he experienced with Slash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpeWI8pyuKc


How can someone be both the band's "resident workaholic" and the "band member who didn't want to work hard" in the eyes of the very same person who is responsible for both comments?

4 years can do a lot to a person.    stating the obvious, I know.. but when you wear the slash blinders and ask stupid questions, expect a stupid answer.

Jim Bob a few people here should really read your signature and then make the choice of whether to post on this forum or not...
it would filter out alot of pointless and crap arguments...

It has nothing to do with Slash blinders. I am just pointing out that Slash being lazy probably was about the best talking point Axl could come up with at the time to explain his departure. There were much bigger issues between the 2 than that, but at least it was a plausible scenario to run with given the hoard of media coverage it was getting at the time.

Look at what Axl said about Robin after he left the first time in the Loder interview, "Rose: [continuing] ... but at the same time, it's turned out to be a good thing. We've been able to push some of the guitar parts a step farther, that had he been here, it's not something that would have been considered, and I wouldn't have been rude enough to attempt to do that. Robin did a great job, but we've been able to up the ante a little bit."

Now much like the Slash situation when he left, Axl has to keep the public face that it isn't really a big deal. He in no uncertain terms labeled Finck a mediocre guitarist who couldn't get to that higher level. Just like Slash wasn't working to get to that next level. The "taking the recording to the next level" argument was levied against Bucket when he left to.

The premise of my point has zero to do with Slash. It has to do with the "if Axl said it, it is 100% true to the letter." Sometimes a little reading through the lines is required, even though that is frowned upon in some circles.

Axl and Slash split up because they were no longer compatible for whatever reason, not over his refusal to work on an album. That may have been the story the PR guys decided to go with to explain it, but I have a bridge to sell anyone who believes that was really the cause of the great schism.

I would hope that for the sake of consistensy at least the same group that use the "lazyness" credo in regard to Slash because Axl said so are as steadfast to remind others that Robin is a mediocre and limited player that was holding the guitars back according to Axl. He made that comment to.

The important thing to take away from these examples is that Axl is worried about making numero uno look good, which is what all people do. That also means he is not above exaggerating or embellishing if it acheives whatever the goal is the way he did in diminshing the effect losing Slash,Robin, Bucket would have on GNR when it came time to talk about them in the press.

See Jim Bob, questioning Axl's version of events does not automatically constitute "Slash blinders". He did the same thing to Robin as I layed out, so I guess I have Finck blinders to. I guess that also means I am wearing a KFC bucket now because Bucket was given the same sermon as those 2 in terms of how they were holding Axl back from the next level.

What I established is not Slash blinders but a familiar pattern of events upon the departure of GNR lead guitarists, and that to project Axl's rational on to Slash as though it were fact would require doing the same to Robin; yet somehow I don't think we will be seeing posts every other day talking about how his playing has really held back the band as Axl claimed.

jesus.. was that really worth writing a fucking book?  i don't come here to read long essays dude.    you make a lot of assumptions and speculation.    clueless.

Jim Bob: that "book" owned you. as simple as that! good read, thanks!

Nice post. I like to come hear to read well written, thoughtful comments. It doesnt matter to me if they are a mighty 10 paragraphs long "book".
I don't come to read  inane mutterings from illiterate hillbillys.

You really shouldn't post things you have no first hand information about as facts.

That's your theory. Not a fact.

As far as I can tell, the only thing you proved was that Axl wouldn't do certain things to his current lead guitarists. Like disrespect them. So when they left, he got an opportunity to try something different without disrespecting them.

It's like having a great goalie in your team, but then you just decide to try the new one while the ordinary one is playing the season of his life instead of bringing in the new one after the old one has been traded away/retired.


As I said, this has nothing to do with Slash.






/jarmo

but back to topic I guess.

If he's ready to put it out, well Say it...
Axl's been ready to put it out several times over the years.
I do think it's finished and everything about it has been finished but some small stuff not relating to the album are putting things on hold.

your arguments aren`t really convincing to me. axl never implied, that robin was a mediocre guitar player. it`s just, when he left they were able to try something different and replace some of his work, that axl didn`t think was right for certain songs. as the case may be, they pushed some of the material to another level. as jarmo mentioned: without disrespecting robin.

however, he did not just claim, that robin`s departure was a good thing "to keep the public face that it isn't really a big deal". there is a lot of truth to that. compare the solos in IRS and twat from `99 to the leaks featuring buckethead. they really are on another level if you ask me.

bucketheads departure in 2004 is a different matter. on the one hand, they were probably really able to push the recording process a step further (buckethead`s tics....), but on the other hand it`s always been quite obvious, that axl wants him back. axl mentioned in his statement, that gnr "remains open for discussions", something he wouldn`t have done to many people, after they let him down. in addition to that, del james wrote in his column in 2006, that they tried everything to get buckethead back prior to the hammerstein shows.

The truth is, it was almost done in 2006, but then it was actually finished in early 2007.

As evident by the interviews Axl gave in 2006, he wanted to put it out before that year ended. Then the next goal was to put it out in March 2007, but due to delays and scheduling conflicts, the album couldn't be finished in time.


I personally feel that putting out some kind of update "just" saying the album is done, would make a lot of people happy but you have to remember that a lot of people are not waiting for that update, they want the release date. It's basically a no win situation until there's a new release date to announce.


Besides, most fans here know that the album is done.




/jarmo

I agree with the whole update theory that you said,
but at the same time, I think Axl should officially say something to communicate with fans,
where
A. He wont piss any of them off if it turns out not be true.
B. If he doesnt say anything, then People start to question whether or not he is still focused/intent on putting out the album this year

I mean, he doesnt have to give us another "tentative' release date,
but just a simple letter briefly outlining the current position of where he is at, and a thankyou to the fans , and mabye a hint or something,
Some false hope is better then no hope :0

I don't think the whiny whiners will be happy until the album is in their hands.

If they band releases a release date, they'll say "oh, those have been broken before", forgetting that the last one was tenative and before that it was nothing but rumor.
And then if then do announce a date and people do believe it they'll say "where's the setlist...." or "where's the album cover...." I want those now. And if they announce those,
"I want a single...I want it for free".

It seems like people would rather be angry then get resolved (which sounds silly considering no one here knows the band personally).

But alas, I'd love to hear something from the band. I really enjoyed seeing Axl in that picture in the liner notes from 'Angel Down'. I mean people practically flipped their lids when they saw Frank in that GNR Jacket from the band's MySpace.

I'm firmly convinced the majority of Gnr fans are idiots.  :-\ I hope Axl runs off 3/4ths of the fanbase. Just start the fuck over.  :P

Well, it's mainly the GnR fans who are too much on teh internetz who overreact to everything and overanalyze like they are Freud to every fart of the band. But that doesn't only go for the fans of the "old GnR" btw, the fans of the "new GnR" do the same thing.

I personally don't care who is in the band, as long as Axl is singing so I don't have that problem  ;D

I am not discriminating between old and new fans....just sayin. Every band has knucklehead fans. But, the lot that frequents Gnrland seem fairly out of touch with reality. :hihi:

I agree  :beer:

But you should check out the fans of Deep Purple for instance (on forums).. they take the crown when it comes to that,  with the 6-7 formations (Marks they call them) it had. GnR fans look sane and rational compared to them, lol!

You raise some interesting discussion points, Naupis.  However, after going back and re-reading the Kurt Loder interview to which you refer, I strongly disagree with your interpretation that Axl regarded Robin as a ?mediocre guitarist?.  My understanding is that Axl was referring to Robin?s fondness for playing in a particular style rather than his technical prowess.  Axl has said that he wants GNR?s music to draw on elements from a wide sphere of musical styles and I think that he was reflecting this when he mentioned his wish to push the guitar parts ? not doubting Robin?s ability.  I believe that is why he has the three guitarists he now has in GNR, precisely because it allows each to bring their particular talent and speciality to the mix, in order that together they create the kind of distinctive sound that Axl envisaged for the evolution of GNR.

If I were to use an analogy it would be to compare musicians with tattooists.  I?m getting some more ink done and have a particular style in mind, so I?m going to an artist that specialises in the type of work I want.  I know that he?s a fantastic artist and in all likelihood could produce excellent work in other styles but I also appreciate that he prefers to work a certain way and, out of respect for his artistry and as a fellow human being, I wouldn?t dream of asking him to work in a way that he wasn?t comfortable with.

The situation with Slash I believe to be different.  It?s my opinion that the frustration Axl felt regarding Slash in those post-Illusion days largely came down to attitude, outlook and the future development of GNR.  I don?t believe that Slash is ?lazy? in the wider sense of the word because he seems to be pretty busy most of the time, but I do think that he obtains his motivation from very different sources than Axl and that this manifested itself in his approach to the recording of the next GNR album.

madagas, it's far from the majority of fans. if you think the millions that saw gnr in 06 and 07 are in the fan forums, you're out of touch with reality.


you can be a workaholic and yet lazy in learning new things.

my mum said I was an excellent cook when I made dinner.
In fact it was horrid according to my brother. I'd say at least it was experimental.

if robin was mediocre he wouldn't be in the band now, would he?


I don't think half of them will be happy then as they are ovbiously whining happy.


no one? I wouldn't be so sure.  not that to know someone personally is to understand them.

you might have sai otherwise if you had ever listened to karaoke versions. most pop/rock songs don't sound too good without vocals.
the instrumental versions tell me that the new gnr songs are on another level.

Tank.....you're right. It is mainly these forums where the knuckleheads come to sound off. Good point. : ok:

I predict twice as much complaining once the album is released.

I think the issue is not whether or not Slash is lazy in the absolute sense, but lazy or indifferent when it comes to working on certain material, i.e. ballads, and in making an effort to grow and evolve musically.

As far as taking recordings to the next level, I always thought that was more about someone's style being the best fit for a particular song or not.

Ali

IMO, it is lazy. He develop one idea of solo or riff but rather move to the next one than rework on it.

Its more like not wanting to reach the edge. 

And about Robin's departure in '99, Axl not only felt lost without him but also had to call one of his favorite guitar players of all time, Brian May, to record a couple of solos so he wouldn't feel bad to erase Robin's awesome work (wasn't exactly his quote, but it was pretty much what he said).

Axl wouldn't have taken Robin back if he didn't like him as a person and guitar player.

still Axl decided to officially comment on his departed lead guitarists in a way where you can read bad things in it....he often has shown this "revenge"-attitude.

and the Slash "lazy" argument"....come on, Axl didnt sung with the band only once after the 7/17/93 show at rehearsals and rarely showed up anyway when the band had practised hours a day. it surely would piss about every band members in any band if your singer isnt doing his job - which in the first place always would be singing.

I don't know if I would call it revenge.  I would call it anger, hurt, disappointment and lashing out publicly in a way to vent those emotions.  Tom Zutuat said that Axl feels the record should represent the energy of the people creating it, hence the desire to re-record parts, guitar or drum or otherwise.  And if Axl's feelings toward Robin were so negative for touring with NIN, then Robin wouldn't be around today.

Ali

Isn't it flat obvious that axl was trying to be positive about robins departure in there? Just like in the rir cancellation letter.
Sweet are the uses of adversity.


Yea the emotional literacy of the knuckleheads seems severely poor.

Listen to Slash's Snakepit's album, it's 5 o'clock somewhere (which on it had Slash's material for the new GnR album that Axl refused unless it was worked on heavily...) and what you hear is a half-assed attempt to sound like AfD.... with mediocre songwriting.

The guitar parts the way they were played sounded uninspired and the solos were just random cliche licks, with a few exceptions.

I would say Slash was lazy around that period.

no it didn't.. it was full of conspiracy theories and speculation and most of it had no basis at all.  just a slash fan looking for an excuse to talk about slash in a thread that has jack shit to do with him.

hui hui.......sure!! nice try to post your opinion on songs you've NEVER heard the possible devolpment on....and yeah: Robin comes, Robin goes (*Finck blinded* :hihi:).... hups, SCOM intro...hard to play this SLASH riff live, huh? *many poofs*

anyway did you ever read my last posts in this? i guess no......but again i still say that the most important part in a band as a singer is TO SING!!!
sorry, Axl board.....no way to blame it mostly on Slash!!! yeah, time to move on, bla bla....

ever considered Steph for this (GREETINGS, BETA!!!)!!??????

can you argue on any "speculation" or is this a little too hard to reply??  *all speculation* *Slash who??*     <--- THE main riff writer for your hifi   :peace:

Another sign is that they have a new official guns n roses online store... with the same shit....

I could, but Jarmo already pointed it out.    The reason the person we have no reason to be talking about left the band.   Nothing to do Chinese Democracy.

It is the opinion of AXL, he told it himself in a radio interview, loose quote "5 o'clock somewhere was the next GnR album and I wasn't gonna have it".... Slash himself also spoke about the fact that for the 5 0'clock album, he used material rejected by Axl.

On top of that, you talk about possible development that I never heard in those songs...that was the problem, Slash was too lazy to develop them more, change them around like Axl wanted... so he released them half-assed in a mediocre solo album. Hence, Slash was lazy argument holds water ;)

And finally, Finck plays the intro to SCOM identical to the AfD version, even the tone and all the same. Never liked that corny riff BTW, boring.

nah, i am talking about an album which could have been a good one IF Axl would have sung on there or to work with the band more, an album Axl wanted to have parts "back" when he heard it was gonna be released without his voice on.   : ok:  just cant understand the Slash-"lazy"-argument and blame he is getting here when he actually worked on songs and wrote riffs but Axl rarely came and never sung at rehearsals. the job of a singer is singing in the first place! so if the word "lazy" would have to be dedicated to a person to that band period it must be Axl!
and SCOM intro Finck fucked up often   :nervous:

Of course you don't get it. You didn't even get the fact that this thread has nothing to do with Slash.

Even that "singer" in Slash's current band rejected a bunch of songs they had written before their first album came out because he couldn't see himself singing on them. History repeats.

If you don't hear something that motivates you, why sing on the songs?

You can spend every hour of the day recording and yet be considered somewhat lazy. Just because you're taking the easy route, you just refuse to leave your comfort zone and keep doing the same stuff over and over.



So, if you still don't get it, you're very welcome to discuss this in the Dead Horse section.  : ok:




/jarmo

As far as guitar playing, I'm just hoping bucket's playing still remains-at one point when Robin left Axl said he was unsure whether or not his parts would remain on the re-recorded version of appetite, having even said his departure was a good thing, which I never understood-I like Robin's playing

mr. admin...you did reply on this lazy-talking a couple of times yourself. then move the ~3 pages with the non-cd talking in here to dead horse please, its still seems to be an interesting subject. some people love to move the laziness-card to Slash but it has been in Axl's hands those years.
and the scott comparing is "lazy" from you because he refused to sing on them as they were too much gnr sounding in the 1st place, those were the izzy songs and thats totally different from Axl's refusing to sing on them. he refused to sing in generell.

back to topic, i hope "axl is still getting ready to put out cd"  : ok:

You didn't prove anything I said to be wrong.

Instead you keep going around in circles. Here's a thought for you to take over to Dead Horse, "write more songs". That's what Rick Rubin once told a certain band.  : ok:



You obviously have a hard time realizing that many singers, not just Axl, doesn't seem to sing until something in the music catches their attention. I guess it goes back to having integrity. You just don't sing for the sake of singing. You sing because you have something to say, paint a picture with words or express an emotion etc.


I don't know how you react to music, maybe it's just something you listen to in the background without paying attention, but for me, when I hear something that catches my attention and I like, I just wanna hear it again.


For you making music seems to be similar to a "regular" job. You have to sing, it's your job.

I think that if that was the case for GN'R, there'd been a bunch of albums out just to cash in. Albums are just released as quickly as possible as an excuse to go out on tour, which is where you make money.

Not everybody plays that game....




I expect your next reply in this thread to be on topic.  : ok:



/jarmo

Get over it. Your like the girl who gets broken up with because things weren't working out and blames that guy for ruining their life. Instead of the fond memories that you had together and moving on, you hold onto the grudge until it poisons every thought about that person.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing the cover art for the album. Baz said that Axl was finishing up liner notes, so I assume that means the album cover is on lockdown. There was some really cool art on the 02/06/07 tours so it'll be interesting to see in what direction they go. A more art oriented one like AFD and UYI? Or maybe it'll be a picture.

Time will tell.

well, if some people like to re-write the gnr history in a weird way you gotta get replies. and nobody could prove my points -which were a reaction of a subject others than me came up in this thread- wrong aswell. and i'm very sorry, but IMO a singer has to sing at points, muse there or not  :hihi:

the album cover shown in Hong Kong'02 never got online as a pic taken by a fan or so?

Nobody proved you wrong? Really? I guess it happens when you ignore points being made by others....


Just like the rest of the finger pointers, there's a lot of IFs but no BUTs in your posts.

It's always nice to point out all the should've, could've and would've scenarios when you don't have to take into account anything that would explain the situation.

If anybody's trying to rewrite history it's you with your simplified view of looking at the whole situation. At least I acknowledge the fact that there's probably a reason, or reasons, for why it happened. With you, it's just "should've done this and that".



So, I suggest you keep your off topic posts to a minimum from now on.

I'm not asking you nicely again.  :)





/jarmo

This board has become boring man. :rant:

Everytime I come here now it seems that every thread turns into a neverending bitch/slugfest.

Sorry jarmo but, it's fucking pathetic either way you cut the cake. :-[

lots of ignoring and simplifying in your posts aswell :D

I guess you see what you want to see.  ::)


Regarding your "on topic" question: No.



/jarmo

I agree with you Cyllan - points well made.  Tattoo analogy is a good one - rather than comparing with other bands - its interesting to look at it from the perspective of another form of art. 

That's assuming that Axl was still going with the bike and graffiti thing. There was a rumor that Neville Garrick was hired to do the cover art, so maybe it's changed since '02.

The way the band had been functioning during UYI, Axl wrote his songs on the piano and gave the other guys free reign to write their songs.  He would listen to what they wrote, maybe make suggestions, then do the vocals when they were satisfied with the tracks

Slash isn't lazy in the sense that he doesn't write and record a lot of the songs.  I wouldn't use the word lazy to describe him, but given the quality of his guitar work through four albums in his post Guns days it sure seems like he doesn't have the desire to push himself to the peak of his abilities

whatever, lets finish off the off topic argument with axl's slash quote.

According to Rose, part of the delay in building the new model of Guns N` Roses has been ''educating myself'' about the technology that's come to define rock in the nineties: ''It's like from scratch, learning how to work with something and not wanting it just to be something you did on a computer.''
At least one of his former band mates didn't really want any part of that process -
''Slash told me, 'I don't want to work that hard,' '' Rose recalls.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=30

 :-*

likewise, I bet axl has studied the newest ways of promotion like dl, games and so on as well.

i think the suggestion that slash was less player after he left GnR is just plane wrong. Uneducated even.

if you listen to some of the solos on the second snake pit album, (which i think is really good, just a shame he didn't have a singer with more charcter in the voice), for instance "serial killer" and "lifes sweet drug" and can say that slash wasn't trying anymore or went backwards as a guitar player is just completely deluded.

i often wonder if the problem was with slash, or just slash being succesful? when he was in snakepit playing clubs and trying to do his thing no one bashed him quite so bad........

if anything slash has become a technically better guitarist (as all guitarists do e.g the guys in iron maiden are much better now than they were in their 80's hey day) since he left GnR, thats just down to time, proactice and experience with different styles/ musicians.


this is my UNBIASED opinion. I like slash and the new crop of GnR guitar players, esp richard, he's fucking awesome!